So what about the fourth commandment?

posthuman · Jul 21, 2016

why don't you answer the question, mike? you dodge just about every question i ask you.

do i ask hard questions?
or is it the answers that are hard for you?

surely it's not because you are incapable of answering. & i don't think you are completely ignorant. so it must be that you refuse to answer any of these questions because the answers trouble you.

the answer should not trouble you: the answer is that One that you came here claiming to represent.
the answer is Yeshua Ha-Mashiach.
it seems so easy for you to confess the Law - are you unable to confess Christ? what prevents you?

posthuman · Jul 21, 2016

let no one deceive you

One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
(Romans 14:5)

be convinced for yourself.
the argument to follow the example of the holy days in the Law is compelling.
the argument that Christ is the fulfillment of these & each day in Him is as all others is also compelling.
be fully convinced, and allow no one to condemn you, and condemn no one.

GandalfTheWhite · Jul 21, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

The interesting thing about this verse is that the filthy rags' picture in Hebrew is the cloth that women used during their menstrual cycle. So in ourselves our righteousness is like this dirty blood without redemption, but when we accept the King of kings we are cleansed by His clean blood that was spilled on the cross. This verse is a foreshadow of the death of our Messiah.

GandalfTheWhite · Jul 21, 2016

posthuman said:

The Bible warns us not to judge each other because like we judge, we will be judged. If I tell you that I am keeping the law and judge others on that, I will be judged like that when Messiah returns.

Yeshua kept the law to the last little dot but He never judged people, it will be done when He return for His bride.

GandalfTheWhite · Jul 21, 2016

posthuman said:

Php 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
Php 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Php 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Php 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Paul said that before he was saved he boasted in himself by keeping the law and judged others in that fashion. But now that he got to know Christ his redemption is in the blood of our Messiah and not the law. Paul realised that the law without Christ was like “dung”. We need Christ in the law to be saved not the law without Christ.

Ahwatukee · Jul 21, 2016

GandalfTheWhite said:

What you have said above is not the truth. If you or anyone else is attempting to keep the law, you will not inherit the kingdom of God and that because you are trusting in your own efforts instead of trusting in Christ who alone provided salvation completely and fully. If what you said was true, the Paul would be guilty of judgment because he taught salvation by grace through faith apart from the works of the law. People always misapply judgment, as a way to silence Christians. Regarding judgment, what would you say about the following:

"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside."

"If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!"

We are not to judge if we are doing the same things or worse. Jesus said, "why do you try to help your brother with the speck in his eye, when you have a board in your own? First remove the board from your eye, then you will see plainly to help your brother with the speck in his eye.

As Christians we are supposed to make right judgments. We make judgments everyday about the evil in the world or those who call themselves Christians who are sowing to the flesh.

GandalfTheWhite · Jul 21, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

What you have said above is not the truth. If you or anyone else is attempting to keep the law, you will not inherit the kingdom of God and that because you are trusting in your own efforts instead of trusting in Christ who alone provided salvation completely and fully. If what you said was true, the Paul would be guilty of judgment because he taught salvation by grace through faith apart from the works of the law. People always misapply judgment, as a way to silence Christians. Regarding judgment, what would you say about the following:

"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside."

"If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!"

We are not to judge if we are doing the same things or worse. Jesus said, "why do you try to help your brother with the speck in his eye, when you have a board in your own? First remove the board from your eye, then you will see plainly to help your brother with the speck in his eye.

As Christians we are supposed to make right judgments. We make judgments everyday about the evil in the world or those who call themselves Christians who are sowing to the flesh.

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

We should judge the works in that if you see me do things that is not Biblical you can approach me in a Godly way and tell me in the love of Christ I am acting outside the will of God… but the Bible does not require us to condemn each other.

disciplemike · Jul 21, 2016

Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.
For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.
Proverbs 4:1-2 (KJV)

TMS · Jul 21, 2016

The law and every Sabbath keeping effort without Christ is dung, useless, vain or even legalistic. Because without Christ we can not be saved, It is only by His righteousness that we can stand in the judgement.
But some use this as an excuse to continue in sin. Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments and if the Sabbath is a commandment that i keep as to reveal my love for Christ it is not legalistic or vain but a response motivated by love.

Psa_1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa_40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
Psa_119:70 Their heart is as fat as grease; but I delight in thy law.
Psa_119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.
Rom_7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Paul delighted in the law after the inward man.

posthuman · Jul 21, 2016

TMS said:

Amen

so what is it if someone comes and teaches law keeping as righteousness but never teaches grace or confesses Christ?

what is a person doing if they praise the Law continually but without praising God for the grace He has given us through the Son and never preaching the gospel?

even if that person constantly quotes scripture?

what is such a person doing?

if we look at what the apostles taught, it is never disobedience or any lack of doing good works, but FIRST Christ, crucified and raised, and the grace of God. this is the foundation, and a righteous life comes afterwards not by our efforts but by God working and willing in us after we are already sanctified and clean and wholly saved and secure, by faith & not by any works!

((sent from my Bush-phone))

jsr1221 · Jul 21, 2016

If the Sabbath was supposed to be a specific day, then how come you guys go to the grocery store. Gas station. Out to eat. Or maybe even the movies on that day? People have to work if the business is going to have customers. By you going there, you're causing the person to work. So, if the Sabbath is really supposed to be a specific day, and working on said day is a sin, then why do you all contribute to the person's sin?

disciplemike · Jul 22, 2016

jsr1221 said:

we don't do any of those things on the Sabbath.
You are correct. That would not make sense.

TMS · Jul 22, 2016

posthuman said:

The foundation is Christ and the Gospel, (i agree) and obedience is a natural result, but we don't become obedient unless we acknowledge that we need to change.
Keeping the law will only happen if you believe that it is the right, correct, obedient, or loving thing to do. As fellow Christians we are past the milk stage (i hope) and the foundation should be set. We need Christ just as much today as when we just started but we should be moving forward in His grace, and by grace we can look to the law to help us to define what is righteous and unrighteous.
I feel that this is more of a debate about what is righteous and what is unrighteous. What is sin and what isn't.

jsr1221 · Jul 22, 2016

disciplemike said:

Don't lie, guy. You've been to some place of business on the Sabbath. A grocery store. Gas station. Mechanic. Whatever. Point is, you've been out and about on the Sabbath. And according to you, such is a sin. So let's call a spade a spade.

JimmieD · Jul 22, 2016

jsr1221 said:

Used the internet, used Google, checked email, watched TV, turned on the lights/heat/AC.....all require SOMEONE to work on the "Sabbath." I think it's weird that a Sabbatarian would demand services from anyone on the Sabbath; it's certainly inconsistent.

disciplemike · Jul 22, 2016

jsr1221 said:

sorry, for the last 3 years, we have not made any purchases on the Sabbath. Does that make me perfect? of course not. But I want to obey the King!

Grace777x70 · Jul 22, 2016

Whoever breaks one commandment in the law breaks them all. People love to "water" down the Law to make it "do-able" but in reality they are breaking it constantly. Their only hope is coming to Christ and believing in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection.

Magenta · Jul 22, 2016

disciplemike said:

Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
*
Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
*
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

disciplemike · Jul 22, 2016

Magenta said:

for someone who loves God with all their heart, soul, and mind, keeping His 4th commandment would not be a debate. Selah.

UnderGrace · Jul 22, 2016

disciplemike said:

Your are right..... it is a non-issue.

So what about the fourth commandment?

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