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R
here are some thoughts on chapter seven of genesis...
it is interesting that God first commands noah to take all of the specified animals with him in the ark...and then brings all of those animals to noah... i think this is a good illustration of how God showed his grace by following up the law with the gospel...in the law God makes many demands...in the gospel God fulfills each of his demands himself!
many people assume that since God tells noah to bring seven pairs of clean animals and birds and two each of the unclean animals...then he must have known the difference between clean and unclean animals that is not actually explained until later in the torah... however given what i just pointed out about God himself carrying out his own instructions regarding the animals...this is not actually necessary... it is possible that here noah could have became aware for the first time which animals were clean and which were unclean simply by observing how many of each kind God provided for the ark...
people disagree on how many clean animals noah actually brought...the disagreement is if God commanded him to bring seven or seven pairs... my understanding is that noah brought seven pairs or fourteen in all...because in genesis 6 God commands noah to bring the animals by twos...meaning no animal should be without a mate...and because genesis 7:9 says the animals all entered the ark by twos...and because in the hebrew of genesis 7:2-3 God literally says to bring 'seven seven' of each clean animal...a 'double seven' or fourteen...seven breeding pairs...
it isn't totally clear why God wanted seven pairs of clean animals and birds to be brought...but two good guesses would be that the clean animals were for sacrifice and if there was only one pair of each then this would have meant extinction...and also they were going to be food for the people after the flood and slaughtering any animal for food would have likewise meant extinction if there was only one pair of each...
also i cannot rule out that there was some kind of biological basis for God's command...i am not a geneticist but it is not hard to reason that some types of animals might require a larger breeding population in order to be healthy...
it is worthwhile to notice that it was God who closed the door to the ark...he was the one to determine the deadline for entering the ark and his deadline could not be overruled... similarly we know that the time of judgment for the world and for each individual is also determined by God and cannot be avoided...
in the recent 'noah' movie russell crowe's noah character was portrayed for much of the film as a genocidal misanthrope...but personally i imagine that noah was a very sensitive and loving person with a lot of grace in his heart...he -had- to be in order to endure decades of wickedness while still having the heart to go out and preach to the people as the bible says he did... i can even imagine noah crying out to the people and begging them to hurry and come into the ark as the door was closing...
so the flood began...the world was covered with water...and only noah and his family and the animals in the ark were left of all the creatures God had planned to destroy... the flood is usually understood as a picture of judgment but it is also a lesson in grace...God offered a way of salvation and everyone who entered in was saved! there was only one ark and likewise there is only one savior...jesus christ!
it is interesting that God first commands noah to take all of the specified animals with him in the ark...and then brings all of those animals to noah... i think this is a good illustration of how God showed his grace by following up the law with the gospel...in the law God makes many demands...in the gospel God fulfills each of his demands himself!
many people assume that since God tells noah to bring seven pairs of clean animals and birds and two each of the unclean animals...then he must have known the difference between clean and unclean animals that is not actually explained until later in the torah... however given what i just pointed out about God himself carrying out his own instructions regarding the animals...this is not actually necessary... it is possible that here noah could have became aware for the first time which animals were clean and which were unclean simply by observing how many of each kind God provided for the ark...
people disagree on how many clean animals noah actually brought...the disagreement is if God commanded him to bring seven or seven pairs... my understanding is that noah brought seven pairs or fourteen in all...because in genesis 6 God commands noah to bring the animals by twos...meaning no animal should be without a mate...and because genesis 7:9 says the animals all entered the ark by twos...and because in the hebrew of genesis 7:2-3 God literally says to bring 'seven seven' of each clean animal...a 'double seven' or fourteen...seven breeding pairs...
it isn't totally clear why God wanted seven pairs of clean animals and birds to be brought...but two good guesses would be that the clean animals were for sacrifice and if there was only one pair of each then this would have meant extinction...and also they were going to be food for the people after the flood and slaughtering any animal for food would have likewise meant extinction if there was only one pair of each...
also i cannot rule out that there was some kind of biological basis for God's command...i am not a geneticist but it is not hard to reason that some types of animals might require a larger breeding population in order to be healthy...
it is worthwhile to notice that it was God who closed the door to the ark...he was the one to determine the deadline for entering the ark and his deadline could not be overruled... similarly we know that the time of judgment for the world and for each individual is also determined by God and cannot be avoided...
in the recent 'noah' movie russell crowe's noah character was portrayed for much of the film as a genocidal misanthrope...but personally i imagine that noah was a very sensitive and loving person with a lot of grace in his heart...he -had- to be in order to endure decades of wickedness while still having the heart to go out and preach to the people as the bible says he did... i can even imagine noah crying out to the people and begging them to hurry and come into the ark as the door was closing...
so the flood began...the world was covered with water...and only noah and his family and the animals in the ark were left of all the creatures God had planned to destroy... the flood is usually understood as a picture of judgment but it is also a lesson in grace...God offered a way of salvation and everyone who entered in was saved! there was only one ark and likewise there is only one savior...jesus christ!
R
Genesis 8
But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the cattle that were with him in the ark; and God caused a wind to pass over the earth, and the water subsided. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Also the fountains of the deep and the [SUP][a][/SUP]floodgates of the sky were closed, and the rain from the sky was restrained; [SUP]3 [/SUP]and the water receded steadily from the earth, and at the end of one hundred and fifty days the water decreased. [SUP]4 [/SUP]In the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat. [SUP]5 [/SUP]The water decreased steadily until the tenth month; in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, the tops of the mountains became visible. [SUP]
6 [/SUP]Then it came about at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made; [SUP]7 [/SUP]and he sent out a raven, and it [SUP][/SUP]flew here and there until the water was dried up [SUP][c][/SUP]from the earth. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Then he sent out a dove from him, to see if the water was abated from the face of the land; [SUP]9 [/SUP]but the dove found no resting place for the sole of her foot, so she returned to him into the ark, for the water was on the [SUP][d][/SUP]surface of all the earth. Then he put out his hand and took her, and brought her into the ark to himself. [SUP]10 [/SUP]So he waited yet another seven days; and again he sent out the dove from the ark. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The dove came to him toward [SUP][e][/SUP]evening, and behold, in her [SUP][f][/SUP]beak was a freshly picked olive leaf. So Noah knew that the water was abated from the earth. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Then he waited yet another seven days, and sent out the dove; but she did not return to him again.[SUP]
13 [/SUP]Now it came about in the six hundred and first year, in the first month, on the first of the month, the water was dried up [SUP][g][/SUP]from the earth. Then Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and behold, the [SUP][h][/SUP]surface of the ground was dried up. [SUP]14 [/SUP]In the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth was dry. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Then God spoke to Noah, saying, [SUP]16 [/SUP]“Go out of the ark, you and your wife and your sons and your sons’ wives with you. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Bring out with you every living thing of all flesh that is with you, birds and animals and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, that they may [SUP][/SUP]breed abundantly on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply on the earth.” [SUP]18 [/SUP]So Noah went out, and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives with him. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every beast, every creeping thing, and every bird, everything that moves on the earth, went out [SUP][j][/SUP]by their families from the ark.[SUP]
20 [/SUP]Then Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar. [SUP]21 [/SUP]The Lord smelled the soothing aroma; and the Lord said [SUP][k][/SUP]to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the [SUP][l][/SUP]intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again [SUP][m][/SUP]destroy every living thing, as I have done.[SUP]
22 [/SUP]“While the earth remains,
Seedtime and harvest,
And cold and heat,
And summer and winter,
And day and night
Shall not cease.”
Footnotes:
a. Genesis 8:2 Or windows of the heavens
b. Genesis 8:7 Lit went out, going and returning
c. Genesis 8:7 Lit from upon
d. Genesis 8:9 Lit face
e. Genesis 8:11 Lit the time of evening
f. Genesis 8:11 Lit mouth
g. Genesis 8:13 Lit from upon
h. Genesis 8:13 Lit face
i. Genesis 8:17 Or swarm
j. Genesis 8:19 Or according to their kind
k. Genesis 8:21 Lit to His heart
l. Genesis 8:21 Or inclination
m. Genesis 8:21 Lit smite
But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the cattle that were with him in the ark; and God caused a wind to pass over the earth, and the water subsided. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Also the fountains of the deep and the [SUP][a][/SUP]floodgates of the sky were closed, and the rain from the sky was restrained; [SUP]3 [/SUP]and the water receded steadily from the earth, and at the end of one hundred and fifty days the water decreased. [SUP]4 [/SUP]In the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat. [SUP]5 [/SUP]The water decreased steadily until the tenth month; in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, the tops of the mountains became visible. [SUP]
6 [/SUP]Then it came about at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made; [SUP]7 [/SUP]and he sent out a raven, and it [SUP][/SUP]flew here and there until the water was dried up [SUP][c][/SUP]from the earth. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Then he sent out a dove from him, to see if the water was abated from the face of the land; [SUP]9 [/SUP]but the dove found no resting place for the sole of her foot, so she returned to him into the ark, for the water was on the [SUP][d][/SUP]surface of all the earth. Then he put out his hand and took her, and brought her into the ark to himself. [SUP]10 [/SUP]So he waited yet another seven days; and again he sent out the dove from the ark. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The dove came to him toward [SUP][e][/SUP]evening, and behold, in her [SUP][f][/SUP]beak was a freshly picked olive leaf. So Noah knew that the water was abated from the earth. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Then he waited yet another seven days, and sent out the dove; but she did not return to him again.[SUP]
13 [/SUP]Now it came about in the six hundred and first year, in the first month, on the first of the month, the water was dried up [SUP][g][/SUP]from the earth. Then Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and behold, the [SUP][h][/SUP]surface of the ground was dried up. [SUP]14 [/SUP]In the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth was dry. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Then God spoke to Noah, saying, [SUP]16 [/SUP]“Go out of the ark, you and your wife and your sons and your sons’ wives with you. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Bring out with you every living thing of all flesh that is with you, birds and animals and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, that they may [SUP][/SUP]breed abundantly on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply on the earth.” [SUP]18 [/SUP]So Noah went out, and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives with him. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every beast, every creeping thing, and every bird, everything that moves on the earth, went out [SUP][j][/SUP]by their families from the ark.[SUP]
20 [/SUP]Then Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar. [SUP]21 [/SUP]The Lord smelled the soothing aroma; and the Lord said [SUP][k][/SUP]to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the [SUP][l][/SUP]intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again [SUP][m][/SUP]destroy every living thing, as I have done.[SUP]
22 [/SUP]“While the earth remains,
Seedtime and harvest,
And cold and heat,
And summer and winter,
And day and night
Shall not cease.”
Footnotes:
a. Genesis 8:2 Or windows of the heavens
b. Genesis 8:7 Lit went out, going and returning
c. Genesis 8:7 Lit from upon
d. Genesis 8:9 Lit face
e. Genesis 8:11 Lit the time of evening
f. Genesis 8:11 Lit mouth
g. Genesis 8:13 Lit from upon
h. Genesis 8:13 Lit face
i. Genesis 8:17 Or swarm
j. Genesis 8:19 Or according to their kind
k. Genesis 8:21 Lit to His heart
l. Genesis 8:21 Or inclination
m. Genesis 8:21 Lit smite
Last edited:
R
ok if we revive this thread...it would be nice if everyone participating went back and at least skimmed over what was discussed so far...and then we continue with genesis 8 where the thread left off a long time ago... i think it would be better if we did not go back and bring up anything from genesis 1-7 unless there is a very pressing issue...if that happens too much then the sequence of the thread will become confusing and make it harder for people to participate...
and a big thing that i want to insist is that i am -not- going to be the 'torah study teacher'... i was fine with gently 'moderating' the discussion...mostly by occasionally saying 'time for the next chapter...but one thing that had been frustrating was that people seemed to be waiting until i posted my comments for each chapter before weighing in and participating themselves...see for example how i posted the text of genesis 8 and then total silence...
i hereby disavow any supposed right to share first! and i invite anyone to get caught up and jump right in with their own thoughts that are going to be just as edifying as mine!
and a big thing that i want to insist is that i am -not- going to be the 'torah study teacher'... i was fine with gently 'moderating' the discussion...mostly by occasionally saying 'time for the next chapter...but one thing that had been frustrating was that people seemed to be waiting until i posted my comments for each chapter before weighing in and participating themselves...see for example how i posted the text of genesis 8 and then total silence...
i hereby disavow any supposed right to share first! and i invite anyone to get caught up and jump right in with their own thoughts that are going to be just as edifying as mine!
R
thoughts on genesis 8...
it says that God 'remembered' noah and the animals on the ark...but we should not understand this to be saying that God had 'forgotten' about them prior to this... when the bible says that God 'remembers' someone it means that he is now making his -constant- remembrance and concern for them evident...in legal terms he has brought their case back into his courtroom for a ruling in their favor...
when the flood ended noah sent out a raven and a dove... i have heard it explained that a dove would not put her feet on mud...which is why the passage says she 'found no resting place for the sole of her foot'...indicating to noah that the ground was still waterlogged...
i have thought about why the dove brought noah an olive branch at all...i don't think the dove would have just known the significance that the olive branch would have had to noah...and i don't think doves are quite intelligent enough that noah would have been able to command her to bring back a branch if she found any trees... one possibility i can think of is that maybe she had been building a nest...and the olive branch was to be part of her nest...returning to the ark probably to be fed she might have carried a bit of nesting material with her... the fact that she did not come back at all seven days later suggests that she had made a home...
the covering that noah removed from the ark has puzzled bible interpreters for a long time...but maybe it had something to do with another feature of the ark that has also puzzled bible interpreters...the 'window' that noah had made in the ark... maybe there were some kind of 'shutters' that covered the window...which noah now removed...
noah and his family and the animals left the ark on the twenty-seventh day of the second month...since the flood had begun on the seventeenth day of the second month in the previous year...that means noah and his family and the animals were in the ark for one hebrew year plus ten days... while it is not certain how that year corresponded to our modern calendar year...we can safely say that they were on the ark for approximately one year...
i think it is worth noting that noah did not leave the ark on his own...he waited for God's instructions...just as he had first entered the ark at God's command... this shows that noah has left this entire enterprise to God's care...and he waited on God's timing... how many times in our life have we presumptuously rushed into something instead of waiting on God? noah is a good example to us here...
quickly noah built an altar and offered sacrifices from each kind of clean animal and clean bird... these burnt offerings expressed thanks to God for his protection during the decades of preparation and the year on the ark...they were also fitting for a new beginning in what noah must have hoped would be a better world...
it goes without saying that the bible's mention of God smelling the aroma of the burnt offerings is an anthropomorphism...a way of explaining God's characteristics and responses in human terms that we are familiar with... in this case the point is that God took note of the sacrifices and he was pleased by them...
God then promised that he would never again destroy the earth in this way...in spite of the fact that the human heart is sinful and that God must have known that the world would once again descend into sin... as evidence i can point out that God has now tolerated -our- world for far longer than he tolerated the wickedness of the pre flood world...his patience and mercy are so great...
the chapter ends with a short stanza of poetry...promising that the natural cycles of day and night and the seasons and weather and growth will continue for as long as the earth itself continues... we need not fear the destruction of the earth by disaster...whether from asteroids or solar flares or whatever... however at the same time we should not assume that -our modern way of life- is similarly blessed with God's protection...things like electronic telecommunications and power grids and municipal water and sanitation are not covered in God's promise...
it says that God 'remembered' noah and the animals on the ark...but we should not understand this to be saying that God had 'forgotten' about them prior to this... when the bible says that God 'remembers' someone it means that he is now making his -constant- remembrance and concern for them evident...in legal terms he has brought their case back into his courtroom for a ruling in their favor...
when the flood ended noah sent out a raven and a dove... i have heard it explained that a dove would not put her feet on mud...which is why the passage says she 'found no resting place for the sole of her foot'...indicating to noah that the ground was still waterlogged...
i have thought about why the dove brought noah an olive branch at all...i don't think the dove would have just known the significance that the olive branch would have had to noah...and i don't think doves are quite intelligent enough that noah would have been able to command her to bring back a branch if she found any trees... one possibility i can think of is that maybe she had been building a nest...and the olive branch was to be part of her nest...returning to the ark probably to be fed she might have carried a bit of nesting material with her... the fact that she did not come back at all seven days later suggests that she had made a home...
the covering that noah removed from the ark has puzzled bible interpreters for a long time...but maybe it had something to do with another feature of the ark that has also puzzled bible interpreters...the 'window' that noah had made in the ark... maybe there were some kind of 'shutters' that covered the window...which noah now removed...
noah and his family and the animals left the ark on the twenty-seventh day of the second month...since the flood had begun on the seventeenth day of the second month in the previous year...that means noah and his family and the animals were in the ark for one hebrew year plus ten days... while it is not certain how that year corresponded to our modern calendar year...we can safely say that they were on the ark for approximately one year...
i think it is worth noting that noah did not leave the ark on his own...he waited for God's instructions...just as he had first entered the ark at God's command... this shows that noah has left this entire enterprise to God's care...and he waited on God's timing... how many times in our life have we presumptuously rushed into something instead of waiting on God? noah is a good example to us here...
quickly noah built an altar and offered sacrifices from each kind of clean animal and clean bird... these burnt offerings expressed thanks to God for his protection during the decades of preparation and the year on the ark...they were also fitting for a new beginning in what noah must have hoped would be a better world...
it goes without saying that the bible's mention of God smelling the aroma of the burnt offerings is an anthropomorphism...a way of explaining God's characteristics and responses in human terms that we are familiar with... in this case the point is that God took note of the sacrifices and he was pleased by them...
God then promised that he would never again destroy the earth in this way...in spite of the fact that the human heart is sinful and that God must have known that the world would once again descend into sin... as evidence i can point out that God has now tolerated -our- world for far longer than he tolerated the wickedness of the pre flood world...his patience and mercy are so great...
the chapter ends with a short stanza of poetry...promising that the natural cycles of day and night and the seasons and weather and growth will continue for as long as the earth itself continues... we need not fear the destruction of the earth by disaster...whether from asteroids or solar flares or whatever... however at the same time we should not assume that -our modern way of life- is similarly blessed with God's protection...things like electronic telecommunications and power grids and municipal water and sanitation are not covered in God's promise...
1
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
R
seeing no other discussion i was ready just now to post genesis 9 and move on...but rereading this passage from luke makes me think i am not done with genesis 8 yet...i don't think i have discovered all of the gospel in this chapter yet...
stand by...and anyone else feel free to add something! i didn't make this thread just to write my own commentary everyone!
stand by...and anyone else feel free to add something! i didn't make this thread just to write my own commentary everyone!
:smoke: we are reading all my brethrens sisters brothers
so continue
as it is written
:read:
Deuteronomio: 2. 20. (That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;
21. A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead:
:ty:
godbless us all always
so continue
as it is written
:read:
Deuteronomio: 2. 20. (That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;
21. A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead:
:ty:
godbless us all always
I have red one of the books not included in the Bible (can't remember which one) and in there the writer of the book said that God brought the animals to Noah and told him to only take the animals that kneel before him... my guess was that the dinosaurs did not kneel before Noah (if indeed this is the truth 
)
)
R
I have red one of the books not included in the Bible (can't remember which one) and in there the writer of the book said that God brought the animals to Noah and told him to only take the animals that kneel before him... my guess was that the dinosaurs did not kneel before Noah (if indeed this is the truth )
)