A Kingdom Divided

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SCHISM

SCHISM

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2016
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[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]I have been reading threads on this site for about a week now and decided to register and join the discussion. There is a dispute between those who seek to keep the "old" law and those who are born again under the "new" law. Although when the "new" law followers tell the "old" law followers that they will die in their sins, and the "old" law followers tell the "new" law followers that they are sinning, it appears that the "dispute" is more of a division. [/COLOR][COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]
[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)](Matthew 12: 25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand) [/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]
[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]God's kingdom is not one that is divided against itself.

Then are the people divided on this matter part of two separate kingdoms? Do they follow separate gods?


Assuming the correct answer is yes, what gods do they follow?


The "old" law followers follow the God of the Old Testament, the God that said certain things would be done forever and always and perpetually, the God that said you must be circumcised to eat of the Passover, the God that created the heavens and the earth.


The "new" law followers follow a new version of that same Old Testament God that created the heavens and the earth, but the new version didn't really mean all the words he said before, such as: forever and always and perpetually, and he didn't really mean it when he said that no uncircumcised may partake of the Passover.


Knowing there is only one True God, which of these gods should we trust?
Each made the same promises, and one sacrificed his Son for our sins, but one of these gods has been telling a lot of lies.


From the beginning, in the garden, the serpent convinced man that something God said was untrue. Believing that God spoke a lie was the first time man was deceived.


Should we circumcise our hearts?


[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]I meant the words that I typed. If you ask if I meant to say something that I did not, then the answer is No. If you claim that I meant something that I did not say, then you obviously missed the point I am trying to make you aware of. [/COLOR]
 
You might consider proof reading your thread before clicking on Post Reply.........just saying......welcome to CC.
 
In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands.
Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ,
having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him
through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. Col 2:11-12
 
After reading the OP I can only think one thing. NO WAIT! Two things. No! Wait. One or two things, but that's it.

Okay, three things.
First, just give us the truth, the troll truth, and nothing but the truth, who put you up to this?
Come onnn, you can tell us. Where's the cameras?

And two. Second. Secondly, schism is a good name.
For you.
There is only One God. The God of the Old is the God of the New.
The Lord Jesus Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God, and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
That's Jesus. That's God. No disputes. See?

Oh, and if you put your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior,
believe in your heart and proclaim it, that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the grave,
you shall be saved. Praise God.

Three.
 
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""""Then are the people divided on this matter part of two separate kingdoms? Do they follow separate gods?


Assuming the correct answer is yes, what gods do they follow?""""
Click to expand...

Yes they are following two different Jesus's.. There are people who are following /believing and trusting in the true Jesus of the Bible who is the WORD of God and then there are those who are following another jesus modified by the thinking of men and their traditions and what they think is right and good..

People whom you talk of as being the ""old" law followers" Believe that Law doing is essential to being saved and that law breaking will cause one to lose their salvation .. they believe that We human beings are the ones who keep ourselves saved by Old testament Law doing and if we sin after we are saved then we are in danger of no longer being saved.. This is basically called Works salvation believers.. Which is basically the belief that Old testament Jews had and what nearly all the worlds religions preach.. That if you do do do for God and if your good enough at doing the laws and avoiding sin and giving charity you will earn enough goody goody points to make the pass mark of righteousness and make it into eternity with God because you where good enough to make it and justify your own position in eternity with God.. Whe Jesus came the first time He made it clear that the way the Jews thought about religion was wrong, their works salvation mentality was wrong .. He made it clear that eternity with God was only had by having ones transgressions against the law forgiven and that NO man will ever justify themselves through law keeping.. That indeed all men are condemned because of the law because all men are breakers of the law.. But it is hard fr men to admit they are sinners needing to be saved by someone else other then themselves.. Pride wants to make the grade,, Pride wants to achieve the pass mark.. pride wants to look down upon the inferior bad people and feel superior to them and feel morally superior to the inferior sinners around then.. All you have to do is read the parable of Jesus:::

Luke 18: KJV
 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


 
Really though, how is it humble before God to ignore things He said to do forever and always and perpetually? Why didn't God say to do those things until a time that He would take them away? If we hold everything God says to be true, which is faith in Him, why do we ignore some things He said to do continuously? Unless we believe that some words in the first five books are recorded wrongly, or unless we believe God told several lies, we ignore many words spoken by God. Jesus Christ, being also the bread of life, said, "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." God also said, "Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no." Lastly, I testify, when I pray to God for daily bread and read chapters of the Bible, He blesses me with understanding that is plainly written that I had not known nor was taught by men. God bless you all. Thank you all for politely replying and my apologies for the errors in the original post.
 
SCHISM said:
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]I have been reading threads on this site for about a week now and decided to register and join the discussion. There is a dispute between those who seek to keep the "old" law and those who are born again under the "new" law. Although when the "new" law followers tell the "old" law followers that they will die in their sins, and the "old" law followers tell the "new" law followers that they are sinning, it appears that the "dispute" is more of a division. [/COLOR][COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]
[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)](Matthew 12: 25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand) [/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]
[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]God's kingdom is not one that is divided against itself.

Then are the people divided on this matter part of two separate kingdoms? Do they follow separate gods?


Assuming the correct answer is yes, what gods do they follow?


The "old" law followers follow the God of the Old Testament, the God that said certain things would be done forever and always and perpetually, the God that said you must be circumcised to eat of the Passover, the God that created the heavens and the earth.


The "new" law followers follow a new version of that same Old Testament God that created the heavens and the earth, but the new version didn't really mean all the words he said before, such as: forever and always and perpetually, and he didn't really mean it when he said that no uncircumcised may partake of the Passover.


Knowing there is only one True God, which of these gods should we trust?
Each made the same promises, and one sacrificed his Son for our sins, but one of these gods has been telling a lot of lies.


From the beginning, in the garden, the serpent convinced man that something God said was untrue. Believing that God spoke a lie was the first time man was deceived.


Should we circumcise our hearts?


[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]I meant the words that I typed. If you ask if I meant to say something that I did not, then the answer is No. If you claim that I meant something that I did not say, then you obviously missed the point I am trying to make you aware of. [/COLOR]
Click to expand...

there is no Hebrew word which means for ever, perpetually. They did not have a concept of eternity (only translators did). It means 'into the distant future'.
 
SCHISM said:
Really though, how is it humble before God to ignore things He said to do forever and always and perpetually? Why didn't God say to do those things until a time that He would take them away? If we hold everything God says to be true, which is faith in Him, why do we ignore some things He said to do continuously? Unless we believe that some words in the first five books are recorded wrongly, or unless we believe God told several lies, we ignore many words spoken by God. Jesus Christ, being also the bread of life, said, "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." God also said, "Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no." Lastly, I testify, when I pray to God for daily bread and read chapters of the Bible, He blesses me with understanding that is plainly written that I had not known nor was taught by men. God bless you all. Thank you all for politely replying and my apologies for the errors in the original post.
Click to expand...

Have you considered the Cross??
 
There are only two groups of people. There are those who put themselves back under the Law and there are those who put themselves under Grace.

The Law was given to prove to us that keeping the Law is impossible. Grace was given to us because God loved us so much He wanted us to actually walk with Him.

How can you walk in Love with God if every single minute you are trying to earn God's love by trying to keep the Law by your own efforts?

Everyone who tries to keep the Law are under the Law! Do they not know they cannot be Justified by the Law? Do they not know Salvation is received by Grace and not by keeping the Law?

Ephesians 2:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved
 
SCHISM said:
Really though, how is it humble before God to ignore things He said to do forever and always and perpetually? Why didn't God say to do those things until a time that He would take them away? If we hold everything God says to be true, which is faith in Him, why do we ignore some things He said to do continuously? Unless we believe that some words in the first five books are recorded wrongly, or unless we believe God told several lies, we ignore many words spoken by God. Jesus Christ, being also the bread of life, said, "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." God also said, "Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no." Lastly, I testify, when I pray to God for daily bread and read chapters of the Bible, He blesses me with understanding that is plainly written that I had not known nor was taught by men. God bless you all. Thank you all for politely replying and my apologies for the errors in the original post.
Click to expand...

Consider the audience and rightly divide the word of truth.
 
SCHISM said:
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]I have been reading threads on this site for about a week now and decided to register and join the discussion. There is a dispute between those who seek to keep the "old" law and those who are born again under the "new" law. Although when the "new" law followers tell the "old" law followers that they will die in their sins, and the "old" law followers tell the "new" law followers that they are sinning, it appears that the "dispute" is more of a division. [/COLOR][COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]
[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)](Matthew 12: 25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand) [/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]
[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]God's kingdom is not one that is divided against itself.

Then are the people divided on this matter part of two separate kingdoms? Do they follow separate gods?


Assuming the correct answer is yes, what gods do they follow?


The "old" law followers follow the God of the Old Testament, the God that said certain things would be done forever and always and perpetually, the God that said you must be circumcised to eat of the Passover, the God that created the heavens and the earth.


The "new" law followers follow a new version of that same Old Testament God that created the heavens and the earth, but the new version didn't really mean all the words he said before, such as: forever and always and perpetually, and he didn't really mean it when he said that no uncircumcised may partake of the Passover.


Knowing there is only one True God, which of these gods should we trust?
Each made the same promises, and one sacrificed his Son for our sins, but one of these gods has been telling a lot of lies.


From the beginning, in the garden, the serpent convinced man that something God said was untrue. Believing that God spoke a lie was the first time man was deceived.


Should we circumcise our hearts?


[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]I meant the words that I typed. If you ask if I meant to say something that I did not, then the answer is No. If you claim that I meant something that I did not say, then you obviously missed the point I am trying to make you aware of. [/COLOR]
Click to expand...

You appear to be the CEO of a very large straw man factory.

Please stop being " unsure". Accept Jesus and live!!
 
Vdp said:
There are only two groups of people. There are those who put themselves back under the Law and there are those who put themselves under Grace.

The Law was given to prove to us that keeping the Law is impossible. Grace was given to us because God loved us so much He wanted us to actually walk with Him.

How can you walk in Love with God if every single minute you are trying to earn God's love by trying to keep the Law by your own efforts?

Everyone who tries to keep the Law are under the Law! Do they not know they cannot be Justified by the Law? Do they not know Salvation is received by Grace and not by keeping the Law?

Ephesians 2:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved
Click to expand...

When the disciples thought keeping the law was impossible, Jesus told them that with God all things are possible. Following the law isn't to earn salvation or goody points but simply to obey what God said to do. Valiant, God bless you. I will have to verify this information about the Hebrew words not literally meaning forever and perpetually, but this is exactly the evidence that could put this schism to rest. Pun intended. Thank you.
 
SCHISM said:
When the disciples thought keeping the law was impossible, Jesus told them that with God all things are possible. Following the law isn't to earn salvation or goody points but simply to obey what God said to do. Valiant, God bless you. I will have to verify this information about the Hebrew words not literally meaning forever and perpetually, but this is exactly the evidence that could put this schism to rest. Pun intended. Thank you.
Click to expand...


Schism what do you make of this

acts 15:10

10 [FONT=&quot]Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?[/FONT]
 
So many times people accuse others of 'not doing what the bible says' or 'not doing what Jesus says' or some legalism or other,
inspecting others 'fruit' and claiming to have 'the Holy Spirit'
and can discern who is 'walking in the Spirit' or the flesh, blah, blah, blah,
it gets nauseating, it's obnoxious and arrogant.

So for all those who like to tell others what they're not doing,
or having too much grace, or being disobedient, or not getting wet properly,,,,,,

Here's one back at you-------
The bible says believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
Why don't YOU do what the bible says?!

Jesus says Come unto ME all who are weary and are heavy laden,
I will GIVE you REST.
Take MY yoke and learn of ME, for MY yoke is EASY
and MY burden is LIGHT.

Why don't YOU do what Jesus says?!

Jesus said rejoice because our names are written in heaven.
Why don't YOU do what Jesus says?!

Jesus says Be of good cheer, HE has overcome the world.
Why don't YOU do what Jesus says.

Why don't YOU do what God Jesus the Bible says, and stop inspecting everyone else's fruit and telling people what you think they're doing wrong? We already have one Lord and Savior, and He's quite capable of being both.
God bless you in His grace and love, ok?
 
I am very thankful for all of your replies. I did the search pertaining to those words translated as perpetually and always and for ever, and I found Valiant's statement to be true. Brothers, I have been afraid to speak the name of Jesus for about three years now because of private interpretations of the Bible. I thought that everyone was deceived and that I could find the truth. I have lived in constant fear for my soul and the souls of my Christian family members for three years. I'm going to go apologize to a preacher whom I believed was trying to deceive me, and I am going to ask him to baptize me in the name of Jesus Christ. I don't understand it all, but I now believe what you all were saying is true. Wow. I am amazed. Truly. I give in. That was good.
 
SCHISM said:
I am very thankful for all of your replies. I did the search pertaining to those words translated as perpetually and always and for ever, and I found Valiant's statement to be true. Brothers, I have been afraid to speak the name of Jesus for about three years now because of private interpretations of the Bible. I thought that everyone was deceived and that I could find the truth. I have lived in constant fear for my soul and the souls of my Christian family members for three years. I'm going to go apologize to a preacher whom I believed was trying to deceive me, and I am going to ask him to baptize me in the name of Jesus Christ. I don't understand it all, but I now believe what you all were saying is true. Wow. I am amazed. Truly. I give in. That was good.
Click to expand...
Well Hallelujah and Praise the Lord!

That was the first 'like' I hit since I registered, not because I haven't liked others; I have, very much, but I just didn't hit the button for a few reasons, silly I suppose, but I HAD to hit 'like' here! (And thank you everyone who liked or repped any of mine, thank you so much)

And sorry for a bit of sarcasm earlier, but the OP seemed classic, and we all have our ways. :p

But it's a glorious day when even one sinner comes to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and is saved! He's a good and loving Father and His Word is True and Amen. When He says He will never leave you or forsake you, He means it and salvation is a done deal because of what Jesus has done for us, praise God!

Just know that water baptism is a faithful response to the gift of salvation already given and received, Not a means of obtaining it.
Salvation is by faith in Jesus, and that's forever settled in heaven, whether or not you make it to the water. :) But it's a wonderful thing if you do.

So, thank God for His unspeakable gift, (indescribable), read His Word, pray praise and fellowship, and don't be afraid, for God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of love and a sound mind, and His perfect love for us casts out fear.

(And hey, we all go through rough patches, different fearS plural, doubt's, etc. as we walk along, but God is with you and in you, and even at times if we are faithless, He is faithFUL, it's HIS Mighty Hand that holds us, and HIS Spirit of Truth and Love that seals and keeps us.)

He knows us, what we need, where we're weak or strong, as individuals and collectively as His body, and we're ALL loved and necessary, we need Him and each other. It's His design. Love. He is risen and He is real and He is coming again!
Sure, in THIS world we'll have our share of troubles, but Jesus said to be of good cheer, HE has overcome the world! God bless you friend and brother, may you grow in His grace and knowledge! :) Praise the Lord!
 
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