the truth in the words of paul...

[followjesus]

so many times paul writes these types of things that grace never mentions or teaches in the modern church, these principles are just another testimony of Jesus teachings, paul also taught how to live in humility, for the sake of others, taught us to share our possessions with the poor, paul also taught as did all the other apostles, how to live the teachings of Jesus Christ, the spiritual principles of Gods Kingdom. its not as if paul just said were saved by grace, done and said. that's just what the world teaches that paul actually taught. paul makes many, mannny references to the importance of teaching repentance and obedience to the sound doctrines of the gospel. he teaches the same self sacrificing behavior that Jesus taught, submission to others, care for others burdens and needs. truly love one another in action and truth as John puts it. the one commandment " Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength; and Love your neighbor as youself" sums it all up in truth. Jesus said this, paul says it, james...john ect....what is it to Love God and how does it tie together just have to as always read what is actually there rather than search for what we want to see....things like colossians

3:1-15 "Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful"l....continues on....... another example of paul teaching that how we live matters most ?

galatians 5:19-21"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." why does paul repeat this in his letters to the church? again another example of paul and repentence and obedience?

1corinthians 6:9-11Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

again...

galatians 6:7-8"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. " ( notice here what the subject is????ETERNAL LIFE is at stake how does grace somehow nullify these repeated clear messages in Gods word from genesis to revelation nearly every book carries this same message before Jesus, during His ministry and also after. do what is right. if we have the righteousness of Christ, doing what is right shouldn't be a problem anymore. if were new creations does our way of life show it? our security and peace comes through purposely following the teachings of Christ. simply accepting...


these posts are long but very truthful shouldn't really matter who says something. whether we like the person. truth is there for us all to check in the words God purposed for those who believe in him to seek out and know. paul did not in anyway deny the same gospel, right and wrong is still at the center, but now.....we are new creations we died to sin and live for righteousness and by his wounds the dead are brought to life.

many more saying just the same repeated things, paul, the apostle of so called grace alone with "no responsibility to how we live and act in the world" in nearly all of his letters made clear the absolute importance of the believers actions. yes there is grace for our mistakes, no grace does not discount our actions forevermore. from the heart we follow Jesus, that's who a Christian is in Christ. no need to really look any further, Christians are followers of Jesus Christ, His disciples, those who accept his death in exchange for their Life, no longer lived for themselves but for Christ, His will and purposes...yeah. Paul taught that more than once also.....


Jesus is the way. Love Him his way. Honor God He will ever honor you. Have nearly no time lately wont have any further ops for a long while. long I know, if you read it God bless you. all glory Hinor, wisdom, power, and every majesty belongs to God through Jesus Christ.

only a few examples of how paul did not teach a grace apart from obedience, rather, Grace to be obedient...and therefore Live

 

[followjesus]

I just noticed anyone recognize this ?


galatians 6:7-8 "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life." whats the deception?

James 1:22 ".Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. " where is the deception?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11...where is the deception???

how many times are we warned of the deception of our actions not mattering in all this? do not be deceived by doctrines that stress your actions don't matter for your destination. they do. knowing what Jesus did and said isn't enough because when you truly know what He is saying, he is saying you must do these things, do them and remain in me, and I will be with you full of mercy and grace. paul teaches obedience to Christ and the "spirit of His teachings" humility, submission, compassion for the struggles and issues of others above yourself, honesty, faithfulness, all the same principles taught by Jesus are taught by all the scriptures in the n.t. johns books, james, peter, pauls....all these great true men of God teach the same true things of God. the bible isn't a storybook or a theoretical novel. Its Gods true and everlasting word, it cannot and never will fail or faulter, the [principles taught in Gods word are Life, the things we are warned are death....are death. eternally. the wages of sin is death, we were sentenced all of us, grace took that sentence upon Jesus and gave us the instructions to life ebverlasting, and more importantly the holy spirit who is the ability to live a good and right life by following Jesus spiritual teachings.

natural man = an eye for an eye. spiritual man = turn the other cheek.
natural man, if you sin against me I will condemn you. spiritual man if you repent and ask forgiveness I will forgive you completely because of Grace that forgave me all my sins and shortcomings. do not be deceived. Grace gave us forgiveness and restoration, reconciliation to God by the holy spirit......this makes our behavior more important because we live in the presence of Gods spirit, who is one with God..........

 

[God4me]

I just noticed anyone recognize this ?


galatians 6:7-8 "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life." whats the deception?

James 1:22 ".Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. " where is the deception?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11...where is the deception???

how many times are we warned of the deception of our actions not mattering in all this? do not be deceived by doctrines that stress your actions don't matter for your destination. they do. knowing what Jesus did and said isn't enough because when you truly know what He is saying, he is saying you must do these things, do them and remain in me, and I will be with you full of mercy and grace. paul teaches obedience to Christ and the "spirit of His teachings" humility, submission, compassion for the struggles and issues of others above yourself, honesty, faithfulness, all the same principles taught by Jesus are taught by all the scriptures in the n.t. johns books, james, peter, pauls....all these great true men of God teach the same true things of God. the bible isn't a storybook or a theoretical novel. Its Gods true and everlasting word, it cannot and never will fail or faulter, the [principles taught in Gods word are Life, the things we are warned are death....are death. eternally. the wages of sin is death, we were sentenced all of us, grace took that sentence upon Jesus and gave us the instructions to life ebverlasting, and more importantly the holy spirit who is the ability to live a good and right life by following Jesus spiritual teachings.

natural man = an eye for an eye. spiritual man = turn the other cheek.
natural man, if you sin against me I will condemn you. spiritual man if you repent and ask forgiveness I will forgive you completely because of Grace that forgave me all my sins and shortcomings. do not be deceived. Grace gave us forgiveness and restoration, reconciliation to God by the holy spirit......this makes our behavior more important because we live in the presence of Gods spirit, who is one with God..........

It'll be interesting to see what the false grace teachers say.
I know one false grace teacher, JP, says the sowing and reaping in Gal 6: 7--8, only means what money we sow, he rejects sowing to the flesh, & reaping corruption, because it proves him wrong.

 

[followjesus]

It'll be interesting to see what the false grace teachers say.
I know one false grace teacher, JP, says the sowing and reaping in Gal 6: 7--8, only means what money we sow, he rejects sowing to the flesh, & reaping corruption, because it proves him wrong.

yeah mostly I think anymore I get avoided by them. ive heard all the logic already. jp also rejects the sermon on the mount for the church... also rejects any condition placed upon the believer to obey what Jesus clearly says to obey. by omitting all of that along with all the warnings of us giving an account of the things we do in the flesh throughout the new testament, even pauls says he doesn't even judge himself innocent, he also says "

2 cor. 5:9-10 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

and even more Jesus matthew 6:27 " for the son of man is going to come in his fathers glory and all the angels with him, and he will repay each man for what he has done." this a few vwerses after "anyone who wants to be my disciple must lay down himself and pick up his cross and follow me....

and paul? ephesians 5:6 "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient."

its a deception to think our actions don't matter because of grace, its really throughout Gods word, the only real deception is the same as eden " did God really say that? surely it wont Kill you" he deceived eve into thinking her action of doing what God said would kill her, wouldn't. that's the same deception as "repentance isn't necessary" or " our actions aren't what matters to our lives" same deception from the same serpents tongue, just different dressing and twisting of words. the enemy is basic can see his character in the ot clearly, he uses the same methods twist true scriptures to make a lie that deceives man to think sin is not death. that's really the new grace in simplicity, "nothing I can do matters, I don't need to change my actions in Christ, I'm saved no matter what I do, sin cant hurt me or make God displeased with me anymore" basically this is what eve thought...well then....the fruit looks good, sounds good...im eating that fruit. sin looks good, feels good, and with this false teaching, isn't going to hurt my relationship with the HOLY spirit who is with me at all times...ect the sinner who thinks theres no consequences of death for sin, will never have a need to repent, sinners love to sin, that's human nature. self. me. mine. I'm great. get your own. pleasure. more. more and more.....


Like always the fruit is still death to man its the duty of every Christian to put all of their heart into Jesus and His ways. when we fail and we do and will, we repent and we pick right up where we left off. grace doesn't change anything about God, it changes the believer and conforms them to the likeness and nature of Christ. this is accomplished by purposely living the principles of Jesus, don't have to be perfect, just have to be in obedience from the heart, you stumble, you acknowledge, repent and move forward forgetting what is behind just like paul said. misleading to those who don't know the word to teach this new age grace, and say that's what paul taught. paul taught the atonement, and the same priciples of how to live, the same warnings of Gods coming wrath to the disobedient...all these writings to the Christian church. not unbelievers but warnings of how we live to the church of believers warnings of wrath to the believers, stressing of repentance from the acts of sin, to the believers . its really the same message throughout gods word. sin is death. righteousness is life. under law man couldn't, in Christ we are well able........adam ? don't eat the fruit = live. Jesus ? the wise and foolish builders, the parable of the unforgiving debtor, the " return of the King parable of the sheep and goats. summary we will stand and give an account for what we do in the flesh. some will go to eternal life in the kingdom, others to eternal torment not based on confessing the name of Jesus, but on what they did to love their fellow man. did they clothe the naked? feed the hungry? visit the lonely ect....the grace your speaking of is really easily unwraveled if someone is unwilling to omit the truth.

 

[followjesus]

yeah mostly I think anymore I get avoided by them. ive heard all the logic already. jp also rejects the sermon on the mount for the church... also rejects any condition placed upon the believer to obey what Jesus clearly says to obey. by omitting all of that along with all the warnings of us giving an account of the things we do in the flesh throughout the new testament, even pauls says he doesn't even judge himself innocent, he also says "

2 cor. 5:9-10 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

and even more Jesus matthew 6:27 " for the son of man is going to come in his fathers glory and all the angels with him, and he will repay each man for what he has done." this a few vwerses after "anyone who wants to be my disciple must lay down himself and pick up his cross and follow me....

and paul? ephesians 5:6 "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient."

its a deception to think our actions don't matter because of grace, its really throughout Gods word, the only real deception is the same as eden " did God really say that? surely it wont Kill you" he deceived eve into thinking her action of doing what God said would kill her, wouldn't. that's the same deception as "repentance isn't necessary" or " our actions aren't what matters to our lives" same deception from the same serpents tongue, just different dressing and twisting of words. the enemy is basic can see his character in the ot clearly, he uses the same methods twist true scriptures to make a lie that deceives man to think sin is not death. that's really the new grace in simplicity, "nothing I can do matters, I don't need to change my actions in Christ, I'm saved no matter what I do, sin cant hurt me or make God displeased with me anymore" basically this is what eve thought...well then....the fruit looks good, sounds good...im eating that fruit. sin looks good, feels good, and with this false teaching, isn't going to hurt my relationship with the HOLY spirit who is with me at all times...ect the sinner who thinks theres no consequences of death for sin, will never have a need to repent, sinners love to sin, that's human nature. self. me. mine. I'm great. get your own. pleasure. more. more and more.....


Like always the fruit is still death to man its the duty of every Christian to put all of their heart into Jesus and His ways. when we fail and we do and will, we repent and we pick right up where we left off. grace doesn't change anything about God, it changes the believer and conforms them to the likeness and nature of Christ. this is accomplished by purposely living the principles of Jesus, don't have to be perfect, just have to be in obedience from the heart, you stumble, you acknowledge, repent and move forward forgetting what is behind just like paul said. misleading to those who don't know the word to teach this new age grace, and say that's what paul taught. paul taught the atonement, and the same priciples of how to live, the same warnings of Gods coming wrath to the disobedient...all these writings to the Christian church. not unbelievers but warnings of how we live to the church of believers warnings of wrath to the believers, stressing of repentance from the acts of sin, to the believers . its really the same message throughout gods word. sin is death. righteousness is life. under law man couldn't, in Christ we are well able........adam ? don't eat the fruit = live. Jesus ? the wise and foolish builders, the parable of the unforgiving debtor, the " return of the King parable of the sheep and goats. summary we will stand and give an account for what we do in the flesh. some will go to eternal life in the kingdom, others to eternal torment not based on confessing the name of Jesus, but on what they did to love their fellow man. did they clothe the naked? feed the hungry? visit the lonely ect....the grace your speaking of is really easily unwraveled if someone is unwilling to omit the truth.

to clarify clothing the naked, feeding the hungry represents loving other people Gods way, truly in actions. caring for thy fellow man, when we sin were usually hurting another person, in Christ were commanded to help others do good, be a light, make poraise for God because we live such good lives among others....all biblical truth.

 

[JaumeJ]

You are absolutely correct about requiring a certain regimen of actions to be saved, but keep in min, deliberately being disobedient is also an action, and it is ver destructive...... I believe you did cover this quoting what we sow to the flesh etc. God Bless you.......

I just noticed anyone recognize this ?


galatians 6:7-8 "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life." whats the deception?

James 1:22 ".Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. " where is the deception?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11...where is the deception???

how many times are we warned of the deception of our actions not mattering in all this? do not be deceived by doctrines that stress your actions don't matter for your destination. they do. knowing what Jesus did and said isn't enough because when you truly know what He is saying, he is saying you must do these things, do them and remain in me, and I will be with you full of mercy and grace. paul teaches obedience to Christ and the "spirit of His teachings" humility, submission, compassion for the struggles and issues of others above yourself, honesty, faithfulness, all the same principles taught by Jesus are taught by all the scriptures in the n.t. johns books, james, peter, pauls....all these great true men of God teach the same true things of God. the bible isn't a storybook or a theoretical novel. Its Gods true and everlasting word, it cannot and never will fail or faulter, the [principles taught in Gods word are Life, the things we are warned are death....are death. eternally. the wages of sin is death, we were sentenced all of us, grace took that sentence upon Jesus and gave us the instructions to life ebverlasting, and more importantly the holy spirit who is the ability to live a good and right life by following Jesus spiritual teachings.

natural man = an eye for an eye. spiritual man = turn the other cheek.
natural man, if you sin against me I will condemn you. spiritual man if you repent and ask forgiveness I will forgive you completely because of Grace that forgave me all my sins and shortcomings. do not be deceived. Grace gave us forgiveness and restoration, reconciliation to God by the holy spirit......this makes our behavior more important because we live in the presence of Gods spirit, who is one with God..........

 

[followjesus]

You are absolutely correct about requiring a certain regimen of actions to be saved, but keep in min, deliberately being disobedient is also an action, and it is ver destructive...... I believe you did cover this quoting what we sow to the flesh etc. God Bless you.......

God bless you also. it really is just what is written throughout the word. God is very good. so merciful, Loves us so much. but since the beginning He has told us of sin and death. too many see obedience as God frivolously making us jump through hoops or hell throw us in hell.....no. He is warning us not to guzzle all the poison in the world, sin is deadly its destination is eternal fire. Hes saying "sin will kill you, don't eat the poison fruit" instead, remain in the vine and bear the fruit of eternal Life.

 

[p_rehbein]

Enjoyed the OP, and it is clear it came from the heart............thanks

To clarify though, you ARE NOT saying works are NECESSARY for salvation, but that they are a FRUIT of salvation right?

Have to be sure about these things anymore, because sometimes I may not fully understand what a person is saying right off.

 

[followjesus]

Enjoyed the OP, and it is clear it came from the heart............thanks

To clarify though, you ARE NOT saying works are NECESSARY for salvation, but that they are a FRUIT of salvation right?

Have to be sure about these things anymore, because sometimes I may not fully understand what a person is saying right off.

I'm not really saying much just saying paul clearly teaches our behavior when we come to Christ what we give our heart and effort to will determine our eternal destination. in the op " do not be deceived a man reaps what He sows, whoever sows to please the flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction, whoever sows to please the spirit from the spirit will reap eternal life" really kind of the same thing he says in romans 8 about following the flesh is death, following the spirit is life. same thing Jesus says " why do you call me lord and do not do what i say? he who comes to me and hears my word and puts it into practice ...his house will stand. the one who hears and doesn't do, his house will fall and its destruction will be complete" same things throughout.


Grace forgave us all our sins, gave us the holy spirit, a new life, new start, if we continue living as servants of sin.......there is no salvation. no inheritance. we have grace, grace is mistaught terribly. Grace is what makes us new, puts us to death through the crucifixion, raises us to a new life through the resurrection. grace doesn't now excuse a person who accepts Christ, that they may continue in sin, rather He offers freedom FROM sin. freedom from sin is freedom from death. that's the process of removing death this is the equation for salvation from death and hell. to your comment, salvation doesn't come because of anything we can do, it came by grace through Jesus, it came for the purpose of obedience to the gospel.

finally id quote matthew 7:21 ""Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." ( a lesson taught repeatedly by Jesus) just saying the phrase " jesus is lord" is not what guarantees salvation, it is those doing Gods will who should feel secure, the fear and trembling comes first when a person is working it out, the peace and clear conscience or " how we set our hearts to rest in his presence is when were in obedience to His commands and principles." we don't work to gain anything, were forgiven and renewed for the purpose of working in the fields of Harvest and glory to God" grace for obedience is eternal life and it is the will of God

 

[p_rehbein]

I'm not really saying much just saying paul clearly teaches our behavior when we come to Christ what we give our heart and effort to will determine our eternal destination. in the op " do not be deceived a man reaps what He sows, whoever sows to please the flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction, whoever sows to please the spirit from the spirit will reap eternal life" really kind of the same thing he says in romans 8 about following the flesh is death, following the spirit is life. same thing Jesus says " why do you call me lord and do not do what i say? he who comes to me and hears my word and puts it into practice ...his house will stand. the one who hears and doesn't do, his house will fall and its destruction will be complete" same things throughout.


Grace forgave us all our sins, gave us the holy spirit, a new life, new start, if we continue living as servants of sin.......there is no salvation. no inheritance. we have grace, grace is mistaught terribly. Grace is what makes us new, puts us to death through the crucifixion, raises us to a new life through the resurrection. grace doesn't now excuse a person who accepts Christ, that they may continue in sin, rather He offers freedom FROM sin. freedom from sin is freedom from death. that's the process of removing death this is the equation for salvation from death and hell. to your comment, salvation doesn't come because of anything we can do, it came by grace through Jesus, it came for the purpose of obedience to the gospel.

finally id quote matthew 7:21 ""Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." ( a lesson taught repeatedly by Jesus) just saying the phrase " jesus is lord" is not what guarantees salvation, it is those doing Gods will who should feel secure, the fear and trembling comes first when a person is working it out, the peace and clear conscience or " how we set our hearts to rest in his presence is when were in obedience to His commands and principles." we don't work to gain anything, were forgiven and renewed for the purpose of working in the fields of Harvest and glory to God" grace for obedience is eternal life and it is the will of God

Again thought, it is vital to distinguish between the Levitical Laws of the First Covenant, and their role concerning the Nation of Israel, and the New Covenant Law which is the Law of Faith, which is what Jesus established, and Paul and the other Apostles preached upon. There is a huge difference there.

I do agree that some "overdo" the teaching of grace, for they ONLY teach a "Readers Digest Condensed version" of grace as it applies to salvation and the Church today. This is painfully evident when they use the Scripture from Ephesians, Chapter 2, verse 8......because they say:

8) For by grace are ye saved............and they use this to preach "grace only, grace always, nothing but grace, grace is all there is.

Problem is, there is much more to that Scripture. It actually says:

8)For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 .) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 .) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

See, it says "through FAITH." Without faith, there is no salvation by grace. And the one that really, really drives them completely nuts is the completion of the statement/teaching by Paul.......verse 10! The almost NEVER mention this because it is a "thorn in their fleshy theology."

Now, these "works" we are created in Christ Jesus unto are a "fruit" of our salvation, but they do not understand or accept that these "works" are a necessary thing for ALL believers to do. God has a purpose for us, a mission, if you will, that He wants us to accomplish. We do not just get saved, then go sit in the corner and forget that God has a purpose for us.

Saved by grace is great.........but unless we teach/believe the ENTIRE Scripture the Apostle wrote, it is of little value in my opinion, for without faith, grace is not extended unto us. IF WE DO NOT BELIEVE, as Jesus Himself said we must, then grace IS NOT imparted.

Now, NONE of this is contingent on us KEEPING the Levitical Laws of the First Testament......let us be perfectly clear about that.

 

[followjesus]

Again thought, it is vital to distinguish between the Levitical Laws of the First Covenant, and their role concerning the Nation of Israel, and the New Covenant Law which is the Law of Faith, which is what Jesus established, and Paul and the other Apostles preached upon. There is a huge difference there.

I do agree that some "overdo" the teaching of grace, for they ONLY teach a "Readers Digest Condensed version" of grace as it applies to salvation and the Church today. This is painfully evident when they use the Scripture from Ephesians, Chapter 2, verse 8......because they say:

8) For by grace are ye saved............and they use this to preach "grace only, grace always, nothing but grace, grace is all there is.

Problem is, there is much more to that Scripture. It actually says:

8)For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 .) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 .) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

See, it says "through FAITH." Without faith, there is no salvation by grace. And the one that really, really drives them completely nuts is the completion of the statement/teaching by Paul.......verse 10! The almost NEVER mention this because it is a "thorn in their fleshy theology."

Now, these "works" we are created in Christ Jesus unto are a "fruit" of our salvation, but they do not understand or accept that these "works" are a necessary thing for ALL believers to do. God has a purpose for us, a mission, if you will, that He wants us to accomplish. We do not just get saved, then go sit in the corner and forget that God has a purpose for us.

Saved by grace is great.........but unless we teach/believe the ENTIRE Scripture the Apostle wrote, it is of little value in my opinion, for without faith, grace is not extended unto us. IF WE DO NOT BELIEVE, as Jesus Himself said we must, then grace IS NOT imparted.

Now, NONE of this is contingent on us KEEPING the Levitical Laws of the First Testament......let us be perfectly clear about that.

the Levitical laws were added to the mosaic law, the law is one. its purpose was never to save man, but to reveal sin, to show its wickedness and its result which is death. the old law was intended to bring man to the knowledge " I am a sinner, I need Gods salvation, I'm not righteous, He is holy....have mercy on me a sinner" that is the oinly result of trying to condition salvation on the mosaic law. sin is transgression of that law, Jesus took our sin and also our sentence of death under that old law. this is why paul says the law was removed. its not that the law disappeared it remains to convict sinners and reveal their need for Christ. oince we come to Christ, our sin is circumsized from our heart and that removes the law when sin is dead the law is gone.

so the Levitical law was never meant for saving man, but revealing His condemnation and thus His need for Christ and His atonement for us. but this does noit change the fact that we obey the things JESUS taught us, that's our life that's the new covenant. the old was mans death, the new is mans Life in Him. salvation is all based in Jesus, the law only prepared mans hearts for a savior and revealed to us our absolute need for Him

 

[followjesus]

the Levitical laws were added to the mosaic law, the law is one. its purpose was never to save man, but to reveal sin, to show its wickedness and its result which is death. the old law was intended to bring man to the knowledge " I am a sinner, I need Gods salvation, I'm not righteous, He is holy....have mercy on me a sinner" that is the oinly result of trying to condition salvation on the mosaic law. sin is transgression of that law, Jesus took our sin and also our sentence of death under that old law. this is why paul says the law was removed. its not that the law disappeared it remains to convict sinners and reveal their need for Christ. oince we come to Christ, our sin is circumsized from our heart and that removes the law when sin is dead the law is gone.

so the Levitical law was never meant for saving man, but revealing His condemnation and thus His need for Christ and His atonement for us. but this does noit change the fact that we obey the things JESUS taught us, that's our life that's the new covenant. the old was mans death, the new is mans Life in Him. salvation is all based in Jesus, the law only prepared mans hearts for a savior and revealed to us our absolute need for Him

so many of this new extreme grace says things like " remain in the vine bear fruit" well what they always always omit are the rest of those verses that explain that to remain in the vine, is to remain in the teachings of Jesus. its not effortless its all about following the right one, and its so hard fopr me to understand how so many Christians don't get that we follow Jesus. every disciple is a follower of Jesus. Jesus is our LORD and MASTER now. He is our King, though he had all authority, he came as a humble man auffered and died and gained victory over sin for us on our behalf and offers that to us. he is the most beauf=tiful extravagant valuable being beneath God almighty and he took the place of a common sinner such as I. suffered my pains and death. That is a king anyone who knows should easily and jopyfully give all allegiance to. gladly lay down our will to accept and live His way. its not as if He didn't stress that we are to obey His teachings. not as if He didn't warn us of not commiting fully......


each person who looks deep in their heart when they are alone with God, those times are when we can really say I love you with all I am and have lord. if we can say that in good conscience. we have peace and there is no law that remains when it is from the heart we love our fellow man for the purpose oif honoring Jesus, glorifying the gospel, making praise in anothers heart because we reflect His goodness to them by learning and doing what He taught us to actually do. we learn and are conformed to his likeness by purposely obeying Jesus. why? because He died for me, made me new, gave me his spirit, provided me with righteousness and freedom from my past sin. we commit fully to Jesus simply because our glorious king beyond value suffered in every way to make us new and able and free and holy

 

[mpaper345]

Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

 

[followjesus]

Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

ughh okay galatians do you understand that that book is because jewish men came telling Christians they needed to adhere to the mosaic law to be saved? that's what paul is discussing the mosaic law, circumcision. we do not need to go get circumsized and adhere to mosaic law to be saved by Christ. that's what that's saying there. how bout look a little futher tho? that same book makes it really really clear how we actually live matters

galatians 5:16-2116So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[SUP]c[/SUP] you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."


okay so paul makes it clear that if these believers don't live right, they will not inherit the kingdom of God. can you argue that is not what hes saying ? if you accept these clear scriptures, then does your scripture concerning not adhering to mosaic law or being circumsized, does that one out of text verse erase all these about how we live mattering toward salvation? this same design is in almost all of pauls letters. he tells of grace, then makes it very clear that how we live having received His grace is also a factor in salvation. paul did not teach a grace withoutcondition upon how believers live. paul taught obedience also. paul made obedience just as important as knowing you are new creations.

paul repoeats " those who live this way, those who DO these things will not inherit the kingdom of Godd. Jesus also says it isn't those who say lord lord that will be saved, but those who DO the will of God. the entire new testament and old says it lol. faith is when your action is evidence of your belief. its not an inward thought without action. its the "evidence" and "substance" do you want 10 other examples of paul saying this same thing? or 10 of Jesus saying it? do you want to see peter saying it? john? james? all are in agreement with Jesus. how you live, what you do having received grace matters as much as what you believe pertaining to salvation. its really simple stuff. and repeats itself through scripture

 

[John146]

Let's get the wording right first.

Colossians 3 (KJV)

1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

The flesh has been put off and our life is hid in Christ. Paul is telling the believers not to act like you used to. You're in Christ now, act like it.

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

You see, the believer has already been made a new creature in Christ. Why the teaching to the Colossians if they need to do works to continue to be in Christ? It's not about salvation. It's about rewards. Rewards are earned.
Verse 24: ,"Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ." The reward of the inheritance' is the Millennial reign (Eph. 5:5; Gal. 5: 21; 1 Cor. 6:9). The inheritance is an earned reward, and it is the absolute opposite of salvation by grace (Rom 4:14). Rewards come from service..."for ye serve the Lord Christ." Service will count as "suffering" for Christ (Rom. 8:16-22) and it entitles the Christian to a literal, visible, earthy piece of property at the Advent of Christ (Lk. 19:11- 27). The "joint-heir" of Gal. 3:29 shares in the Jewish, earthly, literal, visible, political Kingdom for 1,000 years. (Rev. 20:1-7)

 

[followjesus]

Let's get the wording right first.

Colossians 3 (KJV)

1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

The flesh has been put off and our life is hid in Christ. Paul is telling the believers not to act like you used to. You're in Christ now, act like it.

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

You see, the believer has already been made a new creature in Christ. Why the teaching to the Colossians if they need to do works to continue to be in Christ? It's not about salvation. It's about rewards. Rewards are earned.
Verse 24: ,"Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ." The reward of the inheritance' is the Millennial reign (Eph. 5:5; Gal. 5: 21; 1 Cor. 6:9). The inheritance is an earned reward, and it is the absolute opposite of salvation by grace (Rom 4:14). Rewards come from service..."for ye serve the Lord Christ." Service will count as "suffering" for Christ (Rom. 8:16-22) and it entitles the Christian to a literal, visible, earthy piece of property at the Advent of Christ (Lk. 19:11- 27). The "joint-heir" of Gal. 3:29 shares in the Jewish, earthly, literal, visible, political Kingdom for 1,000 years. (Rev. 20:1-7)

this is the same teaching that you see in several of pauls letter. when paul says " I warn you as I did before that those who live like this, WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. he is saying what he is saying, it isn't once he says that but several times. he does not teach a salvation regardless of our actions. theres a difference between saying I love Jesus, and loving Jesus. a difference between saying I'm in Christ, and living in Christ. when paul says this what do you see to support your idea here?

God cannot be mocked, a man reaps what he sows, the one who sows to please the sinful nature from that nature will reap death, the one who SOWS to PLEASE the spirit, from the spirit will reap ETERNAL LIFE." whats the subject here? does the person working to please his sinful nature and reaps death, are you sau=ying to me paul teaches that mans also saved? nope. its clear just as these same following examples for you, but look open your mind don't reject these things because they don't agree with the doctrine, gotta choose the truth of what is there reather than what popular authoers tell you. look the words of paul whom you all hold so very highly.

galatians 5:19-21 "19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."

1 cor 6:7-11 "7The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[SUP]a[/SUP] 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

you see a pattern? your idea is because jesus made me new, I'm not accountable no matter what its all about what he already did. paul is saying live right because you were given this gift, what you all omit repeatedly is that IF YOU DONT you will not inherit Gods kingdom. that's the lie in the doctrine. it negates the believers responsibility to live as they are. in effect a person who claims a new creation and lives as the old is deceiving themselves. it is when you know your new and live as taught by Jesus. more examples regarding our behavior and salvation? which youll most likely say aren't there...

ephesians 5:3-7 "3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[SUP]a[/SUP] 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them."

are you seeing the flaw in unconditional here as taught by paul? paul here says plainly to the believers at Ephesus, to the believing church after telling them of grace. he the same man says " of this you can be SURE. ; no immoral, impure or greedy person- such a man is an idolater- has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God" does this to you, translate that our actions don't have a part in deter=mining our eternal home? is the kingdom of God or the reference to eternal life are those things not really in the word did paul not teach these things repetitively to the very believers he explained Gods grace to?

if paul taught grace, and he did, and then in the same letters teaches that no one who is living in the sinful nature will inherit Gods Kingdom, explain to me how say...romans 8:1 erases the rest of pauls revelations and teachings? how when he clearly teaches that our behavior is part of our destiny, how do people just ignore that? its because the doctrine of only unwarranted favor is rooted inside. and that doctrine will never allow the truth. I used to think whats the harm in that belief, but the problem is I stayed in Gods word and that doctrine does not hold up to the mass of clear scriptures about Christian behavior and eternal life.

rather than take a verse here and there take 3 chaopters as a message and youll see that grace does not exclude punishment for sin, nor does it remove the absolute responsibility for a believer to live right, BECAUSE the Lord has done so much to make us able and give us the way home. Grace is true, that doctrine misteaches Grace. Grace saved us from sin, Jesus also and just as important teaches His followers to BE graceful to others. and yes it is absolutely without a shadow of doubt CONDITIONAL upon the response of the believer to this great grace offered by God. if I am forgiven, I MUST forgive or I have no forgiveness ( the parable of the unforgiving debtor. or even simpler the Lords prayer

If you forgive men when they sin against you, God will forgive you your sins. BUT IF YOU DO NOT forgive, God will not forgive you." its not unconditional, Jesus, paul, james, peter, john.....all of them taught this. paul was no different, he did not bring a strange gospel, he revealed the atonements power to make us new, and he also taught us how to actually live to please God.

he said of himself and the apostles " we make it our goal to please God in every way." should Christians not have the goal of pleasing God in everything? Jesus taught it also. said " My Father Loves me BECAUSE I do exactly what he commands me" he also said " whoever obeys my teachings is the one who loves me, and my father will love him, we will come and make our home with him." you guys have a thought that I'm saved, therefore ill get around to living right someday, magically God will just make me obey. that's false. God forgave us made us new, the free will is still mans. do I love Jesus? or do I love sin and the world? where is my heart? look at my actions. belief is validated byu action. faith is in the action. Jesus gave all of it to and for us, even detailed commands to follow into eternal life. one more example from paul ?

romans 6:15-18 15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

or romans 8:12-13 "12Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.


yoy see nearly every epistle of paul teaches this. if you live as a sinner you will die, if you follow the spirit found in the nature of Christ and His Gospel, you have every pronmise to thoise in Christ. you all omit too much for me to accept. grace is great. it does not excuse our future behavior in anyway. there are so many warnings of walking in sin rather than righteousness. you know you guys should consider this one thing. How much did Jesus suffer to give you the free gift? that's all the insentive we need to obey with all our heart mind soul and strength. carry around His suffering and death daily and sin loses its appeal as we follow the principles like turn the other cheek, forgive others as God forgave you, care for the needy, help others, repent of sin and sinful thoughts ect..ect all the things Jesus taught his disciples. that is where our new nature grows and becomes stronger than the old. repent of the sinner, and LIVE as the righteous. but he who does what is roight, is righteous. that's another scripture.....

 

[John146]

this is the same teaching that you see in several of pauls letter. when paul says " I warn you as I did before that those who live like this, WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. he is saying what he is saying, it isn't once he says that but several times. he does not teach a salvation regardless of our actions. theres a difference between saying I love Jesus, and loving Jesus. a difference between saying I'm in Christ, and living in Christ. when paul says this what do you see to support your idea here?

Notice, salvation is not in question but inheritance. The believer who walks after the flesh will receive no inheritance. Yes, God will not be mocked. One of His own can't live in the ways of the world and still expect to receive a full inheritance. Just see the prodigal son as an example. He squandered all of his inheritance on worldly living but he himself remained a son of the father.

 

[John146]

1 cor 6:7-11 "7The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[SUP]a[/SUP] 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

There you go. Those Corinthian believers were living carnal, worldly lives and yet, the Holy Spirit said they were washed, justified and sanctified. Paul's instructing them to stop acting like the world and start living up to the name you represent. Hey guys, you're washed, live like it. He guys, you're justified, start living like it. Hey guys, you're set apart, start living like it.

 

[John146]

ephesians 5:3-7 "3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[SUP]a[/SUP] 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them."

Once more, Paul instruction to the believers are about living right, live like a believer who's been set apart from the world. If not, your inheritance in the kingdom of God is at stake. You may lose your inheritance, your rewards.

 

[John146]

yoy see nearly every epistle of paul teaches this. if you live as a sinner you will die, if you follow the spirit found in the nature of Christ and His Gospel, you have every pronmise to thoise in Christ. you all omit too much for me to accept. grace is great. it does not excuse our future behavior in anyway. there are so many warnings of walking in sin rather than righteousness. you know you guys should consider this one thing. How much did Jesus suffer to give you the free gift? that's all the insentive we need to obey with all our heart mind soul and strength. carry around His suffering and death daily and sin loses its appeal as we follow the principles like turn the other cheek, forgive others as God forgave you, care for the needy, help others, repent of sin and sinful thoughts ect..ect all the things Jesus taught his disciples. that is where our new nature grows and becomes stronger than the old. repent of the sinner, and LIVE as the righteous. but he who does what is roight, is righteous. that's another scripture.....

What your advocating is that the cross of Jesus Christ saves a person for the moment, but the believer's walk saves a person from that point forward. The salvation of Jesus Christ only saves a person momentarily at belief, but obedience saves a person for eternity. What bragging rights we have! What boasting! I, I, I, and me, me, me...