the truth in the words of paul...

[PilgrimPassingThru]

amen and amen. thank you muches for that scripture, I'm not surprised anymore you always seem to hit on my personal studies and add some new tidbit that I missed. Just began studying a thought about baptism by water, and the flood. I cant put my finger on it but something is there that is of value. I'm sure this will tie in lol


always and always a blessing sis. Bless you right back

Well, you sort of just did that for me really, thats why I was looking at what you were saying again, then started underlining to be clear (as that verse come to mind) so thank you (you are always a blessing little bro)

Peace

 

[followjesus]

Well, you sort of just did that for me really, thats why I was looking at what you were saying again, then started underlining to be clear (as that verse come to mind) so thank you (you are always a blessing little bro)

Peace

little things like that are such confirmation of the Lord and His people through the spirit we share, and really spur a lot of knowledge and direction in study......always blessed by your words

 

[John146]

if we have the faith of Jesus, we all would be raising the dead and moving mountains into the sea, haling the sick. we cant on one hand say I have the faith that Jesus has, and then our lives show no faith at all. we are justified by Faith IN Christ in my humble opinion. we believe in Jesus believe that He is who He says he is, and because we believe that, we follow him, hes the Lord, we follow. if we have been imputed with His righteousness, then our works will show it.


faith is what is misunderstood, its not an inner thought, it is belief that moves us to action. if I have faith that Jesus is the Lord, and I see Him say " do this" I will do it if I believe that He is the Lord. sincerity of faith in Jesus works for me, I know who He is and because I do, I follow Him, Hes my Lord and what servant will ignore his Lord? none that is true. true faith is belief in action the 2 cant be separated, though belief has to be first, and that produces the action. if my action comes from the Lords word it cannot fail.

I'm not trying to argue with you, either way I believe faith will lead to action, if not it is just a thought of no profit or a fantasy. and I also do find value in having the same faith OF Jesus, that is definitely my goal in life. God bless thanks for taking the time to explain what you meant I appreciate that.

I am justified by the faith of Christ and Christ's faith is shown by the works of the cross. It's about him. Zero about me. His works. His faith. If you want to make this thing about yourself, then go right ahead. You are not in agreement with the word of God. Stick with your niv. It agrees more with your works based theology.

 

[1LonelyKnight]

Agreed, but there is a deeper understanding here for those who want meat and not just milk.

Genesis 5
1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

The word begat here is teaching us that Seth was created through Adam's seed, a part of Adam. Jesus was begotten through the seed of God which was placed in Mary's womb. That point's us back to Genesis 3:15 to the promised seed.

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

You see that seed is of the woman. Wait, but the woman does not carry the seed. Man has the seed. This is the first indication of the virgin birth and that this seed was going to be placed by God. The one born of the woman would be from the seed of God, the only begotten.

The seed of the woman is the male offspring. The passage speaks not of the physical impregnation or physical birth but of a spiritual rebirth (born from above) by the seed of the Word.

See the parable of the sower and the seeds ...

See also - flesh gives birth to flesh But spirit gives birth to spirit ... You must be born again

 

[followjesus]

I am justified by the faith of Christ and Christ's faith is shown by the works of the cross. It's about him. Zero about me. His works. His faith. If you want to make this thing about yourself, then go right ahead. You are not in agreement with the word of God. Stick with your niv. It agrees more with your works based theology.[/QUOTE
]


naw, it is about Jesus for those who hear him and follow, if its about Jesus, we will follow Him. He is our life. to follow the one saying follow me, isn't making anything about me lol. its Jesus who tells us to obey His commands. so the twisting really doesn't affect me, nor do accusations that following Jesus is somehow making it about me. actually following him requires us to lay down ourself, follow His will. if I'm making it about me, id say I have no obligation to honor the One who suffered and died for me, to give me a new life free from self and filled with Him. its self that opposes His will, not self that follows Him. you got things backwards. But listen, press forward in your faith, and simply take His word for things even though he is telling you what to do, how to live....HE knows best and will never Lead you astray. learn from Jesus

 

[1LonelyKnight]

I am justified by the faith of Christ and Christ's faith is shown by the works of the cross. It's about him. Zero about me. His works. His faith. If you want to make this thing about yourself, then go right ahead. You are not in agreement with the word of God. Stick with your niv. It agrees more with your works based theology.

Christ had Faith that false religion that creates and promotes illegitimacy (in it's many forms) is evil and can be overcome by living, teaching and suffering for - The Truth of The WAY.

The passage continues on to say that it is BELIEF in this that saves. Faith OF Jesus could be rendered Faith FROM Jesus in the KJV. The NIV (which I do not promote in matters of doctrine) interprets then translates that entire passage to - Faith IN Jesus. In this case it can be acceptable, but in EVERY case has to be exegetically / hermeneutically checked and verified.

 

[followjesus]

sometimes if we check and recheck and recheck, we end up finding words that make us think its not saying whats there. Satan has no power to change what God has said, His way is to change our minds about what God has said

 

[John146]

In this case it can be acceptable, but in EVERY case has to be exegetically / hermeneutically checked and verified.

Verified? By who? This would make you or whoever is the one "verifying" the final authority on what God has said. No thanks. I take every word as to be from God. I do not need to verify that, just believe.

 

[John146]

I am justified by the faith of Christ and Christ's faith is shown by the works of the cross. It's about him. Zero about me. His works. His faith. If you want to make this thing about yourself, then go right ahead. You are not in agreement with the word of God. Stick with your niv. It agrees more with your works based theology.[/QUOTE
]


naw, it is about Jesus for those who hear him and follow, if its about Jesus, we will follow Him. He is our life. to follow the one saying follow me, isn't making anything about me lol. its Jesus who tells us to obey His commands. so the twisting really doesn't affect me, nor do accusations that following Jesus is somehow making it about me. actually following him requires us to lay down ourself, follow His will. if I'm making it about me, id say I have no obligation to honor the One who suffered and died for me, to give me a new life free from self and filled with Him. its self that opposes His will, not self that follows Him. you got things backwards. But listen, press forward in your faith, and simply take His word for things even though he is telling you what to do, how to live....HE knows best and will never Lead you astray. learn from Jesus

You do believe that ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, don't you? All Scripture is from the Lord, so which ones should I follow? He commanded to build an ark. Should I build an ark? He commanded to sacrifice your only son. Should I do that? The Lord commanded to offer up animal sacrifices. Should I do that? He commanded to go to Nineveh and cry against it. Should I do that? The Lord commanded to resist not evil. What about that?

Do you understand dispensations and rightly dividing the word of truth? Do you understand that most of the Bible is written to the Jews and not the body of Christ, the church? Do you understand when Jesus became flesh, no one His disciples did not understand the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection? Do you understand that His teachings during His earthly ministry was preparing the Jews for the kingdom promised for them? Do you understand Paul's epistles are in the Bible because the Jews rejected their Messiah as a whole and so their kingdom has been suspended until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in?

You say to follow Jesus' teachings...which ones? The ones you pick out? The ones given to Noan or Abraham or Moses or Peter or Paul? Though God's character never changes, the way He deals with man does change based upon their response to His word. All the Bible is written for you, but not all of it is written to you. Rightly dividing the word of truth is making sure you're listening to the right words of the Bible in order to be right in doctrine.

 

[Grace777x70]

You do believe that ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, don't you? All Scripture is from the Lord, so which ones should I follow? He commanded to build an ark. Should I build an ark? He commanded to sacrifice your only son. Should I do that? The Lord commanded to offer up animal sacrifices. Should I do that? He commanded to go to Nineveh and cry against it. Should I do that? The Lord commanded to resist not evil. What about that?

Do you understand dispensations and rightly dividing the word of truth? Do you understand that most of the Bible is written to the Jews and not the body of Christ, the church? Do you understand when Jesus became flesh, no one His disciples did not understand the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection? Do you understand that His teachings during His earthly ministry was preparing the Jews for the kingdom promised for them? Do you understand Paul's epistles are in the Bible because the Jews rejected their Messiah as a whole and so their kingdom has been suspended until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in?

You say to follow Jesus' teachings...which ones? The ones you pick out? The ones given to Noan or Abraham or Moses or Peter or Paul? Though God's character never changes, the way He deals with man does change based upon their response to His word. All the Bible is written for you, but not all of it is written to you. Rightly dividing the word of truth is making sure you're listening to the right words of the Bible in order to be right in doctrine.

Amen...not understanding how to rightly divide the scriptures is where we mix up the covenants which cause strange doctrines. We must filter all scripture through the finished work of Christ after the cross and resurrection of Jesus.

All the Bible is written for you, but not all of it is written to you. Don't take someone else's medicine.

 

[followjesus]

Amen...not understanding how to rightly divide the scriptures is where we mix up the covenants which cause strange doctrines. We must filter all scripture through the finished work of Christ after the cross and resurrection of Jesus.

All the Bible is written for you, but not all of it is written to you. Don't take someone else's medicine.

the right division = Jesus is Lord obey Him......Hes not commanding anyone to build an arc lol have you guys ever hear Jesus? He commands His disciples, makes all of His teachings realllllly clear. as I thought I had been clear we follow Jesus. if he tells us to build an arc then yeah wed build it. His command is to lay down ownership of yourself, and follow Him as the Lord.


proper division Jesus first = eternal Life. or arithmetic is 1 + 1 = 2. the Lord is the math teacher, to "properly divide" is to learn His math......

 

[followjesus]

You do believe that ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, don't you? All Scripture is from the Lord, so which ones should I follow? He commanded to build an ark. Should I build an ark? He commanded to sacrifice your only son. Should I do that? The Lord commanded to offer up animal sacrifices. Should I do that? He commanded to go to Nineveh and cry against it. Should I do that? The Lord commanded to resist not evil. What about that?

Do you understand dispensations and rightly dividing the word of truth? Do you understand that most of the Bible is written to the Jews and not the body of Christ, the church? Do you understand when Jesus became flesh, no one His disciples did not understand the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection? Do you understand that His teachings during His earthly ministry was preparing the Jews for the kingdom promised for them? Do you understand Paul's epistles are in the Bible because the Jews rejected their Messiah as a whole and so their kingdom has been suspended until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in?

You say to follow Jesus' teachings...which ones? The ones you pick out? The ones given to Noan or Abraham or Moses or Peter or Paul? Though God's character never changes, the way He deals with man does change based upon their response to His word. All the Bible is written for you, but not all of it is written to you. Rightly dividing the word of truth is making sure you're listening to the right words of the Bible in order to be right in doctrine.

you do believe that Jesus is Lord don't you? that He alone is Gods son who God says clearly Listen to JESUS. so if he was saying build an arc, then wed be building, maybe learn that the entire bible IS God breathed and good for rebuke and correction, and realize that it all is about Jesus the Son of God? and what it says is "Obey Jesus" there is an order in scripture. Jesus the King ALWAYS comes first and is the foundation of EVERYTHING in Gods word. I don't really understand how a blind person can not understand Gods word is saying " accept Jesus as SAVIOR AND LORD. if HE alone is LORD then HE alone is LORD of all. if God says clearly obey Jesus, its Just not accepting who He is that troubles people so much. I'm clear that He is Lord.


when God says follow this disciple or that one......I will, but I already understand WHO the KING is. if We are part of His KINGDOM, the KING RULES. its about Jesus, always has been and forever will be. He is not a scapegoat that was used to simply suffer for our sins, when you accept His sacrifice, that comes with HE IS THE LORD. without His sacrifice you would be dead without hope. what do you guys possibly have an issue with what He clearly says to do? He died for you he suffered for YOU, He said clearly follow me and live.........if you all take His sacrifice, He is your Lord, LORD of you. you have zero without Jesus life, teachings, death and resurrection. He is the Only way, follow Jesus. as far as scripture goes, you will NEVER find any scripture in the bible that says don't listen to Jesus, you will find many saying Listen to him, obey Him, learn from Him........


show me 1 scripture that excludes His authoprity over all, show me 1 scripture that says " you don't NEED to accept Him as Lord and obey His word? already before you look, there isn't 1 scripture that says don't follow Jesus. blindness can be cured by accepting His word, He is right, theology is wrong, He is right, the gog is wrong. you may see confess Him as Lord and be saved but you have to understand what that says, He is your Lord and King IF you belong to the KINGDOM of God, hear the kings commands, He is above you in every way what He says is right and true and eternally relevant to all mankind.

 

[1LonelyKnight]

Verified? By who? This would make you or whoever is the one "verifying" the final authority on what God has said. No thanks. I take every word as to be from God. I do not need to verify that, just believe.

Scripture reveals itself when approached by hermeneutics. When man sets out to create a new 'version' of scripture, the roots of that scripture, the background of the translators and their associations along with their interpretive and translating approach need to be verified. The root documents and root languages are a part of the hermeneutical approach to verifying. Who "authored" and who "authorized" these new versions?

 

[followjesus]

Scripture reveals itself when approached by hermeneutics. When man sets out to create a new 'version' of scripture, the roots of that scripture, the background of the translators and their associations along with their interpretive and translating approach need to be verified. The root documents and root languages are a part of the hermeneutical approach to verifying. Who "authored" and who "authorized" these new versions?

I think one of the reasons I love my original niv is in the prologue, the testimony of all of the prayer, the roots, and the many denominational participations give me confidence that God authorized its translation. without different translations that carry the message, a lot of folks simply couldn't grasp what is written. I Love niv, and Kjv both But I have always trusted God to get His word to us in words we understand and were all different in that way. I feel as long as the message is accurate a word contention here and there , God is able to reconcile in our hearts and minds....only my personal belief though.

 

[1LonelyKnight]

I think one of the reasons I love my original niv is in the prologue, the testimony of all of the prayer, the roots, and the many denominational participations give me confidence that God authorized its translation. without different translations that carry the message, a lot of folks simply couldn't grasp what is written. I Love niv, and Kjv both But I have always trusted God to get His word to us in words we understand and were all different in that way. I feel as long as the message is accurate a word contention here and there , God is able to reconcile in our hearts and minds....only my personal belief though.

I believe you are teaching the right gospel and support and commend you in that. When it comes to the NIV I have stated the case and any purpose the NIV can be used for. I encourage you to look further into the history and doctrinal issues presented by the NIV. The changes are subtle but critical because a few word changes in the hands of the right (wrong) preacher become amplified into heresy. One cannot teach from the NIV other than by way of comparison. For that matter when we teach from the KJV we must also Look to the original languages and use sound hermeneutical principles. Look through some of the "which Bible" or KJV vs NIV threads on here or online in general. It deserves a little of your time to reprove this work and to maintain your authority in teaching/sharing/witnessing.
Peace ...

 

[John146]

I think one of the reasons I love my original niv is in the prologue, the testimony of all of the prayer, the roots, and the many denominational participations give me confidence that God authorized its translation. without different translations that carry the message, a lot of folks simply couldn't grasp what is written. I Love niv, and Kjv both But I have always trusted God to get His word to us in words we understand and were all different in that way. I feel as long as the message is accurate a word contention here and there , God is able to reconcile in our hearts and minds....only my personal belief though.

Are you kidding me? The KJV has produced more fruit than all the other versions combined, by far, it's not even close. How does God feel about different versions that say different things and have different messages? Is God the author of confusion? Is it confusing to have many so called Bibles which contain different words and meanings? What message is that sending the world? God despises those who tamper with His word. Anyone can totally understand the KJV. God's word is not about watering it down and making it "easier to read" because of laziness to study. We're talking about a book that should not be like any other...the word of God! It should be different. It should provoke study. I glory in the fact that I don't understand everything I read. It keeps me coming back.

In 100 years from now, when everyone is speaking more slang and gibberish, do we then change the word of God so we can make it in our language of the day? Nonsense. Leave God's word alone and change you.

Jeremiah 26:2, Thus saith the Lord; Stand in the court of the Lord's house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the Lord's house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them; diminish not a word:

God told Jeremiah to stand and speak all the words He has given Jeremiah to speak, diminish not a word. If Jeremiah were to tone down the message and remove even one word, it may have been more acceptable in the people's sight, but it would not have been acceptable to God.

 

[John146]

the right division = Jesus is Lord obey Him......Hes not commanding anyone to build an arc lol have you guys ever hear Jesus? He commands His disciples, makes all of His teachings realllllly clear. as I thought I had been clear we follow Jesus. if he tells us to build an arc then yeah wed build it. His command is to lay down ownership of yourself, and follow Him as the Lord.


proper division Jesus first = eternal Life. or arithmetic is 1 + 1 = 2. the Lord is the math teacher, to "properly divide" is to learn His math......

God uses spokesmen all throughout history to preach a message to people. People are to obey the spokesmen and in so doing, they are obeying God. The Apostle Paul is the spokesmen God has chosen for the Church Age. Over and over Scripture commands us to follow Paul. Why? Because things have changed since the earthly ministry of Christ. Even Peter found it difficult to understand the new way of Paul.

2 Timothy 2:7, Consider what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything.

In order to understand all things, we must consider what the Lord revealed to the Apostle Paul through his writings. Consider what Paul says and any instructions that seem to contradict his writings apply to a group other than the church. This would include the eating of certain meats, holy days, baptism, salvation, the Holy Spirit's work. Scripture even claims that by him the preaching is fully known so that the Gentiles might hear God's instructions to them.

2 Timothy 4:17, Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.

1 Corinthians 4:16-17, 16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me. 17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.Philippians 4:9, Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

When we follow Paul, we are following Jesus Christ and His revelations He gave Paul for the church.

 

[Grace777x70]

God uses spokesmen all throughout history to preach a message to people. People are to obey the spokesmen and in so doing, they are obeying God. The Apostle Paul is the spokesmen God has chosen for the Church Age. Over and over Scripture commands us to follow Paul. Why? Because things have changed since the earthly ministry of Christ. Even Peter found it difficult to understand the new way of Paul.

2 Timothy 2:7, Consider what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything.

In order to understand all things, we must consider what the Lord revealed to the Apostle Paul through his writings. Consider what Paul says and any instructions that seem to contradict his writings apply to a group other than the church. This would include the eating of certain meats, holy days, baptism, salvation, the Holy Spirit's work. Scripture even claims that by him the preaching is fully known so that the Gentiles might hear God's instructions to them.

2 Timothy 4:17, Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.

1 Corinthians 4:16-17, 16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me. 17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.Philippians 4:9, Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

When we follow Paul, we are following Jesus Christ and His revelations He gave Paul for the church.

Amen...Jesus Himself sent Paul to explain the gospel. Without Paul's letters we would have no clue as to what happened in the gospels when Jesus died and rose again for our justification and in creating a new creation where we now have a new heart in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

Ephesians 3:2-5 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you;

[SUP]3 [/SUP] that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;

Some people just have a hard time understanding that the New Covenant did not start until Jesus died and rose again.

Sometimes when Jesus spoke He was giving the people Moses 2.0 - the Law on steroids to reveal their need for a Savior and deliver them from self-righteousness. To others that knew of their need for a Savior - He gave them grace. Don't take someone else's medicine.

To not rightly divide between the 2 covenants ( old and New ) will cause all sorts of a religious mess. The Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ changed everything and we have a great salvation in Him.