ONE BAPTISM - Ephesians 4:5

roaringkitten · Apr 15, 2016

"And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." Revelation 5:11-13

plaintalk · Apr 15, 2016

One Baptism #301
Yes, IMO you are certainly right about the blood of the Lamb. The question is when is it applied to us individually. IMO it is applied when by faith we obey the Lord. ACCORDING TO THE FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD THE FATHER, BY THE SANCTIFYING WORK OF THE SPIRIT, THAT YOU MAY OBEY JESUS CHRIST AND BE SPRINKLED WITH HIS BLOOD: MAY GRACE AND PEACE BE WITH YOU IN THE FULLEST MEASURE. (1 Peter 1: 2) NASB -----------LET US DRAW NEAR WITH A SINCERE HEART IN FULL ASSURANCE OF FAITH, HAVING OUR HEART SPRINKLED CLEAN FROM AN EVIL CONSCIENCE AND OUR BODIES WASHED WITH PURE WATER. (Heb. 10: 22) NASB When we by faith obey God through repentance and baptism our sins are blotted out, and washed away because we are at that time sprinkled with the blood of the Lamb. God bless.

roaringkitten · Apr 15, 2016

REVELATION 7:

9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

plaintalk · Apr 15, 2016

One baptism #289
I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, both Lord and Christ:
that He died for my sins and for the sins of all mankind, was buried and arose again the third day.
that He has commanded us all to repent and be baptized in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of sin.
that He pours out the gift of the Holy Spirit upon those who through faith obey Him.
I am not worthy to judge anyone; I have not earned or merited His grace; I am but an unprofitable servant.
God be merciful to me and to all on this forum who are seeking the way. God bless.

CEF · Apr 15, 2016

I'm glad that you were brave enough to ask this question! I have been wondering for awhile now, the Bible talks about water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit or they separate baptisms?

plaintalk · Apr 15, 2016

One baptism #305
CEF, IMO the Scripture certainly seem to indicate we are to be baptized in water in the name of Christ and that Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit, yet we read that their is one baptism. First, for me the solution is found in the one spiritual birth (John 3: 3, 5), one birth yet two elements, water and Spirit. If the same is true for the one baptism, problem solved. Second, Cornelius and his household were baptized with the Spirit and in water, in the name of Christ. Two baptisms? No, there is only one in our walk with the Lord. Third, Israel was baptized into Moses in the sea and in the cloud. Two elements? The cloud was much more than water vapor, it was the presence of the Lord. Just some thoughts for your consideration. God bless

plaintalk · Apr 15, 2016

One Baptism #284
"Your argument does not confirm the order of events in Acts 2 because their belief in Acts 2:37 was merely mental assent that they were guilty of crucifying their Messiah. They still needed to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ in order to become saved. Wow! It just amazes me how you can deny the crystal clear truth! "
Response:
Mental assent? You have got to be kidding! This wasn't mental assent, these people were pierced to the heart. They wanted to know what they should do! They were ready to obey! God bless.

resurrection33 · Apr 15, 2016

SeaBass said:

I see baptism as symbolic of what we go through in life as we are learning the way of the Lord. There is just one Lord, one way.

mailmandan · Apr 16, 2016

plaintalk said:

Even though I have already thoroughly refuted your arguments numerous times on this thread starting on page 8 with post #146 and ending with post #284 on page 15, I will be more than happy to address this post for the sake of others reading this thread.

Even though these Jews were pierced or cut to the heart, which means they were emotionally pierced through, psychologically pricked, emotionally stunned, at this point in Acts 2:37, their "belief" equated to "acknowledging they were guilty of crucifying the Messiah," but that is not saving belief/faith in Christ yet. This is why they still needed to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to become saved, as we see in Acts 11:17 - they received the Holy Spirit when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.. BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47). So we see they repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. God had granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life - vs. 18.

In Acts 16:30, the question was asked, "what must I do to be saved?" The answer is Acts 16:31 was not get water baptized and you will be saved or accomplish a list of works and you will be saved. The answer was, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.." They believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and received the Holy Spirit in Acts 11:17 and were saved (as we see in Acts 16:31) BEFORE water baptism (as we see in Acts 10:43-47).

*So don't confuse being "pierced to the heart and believing that you are guilty of crucifying the Messiah" (Acts 2:37) with believing in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9).

You continue to not understand that there is a deeper, more substantive aspect of belief/faith which is believing in Jesus Christ for eternal life, and you cannot distinguish between mere intellectual belief from a personal faith that is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. You still cannot grasp this DEEPER faith that trusts exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation. *This also explains why you have so much faith in "water and works."

eternally-gratefull · Apr 16, 2016

mailmandan said:

Even though I have already thoroughly refuted your arguments numerous times on this thread starting on page 8 with post #146 and ending with post #284 on page 15, I will be more than happy to address this post for the sake of others reading this thread.

Even though these Jews were pierced or cut to the heart, which means they were emotionally pierced through, psychologically pricked, emotionally stunned, at this point in Acts 2:37, their "belief" equated to "acknowledging they were guilty of crucifying the Messiah," but that is not saving belief/faith in Christ yet. This is why they still needed to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to become saved, as we see in Acts 11:17 - they received the Holy Spirit when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.. BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47). So we see they repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. God had granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life - vs. 18.

In Acts 16:30, the question was asked, "what must I do to be saved?" The answer is Acts 16:31 was not get water baptized and you will be saved or accomplish a list of works and you will be saved. The answer was, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.." They believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and received the Holy Spirit in Acts 11:17 and were saved (as we see in Acts 16:31) BEFORE water baptism (as we see in Acts 10:43-47).

*So don't confuse being "pierced to the heart and believing that you are guilty of crucifying the Messiah" (Acts 2:37) with believing in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9).

You continue to not understand that there is a deeper, more substantive aspect of belief/faith which is believing in Jesus Christ for eternal life, and you cannot distinguish between mere intellectual belief from a personal faith that is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. You still cannot grasp this DEEPER faith that trusts exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation. *This also explains why you have so much faith in "water and works."

Amen Bro. All we can do is try to teach others Some will not hear,. Keep preaching the word..

plaintalk · Apr 16, 2016

One baptism #309
“In Acts 16:30, the question was asked, "what must I do to be saved?" The answer is Acts 16:31 was notget water baptized and you will be saved or accomplish a list of works and you will be saved. The answer was, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.." They believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and received the Holy Spirit in Acts 11:17 and were saved (as we see in Acts 16:31) BEFOREwater baptism (as we see in Acts 10:43-47).”

Response:
Jesus said. “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved.” (Mark 16: 16) Was He wrong?
In Acts 16: 30 the question is asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” Does the answer, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household,” contradict what Jesus said?
(1) They heard the word of the Lord (v. 32) The passage does not say they were saved immediately, that is your assumption.
(2) The jailer washed their wounds that very hour. Was that an act of repentance? Does it show some urgency?
(3) Immediately, he and his household were baptized. Urgency? Yes!
(4) He gave them something to eat and rejoiced greatly. Why did they rejoice after baptism and not after hearing the word? Obviously they were saved when they believed and were baptized.
(5) The record concludes (v. 34) “Having believed in God.” It would appear that “believing in the Lord Jesus” comprehends belief, repentance and baptism.

The order of events you give contradicts the statement of our Lord in Mark 16: 16 and is not only incorrect but misleading to those who might read it. Those that receive the word are baptized (Acts 2: 41) and they are saved by a perfected faith, an obedient faith. Nothing is said about receiving the Spirit but we can be assured that they did because God promised that those who repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2: 38, 39)

Salvation is in Christ Jesus, (2 Tim. 2: 10), and we are baptized into Christ. (Gal. 3: 26, 27) The message is clear and consistent for those who have eyes to see. God bless

plaintalk · Apr 16, 2016

One baptism #309
“In Acts 16:30, the question was asked, "what must I do to be saved?" The answer is Acts 16:31 was notget water baptized and you will be saved or accomplish a list of works and you will be saved. The answer was, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.." They believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and received the Holy Spirit in Acts 11:17 and were saved (as we see in Acts 16:31) BEFOREwater baptism (as we see in Acts 10:43-47).”
Response:
How and when was Cornelius and his household saved?
(1) You say they were saved when they received the Holy Spirit (Acts 11: 17) before water baptism. However the Scriptures tell us, “and he (Peter) shall speak words to you, by which you will be saved.”
(2) You attribute salvation to the reception of the Holy Spirit, the Scriptures attribute salvation to the words that Peter spoke.
(3) Peter spoke twice;(Acts 10: 34- 44), the first time he proclaimed the gospel; the second time (Acts 10: 46-48), he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
(4) We all, including Cornelius, are saved the same way, by the grace of God. (Acts 15: 11)
(5) The only difference is that the order of events were changed so that the reception of the Holy Spirit would show the Jewish Christian that Gentiles were acceptable to God. The order of events were not changed to bring in a different way of salvation.
(6) The order of evens for all, is outlined in Acts 2. Cornelius was an exception.
(7) He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved. This applies to Cornelius and to all men.
(8) Salvation is in Christ; all men, including Cornelius, are baptized into Christ.
(9) The hearts of Cornelius and his household were cleansed by faith (Acts 15: 9) when they were by faith baptized into Christ. (Acts 22: 16)
God bless.

mailmandan · Apr 17, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

Amen brother! For the sake of those who do not have ears that are hard of hearing and who have not closed their eyes to the truth, I continue to preach the word.

mailmandan · Apr 17, 2016

plaintalk said:

Amen and again I say, AMEN! These verses are crystal clear, for those who have eyes to see.

No. He was not wrong, yet if he who believes will be saved (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,16) then he who believes and is baptized will be saved as well. *He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. Did Jesus say, "whoever is not baptized will be condemned?" NO. It's flawed hermeneutics to build doctrine on one half of one verse while ignoring the second half of the verse and these other 9 verses. Also, baptism is not included in BELIEVES, hence the AND that separates believes AND is baptized in Mark 16:16. "Believes in Him" is established before water baptism.

John 3:15 - so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. Was He wrong? *What happened to baptism?

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Was He wrong? *What happened to baptism?

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned.. Was He wrong? *What happened to baptism?

John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Was He wrong? *What happened to baptism?

John 6:29 - Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent." Was He wrong? *What happened to baptism?

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. Was He wrong? *What happened to baptism?

John 6:47 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. Was he wrong? *What happened to baptism?

John 11:25 - Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live." Was He wrong? *What happened to baptism?

John 11:26 - And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this? Was He wrong? *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

*John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

No, because he who believes and is baptized is general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized and Jesus made it clear that it's the lack of belief that causes condemnation and not the lack of baptism (Mark 16:16(b); John 3:18). Forcing baptism to be absolutely necessary for salvation contradicts Paul's statement in Acts 16:31. He said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved" *and did not include baptism* (which is in perfect harmony with what Jesus said in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26 and what Peter said in Acts 10:43.

They were saved immediately upon believing on the Lord Jesus Christ before they were water baptized, just as Cornelius and his household were saved immediately upon believing on the Lord Jesus Christ as well, as we see in Acts 11:17,18 before they were water baptized (Acts 10:43-47). Neither passage says they were not saved until after they were water baptized.

Repentance/faith/salvation precedes water baptism. I see no urgency, just availability to get baptized that hour.

No urgency, just availability to get baptized immediately within that very hour.

Rejoicing before or after baptism proves nothing of the necessity of baptism for salvation. When you are busy washing stripes and baptizing converts, why not wait until afterwards? Obviously, they were saved when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ as Paul said in Acts 16:31. Paul did not say believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and get baptized and you will be saved. We also see in Acts 11:17 (also see Acts 10:45) that Cornelius and his household received the gift of the Holy Spirit when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) which means they were saved at that very moment according to the promise of what Paul said in Acts 16:31 and this all happened BEFORE they received water baptism (Acts 10:43-47).

You are reading your own preconceived ideas into these passages of scripture. "Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ" includes repentance because it already took place when they changed their minds and chose to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and become saved. Just as we see in Acts 11:17-18 (received the Holy Spirit when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ/repentance unto life) yet they were not yet water baptized (Acts 10:43-47) so believing in the Lord Jesus Christ precedes and does not include water baptism. *Also, those who receive the gift of the Holy Spirit are not still lost in their sins.

Actually, just the opposite is true, as you continue to isolate the first half of Mark 16:16 and ignore the rest of the verse, thus forcing Jesus to say that whoever is not water baptized will be condemned, (which He never said) and your biased interpretation is also in contradiction to the words of Jesus in Mark 16:16(b); John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26. *You fail to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your biased conclusion.

That's not what Peter said in Acts 2:41. That is your "added" commentary, based on your confusion from James 2:22. Then those who gladly received his word (through repentance/faith/all who believed - vs. 44) were "afterwards" baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. Acts 4:4 - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand. Acts 5:14 - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women.

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis. Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

*Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47 - this is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So the only logical conclusion when *properly harmonizing scripture with scripture* is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Paul clearly said that we are sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (.) PERIOD End of sentence and thought on how we become children of God. Next sentence, next thought - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourselves with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is "enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification."

Now for the word "enduo" (put on). This word also appears in Romans 13:14 where we read, "But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill it's lusts." This exhortation is not to a sinner, telling him to be baptized to "put on" Christ, but it is written to Christians. Evidently then, baptism is not the only way to "put on" Christ. To "put on" Christ is to conform to Him, imitate Him. So it is in baptism; we "put on" Christ, conforming to Him in the ordinance that declares Him to be our Savior. So if we must "put on" Christ to be saved through water baptism, apparently we are not saved yet. We must also "put on" Christ by making no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts (Romans 13:14). Right? Let's be consistent.

Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean they were literally water baptized into the body of Moses. Believers are not water baptized into the body of Christ either, but we are Spirit baptized into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13), which you confuse with water baptism. *You need to learn how to rightly divide the word of truth. *But first you need to repent and believe the gospel.

mailmandan · Apr 17, 2016

plaintalk said:

Amen! Thank you for repeating my crystal clear statement again for those who have ears to hear and have not closed their eyes to the truth.

Amen! Before they were water baptized, they already "received" the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:45-47; 11:17). They were clearly saved.

Romans 8:9 - But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. If one has the Holy Spirit they "belong" to Christ. To belong to Christ does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of Cornelius and his household before they were water baptized.

Galatians 4:6 - Because they are sons, God sent the Holy Spirit into their heart's whereby they can now rightly refer to God as "Abba! Father!" This could only describe the condition of one who is a saved believer - such was the case of Cornelius and his household before they were water baptized.

1 John 4:13 - Because they had received the gift of the Holy Spirit, they abided in God and God abided in them. To abide in God and to have God abide in you does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of Cornelius and his household before they were water baptized.

Peter spoke these words by which he and his household will be saved. *Acts 10:43 - ..whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.

The Bible attributes the reception of the Holy Spirit only for those who are saved. *Please show me where the Bible says lost unbelievers receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Peter spokes the words in Acts 10:43 that whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. Cornelius and his household believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were saved BEFORE they were water baptized (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9).

In Acts 10:34-35, Peter prefaced his message with a frank admission. Up to now he had believed that God's favor was limited to the nation of Israel. Now he realized that God did not respect a man's person because of his nationality. "Fearing God and working righteousness" is the result of an already existing faith. We are not saved by works of righteousness (Titus 3:5), but works in connection with salvation are always the result of, not the condition of, receiving salvation. These verses gives a description of a believer (Christian), not a prerequisite for salvation. *You need to be careful not to confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture. The gospel is not salvation by works. The gospel is not baptized or condemned. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). In Acts 15:7, Peter said ..hear the word of the gospel and BELIEVE. *When will you BELIEVE?

By grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Acts 15:9 - ..hearts are purified by faith.

The order of events were not changed.

That biased argument is merely a desperate attempt to "get around" the truth. Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony. Speaking in tongues showed the Jewish believers that the Gentiles had received the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:45-47), were acceptable to God AND were saved. *Lost unbelievers have not received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The order of events for all is outlined in many passages of scripture, but you are biased to Acts 2:38 because it mentions baptism, even though in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis. Cornelius was not an exception and the order of events is outlined for all in (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9). *Your biased interpretation of Acts 2:38 does not negate these passages of scripture.

*Notice how you only quoted the first half of the verse. Jesus is speaking of general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized but He clarifies the first clause with, "but he who does not believe will be condemned." *Jesus also connects receiving eternal life with BELIEVES IN HIM and not baptism in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,25, but you simply ignore those verses. Cornelius and his household were saved then they believed in Him/believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and received the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:43-46; 11:17) BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47). *To reject this crystal clear truth is to be dishonest.

All men, including Cornelius, are Spirit baptized into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 1:13), not water baptized into the body of Christ. Water baptism is the picture, not the reality and is in regards to our identification in Christ, just as the Israelites were not water baptized into the body of Moses, but in regards to their identification in Moses (1 Corinthians 10:2).

Their hearts were cleansed by faith(.) This means faith in Christ. Their hearts were cleansed the moment that they placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ for salvation BEFORE they were water baptized.

Peter did not say their hearts were cleansed by faith when they were baptized. That is your "added" commentary. He simply said cleansing their hearts by faith, not by baptism in Acts 15:9. You don't seem to understand the difference between faith and baptism. Prior to my conversion, I didn't really understand the difference either. While still an unbeliever, I erroneously thought that faith "is" baptism, faith "is" multiple acts of obedience, faith "is" works, which is completely false! I see that Acts 22:16 remains a major stumbling block for you. Baptism here pictures the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ, but it does not literally wash away our sins, contrary to your conclusion. In Acts 10:43, receiving remission of sins is connected with "believes in Him" and not with baptism (Acts 10:43-47).

As I already explained to you, in Acts 9, the Savior told Ananias that Paul "is a chosen vessel unto Me" (v. 15), although the apostle had not yet been baptized. Before Paul was baptized, Christ had already commissioned him to "bear [His] name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel" (Acts 9:15); such a commission is not God’s portion for one still lost and under divine wrath. Before Paul’s baptism, Christ had set him aside as one who would "suffer for His name’s sake" (9:16). Can one who is a child of the devil, as all the lost are (Ephesians 2:1-3, John 8:44), really suffer for Christ’s sake? NO. God accepted Paul’s prayers before his baptism (Acts 9:11). People in the church of Christ teach that God does not hear an unsaved man's prayer, quoting in this regard John 9:31 - "We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will." Well, Paul was a worshipper of God, calling Christ "Lord" and then setting out to do His will. All of these things characterized Paul before he was baptized. So, Paul had already believed in Christ when Ananias came to pray for him to receive his sight (Acts 9:17). It also should be noted that Paul at the time when Ananias prayed for him to receive his sight, he was filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17)--this was before he was water baptized (Acts 9:18). Verse 17 connects his being filled with the Spirit with the receiving of his sight. We know that he received his sight prior to his baptism.

*No scripture is to be interpretated in isololation from the totality of scripture. Practically speaking, a singular and obscure verse is to be subservient to to multiple and clear verses, and not vice versa. For instance, if we find a verse that "on the surface" seems to teach that baptism is required for salvation or that we are saved by works, but then have a multitude of other verses that teach otherwise, are we to allow the odd verse to alter the clear meaning of the many? NO. We are to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching the proper conclusion.

I will continue to pray for the blinders to be removed and the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God will shine unto you and that you will come to repent and believe the gospel.

mailmandan · Apr 17, 2016

CEF said:

In Matthew 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Again, in Acts 1:5, we read - for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. *TWO SEPARATE BAPTISMS.

By saying ONE baptism in Ephesians 4:5, Paul did not mean that there is only one baptism that exists such as water baptism but not Spirit baptism or Spirit baptism but not water baptism and he also did not mean that water baptism and Spirit baptism together make up ONE baptism either.

*There is only ONE baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is SPIRIT baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37 for the word drink(s). The two elements found in the new birth (John 3:5) are living water and the Spirit (Who is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing).

Plain ordinary H20 (water baptism) has no power to literally cleanse our heart from sin or mystically cause us to become born again. John 3:5 fits perfectly with John 4:10,14; 7:37-39. *Jesus connects this water with eternal life and living water is not water baptism.

Notice in Acts 10:43 that Peter said that whoever believes in Him will receive the remission of sins. Reading further, we see that Cornelius and his household received the gift of the Holy Spirit (and were speaking in tongues) in verse 45 & 46. So Cornelius and his household were baptized with the Holy Spirit BEFORE they received water baptism AFTERWARDS in verse 48. *Notice in verse 47 - "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" *TWO SEPARATE BAPTISMS.

Notice in Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" *This was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47).

*Please beware of certain people on Christian Chat who teach salvation by works (with a heavy emphasis on water baptism) and confuse these TWO SEPARATE BAPTISMS.

Yet · Jul 28, 2016

Jesus' 'gospel of the kingdom', Mat. 4:23. was to the jews. The old covenant was being replaced by the new. A strong break from the old had to be with much fan fare and outward demonstration. Jews were commanded to show works meet for repentance( changing their position), Matt.3:8. Fruits of repentance. Fruits:gr: karpos: deeds, activity...works.
Baptism is a visible work.

Paul came with 'my gospel', to he gentiles, Romans 2:16, 16:25, and 2Tim.2:8 'The gospel of the grace of God' was Paul's gospel, Acts 20:24.

Acts 15:11 was a transitional point again for the jews, 'But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.'

So from this, it seems water baptism, a work, was made void by Paul's gospel from Acts 15 on was made void and null. By faith alone are we spiritually baptised into Christ through grace. Ephesians 2:8-9
Im still thinking on this so easy on the 'casting of stones'. Smile.

God4me · Jul 28, 2016

SeaBass said:

Hebrews 6: 1--2, Talks about six fundamentals of the Church, And Paul mentions the doctrine of "Baptisms" plural.
And that's because there are Three Christian baptisms.

The "One baptism", In Eph 4: 5. Is the "Rebirth", The Holy Spirit baptising us into the body of Christ, 1 Cor 12: 13.

The other two Christian baptisms are, [Baptism in the Holy Ghost, with the Biblical evidence of speaking in tongues].
Acts 1: 1--5. Acts 2: 1--4.
This is a separate experience to the rebirth, Acts 8: 14--17. The disciples were already born again and baptised in water, But hadn't been baptised in the Holy Ghost until the Apostles laid hands on them, v17

Then there is the Baptism in water, which is by total immersion, Acts 8: 36--39.
The water baptism and the baptism in the Holy Ghost, are not greater than the baptism into the body of Christ, [The rebirth] As only the rebirth saves us.
If you read Eph 4: 4-5, it says, "One body, one Spirit, one Lord and one faith, and the only way into the body of Christ, and into the faith, is through the rebirth.
So, The "One baptism", Is the rebirth.

God4me · Jul 28, 2016

CEF said:

Hebrews 6: 1--2, Talks about six fundamentals of the Church, And Paul mentions the doctrine of "Baptisms" plural.
And that's because there are Three Christian baptisms.

The "One baptism", In Eph 4: 5. Is the "Rebirth", The Holy Spirit baptising us into the body of Christ, 1 Cor 12: 13.

The other two Christian baptisms are, [Baptism in the Holy Ghost, with the Biblical evidence of speaking in tongues].
Acts 1: 1--5. Acts 2: 1--4.
This is a separate experience to the rebirth, Acts 8: 14--17. The disciples were already born again and baptised in water, But hadn't been baptised in the Holy Ghost until the Apostles laid hands on them, v17

Then there is the Baptism in water, which is by total immersion, Acts 8: 36--39.
The water baptism and the baptism in the Holy Ghost, are not greater than the baptism into the body of Christ, [The rebirth] As only the rebirth saves us.
If you read Eph 4: 4-5, it says, "One body, one Spirit, one Lord and one faith, and the only way into the body of Christ, and into the faith, is through the rebirth.
So, The "One baptism", Is the rebirth.

plaintalk · Aug 5, 2016

To "YET":

Thank you, for your response; Not to many stones will be cast by me; I am certainly not without sin and certainly not infallible. If I sound that way, I apologize. With that said, I hope to respectfully share some questions and some disagreement.
You wrote: "Jesus' 'gospel of the kingdom', Mat. 4:23. was to the jews". Response: [SUP]14 [/SUP]This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. (Matt. 24: 14) Clearly, this verse tells us that the “gospel of the kingdom” was not just to the Jews, it was for the whole world, to all the nations and it was to last until the end of time. “Yet” is correct, IMO, in that the transition from the old covenant to the new covenant involved a transition from a Law- works system into a grace- faith. This change was brought about by numerous passages in the New Testament telling us of the accomplishment of faith. Someone has said there are 152 examples; I can’t vouch for that number, as I have not counted them, but they are numerous. What is notable, however, is that the Scriptures never say that we are cleansed, justified, saved or receive eternal life by “faith alone.” This should give pause to all of us and especially those of the ‘faith alone” agenda.

You wrote: "Jews were commanded to show works meet for repentance( changing their position), Matt.3:8. Fruits of repentance. Fruits:gr: karpos: deeds, activity...works. Response: Isn’t this true for all of us? We were created by God in Christ for good works. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His workmanship,created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. (Eph. 2: 10)

You wrote: "Baptism is a visible work." Response: Quite right. Faith works! Did not Abraham, the father of the faithful work by faith? (Heb. 11: 8, 9, 17) Was not his faith approved by God when he obeyed by offering up Isaac? (Gen. 22: 12) Was not the blessing repeated a second time when he obeyed? (Gen. 22: 15-18) Was not his faith perfected, Gen. 15: 6 fulfilled, he was justified by works when he offered up Isaac? How can this be? His works were works of faith not performance; he was justified by faith when he obeyed.

Yes, baptism is a work of faith. (1 Thess. 1: 3) One cannot validly be baptized in the name of Christ unless he believes with all his heart that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. (Acts 8: 37, 38) Baptism is a work of faith, a work of God. Obedience is not meritorious in God’s view, it is what a servant should do. When we have done all that God commands we are still unprofitable servants. (Luke 17: 10)

You wrote: "Paul came with 'my gospel', to he gentiles, Romans 2:16, 16:25, and 2Tim.2:8 'The gospel of the grace of God' was Paul's gospel, Acts 20:24. Response: There is only one gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul went to great length to show that his gospel was the same gospel that was preached by the other apostles. (Gal. 1: 6-2: 10)
Acts 15:11 was a transitional point again for the Jews, 'But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.'" Response: In my opinion this is not correct. We are all saved by the grace of God through faith that works in love. (Gal. 5: 6) Acts 15: 8 is referring to Cornelius a Gentile. He and his family received the baptism with the Spirit and were commanded by Peter to be baptized in water in the name of Christ. When we examine the conversion of Cornelius and his household we find that they did what we all do with the exception of speaking in tongues. They heard the message, they believed, they were baptized in the Spirit, they repented and they were baptized in water in the name of Christ.

You wrote:"So from this, it seems water baptism, a work, was made void by Paul's gospel from Acts 15 on was made void and null. By faith alone are we spiritually baptised into Christ through grace. Ephesians 2:8-9" Response: Sorry to say, but we have more fiction. Yes, baptism is a work, but it is a “work of faith.” IMO that places it in the “faith category”, not the “works without faith” category. The reason Abraham was justified by his works in conjunction with his faith is that his works were “by faith.” (Heb. 11: 8, 9, 17) When Jesus initiated baptism in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, it was for “all the nations” (Matt. 28: 18-20), “to all creation.” (Mark 16: 15, 16) And when it was first carried out, the promise was to Jew and Gentile, as many as God shall call. There doesn’t appear to be any thought that it would be voided a few years later. God bless.

ONE BAPTISM - Ephesians 4:5

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