So what about the fourth commandment?

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Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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Acts 20 don't think Catholics were around yet

7Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.
So RobbyEarl, your claiming Acts 20:7 proves Paul was keeping sunday as the new day of rest

ACTS 20 [7] And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.[8] And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.

The above scripture is used by the many to convince people that sunday was being kept as a day of rest instead of the sabbath during the time of Paul. They will point out that on the first day of the week they came together to “break bread” and thus the believers of Pauls time were following sunday as the “new testament” day of rest.


ACTS 2 [42] And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.[43] And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.[44] And all that believed were together, and had all things common;[45] And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.[46] And they, CONTINUING DAILY with one accord in the temple, AND BREAKING BREAD from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

But as you can see they “broke bread” daily. Not just on the first day of the week. They were simply eating. The fact is, you will find no where in the new testament anyone keeping sunday as a day of rest.

LUKE 4 [14] And JESUS returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.[15] And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.[16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, AS HIS CUSTOM WAS, he WENT INTO THE SYNAGOGUE ON THE SABBATH DAY, and stood up for to read.

JESUS kept the sabbath

ACTS 17 [2] AND PAUL, AS HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them, and three SABBATH DAYS reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

PAUL kept the sabbath

ACTS 13 [42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, THE GENTILES besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.[43] Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.[44] And THE NEXT SABBATH DAY CAME ALMOST THE WHOLE CITY TOGETHER TO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD.

GENTILES come together on the sabbath to hear the WORD.

Can anyone show me in scripture where the Word of God actually changes or does away with the sabbath day of rest? Anywhere in the new testament? How about in the old testament? Anywhere?

ACTS 25 [7] And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove. [8] While he answered for himself, NEITHER AGAINST THE LAW OF THE JEWS, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, HAVE I OFFENDED ANY THING AT ALL.

During the time of Paul there were also many who accused Paul, saying he was not keeping Gods law (which includes the sabbath). Just as it is today, nobody seems to be able to prove that.
 
G

Gladstone

Guest

well it sounds different when you put it that way!


When it is put that way, then it makes sense. The beast taking the name Jesus Christ in the future makes sense to you. It is an acceptable theory because it is logical, it would be the most clever way to deceive Christians, and it doesn't negate any understanding or beliefs you already have. However, if someone were to present evidence that the image of the beast was set up nearly two thousand years ago with the name Jesus Christ, faith in your beliefs would not allow you to accept that information. You would shut your eyes and ears because it threatens your faith in Jesus Christ, which is all you have. You have faith in Jesus Christ, and there is no other beside him, and anyone that doesn't profess his name will die in their sins. If I don't receive his name, then I will die? Beast. If I don't welcome Jesus Christ into my heart, the throne room of the temple that is my body, and profess that he is God, then I will die? Antichrist. When the apostles received the spirit in Acts, cloven tongues of fire descended upon them. Did they make fire come down in the sight of men? If they spoke as a dragon, then would they have cloven tongues? Did the apostles and many of the Christian Church thereafter exercise the powers of Jesus Christ such as healing, walking on water, and raising people from the dead? Did Paul say he bears in his body the marks of our Lord Jesus? Did Paul also say Christ who is the image of God? Did Peter make clean what God had said was unclean, and was there an authority higher than God to give him the power to make God's words naught? Because Paul had wrought miracles among the Gentiles who were yet uncircumcised, did he and Peter proclaim that you need not be circumcised to receive salvation through Christ, who is our Passover, although God forbid it? Who tells us that God didn't mean what he said? It was the serpent from the beginning. God told his chosen people to keep his commandments and judgments and statutes for ever and always. The false image of God tells you to throw out God's law, enter into a new covenant with him, profess his name to be Jesus Christ, or you will die in your sins. There is good news, and it is the gospel. The messiah came in the flesh, the son of God, having the spirit of God in him, came in his Father's name, not of his own, and sacrificed his body and blood on the evening of Passover upon a cross to save us from our sins. His blood literally fell through the earth onto the mercy seat of the arc of the covenant which was hidden there beneath the earth since the time Jerusalem was sacked by the Babylonians. His blood now rests at the right hand of his Father making intercession for our sins. Pray unto the Father that he remembers that one perfect Passover sacrifice that he provided to forgive us of our sins, and for the Father to fill us with his spirit, then walk with God. He said he will not hold guiltless those who take his name in vain. He also said, "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for commandments the doctrine of men." No man can take away God's commandments. They can teach you that everything God said was only temporary. But when God says to do something for ever and always and perpetually, and anyone else tells you differently, you must decide who has the authority.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Originally Posted by Gladstone
Yes, I believe the beast of the earth, 666, will be named Jesus Christ. It is not a farfetched claim. If the beast intends to deceive the whole world into worshiping him, then why wouldn't he take the name of our Salvation?
God does not have a name to be used in that way. All of the names are authorities that point to His immutable attributes . He does not need a name to differentiate himself from the false gods who also have no form . They also have names that he has assigned to them in respect to what they do. There is no Bobby the demon and a sister Carol another.

The father of lies, Satan (the angel of the false light), the serpent is simply called “legion” because he is many. He never comes as one worker as a disembodied spirit god..called a worker with a familiar spirit. God calls an abomination.

One thing I find interesting is when the word three is used in parables, the poetic language in which God speaks by as that in which he has designed to hide spiritual truth from one while giving the privilege to His children to search it out as the gospel, hid from the lost.

That the word three is used as a metaphor to represent the end of a matter numerous times and places . And 6 the number he assigns to natural converted man also called a beast. Therefore 6 assigned is the number metaphor to that beast as man... Three times establishes the mark or called the spot as below as marked differently than another spot or mark (not a literal mark) but one not seen to represent faith..

He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.They have corrupted themselves, “their spot” (mark) is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation. Deu 32:4

Since God alone is perfect and perfect or complete is identified by the number seven . If he was to use Christ as a the literal mark or the spot as our Rock . He would of simply used 777 as the metaphor rather than 666.
 
J

jamesg1951

Guest
what is it i'm twisting?

you're pulling out just the verses that mention sabbath, and ignoring all the surrounding conversation that explains what the book is saying.

i'm showing you the context, and how together it all points to Christ.
not to show "
i am wise" but to show that Christ is glorified.
so what is it you are doing, saying
"
i am too wise to answer you" ?
"
i am too knowledgeable to give an explanation or reply" ?
you don't seem to be glorifying Christ, whatever it is you are doing.

when you say things like "
you twist things" with no explanation whatsoever, and you simply snip things out of context with no justification or explanation, it sure looks like the opposite of your accusation is true, and that the reason you don't reply to me is that you cannot.

most of the time, mike, what i do is ask you questions, and you summarily dismiss them.
here i've asked a few direct, practical questions about how we should celebrate feasts which would, by the letter of the Torah, require killing animals for sanctification by their blood - which seems like directly abusing the sacrifice of Christ, our own Lamb - but have you even bothered to reply to those?
are you teaching Torah, or not?


the scripture requires that those who are mature in the faith rebuke and correct bad doctrine, and that all of us be able to answer questions and give reason for our sure hope.
the book does not say "
ignore people and refuse to answer them" -- even of fools, the book says answer them, lest they continue on in their foolishness ((though do not answer them foolishly and so be just as foolish yourself)).
"the scripture requires that those who are mature in the faith rebuke and correct bad doctrine,'

And this is where all the hatred of the christians spew from. An excuse to not love your neighbor, born from the question Who is my neighbor" Who is a true christian" Why only christians who Ido what I say they should. This is the love that Jesus brings to a christians heart. "We are ONE in the spirit we are one in the lord? what a joke. Christians are the most vile of all religions, hypocrites all. And as Jesus prophesied he will say to those christians "Depart from me for I knew you not.

Feel free to rebuke and correct me all you "mature in the faith " hypoc... oops I mean christians.
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
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Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:But the seventh day
[is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-11 (KJV)
Those commandments were addressed to the group of people delivered from slavery in Egypt. See Exodus 20:1. They were part of (less than, <, 2% of the whole the total more detailed Law of Moses, all delivered to those people. Note they were never commanded to Gentiles. For the Jews, failing to obey just one of the whole made the Jew accounted as sinner of all.

Besides Israel's inability to satisfy God about that, we have the principle of once a man dies, he dies to the flesh and to the Law. He is no longer held under that Law. A widow was freed to remarry when husband died, since by his death she was released from that topic of the Law.

Besides that, e have Jesus, who died to the Law, then by his resurrection lived free from it. All his disciples should enjoy that state of being, having died to the flesh, arose in the Spirit.

So along comes a single law that takes the stage. That's a severe misuse of the Law of Moses, though it's applicable to that House of Israel. There are cults that insist Christians are now of that House of Israel, or that God has abandoned Israel for some "new Israel". No, Christians are of the greater family of God. We are not held to the Law of Moses except what the" First Jerusalem Council" decided in Acts 15. The commandments of Jesus exceeded those laws in righteousness, with power to obey his sayings.

Paul was present at that meeting, who went on to teach soundly that there are no "holy days", no sabbaths that God demands. He never preached against them, only that Gentiles in particular are not married to the old covenant since our Lord died and was freed from them for us. His burden is far lighter than those, centered on love of God, self, and neighbor.
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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Those commandments were addressed to the group of people delivered from slavery in Egypt. See Exodus 20:1. They were part of (less than, <, 2% of the whole the total more detailed Law of Moses, all delivered to those people. Note they were never commanded to Gentiles.
Never commanded to gentiles UNTIL Christ. Out of the writings of Paul

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

We {gentiles}were once STRANGERS from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

Even them (us gentile STRANGERS mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest

EXODUS 31 [16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the SABBATH, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL COVENANT.

The above scripture points to one of those covenants spoken of in Ephes.2

ROMANS 1 [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] without understanding, COVENANTBREAKERS, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

And you can see who Paul lumps in with the covenantbreakers. Not good company
 
J

jamesg1951

Guest
Reminds me of how Jesus spoke to the religious people of his day...

[h=3](christianity?)Pharisaism Exposed[/h]23 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, [SUP]2 [/SUP]saying: “The scribes and Pharisees have seated themselves in Moses’ chair [of authority as teachers of the Law]; [SUP]3 [/SUP]so practice and observe everything they tell you, but do not do as they do; for they preach [things], but do not practice them. [SUP]4 [/SUP]The scribes and Pharisees tie up [SUP][a][/SUP]heavy loads [that are hard to bear] and place them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves will not lift a finger [to make them lighter]. [SUP]5 [/SUP]They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their [SUP][b][/SUP]phylacteries (tefillin) wide [to make them more conspicuous] and make their [SUP][c][/SUP]tassels long. [SUP]6 [/SUP]They love the place of distinction and honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues [those on the platform near the scrolls of the Law, facing the congregation], [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to be greeted [with respect] in the market places and public forums, and to have people call them Rabbi. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But do not be called Rabbi (Teacher); for One is your Teacher, and you are all [equally] brothers. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Do not call anyone on earth [who guides you spiritually] your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Do not let yourselves be called leaders or teachers; for One is your Leader (Teacher), the Christ. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But the greatest among you will be your servant. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be raised to honor.
 
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Thus saith YHVH, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation
[is] near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.Blessed [is] the man [that] doeth this, and the son of man [that] layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Isaiah 56:1-2 (KJV, MBM)
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Thus saith YHVH, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation
[is] near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.Blessed [is] the man [that] doeth this, and the son of man [that] layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Isaiah 56:1-2 (KJV, MBM)

How do we keep from polluting it? By saying fleshly ordinances can makes ones conscience perfect as a wonderful work we can do?

You have not described the purpose of the ceremonial laws that you say we are to judge one another in respect too? What is the penalty as far as the wage of sin for not keeping them? Eternal damnation never to rise to new spirit life again?

How do we keep shadows which were a figure/parable for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

What does only in meats and fleshly ordinances mean? Can we judge one another in respect to them .Does God judge us in respect to those kind of fleshly ceremonies’? Or were they used as metaphors to announce the gospel in respect to the suffering of Christ before hand and the glory that did follow the veil was rent signaling the beginning of the reformation?

Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Why does God hate the appointed feasts to include the Sabbaths? Why is he weary to bear them?

Did they miss the meaning of stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. Did the reformation begin. Or are we waiting for Christ to come the first time to fulfill the shadows ?
 
Jul 12, 2012
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The Sabbath Day is not a shadow. Rather the wording is to remember. (Exodus 20:8-11)

This means that the Seventh Day Sabbath points us back to creation. (Genesis 2:1-2)

This all has to do with learning from example. Who set the example? Jesus Himself :) (John 1)

Whose example are we continually reminded to follow Jesus:)

Notice the wording in 2 Corinthians 3:18

The idea is to behold Christ and follow His example. He kept the Sabbath, so we should too.

The Sabbath rest therefore remains, and that rest is found in Christ and in being in relationship with Him. as we all know, every relationship has expectations and laws, and our relationship with Christ is no different. we must obey His commands and He promises to help us do so.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
The Sabbath Day is not a shadow. Rather the wording is to remember. (Exodus 20:8-11)

This means that the Seventh Day Sabbath points us back to creation. (Genesis 2:1-2)

This all has to do with learning from example. Who set the example? Jesus Himself :) (John 1)

Whose example are we continually reminded to follow Jesus:)

Notice the wording in 2 Corinthians 3:18

The idea is to behold Christ and follow His example. He kept the Sabbath, so we should too.

The Sabbath rest therefore remains, and that rest is found in Christ and in being in relationship with Him. as we all know, every relationship has expectations and laws, and our relationship with Christ is no different. we must obey His commands and He promises to help us do so.
Yes, our true sabbath rest is found in Christ, not in a day of the week.
 

Yonah

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2014
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as I stated before concerning the Sabbath, and it was not addressed, I'm wondering why.... please go ask your pastor, it would be interesting to see what he says.... so here it is, Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
now as we all know this was speaking of a day that would occur AFTER our Saviors death and resurrection.. (A.D. 70) so why would He say pray your flight not be on the Sabbath day if in fact that day would be changed or replaced? He knew when this would occur, if the Sabbath had no meaning why would our Savior see it as important even after He ascended to heaven? can anyone answer this with scripture in context please?
 
Jul 12, 2012
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Yet I still keep the day because I love Him and know that is what is right. Christ has a standard and it is and will be His law. the law cannot be changed, it was because of this that Christ had to die in the first place. If we do away with sin by ignoring its existence we can no longer define right and wrong. therefore morals become left to man's interpretation not God's. No, I believe the Law is holy and just and good and choose to uphold the law, not to be saved, but because I have been saved. Christ's character is the wedding garment. We need the invitation, but we also need to put on Christ Jesus and make no provision for the flesh.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
as I stated before concerning the Sabbath, and it was not addressed, I'm wondering why.... please go ask your pastor, it would be interesting to see what he says.... so here it is, Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
now as we all know this was speaking of a day that would occur AFTER our Saviors death and resurrection.. (A.D. 70) so why would He say pray your flight not be on the Sabbath day if in fact that day would be changed or replaced? He knew when this would occur, if the Sabbath had no meaning why would our Savior see it as important even after He ascended to heaven? can anyone answer this with scripture in context please?
Because He was a Jew under the Law speaking to other Jews under the Law?
 
Jul 12, 2012
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Jesus was speaking to His disciples. these were the very ones sent to teach. They taught His doctrine and no where did He advocate the breaking of the Sabbath Day that He Himself established at creation.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
Jesus was speaking to His disciples. these were the very ones sent to teach. They taught His doctrine and no where did He advocate the breaking of the Sabbath Day that He Himself established at creation.
Disciples are not Apostles. And He was very aware of what He was about to accomplish through the cross.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Yet I still keep the day because I love Him and know that is what is right. Christ has a standard and it is and will be His law. the law cannot be changed, it was because of this that Christ had to die in the first place. If we do away with sin by ignoring its existence we can no longer define right and wrong. therefore morals become left to man's interpretation not God's. No, I believe the Law is holy and just and good and choose to uphold the law, not to be saved, but because I have been saved. Christ's character is the wedding garment. We need the invitation, but we also need to put on Christ Jesus and make no provision for the flesh.
Good evening humbledbygrace,

There is nothing wrong with keeping a specific day to the Lord. It is when people make it a requirement, such as observing the Sabbath on Saturday or any day as a requirement for salvation, that it deviates from grace. And that because salvation then becomes earned by your own efforts. Our trusting in Christ's sacrifice, that He alone provided salvation for us by what He did and not by what we do, is how we are saved. By trusting in Him as the One who alone purchased mankind for God with His blood we are saved (Rev.5:9-10).
 
Jul 12, 2012
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Good evening humbledbygrace,

There is nothing wrong with keeping a specific day to the Lord. It is when people make it a requirement, such as observing the Sabbath on Saturday or any day as a requirement for salvation, that it deviates from grace. And that because salvation then becomes earned by your own efforts. Our trusting in Christ's sacrifice, that He alone provided salvation for us by what He did and not by what we do, is how we are saved. By trusting in Him as the One who alone purchased mankind for God with His blood we are saved (Rev.5:9-10).
Do we have faith if we don't obey though? Can I break the fifth sixth seventh eighth and ninth commandments and be saved while breaking them? what about the first second and third? if what you say is so, then I suppose I have licence to sin, because sin no longer exists it was destroyed on Calvary. is this true?

what makes the fourth commandment works and the others not?
 
Jul 12, 2012
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what about this Scripture: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Revelation 22:14*-‬15 KJV
http://bible.com/1/rev.22.14-15.KJV
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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what about this Scripture: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Revelation 22:14*-‬15 KJV
http://bible.com/1/rev.22.14-15.KJV
"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. This is my command: Love each other."

"Then they asked him, 'What must we do to do the works God requires?' Jesus answered, 'The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.' ”

The commands that Jesus mentions are not the commandments of the law. For scripture states that no one is able to keep the law. And when the law has been broken, it brings wrath and condemnation. The best way to not break the law is to have no law to break. We follow in the new way, lead by the Spirit. We have died to the law through Christ.