Two Camps... rules & grace

Grace777x70 · Jul 22, 2016

jcha said:

Watch this 11 minute video and it'll be plain as day to you exactly what spiritual adultery is. We need to stop committing spiritual adultery on the Lord Jesus Christ.

True Christians that are in Christ are dead to the law and have been joined to another which is our Lord.

[video=youtube;6bhZlQNCV7o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bhZlQNCV7o[/video]

FreeNChrist · Jul 22, 2016

disciplemike said:

I hope everybody saw this ^^^^^^

PeterJens · Jul 22, 2016

But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
Rom 7:6

Let us be simple. The law is one version of love worked out for one nation Israel.
We are bound to the way of the Spirit, which is driven by love from your heart.
How is this love released? By knowing Christ through the cross.

What I mean is you have love in you, you were born with love in you. But you have
locked it away, become corrupted, defiled, overcome with lusts and desires which rise
above what should be to possess you in sin.

But the cross is the eternal statement of what Gods love is for you, face to face,
personal, an embrace of perfection to a lost sinner.

The written law should be a help for life and understanding not condemnation, yet
for some even to mention the law is condemnation because they are not walking
in the Spirit. But maybe that is the test. If you are walking in the spirit, meditating
and dwelling on Gods law should be an encouragement and a delight.

PeterJens · Jul 22, 2016

disciplemike said:

"So you need to establish your own righteousness then?"

Establishing righteousness in your life, Amen.

Some believe anything in yourself is evil. So if you talk about what the Lord has done in
your life, it is bringing praise to yourself and not praise to Christ for His work.

But this is wrong. Listen to Paul

Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Phil 1:6

Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.
2 Tim 2:21

Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Cor 7:1

If we are not changed, transformed, actively walking as God Holy people then what is the point.
It sounds like some believe they just are, and God does everything. But this simply is not true
and nothing in life just happens. We are called to obey, abide, dwell, praise, do good works,
aspire to righteousness and hate wickedness, which are all active things.

So those who oppose Gods word oppose God. They may have the best sounding arguments or
ingenious ways of saying things do not apply to them, but the fruit is still the same, rebellion.

jamesg1951 · Jul 22, 2016

This is how I see it.

The law was given because people did not have the spirit in them to stop them from killing, stealing, committing adultery, etc.
Love casts out all the fears that make us harm others to meet our needs of food shelter and security.
Jesus had to die so the father could send the comforter to live within us and give us the courage and strength to love others and meet the needs of belonging and love and self actualization.

The law is like corporal punishment for children. slap the hand pat the bottom and ground them until they are wise enough to know the reason that we need to obey the spirit of truth and righteousness and love our neighbors.

A person who loves their neighbor is not going to break any of the laws set up to protect their neighbor. Therefore the laws is meaningless and unnecessary for those who live under the spirit of grace and have no desire or intention to break the law.

Did I miss something?

jcha · Jul 22, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Romans 7:2
For the woman which hath an husband is bound by thelaw to her husband so long as he liveth; but if thehusband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

Romans 7:3
So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married toanother man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.I

Romans 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead tothe law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from thedead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

1 Corinthians 7:39
The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty tobe married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

Deuteronomy 24King James Version (KJV)

1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before theLord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

None of the prophets understood how God can remarry backsliding Israel which would make God to violate His own law of Deuteronomy 24:1-4.

Only Paul was made to understand this mystery of the gospel. That "this law" of marriage, divorce and remarriage is the law we are dead to in Christ Jesus.

But Modern Christianity teaches we are dead to the whole Torah and does not see or understand the mystery of the ages, which is how God can make a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah.

Jeremiah 33:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Hebrews8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

In the old covenant marriage contract, once God divorced the House of Israel because of her "adultery" there was not a path they could follow to reunite with God, but in many scriptures God says He is making a new covenant "marriage contract" for the House of Israel.

Paul understood this mystery. Jesus came as Immanuel, God with us. God in the person of Jesus had to die for our sins, was dead and buried 3 days and then arose as a new man so that the Gentiles (lost sheep) could marry her as the law of marriage, and divorce had been fully satisfied. In addition.
, Paul teaches that we too are to die to our old nature and through baptism apply the spiritual principle that we are now alive with the new covenant marriage contract.

Remember Jesus's words, Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto thelost sheep of the house of Israel.

If you are not joined to Israel, then you are outside of the new covenant.

Grace777x70 · Jul 22, 2016

You are free to commit spiritual adultery on the Lord Jesus and live by the law instead of Christ in you if you want but that is not for me.

The video explains all this out which I know is offensive to "law-keepers" but it's the truth.

It's only 11 minutes long and explains how we go back to the Law we are committing adultery on the Lord as we are joined to another now.

[video=youtube;6bhZlQNCV7o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bhZlQNCV7o[/video]

PeterJens · Jul 22, 2016

On a small thread, why repeat a post of the same video?

But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
Rom 7:6

Let us be simple. The law is one version of love worked out for one nation Israel.
We are bound to the way of the Spirit, which is driven by love from your heart.
How is this love released? By knowing Christ through the cross.

What I mean is you have love in you, you were born with love in you. But you have
locked it away, become corrupted, defiled, overcome with lusts and desires which rise
above what should be to possess you in sin.

But the cross is the eternal statement of what Gods love is for you, face to face,
personal, an embrace of perfection to a lost sinner.

The written law should be a help for life and understanding not condemnation, yet
for some even to mention the law is condemnation because they are not walking
in the Spirit. But maybe that is the test. If you are walking in the spirit, meditating
and dwelling on Gods law should be an encouragement and a delight.

valiant · Jul 22, 2016

jcha said:

this is an illustration saying we are dead to the Law and united with Christ. It is NOT teaching on adultery,,

This is general statement about marriage,

Deuteronomy 24King James Version (KJV)

1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before theLord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Click to expand...

This was given because of their hardness of Heart. It is dealing with one issue only, a man marrying his wife a second time. It does not otherwise apply,

Jeremiah 3:

Click to expand...

This was a simple illustration of how Judah followed after Israel. Or are you going to say it illustrates that God though it ok to take two wives?

None of the prophets understood how God can remarry backsliding Israel which would make God to violate His own law of Deuteronomy 24:1-4.

Click to expand...

The prophets thought it irrelevant. Hosea2.16 shows that it was no problem,

Only Paul was made to understand this mystery of the gospel. That "this law" of marriage, divorce and remarriage is the law we are dead to in Christ Jesus.

Click to expand...

Paul was simply showing that we were dead to the Law and united with Christ. there was no 'mystery'

But Modern Christianity teaches we are dead to the whole Torah

Click to expand...

well that is what Paul said

and does not see or understand the mystery of the ages, which is how God can make a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah.

Click to expand...

God made a new covenant with His people who now include Gentile proselytes as it always did. We celebrate it at the Lords Supper. It has nothing to do with divorce,

Jeremiah 33:33

Click to expand...

yes the new covenant is with ALL Israel and that includes ALL believers (Eph 2.11-22' Gal 3.29; Rom 11.12-23; 1 Peter 2.9).

God did not REALLY marry Israel. It was an illustration. He was not bound by marriage laws.

which mystery?

lol Jesus wasn't bound by OT marriage law

not on the basis of deuteronomy lol

But after the syro phoenician woman that no longer applied. Mark 6.51 onwards.

If you are not joined to Israel, then you are outside of the new covenant.

Click to expand...

True because we are part of the true Israel

you build a lot on nothing,

disciplemike · Jul 22, 2016

valiant said:

It deals with God taking back His wife, Israel. I hope you can see that. When Messiah died, Israel was no longer bound by the law of marriage/re-marriage. It is one of the most significant passages that shows how serious God is about His law!!

posthuman · Jul 22, 2016

disciplemike said:

i've patiently explained to you more than once that this is wrong. you are still spreading this blasphemy, and more than that, acting as if these lies are something to boast of!

it is the woman who committed adultery who must die, not the One who is holy and blameless.
the church is the Bride of the Lamb, not the Father, and the church and the Israel of God are one. we, the church of God, are made a new person a spotless and chaste virgin, acceptable to the Son for a bride, when we ourselves are put to death in Him by the cross. we are the ones who must die in order for the marriage of the Lamb ((not the Father)) to be sanctified by the Law. we are free, having died to our former husband: sin

Christ says that a man who marries a woman who has been divorced is committing adultery. Christ is the same yesterday, today, forever: He rose from the dead the very same person as He was before He gave His life for us.
so you are making God an adulterer.
you are teaching that God died so that God can marry a divorced, adulterous woman.
you are teaching that God is an adulterer.
and you should be ashamed!

i hope you see that -- but i know that you ignore everything i say, even though that too, is a transgression of the law, since the law says "you shall not bear a grudge"

he who hates reproof is stupid.
(Proverbs 12:1)

posthuman · Jul 22, 2016

mike, feel free at any time to talk about this Savior you say you have.

thanks.

disciplemike · Jul 22, 2016

Because Ephraim hath made many altars to sin, altars shall be unto him to sin.I have written to him the great things of my law,
[but] they were counted as a strange thing. Hosea 8:11-12 (KJV)

posthuman · Jul 22, 2016

disciplemike said:

Satan quotes scripture too.

mike, feel free to talk about this Savior you say you have, any time.

or is your savior the Law of the old covenant, which Israel broke by adultery, which is the reason that she received her certificate of divorce?

the scripture says the one who hates correction is stupid.

posthuman · Jul 22, 2016

the scripture says an adulterer must be put to death.

but you want the Father to die, so the Father can marry an adulterous woman.

that woman must die -- or she will never see the Kingdom.

posthuman · Jul 22, 2016

your rabbi must die, or she will never see the Kingdom.

you must die, or you will never see the Kingdom.

don't you know that immersion into the Messiah is immersion into His death?

valiant · Jul 22, 2016

disciplemike said:

The Christians were seen as married to 'a husband', any husband. It is an illustration. It has nothing to do with the Lord taking back Israel. Then they died as far as the Law was concerned.. The point is that they DIED TO THE LAW. Then they were raised with Christ. They were no longer under the Law. The Law had no power over them. They were dead to the Law, and alive with Christ

You are reading in what is not there!!!!

posthuman · Jul 22, 2016

valiant said:

no one comes to the Father except through Christ.

not even Israel.

everyone who is baptized into the Son is baptized into His death.

Israel must be born again.

the Father is not "born again" so He can be "freed" to engage in adultery!
that's confusion. utter, blasphemous, ridiculous confusion.

royalscot · Jul 22, 2016

disciplemike said:

you have to be it, to win it. not pointing to out side and see , only shows division to the truth.

ie opinion can vary, but truth has a spiritual guide . not a fool with logic , that has no meaning

jcha · Jul 22, 2016

A teaching that rightly divides the word of God.

[video=youtube_share;aeQr1tD1rtI]http://youtu.be/aeQr1tD1rtI[/video]

Two Camps... rules & grace

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