Dietary Laws?

[garee]

Where has God stated that eating flesh is a sin?

I would suggest when it has blood in it. It must be poured out as part of that ceremonial law . We are informed time and time again. We are not to drink the literal blood and hope blood without the life of the spirit could profit. It is His spirit that can quicken or souls. Literal blood has no spirit life to offer. It like flesh returns to the lifeless spiritless dust it came from the rudiments of this world as that in which we do not know Christ after. .

Leviticus 4:18 And he shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar which is before the LORD, that is in the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall pour out all the blood at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Leviticus 4:25 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out his blood at the bottom of the altar of burnt offering.

Leviticus 4:30 And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar.

Leviticus 4:34 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar:

Leviticus 17:13 And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.

Christ said his flesh and blood does not profit. .The spirit life of the flesh is in the blood but that kind of life is not literal blood that we need, but a new never ending spirit life.

The blood we are to drink which is a metaphor for pouring out His Spirit, is the life of Christ that he poured out in jeopardy of another, us. Literal blood has no redeeming value when it comes to spirit life, the promise ..

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will “pour out my spirit” upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

What is the spiritual meaning of the parable "drink blood", as it relates to Christ... is the question I think we should ask our selves.

 

[JosephsDreams]

I am living in an environment that would more than sustain my life from just vegan sources. I could easily survive without meat. So then, you think my eating meat is one of those immoral cases. It's okay that you think this about me. It doesn't make me mad. I wub you! I would be very willing to look into what verses you have been given to arrive at this conclusion that I am doing something immoral.

I want to make it clear that God has conceded that we are going to eat meat. It is like when Israel wanted a King. The Lord was not happy about it, He made that clear. But He allowed it.
The same with eating meat, and for that matter also highly processed foods.
It is not what God intended for us. Genesis 1:29 supports that.
I believe God considers it a deviation from His perfect plan for us, and therefore we miss the mark.
But thank God for Jesus, we are clean.
That does not mean though that many things we do and take for granted as being "normal" are not outside Gods original plan for us.

 

[KohenMatt]

And you think that eating another person would not be abominable...????

That's not the point of what I'm saying at all.

The question of whether or not God specifically says it's a sin, is.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

That's not the point of what I'm saying at all.

The question of whether or not God specifically says it's a sin, is.

You mean a verse that specifically says it is a sin to cook and eat another person?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I want to make it clear that God has conceded that we are going to eat meat. It is like when Israel wanted a King. The Lord was not happy about it, He made that clear. But He allowed it.
The same with eating meat, and for that matter also highly processed foods.
It is not what God intended for us. Genesis 1:29 supports that.
I believe God considers it a deviation from His perfect plan for us, and therefore we miss the mark.
But thank God for Jesus, we are clean.
That does not mean though that many things we do and take for granted as being "normal" are not outside Gods original plan for us.

I agree it was not His original plan for us to kill and eat animals. It was not His original plan that anything He created should be killed. He doesn't create things for the purpose of them dying. He creates things for the purpose of them living. Yet, it was God himself who killed the first animal. Blows the mind kind of...anyway, my knot comes over the damage you might do to yourself (not by being a vegetarian because you are right to follow your conscience!) by considering so many to be sinning by eating them because it is not what we put into our body that defiles us but what comes from inside of us that defiles us.

I think every man should follow his conscience but at the same time, should not think (or at least not assert vocally) that others are immoral, missing the mark, or sinning against God because they do not also follow his own conscience but follow their own instead.

It's pretty deep at any rate. Gets you thinking.

 

[KohenMatt]

You mean a verse that specifically says it is a sin to cook and eat another person?

Yes. If you follow the conversation I was having with Ariel, you'll see why I was asking that.

 

[garee]

Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace

I am living in an environment that would more than sustain my life from just vegan sources. I could easily survive without meat. So then, you think my eating meat is one of those immoral cases. It's okay that you think this about me. It doesn't make me mad. I wub you! I would be very willing to look into what verses you have been given to arrive at this conclusion that I am doing something immoral.

Clean and unclean laws were required but did not profit as if they were the real work .It’s what shadows do... point to the real, unseen. The faith principle.

Dietary laws have no real substance to offer therefore we are no judge one another in regard to the use of them. There could be some good health issues but they have nothing to do with reaching our souls, cleaning our conscience

Let no man therefore judge you in “meat, or in drink”, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the “sabbath days” :Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col 2:16

Peter had a hard time understanding the commandment according to the vision , I think because he was not mixing faith (the unseen) in what he did hear coming from that parable, three times. Three times and you’re out . This is when God had sent the Italian gentile to help Peter understand what it means to eat and drink in a spiritual way, not seen.. He was under the idea that food that did enter our mouth could enter or souls quickening it. This shows he had no understanding. It would seem he was still stuck believing ceremonial laws could make our conscience clean. The reformation brought confusion while it reformed the mind of some, like Peter.

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood “only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them "until" the time of "reformation”. Heb 9:8

I would ask has that time come?

I would also ask what does it mean to eat and drink in a spiritual way as far as food also called meat ?

Can we eat or drink something literally and hope it will quicken our souls?

Did Jesus eat meat that the disciples did not know of and therefore did not understand according to the parable? What did he say that meat that he ate meant ?

 

[JosephsDreams]

I agree it was not His original plan for us to kill and eat animals. It was not His original plan that anything He created should be killed. He doesn't create things for the purpose of them dying. He creates things for the purpose of them living. Yet, it was God himself who killed the first animal. Blows the mind kind of...anyway, my knot comes over the damage you might do to yourself (not by being a vegetarian because you are right to follow your conscience!) by considering so many to be sinning by eating them because it is not what we put into our body that defiles us but what comes from inside of us that defiles us.

I think every man should follow his conscience but at the same time, should not think (or at least not assert vocally) that others are immoral, missing the mark, or sinning against God because they do not also follow his own conscience but follow their own instead.

It's pretty deep at any rate. Gets you thinking.

We are all sinning. Gods original plan in the garden of Eden was our perfection. We think of murder as sin, as homosexual behavior as sin, or all sexual perversion under the umbrella of sexual immorality, but why do we not consider that taking food and processing it is not arrogant? It is like telling God, hey, you made blueberries, in its perfect form, but we are going to add chemicals, and preservatives, and intensify it's taste, because we can do it better then you Lord. That is insulting to God, if you ask me.
Just like it is insulting to say to God that same sex marriage is acceptable. God designed marriage between a man and a woman, He knows what He is doing. To have the audacity to presume to tell God love is love, all the same, man to man, woman to woman, that its all good; it blows my mind sometimes.
Or what we do to the environment, the environment He gave us to be caretakers of.
We are so steeped in our routines, that we sometimes forget just how embedded sin is, through our nature and the world system.
Cain, instead of seeking God after he killed Able, went the course of trying to make his own paradise. Comforts of the flesh, culture to stimulate something inside...
I think none of us can really truly envision, or practice, the type of lifestyle that God wants for us, even with the limitations of this world.
That's why the church has fallen short of power, and why Lucifer keeps advancing in this world.

But again, the good news is thanks to Jesus, despite the troubles we will have in this life, we have grace and power, a eternity ahead with Him, but we need to avail ourselves.
If we know God never intended us to eat animal flesh, even though He made a concession to our lust, I think we should at least try to honor that knowledge by doing something, even if it is cutting it down by 10%, just to say, "Lord, I know your not fully endorsing me eating animals, so because I have that knowledge and because I love you, and I know what you say is perfect and for my good, I am going to try to do less of this."
.

 

[Ariel82]

You mean a verse that specifically says it is a sin to cook and eat another person?

Micah: 3. 1. And I said, Hear, I pray you, O heads of Jacob, and ye princes of the house of Israel; Is it not for you to know judgment? 2. Who hate the good, and love the evil; who pluck off their skin from off them, and their flesh from off their bones; 3. Who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron. 4. Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings. 5. Thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that make my people err, that bite with their teeth, and cry, Peace; and he that putteth not into their mouths, they even prepare war against him. 6. Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them. 7. Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God. 8. But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin. 9. Hear this, I pray you, ye heads of the house of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel, that abhor judgment, and pervert all equity. 10. They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity. 11. The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us. 12. Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.



***** God calls them and their actions evil.***** do you really want to argue that cannabalism is NOT a sin?

Sorry but I am just going to read my Bible and pray now.

To continue is beyond me.

Murder is a sin, in order to eat someone you would have to murder them.

 

[Ariel82]

Change "you" to "does anyone want to argue"... More of a rhetorical question...sorry stunned won't let me edit.

 

[KohenMatt]

Micah: 3. 1. And I said, Hear, I pray you, O heads of Jacob, and ye princes of the house of Israel; Is it not for you to know judgment? 2. Who hate the good, and love the evil; who pluck off their skin from off them, and their flesh from off their bones; 3. Who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron. 4. Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings. 5. Thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that make my people err, that bite with their teeth, and cry, Peace; and he that putteth not into their mouths, they even prepare war against him. 6. Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them. 7. Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God. 8. But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin. 9. Hear this, I pray you, ye heads of the house of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel, that abhor judgment, and pervert all equity. 10. They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity. 11. The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us. 12. Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.



***** God calls them and their actions evil.***** do you really want to argue that cannabalism is NOT a sin?

Sorry but I am just going to read my Bible and pray now.

To continue is beyond me.

Murder is a sin, in order to eat someone you would have to murder them.

Thanks for the Scripture.

I'm not arguing AT ALL that eating human flesh is OK. It's disgusting. It's a sin.

I was just offering up a discussion of an extreme example of how we determine what is a sin or not as defined in the Word.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Micah: 3. 1. And I said, Hear, I pray you, O heads of Jacob, and ye princes of the house of Israel; Is it not for you to know judgment? 2. Who hate the good, and love the evil; who pluck off their skin from off them, and their flesh from off their bones; 3. Who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron. 4. Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings. 5. Thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that make my people err, that bite with their teeth, and cry, Peace; and he that putteth not into their mouths, they even prepare war against him. 6. Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them. 7. Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God. 8. But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin. 9. Hear this, I pray you, ye heads of the house of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel, that abhor judgment, and pervert all equity. 10. They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity. 11. The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us. 12. Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.



***** God calls them and their actions evil.***** do you really want to argue that cannabalism is NOT a sin?

Sorry but I am just going to read my Bible and pray now.

To continue is beyond me.

Murder is a sin, in order to eat someone you would have to murder them.

Umm...no, I certainly believe that God would be furious with me if I ate a person...the poster I was addressing was asking where in the bible it said that was a sin...I myself don't need a verse to tell me it's wrong. I just seem to know it is.

 

[Ariel82]

Okay good to know we are all on the same page about that.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Yes, I see. Good to know. I didn't really believe he was saying what I thought he was saying anyway, even amid my confusion!
I think the difference might be that one of you believes the laws are still to be followed literally and the other sees the words are spirit and the Kingdom is not what to eat or not eat or how to prepare it, etc.

 

[KohenMatt]

Yes, I see. Good to know. I didn't really believe he was saying what I thought he was saying anyway, even amid my confusion!
I think the difference might be that one of you believes the laws are still to be followed literally and the other sees the words are spirit and the Kingdom is not what to eat or not eat or how to prepare it, etc.

My stance is that all of the law of the Old Testament is valid and applicable physically and/or spiritually. But obedience or disobedience to it has no effect on my salvation or standing before God. It is a willingness to be obedient to God and the Holy Spirit that should be the motivation for following the law.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

My stance is that all of the law of the Old Testament is valid and applicable physically and/or spiritually. But obedience or disobedience to it has no effect on my salvation or standing before God. It is a willingness to be obedient to God and the Holy Spirit that should be the motivation for following the law.

Okay, I see. So you take care to not wear certain articles of clothing with other articles of clothing and don't eat crabs and shrimp, circumcise your children, etc, etc. I understand. I know that the Mormons do this too. And seventh day Adventists do a lot of it too. So you aren't alone. Many people do it.

 

[KohenMatt]

Okay, I see. So you take care to not wear certain articles of clothing with other articles of clothing and don't eat crabs and shrimp, circumcise your children, etc, etc. I understand. I know that the Mormons do this too. And seventh day Adventists do a lot of it too. So you aren't alone. Many people do it.

I follow them as best as I can (I just posted about circumcision.) I think all of the 613 are applicable today and is something God wants all of His people to do.

 

[pottersclay]

Why is there so much effort given to something that cannot save you? Why is it that 80 percent of the threads have the o.t. law in them expounding on a law we ourselves can't keep? I guess some of us need a religious structure based on self effort to feel closer to God. One foot in the old testament and one foot in the new can bring a burdensome walk. No one can add to their status only God can add . The law is tireless in its demands please find your rest in Christ.

 

[disciplemike]

Why is there so much effort given to something that cannot save you? Why is it that 80 percent of the threads have the o.t. law in them expounding on a law we ourselves can't keep? I guess some of us need a religious structure based on self effort to feel closer to God. One foot in the old testament and one foot in the new can bring a burdensome walk. No one can add to their status only God can add . The law is tireless in its demands please find your rest in Christ.

I have been observing the dietary laws for about 3 years now. Not a problem. I would almost say I enjoy it, and my lab numbers are great!

 

[disciplemike]

My stance is that all of the law of the Old Testament is valid and applicable physically and/or spiritually. But obedience or disobedience to it has no effect on my salvation or standing before God. It is a willingness to be obedient to God and the Holy Spirit that should be the motivation for following the law.

I try to keep telling people this, and there IMMEDIATE, reflex response is "you can't be saved by keeping the law".