(ritual) circumcisions today

[simplifiedtruth]

You mean THIS Paul?

"Watch out for those dogs, those people who do evil, those mutilators who say you must be circumcised to be saved. For we who worship by the Spirit of God are the ones who are truly circumcised. We rely on what Christ Jesus has done for us. We put no confidence in human effort, though I could have confidence in my own effort if anyone could. Indeed, if others have reason for confidence in their own efforts, I have even more!

I was circumcised when I was eight days old. I am a pure-blooded citizen of Israel and a member of the tribe of Benjamin—a real Hebrew if there ever was one! I was a member of the Pharisees, who demand the strictest obedience to the Jewish law. I was so zealous that I harshly persecuted the church. And as for righteousness, I obeyed the law without fault.

I once thought these things were valuable, but now I consider them worthless because of what Christ has done. Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ and become one with him. I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith." (Philippians 3:2-9)

Philippians 3:2

Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. (but confidence in the spirit).

9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Romans 2:25

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The real circumcision is not a confidence in the flesh, but the circumcision which is of he heart and in the spirit whose praise is of God. If you have confidence in the circumcision of the flesh and not in the heart it is vain. Does that mean circumcision of the flesh is dis-annulled ? It does not mean that. "For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision." (A heart matter)

 

[FreeNChrist]

Philippians 3:2

Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. (but confidence in the spirit).

9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Romans 2:25

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The real circumcision is not a confidence in the flesh, but the circumcision which is of he heart and in the spirit whose praise is of God. If you have confidence in the circumcision of the flesh and not in the heart it is vain. Does that mean circumcision of the flesh is dis-annulled ? It does not mean that. "For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision." (A heart matter)

You have a remarkable ability for totally ignoring what God is saying directly to you.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

You have a remarkable ability for totally ignoring what God is saying directly to you.

What about post #165 ? Its pretty clear Paul does not agree with your conclusion. It is very clear what he's position on the matter is. Paul is trying to explain something Spiritual but people always lean towards the carnal understanding not considering the the truth of the matter but sectioning parts of he's words which in an isolated state tells them something else than what he was talking about.

 

[FreeNChrist]

What about post #165 ? Its pretty clear Paul does not agree with your conclusion. It is very clear what he's position on the matter is. Paul is trying to explain something Spiritual but people always lean towards the carnal understanding not considering the the truth of the matter but sectioning parts of he's words which in an isolated state tells them something else than what he was talking about.

If you knew Paul's "position" you wouldn't be here working against it.

 

[Magenta]

Paul is trying to explain something Spiritual but people always lean towards the carnal understanding not considering the the truth of the matter but sectioning parts of he's words which in an isolated state tells them something else than what he was talking about.

Yes, that very aptly describes what you do.

These are a shadow of the things that were to come;
the reality, however, is found in Christ.

 

[garee]

That conclusion that I am not a follower of Christ but a pharisee of the circumcision party is ridiculous. Lol, what I am saying is those false brethren were those of the circumcision party who tried to hinder the truth of the gospel.

Paul was not against circumcision (not the sect). Neither was he against the law of God. Remember Jesus warning about thinking so (Matthew 5:17-19)

Circumcision is a ceremonial law in respect to the temporal flesh as a shadow used up until the time of reformation. It really has nothing to do with the persecution against; “all things written in the law and the prophets” (sola scriptura) .It God’s word inspired from heaven it is what was being persecuted .

It, as it is written simply got in the way of the oral traditions (Ruach HaKodesh) of the fathers making their traditions of men without effect.

Yes Paul who followed a “law of the fathers” (the confederacy) with a false zeal for God after the father of lies was against the faith of God, as it is written..... in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) the one source of true zeal towards God .

The law of the father as mere commandments of sinful men required others not to hearken unto the word of God as it is written. .This is so they could rather do whatsoever came from their own mouth as a oral tradition (Christ's nemesis.)

I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the “law of the fathers”, and was zealous toward God(false zealously ) , as ye all are this day.And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. Act 22:3-4

The officiators, high priest who acted as a Pope even gave personal letters giving their personal approval to get rid of that which was seen, as in out of sight out of mind. This showed they were not walking by the faith of God that comes from hearing Him alone.

As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.Act 22:5

Because the “law of the fathers” required men put their faith in their flesh it was by them they measured that kind of upside down faith, as that coming from the clay and not the Potter as if he had no understanding to offer and we need men to teach us.. which only equals blasphemy at the very least .

This is shown in the example below revealing to us just who were Christ’s nemesis.

Fill ye up then the “measure of your fathers” .Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Mat 23:32

Saul persecuted to death those of the Nazarene denomination. This was until his born again experience when the word of God pricked his conscience when things were tuned right side up.

Paul found it hard to kick against pricks of the word of God, as it is written in the law and the prophets(sola scriptura) Then his previous denomination the Pharisees with Sadducees persecuted Paul, as unto death. according to the law of their fathers in whom they measured their faith in respect to.

This can be seen below by the phrase ; “and would have judged according to our law” again as mere commandments of sinful men. Not the law of God, as it is written. The law those fathers kind of fathers were trying to make without effect.

For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law. Act 24:5

What did Paul say that provides us with the answer leading to the true zeal, not after the fathers(their law) as if we did need men to teach us ?

Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, "believing" all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Act 24:13

Hersey is opinion and not law. Paul in affect told them the same thing Jesus told them. Well then measure your faith in respect to the sinful fathers . If you want to call believing all things written in the law and prophets(sola scriptura) mere opinions ...then by that (sola scriptura) I worship the God of our fathers .And not according to the law of the fathers where men worship or called venerate men called fathers, as if they were in the place of our Father in heaven .

God forbids we blaspheme His name in that way..

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

Yes, that very aptly describes what you do.

These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

You try to dis-annul the natural because of the Spiritual, when the fact is the Spiritual will manifest the natural. This shows where your heart truly lies.

 

[emjcares]

You still think Paul is talking about teaching not to circumcise (physically) in he's letters. The truth is he is talking about the circumcision party of the pharisees which did not believe on Christ and were still trying to be justified without him according to the old way of sacrifice.

No, he's referring to those who claimed to believe in Jesus, (like you do), but were insisting that circumcision (flesh) was necessary for salvation or for remaining saved, (like you do)

That's why he asked, rhetorically, 'What, having begun in the Spirit (having been saved by God through FAITH in Jesus) are you now made perfect (completed, finished) in the flesh? (by circumcision)

The obvious answer is, 'No! Of course not, that CAN'T be, because our salvation, as well as our keeping, is by God's grace through faith in Jesus.'

Circumcision (flesh) avails nothing, and if you insist on it, you are denying the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice and His ability to keep us.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

It all comes down to: do we accept God's right ruling in our lives in the NT as Christians or do we go on to establish our own righteousness, by saying Christ taught something different than what He did. If you cant accept Matthew 5:17-19, then how can you accept anything else?, what so ever that might be ? It is a willful rejection of Christs Word. The Word of God stands firm. What He did say in Matthew 5:17-19 is not going to go away or become invalid no matter how much anyone tries to use the bible falsely to explain it away. Those who do are in error and blinded to themselves.

 

[Grace777x70]

It all comes down to: do we accept God's right ruling in our lives in the NT or do we go on to establish our own righteousness, by saying Christ taught something different that what He did. If you cant accept Matthew 5:17-19, then how can you accept anything else?, what so ever that might be ? It is a willful rejection of Christs Word. The Word of God stands firm. What He did say in Matthew 5:17-19 is not going to go away or become invalid no matter how much anyone tries to use the bible falsely to explain it away. Those who do are in error and blinded to themselves.

All Christians accept Matt.5:17-19. What Christians are saying is that they don't agree with your "law-keepers" "application" of what Jesus said. Jesus fulfilled all the Law and now we live in Him with complete reliance on Him and His finished work.

This is why we died with Jesus on the cross SO THAT we could be joined to Him now and not the Law because we died to the Law.

 

[garee]

You try to dis-annul the natural because of the Spiritual, when the fact is the Spiritual will manifest the natural. This shows where your heart truly lies.

Our heart is where our treasure is .(Not of here under the Sun) Our newly created hearts have nothing to do with the flesh as that seen, but rather by a faith that alone comes from hearing God, the unseen.

.
The supernatural, without genesis, a beginning. therefore no end, spiritually dispels the natural showing it will return to the lifeless, spiritless dust in was formed of. we simply do not know Christ after the rudiments of this world to include lifeless, spiritless flesh and blood

Yes the spiritual will manifest the natural flesh as that which cannot (impossible) as flesh and blood enter the new heavens and earth .We will have a new incorruptible body that will never age in a decaying process leading to death .

The ceremonial laws as shadows were needed until the time of reformation .It has come and is why we hear no bleating of the sheep or someone trying to mend the veil that God tore from the top to the bottom. .

Remember until that time . Remember Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God has come in the flesh. Looking for him again to demonstrate the work of the Spirit unseen would be to promote double jeopardy . I think once was enough?

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure(parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them “until” the time of reformation. Heb 9:8

Are you still waiting for the reformation to come?

 

[simplifiedtruth]

All Christians accept Matt.5:17-19. What Christians are saying is that they don't agree with your "law-keepers" "application" of what Jesus said. Jesus fulfilled all the Law and now we live in Him with complete reliance on Him and His finished work.

This is why we died with Jesus on the cross SO THAT we could be joined to Him now and not the Law because we died to the Law.

You are doing it again. What you are saying is contrary to what He is saying in Matthew 5:17-19 when you come to the conclusion Jesus has done away with the law.

I think I have explained to you with the Word countless times clearly what was done away with when Jesus died. Yet it seems as every time I do you have never taken any of it into consideration. That makes me question where your position is of final authority of Truth is, which is the bible. And that not in an isolated state either, but line upon line.

 

[Magenta]

If you cant accept Matthew 5:17-19, then how can you accept anything else?

I do accept it. It condemns you. Every jot and tittle of the law is a curse to you and condemns you, and everyone else who rejects what Jesus did in fulfilling the law for us to become our spotless propitiatory sacrifice and paying our sin debt. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Love is the fulfillment of the law. You are stuck in the old of 2000 years ago and more, while Jesus has moved us into the new, a better covenant of which the old was preparing the world for.

In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ,

 

[KohenMatt]

I'm happy to say my newest son was circumcised on the 8th day. It was done by a Jewish Mo'el in our home. My son before him was circumcised in a typical doctor's office and it was terrible. It was long, painful and terrible to watch with weeks of recovery. This recent circumcision was done in 1 minute, with no bleeding and only a few days of discomfort.

Why did we do it? Other than health benefits....obedience to the command, it's a sign of commitment of us as parents to raise our son in God's ways. A sign of remembrance to our son as he grows up. And most importantly, it is a picture of the circumcision of the heart that God does.

 

[FreeNChrist]

It all comes down to: do we accept God's right ruling in our lives in the NT as Christians or do we go on to establish our own righteousness, by saying Christ taught something different than what He did. If you cant accept Matthew 5:17-19, then how can you accept anything else?, what so ever that might be ? It is a willful rejection of Christs Word. The Word of God stands firm. What He did say in Matthew 5:17-19 is not going to go away or become invalid no matter how much anyone tries to use the bible falsely to explain it away. Those who do are in error and blinded to themselves.

"And be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil. 3:9

 

[Magenta]

I'm happy to say my newest son was circumcised on the 8th day. It was done by a Jewish Mo'el in our home. My son before him was circumcised in a typical doctor's office and it was terrible. It was long, painful and terrible to watch with weeks of recovery. This recent circumcision was done in 1 minute, with no bleeding and only a few days of discomfort.

Why did we do it? Other than health benefits....obedience to the command, it's a sign of commitment of us as parents to raise our son in God's ways. A sign of remembrance to our son as he grows up. And most importantly, it is a picture of the circumcision of the heart that God does.

I suspect you know that neither his nor your salvation is dependent on that act, though.

 

[Dan_473]

I'm happy to say my newest son was circumcised on the 8th day. It was done by a Jewish Mo'el in our home. My son before him was circumcised in a typical doctor's office and it was terrible. It was long, painful and terrible to watch with weeks of recovery. This recent circumcision was done in 1 minute, with no bleeding and only a few days of discomfort.

Why did we do it? Other than health benefits....obedience to the command, it's a sign of commitment of us as parents to raise our son in God's ways. A sign of remembrance to our son as he grows up. And most importantly, it is a picture of the circumcision of the heart that God does.

the whole law is fulfilled by loving your neighbor.

Circumcision is ritualized genital mutilation. God commanded Israel to do it... but there's no reason for gentiles.

 

[KohenMatt]

I suspect you know that neither his nor your salvation is dependent on that act, though.

Of course.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

the whole law is fulfilled by loving your neighbor.

Circumcision is ritualized genital mutilation. God commanded Israel to do it... but there's no reason for gentiles.

If you love God, you wont fight against He's commandments. There is One Lord, one gospel and one faith. One law is for the stranger and to the natural born Israelite. We have time to learn the commandments of God because we have grace.

 

[Grace777x70]

You are doing it again. What you are saying is contrary to what He is saying in Matthew 5:17-19 when you come to the conclusion Jesus has done away with the law.

I think I have explained to you with the Word countless times clearly what was done away with when Jesus died. Yet it seems as every time I do you have never taken any of it into consideration. That makes me question where your position is of final authority of Truth is, which is the bible. And that not in an isolated state either, but line upon line.

It simply means that Christians do not agree with your law-keepers "application" of Matt. 5:17-19. Going back to the Law for living is making the grace of God of none effect in our lives. It is anti-Christ in it's beliefs. The just shall live by faith. The Law is not of faith and Law keepers trying to get Christians to live by the Law now are Judaizers.

Paul had harsh things to say about them. The "law-keepers" are perverting the gospel of the grace of Christ in exchange for what "they do to keep the Law". It is an anti-Christ belief system. Remember Paul said in the last days people would NOT be anti-God but anti-Christ. Law-keepers doctrine is anti-Christ.