How can some suicides be a mortal sin and others not? This is nothing more than double talk by the Corrupted Catholics.
Hey PaulMack,
No. It is not double talk. You are wrong about that.
In order for a sin to be mortal 3 conditions have to be met. They are:
1. It must be grave matter (serious),
2. It must be committed with full knowledge, (the person is aware of what they are doing)
3. It must be done deliberately with full and free consent (They do it on purpose knowing that it is serious)
Some suicides could meet those three conditions, but many probably don't. As others have already mentioned on this thread and the Church agrees, there are situations that can prevent a person from realizing what they are actually doing. So they may not meet conditions 2 and 3 above. That could include things like, grave psychological disturbances, anguish, fear of hardship, suffering or torture. People who are going through those kind of things may not be acting in a way where they fully realize what they are doing. So the above 3 conditions are not met and it isn't a mortal sin. That is what the Church teaches. (CCC paragraph 2382)
Also, somebody could take an overdose of pills or something....but then repent of doing so before they die. To us that looks like clear cut suicide. It looks like a mortal sin. But to God (who alone knows that person's thoughts and heart at the moment of their death and is aware of their repentance), it isn't an unrepented of mortal sin. It is repented of before the person dies. And God forgives sins when people repent. Also, such a person is probably dealing with conditions stated above which also could make their suicide not a mortal sin.
So yes, some suicides could be mortal. And some could not.
There is no difference in sins. The sin of lying is just as great as the sin of murder. Its the Corrupted Catholics who teach there is a difference in sins.
Jesus thought there was.
He said this in John 19:11: "Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the
greater sin."
How can He speak of a greater sin unless there exists lesser sins?
Also, 1 John 5:16-17 shows two types of sins. Those that are "unto death" and those that are "not unto death". Pick any translation you want it is there. Here is the KJV:
"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is
not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death."
So yes, there are greater and lesser sins.
Could it be Bestil_Andno you are a Catholic who wants to deceive us with the lies of the Catholic Church? If so we really do not need you here on this site.
I am not ashamed to admit that I am Catholic. I think you can see that in my profile. I know that is what I put. I'm not very techy so I'm not sure who all can see that, though.
No. I am not here to deceive anyone with lies. I actually do not hang out here too much as you can tell by my low post count.
However, one of the reasons that I do jump in is because some people on this site make claims about the Catholic Church that are just not true. Truth matters so when that happens, I don't mind trying to clarify what it is that the Church actually teaches.
This idea that the Church teaches that people who commit suicide go to hell is a perfect example. A statement like that isn't true just because somebody said it is. So if the Church really teaches that...I've simply asked the people who said that to show me where. What is the harm in that? If the Church really teaches that, it should be able to be found. But if it doesn't really teach that, then that accusation should be recognized for what it is. An untrue statement.
Tell us Bestil_Andno, do you pray the Hail Mary? Do you pray the Rosary? Do you have pictures and statues of Mary? Does the Church you attend have pictures and statues of Mary?
So I guess at this point you are going to give up on showing me where the Catholic Church teaches that people who commit suicide go to hell?
With all due respect to you, I'd like to stick to the topic at hand for now.
How can one lose their Salvation by sinning when we never received our Salvation by not sinning?
Loss of salvation for the topic now? Sorry, I'd like to stick with one topic at a time.
All I did was ask where the Church taught that people who commit suicide go to hell. That was a claim that was put forth and I just wanted to know where the Church taught that.
I apologize if I have offended you....it is hard to tell in text but you seem a little upset. I do not see where the harm is in the question that I asked.
Ephesians 2:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved
By Grace from God we have been Saved. We have not received our Salvation by not sinning. Also since its by the Grace of God we have been saved we therefore cannot lose our Salvation by any sin we do.
Great verse. The Catholic Church agrees 100%. We are saved by God's grace. Amen.
Loss of salvation is not the topic I asked about, though.
1 John 1:7
[SUP]7 [/SUP]but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
The Blood of Jesus HAS ALREADY cleansed us from ALL sins. Therefore any sin we do has already been cleansed. Which means we cannot sin!
Ooh. You almost got me. That last sentence you wrote is very tempting to talk about.
But I am serious about trying to stick to one topic. I get so confused and it just feels like wheel-spinning to try to get into too many topics at once.
So I'm still at: Can you show me where the Catholic Church teaches that those who commit suicide go to hell?
If you can, I would like to see that. Seriously.
If you can't. You know, it's really no big deal to just say "Oops. I guess the Catholic Church doesn't really teach that after all and I was misinformed by somebody."
The whole point is the Catholics are corrupting the Scriptures to justify their believe we can lose our Salvation.
Off topic.
So why are you listening to the Corrupted Catholic Church that see's nothing wrong with teaching lies?
Well, why don't we start with the question at hand? Does the Church teach that people who commit suicide go to hell or not?
I won't accuse anyone who said that of lying....they probably are just misinformed. What I am saying is if that is true....prove it. If it is untrue, it should be shown to be untrue or people will be misled into believing lies.
Why are you even quoting anything from the Catholic Church? God Himself removed His Children from the Catholic Church with Martian Luther, John Calvin and others who walked away from the evil Church to follow and Worship God.
Another interesting topic, for sure. But off topic for now.
Again i ask. If you are a Catholic why are you here? To cause problems? To deceive others with the false teachings of the Catholic Church?
I am not ashamed to admit I am Catholic.
I come here for a couple of different reasons. One of them is not to cause problems, though. I assure you. Nor to deceive anyone.
1. To be honest, there is quite a few statements made on this site that misrepresent the Catholic Church and what it teaches.That isn't ok. That means people are being misled into believing something that isn't true. I occasionally will jump in to try to clarify some stuff. I understand nobody is going to convert to Catholicism...but, I figure, people will at least have a chance to understand what the Church really teaches about something versus what somebody mistakenly says it teaches.
I kindof feel like if I want to know what a Lutheran believes about something...I should talk to a Lutheran. Or if I want to know what a Baptist believes about something....I should talk to a Baptist. Or something about the LDS....I should talk to a LDS member. I figure it should be the same for Catholics. If someone wants to know what the Catholic Church teaches about something...they should probably be getting that info from a Catholic.
2. I have lots of non-Catholic friends and I enjoy discussing the Faith with them. I have some people even on this site I would consider to be friends, in a sense. People I enjoy discussing things with. I also find I can learn alot when talking with others whose Faith is a little different than mine.
3. I kindof believe in the "iron sharpens iron" thing. You know how when you get into a discussion it forces you to stick your nose into the Bible and reflect and study and pray? I think that is a good thing.
4. I want to know that what I believe is true. You know. Is it defensible, is it logical, does it hold water and all that. You can see different ideas from people on a non-Catholic site than you can on a Catholic site.
5. I like to talk about Jesus, God, the Bible, the Faith. Things that are important in life. It doesn't really matter to me with who.
If you are not a Catholic, then why are to listening to what the Catholics teach? The Truth is only in the Scriptures, not in the Catholic Church.
So yeah. I'm starting to feel that "I'm-wearing-out-my-welcome" thing again. That's why I don't hang out here too long.
With all due respect and I don't mean to offend you at all...but I wonder why you seem so frustrated with me? All I asked for was where the Catholic Church teaches that people go to hell who commit suicide.
It makes me wonder if you are frustrated just because I am Catholic and was sounding way too Catholic.....
....or are you frustrated because you want to believe the Church teaches that about suicide even though it hasn't been (or maybe cannot be) shown where it does?
At any rate, I have no hard feelings to you. I wish you peace.
Perhaps I'll check back here to see if somebody has found where the Church teaches what was originally claimed. Or perhaps I'll just take a break.
God Bless.
