(ritual) circumcisions today

simplifiedtruth · Aug 17, 2016

Lol that is not what it says at all(Your quote). It says: I will put MY Spirit within YOU, and cause YOU to walk in MY statutes, and YOU shall keep MY judgments, and DO them.

Also:

Jeremiah 31:33

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law(Torah) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

simplifiedtruth · Aug 17, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

oh ok, so you teach sinless perfection also.

good luck with that, When the law finally cits through yuor heart and you realise like the tax collector and paul what a sinner you are, then come talk to me, until then, we will not be able to have a conversation, because you think you are more righteous than you are.

I leave you with these words of Jesus.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: [SUP]10 [/SUP]“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ [SUP]13 [/SUP]And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ [SUP]14 [/SUP]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Allow the law to do what it was intended to do and lead you to him,, Otherwise, You will remain being a modern day pharisee who thinks you are more righteous than you really are.

Next!!

Genesis 6:9

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

2 Corinthians 7:1

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

eternally-gratefull · Aug 17, 2016

simplifiedtruth said:

I do not belong to the house of Israel. and I never will, (today they are in sin, because they still reject their messiah)

God has not fulfilled that promise yet, According to paul that is a future event.

Romans 11: [SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel will be saved,[SUP][g][/SUP] as it is written:“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

[SUP]28 [/SUP]Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

ps. I do walk in Gods statues, And I do walk in his ways. Although I am not perfect. And would never puff myself up to think I was,

Circumcision is not a moral issue, Is is a covenant issue,, I Will not be living in the land of cannan/Israel, or follow any of their customs given to THEM.

But I will follow what God tells me to do here in the good ole USA.

eternally-gratefull · Aug 17, 2016

simplifiedtruth said:

If Noah was perfect. Then when scripture says Jesus was the only man who walked and never knew sin, Scripture lied.

Next...

simplifiedtruth · Aug 17, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

If people break the law they will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. Whosoever shall do the law and teach it shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. Unless our righteousness shall surpass that of the scribes and pharisees we shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 5:17-19).

The Israelites are dead to the curse of the law and its penalties when they receive Christ. Every believer who walks with Christ is dead to the law of sin and death. This is the correct interpretation.

Dan_473 · Aug 17, 2016

Ariel82 said:

don't feel bad, I didn't get it either till I read the explanatory post...

simplifiedtruth · Aug 17, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

He was perfect because he walked with God and fully had a desire to obey Him. Also Abraham when he walked before God in he's life.

Genesis 17:1

And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Matthew 5:48

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

2 Corinthians 7:1

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Grace777x70 · Aug 17, 2016

simplifiedtruth said:

How does one get a righteousness to surpass that of the Pharisees?

Also...verse 17 is the operative passage as Jesus came to fulfill the Law.

Matthew 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Matthew 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Jesus was saying that He fulfilled the Law and it has served it's purpose for the believer in Him because when He died - we died with Him on the cross and rose again to newness of life.. The law is NOT for the righteous not for the unrighteous.

Jesus said "It is finished".

Dan_473 · Aug 17, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

I've wondered about Roots folks along those lines myself...

according to Roots thinking:

circumcision is required as part of keeping the law

refusing to be circumcised would be sinning

continueing in willful sin would cause a person to loose their salvation

so circumcision is a salvation issue

indeed, you must be circumcised and keep the whole law in order to continue in salvation

(the above is according to Roots thinking, as I understand it)

simplifiedtruth · Aug 17, 2016

simplifiedtruth said:

Luke 10:25

And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

When we have received the Spirit of Christ, This do, and we shall live. This is how we know that we know him: When we love God and keep He's commandments, and He's commandments are not burdensome.

When we do those two things we are walking with God with perfection.

Grace777x70 · Aug 17, 2016

simplifiedtruth said:

A few things here need to be addressed here in order to get understanding.

1) the Hebrew word here is "without blemish" for Abraham - not perfection as we know it nor is it the same meaning as in Matt. 5:48. No person other then Christ is as perfect as the Father is.

I love John 13:1-10 and how we need our daily walk cleansed by the washing of the water of the word. I watched a talk on this subject and it had an illustration of us being like a gold bar which had mud on it helped me to understand some things.

The gold bar still had it’s real value in it even though it had mud on it. Gold in the Bible speaks of God’s righteousness which of course we know He gave to us – we became the righteousness of God in Christ.

It goes on to show how the washing of the water of God’s word about righteousness and grace cleans off the mud from the gold bar which represents us.

As far as 2 Cor. 7:1 - "context" is very key here. We need to be reading the scriptures that are prior to 2 Cor. 7:1 which is why it starts out with "therefore"...when you see that - always see what it is "there for".

2 Corinthians 7:1 always confused me a bit when it says to cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. How can we cleanse defilement in our spirit when we are righteous because of our new creation in Christ?

I see this verse as us believing who we are in Christ now as the verse before in 2 Corinthians 6:18 says we are sons to our Father. The verses before verse 18 talk about being “separate” from the world – like what partnership does righteousness have with lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness..etc. ( verses 14-16 )

Cleansing the defilement from our flesh is obvious but of the spirit confused me. I think this verse is referring to how we view ourselves when defilement comes as when we viewed the mud on the gold bar. This defilement distorts our view mentally of our true selves ( the word spirit has been used in the N. T. to convey our thinking or mindset ) which we are in Christ because we are His righteousness now.

When we believe ( through the washing of the word of righteousness or hearing the word of Christ ) – we view who we really are in Christ. In this “beholding” of ourselves in Christ as in a mirror – we “become” or manifest outwardly who we really are.

Perfecting holiness in the fear of God means to me = fulfilling or accomplishing ( meaning for perfecting in greek ) our “otherness ” ( which holy really means “other” ) or separateness outwardly in the fear of God. ( Fear of God to me is realizing the awesomeness of God in His goodness ).

eternally-gratefull · Aug 17, 2016

simplifiedtruth said:

so he just had the desire to follow God. Thus he did not have to be sinless..

Wow, talk about watering down the law.

Noah wanted to be saved, because he knew he was a sinner, thats what caused hi to desire to do what God said.. as we all should.

simplifiedtruth · Aug 17, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

1. Our righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and pharisees when we love God with all our heart, and with all our soul, and with all our strength, and with all our mind; and our neighbor as ourselves. (The desire to Obey God, sorrowful repentance to the rebirth, answering God with a good conscience).

2. What you think fulfill is(destroy, do away with) , is not what Jesus says in the same sentence(Not destroy, do away with). This is what Jesus came to fulfill and the correct interpretation:

Luke 24:44

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

3. (Verse 18), Has Heaven and Earth passed away yet ? If not then we are to keep the law and Do it.

4. We died to the flesh(sin nature) with him on the tree when we received Christ in the rebirth of the Holy Spirit promise to the newness of life which is forgiveness and a desire to obey God's instructions, with the intent of not to be repented of again.

5. Jesus said: It is finished. He finished what he was sent to do of all that which was written of Him in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] (Matthew 5:17, Luke 24:44-47).

End of story! Be no more stiff necked but believe.[/FONT]

Grace777x70 · Aug 17, 2016

Dan_473 said:

I agree....."law-keepers" have a very low opinion of the Law. They water the Law down to make it seem "do-able" and they in the meantime are denying the finished work of Christ. Their beliefs are "anti-Christ" but are not "anti-God".

Paul said in the last days people would be anti-Christ NOT anti-God.

"Law-keepers" are exchanging Christ for the Law and are making the grace of Christ of no effect in their lives and the worse thing is that they are trying to get others to desert Christ to go back to the Law for living.

simplifiedtruth · Aug 17, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

James 2:21

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

If you truly have a desire to follow God with all your heart, mind and soul and strength, you will make effort to make sure works follow. God knows the heart.

Grace777x70 · Aug 17, 2016

simplifiedtruth said:

You have just revealed the anti-Christ belief system of "law-keepers". Thank you as this helps to clarify how one gets righteousness to law-keepers. Real Christians are made righteous by the Lord Jesus Christ - not by the keeping of any Law.

This is why so many are telling you that you are perverting the gospel of the grace of Christ with your trying to get people back to the Law for living. This is the very definition of a Judaizer and people will continue to defend the gospel from these perversions.

This in blue above is why "law-keepers" are anti-Christ in their beliefs. You have left out totally Christ's righteousness and you are trying to "obtain righteousness by what you do" and you are fulfilling the scripture that Paul wrote to the Romans about law-keepers trying to establish their own righteousness.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge
e.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

eternally-gratefull · Aug 17, 2016

simplifiedtruth said:

James said a man who has no works has no faith

Faith produces work, not the other way around.
Abraham did not have faith because he worked, He worked because he had faith.

Yet abraham was a sinner..

Rom 4:
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

simplifiedtruth · Aug 17, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Yet it is not some love of God without Christ. No man can come to the Father except through Christ.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge
e.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Romans 10:2-4 Is talking specifically about the non believing jews who did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God (Which is Jesus Christ), but they rejected Him and the gospel, thereby going about establishing their own righteousness because they had a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. Christ is the perfection of the law which the law in old times could never do. He is the completion of it. He is the real substance of it which was a shadow in times of old. Now we have a better and a more sure promise through Him. And we keep the law in Him, as he has placed the covenants and law within our hearts, being ministered through faith.

simplifiedtruth · Aug 17, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

I did nothing other than believe when I received Christ, so I cannot boast of works. However now that I am in Christ and He in me I am a debtor to not live after the flesh(sin nature), but to mortify the deeds of the flesh.

Romans 8.12

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

eternally-gratefull · Aug 17, 2016

simplifiedtruth said:

so you try to keep your salvation by works?

Again,, If you have true faith you will work. Hebrews shows us faith is not in things seen, but in things not seen..

What is your faiht in? The law or God?

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