So what about the fourth commandment?

[gotime]

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

It was for Israel only. Was. We were once strangers from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; FOR MINE HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED AN HOUSE OF PRAYER FOR ALL PEOPLE.

Even them (us gentile strangers mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest. His house will be a house of prayer for ALL people....Not just the house of Israel


ISAIAH 14 [1] For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet CHOOSE ISRAEL, AND SET THEM IN THEIR OWN LAND: AND THE STRANGERS SHALL BE JOINED WITH THEM, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob. [2] And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors. [3] And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve, [4] That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! [5] The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. [6] He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. [7] THE WHOLE EARTH IS AT REST, AND IS QUIET: THEY BREAK FORTH INTO SINGING.


Yup

Not sure if I am understanding you correctly, but are you suggesting that Gentiles could not join Israel and become part of Israel before Jesus?

Because the law and the prophets would disagree with you if that is the case. The stranger/Gentile within the gates refereed to the mixed multitude of those who followed God after seeing what God had done to rescue the Hebrews.

However that being said, It was a long process which God gave before a stranger was considered an Israelite.

In Christ the process is quicker. But much of the issue Paul is dealing with in Ephesians 2 has more to do with the Jewish attitude towards Gentiles than God's. The Jews made separation between a pure Jew and an outsider. These were traditions of men that were put up to keep outsiders out. So even if they loved and served God they were still separate. The Jews boasted in the flesh as their claim to salvation. Thus the controversy over the law especially circumcision.

Anyway I may have misunderstood you.
Blessings.

 

[gotime]

Yes, ancient Israel as part of their covenant, but also all strangers, aliens, non-Israelites were also invited to have this covenant. The kingdom divided into 2 kingdoms, House of Judah and House of Israel. House of Israel was married to God (YHWH) ,but God divorced House of Israel, but promises to remarry.....bring back to the new covenant, but first Jesus had to come and die, buried for 3 days and resurrected in order for the House of Israel to remarry because God's own law of divorce and remarry requires that the first husband has to die. God with us, Immanuel. We probably don't have physical proof of our bloodline, but through Jesus it does not matter because the whole world is invited to become part of the commonwealth of Israel, by adoption, by grafting in and dying to our old natures we are buried also with Christ and now able to be called The Bride. IMO if you are just a gentle without adoption or grafting in, you will not be the bride. Once you are part of Israel, you recognise the old covenant commandments, teachings, instructions, corrections, directions have been placed in your heart, the Holy Spirit guides you, the scales fall from your eyes, your ears can hear and true and correct understanding of the New Testament teachings, parables and the acts of the apostles and disciples are only magnifying the Old.

Isaiah 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

he willPsalm 40:8 I delight to do your will, O my God: yes, your law is within my heart.Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said to him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus …Matthew 5:17-20 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am …Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish …Romans 7:12 Why the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.Romans 8:3,4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, …Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believes.Galatians 3:13,21 Christ has redeemed us from the, curse of the law, being made a curse …Galatians 5:22,23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, …Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel …1 John 3:4,5 Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression …

I like much of what you have said here, Its important to understand that the new covenant was made not with gentiles but with Israel and Judah. As it is written:

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Israel of course had gone in to captivity and Judah also followed after her ways into Babylon etc.

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Jet God promises to take back his bride by the mouth of Isaiah:

Isa 54:4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.
Isa 54:5 For thy Maker will espouse you; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Isa 54:6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
Isa 54:7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

This remarriage is in context with God gathering them form the places where they were exiled. This was foretold in Deut by the hand of Moses:

Deu 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
Deu 30:2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
Deu 30:3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
Deu 30:4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

Jeremiah spoke of this truth in this way:

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This again is in context of God bringing them back form their exile for their whore-dome read whole chapter.

So the new covenant while its greatest application is seen in Jesus Christ actually came to be when God took them back from exile. The problem is that they were so zealous to obey that they went too far and made traditions and ended up perverting Gods truth. Thus Jesus becomes the truest and greatest fulfilment of the new covenant.
Ps it is only new because they broke the first. Its a remarriage. God the husband takes them back as His bride and remembers their adultery no more.

Paul uses Abraham as a perfect example of new covenant teaching. Why Because Abraham Knew God, and Loved God and was as a faithful bride with the law on his heart.

 

[gotime]

Another point with the new covenant is this:

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The covenant mentioned here is a marriage vow which they broke by cheating on God by breaking the vow. but note that it says:

I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Notice it does not say a new law, Yes its a new covenant/vow but not a new law.

Just as today if one gets married and then divorced they can not simply continue the old marriage. Rather there must be a new marriage in order for that same couple to be married again.

So some time after the days when God would bring back Israel from captivity. He would make a new vow, Propose a new marriage. We know this is in Jesus. But it does not say a new law. In fact of the promised messiah it says:

Isa_42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Be aware that there is only one law that the prophets refereed to and one law in the law itself. So when Isaiah says magnify the law and make it honourable. He does not mean change the law or give a new law. But rather the Messiah will take the law the Jews knew and magnify it and make it honourable.

Jesus did exactly that, Just read the Gospels. Jesus magnified it in word and deed.

The idea of writing the law on the heart is simply saying that they will obey the law or in other words keep the vow unlike before when they broke it though God was a faithful husband to them.

Paul shows this point here:

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Paul has spoken of the Jews who had the law but did not keep it. They were like foolish men who built their house on the sand.

Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

The Jews hear the law but did not do it, They were a harlot to God.

Thus why Paul said above that it is not the hearers but the doers. Now he illustrates

those who do the law and notice its not Jews:

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Notice when the Gentiles, though they were not given the law but the Jews were. notice these words. "do" by nature the things in the law. So they don't force it they naturally obey it without having to add traditions etc.

What does this shew?

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts...

The fact that they obey the law even though the law was given to Israel and not them they shew the law is written on their hearts.

In all this the law has not changed. The only things that has changed is that now there are people who actually obey it.

 

[disciplemike]

Blessed
[is] the man [that] doeth this, and the son of man [that] layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. Isaiah 56:2 (KJV)

 

[Grandpa]

This saturday sabbath thing is kind of the most ironic thing about judaizers and legalists.

They place the emphasis on the wrong thing. On what their carnal mind and carnal strength can achieve.

Its me. Its me. I keep the sabbath. I keep the 4th commandment.


If this really were true and a person could keep this commandment all by an act of their own understanding and strength wouldn't their flesh be able to glory before the Lord? My understanding and MY strength accomplished your Will, God.

Hebrews 4 explains the problem and the solution, for those with ears to hear.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


You do remember what Sabbath actually means don't you?


2 Corinthians 3:3-6
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.



If you are interested in working at commandments, there are as many opinions as people on how it should be done correctly.

If you are interested in actually keeping commandments there is only one Way. And that is through the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[disciplemike]

Wait, Grandpa, I thought I had you converted?

This saturday sabbath thing is kind of the most ironic thing about judaizers and legalists.

They place the emphasis on the wrong thing. On what their carnal mind and carnal strength can achieve.

Its me. Its me. I keep the sabbath. I keep the 4th commandment.


If this really were true and a person could keep this commandment all by an act of their own understanding and strength wouldn't their flesh be able to glory before the Lord? My understanding and MY strength accomplished your Will, God.

Hebrews 4 explains the problem and the solution, for those with ears to hear.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


You do remember what Sabbath actually means don't you?


2 Corinthians 3:3-6
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.



If you are interested in working at commandments, there are as many opinions as people on how it should be done correctly.

If you are interested in actually keeping commandments there is only one Way. And that is through the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[TonyJay]

Compare the reasoning behind the (guarding) of the 4th commandment and Romans 1.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-11 (KJV)





For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Romans 1:20-28 (KJV)

If the only way that you can see the Book of Romans is through the lens of Levitical law then you will most definitely misunderstand it.
The only way to understand Romans is through the lens of the finished work of Christ Jesus.
Since you refuse to do this, the misunderstandings are inevitable.

 

[disciplemike]

If the only way that you can see the Book of Romans is through the lens of Levitical law then you will most definitely misunderstand it.
The only way to understand Romans is through the lens of the finished work of Christ Jesus.
Since you refuse to do this, the misunderstandings are inevitable.

not sure about that. but if you read Romans 1, you will see North America 2016.

 

[TonyJay]

not sure about that. but if you read Romans 1, you will see North America 2016.

So what....

 

[disciplemike]

So what....

nothing to add. just a thought.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I totally agree with your question, but what about the other nine commandments? ABBA Father has been working with me the last couple of months about the law and why it is important to understand it.

First of all I do not believe that the law spells out salvation but a relationship with God. The judgment of the law and its character is not up to us but we should leave it with God.

How many times have we seen people pray for something without receiving it? We ask why God? Why is my prayers “hitting the ceiling” without reaching your ears ABBA? But God showed me this example, if the vessel is unclean how can you try to clean the body (of Christ) by prayers. I cannot pray for somebody’s alcoholism but drink alcohol myself. How can you preach wealth and good health into somebody’s life without following the basic principles of God on how to manage my wealth and keep an undefiled body?

The law is not for salvation but for us to understand God’s character.

Our bodies are the temples of God. Yeshua cleaned the temple from any unauthorised activity. If we believe Him we should do the same with our temple. Clean it from any unauthorised activity. We have the guidelines. The Sabbath day rest is not a “take the day off and lounge around the house with your feet up” day. It is a specific day set aside for your relationship with ABBA Father.

There is a reason why God calls us to a relationship with Him. Don’t defile your body and keep to His guidelines and you will see powerful changes in your prayer life because we are in-line with His word. How can you try to cast out demons in the name of Jesus when the demons you are casting out have a hold on your life. Clean the vessel and God can use you.

To Sabbath or not to Sabbath is between you and God. Read the Bible and ask for guidance on this. To argue is just making things worse. Why don’t we rather keep the Sabbath and start praying for Spiritual guidance from God to preach to our brothers and sisters. If we are the example of Christ let us be the example that teach in love.

 

[disciplemike]

To Sabbath or not to Sabbath is between you and God. Read the Bible and ask for guidance on this. To argue is just making things worse. Why don’t we rather keep the Sabbath and start praying for Spiritual guidance from God to preach to our brothers and sisters. If we are the example of Christ let us be the example that teach in love.

first off, I don't hate anyone here. However, to remain quiet, and let believers claim that the Sabbath is not for us, is that showing love? I don't think so. People get very offended when you suggest Scripture teaches something different than the way they do things. I did too. We are to try as best we understand to conform our lives to Scripture, not conform our words to make everyone happy.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

first off, I don't hate anyone here. However, to remain quiet, and let believers claim that the Sabbath is not for us, is that showing love? I don't think so. People get very offended when you suggest Scripture teaches something different than the way they do things. I did too. We are to try as best we understand to conform our lives to Scripture, not conform our words to make everyone happy.

I have lost my cool on CC before but trying to teach people in love now

If you feel that you have to defend that statement so be it.

 

[disciplemike]

I have lost my cool on CC before but trying to teach people in love now

If you feel that you have to defend that statement so be it.

if you feel you know more about how to do things than I, so be it.

 

[laura_charlotte]

People get very offended when you suggest Scripture teaches something different than the way they do things. I did too. We are to try as best we understand to conform our lives to Scripture, not conform our words to make everyone happy.

This has been my experience in one of my own discussions. Your point was actually the one that I had been making all along - we must live our lives as closely to God as we possibly can eliminating all things of the enemy to the best of our knowledge and spirit. Nothing to do with having a negative spirit at all, the point is to try and be as close the Lord as you possibly can in your thoughts, actions and how you live your Christian walk.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

if you feel you know more about how to do things than I, so be it.

Just let me know if you have a problem with me... I am all for that

 

[Yet]

It's edifying to understand what the purpose of the 4th commandment was.

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you. Exodus 31:13

Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them. Ezekiel 20:12​

Resting in the fact that it is the lord who sanctifies us, and not our own works of self-righteousness, fulfills the righteousness of that law.

Who were these commands spoken to....all of man kind? I don't think so. 'Speak thou also unto the children of Israel'.

Genesis 9 is God's covenant with all of mankind. In verses 18 and 19 'and the sons of Noah that went out of the ark, were Shem, Ham, and Japheth...'
These are the three sons of Noah and of THEM WAS THE WHOLE EARTH OVERSPREAD (populated).'

Abraham was called out of all of mandkind with a promise of a new covenant to come in Christ. Jacob's name was changed to Israel birthing a new nation to bring forth the Messiah. Because of Israel's not obeying God to 'come up to the mount' and have a one on One relationship with God, God said ok, then 'i'll give you a complicated religious system with 613 laws and decrees, 'Try this on for size', He was saying.

Well that didn't work out so good. So God came down, the ever lasting Father, the Mighty God, Isaiah 9:6, to rescue Israel from religion and sin, and the gentiles from sin as well.

And so history has proven that man's religious efforts, no matter how noble, winds up in utter disaster. Even if he were to obey perfectly all 613 commands, that would result in pride of the heart. The fallen state of man is within. No amount of religious duty can fix that.
Again, the believers in Christ met every day of the week for fellowship. Adam and Hawwa walked every day of the week in the garden with God in the cool of the day. This has been restored. No one day sabbath mentioned being observed in the garden.

No incense, no table of shew bread, no altar, no curtain, no tapestry, no ornaments, no ceremonial duties, just plain ole one on One sweet fellowship with the Creator.

Jesus has restored the eternal purpose to the original organic fellowship that God has always intended between Him and mankind.

How hard is this to figure?

 

[posthuman]

first off, I don't hate anyone here.

are you sure about that?

is there anyone here who you call a fool, in your heart, and possibly actually with the words of your mouth, too?

anyone you refuse to even speak to?

anyone who no matter what he says, you won't listen to or consider, but write off right away as "babble" ?

what do you think God considers that to be displaying? love?

 

[posthuman]

not sure about that. but if you read Romans 1, you will see THE WHOLE WORLD EVER SINCE THE GARDEN

fixed your typo for you

 

[posthuman]

So the new covenant while its greatest application is seen in Jesus Christ actually came to be when God took them back from exile.

that's absolutely bogus.

what did they do after they returned from exile?
they found the book of the Law ((the same covenant they had been baptized into through Moses)) and tried to keep it again.

you are talking about - and preaching - the same covenant, the old one, which they have broken. the Lord promised a new covenant, and promised that ethnic Israel would be taught by a people of a strange tongue. that He would be found by people who did not know Him or seek Him.

and the new covenant He made does not 'have its greatest realization in Christ' -- that's just about blasphemous, dude.
the new covenant is Christ

“and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
(Romans 11:27)​

the blood of bulls and goats never took away sin.
only the blood of Jesus Christ takes sin away, and He remembers it no more!

you're spitting on that -- why did Christ die, if the new covenant is to be held under the old one? any Gentile since Moses could be circumcised and become a disciple of the Levites.

that priesthood is gone. it is no more. you're calling Christ worthless!