(ritual) circumcisions today

[Grace777x70]

Law-keepers have a very low opinion of the Law. The Law says in Ex 35:2 that they are to put to death anyone that works on the Sabbath. Have any of you done that yet?

There are literally lot's of examples of this nature that "law-keepers" break every day. James says that if we offend in one point - we are guilty of it all.

The most important thing they do is that they leave out Christ for their own law-keeping methods and water down the Law to make it look "do-able".

 

[simplifiedtruth]

It simply means that Christians do not agree with your law-keepers "application" of Matt. 5:17-19. Going back to the Law for living is making the grace of God of none effect in our lives. It is anti-Christ in it's beliefs. The just shall live by faith. The Law is not of faith and Law keepers trying to get Christians to live by the Law now are Judaizers.

Paul had harsh things to say about them. The "law-keepers" are perverting the gospel of the grace of Christ in exchange for what "they do".

Then you are giving people a free license to continue to sin, since there is no law. Grace is given so we can come back to God and learn He's right rulings. Grace is not given for the purpose that you are to continue to sin, but for a reversal away from it. It is not up to each individual to define what sin is. When we all agree on what God has said there will be no confusion of the matter and we wont go wrong on those matters. If you say there is no such thing anymore then thats where the problems are gonna come from. The reason there are so many religious sects of christianity is because so many of them teach that God's instructions are done away with. Yet they all claim their sect is the right one and so many else have it wrong.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

Law-keepers have a very low opinion of the Law. The Law says in Ex 35:2 that they are to put to death anyone that works on the Sabbath. Have any of you done that yet?

There are literally lot's of examples of this nature that "law-keepers" break every day. James says that if we offend in one point - we are guilty of it all.

The most important thing they do is that they leave out Christ for their own law-keeping methods and water down the Law to make it look "do-able".

All judgment has been given to the Son and He will reward everyone according to their own works in the resurrection. People who practice such sin are to be separated from God's people, which is the same as death unless they repent. Remember those who are complete in their transgressions and those who don't know Christ are already walking dead people. God is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living.

 

[PennEd]

If you love God, you wont fight against He's commandments. There is One Lord, one gospel and one faith. One law is for the stranger and to the natural born Israelite. We have time to learn the commandments of God because we have grace.

Textbook example of a Judaizer!

You should re-read Peter's speech to the council on Acts 15.

 

[Grace777x70]

Then you are giving people a free license to continue to sin, since there is no law. Grace is given so we can come back to God and learn He's right rulings. Grace is not given for the purpose that you are to continue to sin, but for a reversal away from it. It is not up to each individual to define what sin is. When we all agree on what God has said there will be no confusion of the matter and we wont go wrong on those matters. If you say there is no such thing anymore then thats where the problems are gonna come from. The reason there are so many religious sects of christianity is because so many of them teach that God's instructions are done away with. Yet they all claim their sect is the right one and so many else have it wrong.

That is what your natural mind thinks that grace gives people a license to sin but if you knew the gospel of Christ you would know that we are free from sin because we are not under law but under grace only.

You continually leave out Christ in your self-effort law-keeping. We are in Christ now and His life is in us and the Holy Spirit is what directs us. You are trying to be your own "god" which is why "Law-keepers" are anti-Christ in their belief system.

Romans 6:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.

The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24

The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.

But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

Textbook example of a Judaizer!

You should re-read Peter's speech to the council on Acts 15.

It was not allowed for unbelievers or "infidels" to assemble with the Jahudean. The decision made was that those gentiles who had received the same Holy Spirit of promise as them were being purified by the faith which were working in their hearts. They were commanded to abstain from four things which was to be expected of them to come and learn Moses and Christ being preached in the synagogues every sabbath. Moses of old times were preached everywhere among the Jahudeans every sabbath in the synagogues but it was not so for the new-coming gentiles who lived as the pagans did(hence they were not circumcised and living according to the law of God). It is not talking about that the new-coming gentiles are only to do those four things while in the faith of Christ, but about what was to be expected from them. There is one God, one gospel and one faith as Paul said. Not to put any difference between the Jahudean and the Greek.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

That is what your natural mind thinks that grace gives people a license to sin but if you knew the gospel of Christ you would know that we are free from sin because we are not under law but under grace only.

You continually leave out Christ in your self-effort law-keeping. We are in Christ now and His life is in us and the Holy Spirit is what directs us. You are trying to be your own "god" which is why "Law-keepers" are anti-Christ in their belief system.

The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.

But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Those who walk with Christ are not walking in the flesh but in the Spirit. You seriously need to stop saying the law of God is done away with. You have failed to understand what law Paul is talking about. How is giving up on sin and being dominated by the flesh by walking in the Spirit of Christ which loves the law of God after the inward man the same as leaving out Christ and thinking one is still standing without sin by trying to keep the law ?

So we agree that breaking the law of God is sin. Then why would you be against wanting to follow it because we have the love of God in our hearts by the faith which is in Christ ?

 

[emjcares]

I suspect you know that neither his nor your salvation is dependent on that act, though.

His words say yes, but his actions say no.

the whole law is fulfilled by loving your neighbor.

Circumcision is ritualized genital mutilation. God commanded Israel to do it... but there's no reason for gentiles.

How many other rituals does he obey. Or ignore?

I'm happy to say my newest son was circumcised on the 8th day. It was done by a Jewish Mo'el in our home. My son before him was circumcised in a typical doctor's office and it was terrible. It was long, painful and terrible to watch with weeks of recovery.This recent circumcision was done in 1 minute, with no bleeding and only a few days of discomfort.

Why did we do it? Other than health benefits....obedience to the command, it's a sign of commitment of us as parents to raise our son in God's ways. A sign of remembrance to our son as he grows up. And most importantly, it is a picture of the circumcision of the heart that God does.

*I hope the kid is ok and not scarred or traumatized for life.*
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here we have another example of people using ceremonial laws to cause division. How many things do we need to divide over?

If it's not tongues, it's water-baptism. If not that, it's communion. This time it's male circumcision (flesh)

And underneath, there's 'suppos-ed' obedience, and the division comes from those who say they're being obedient to the law, and therefore, by implication, those who do not do those things must be disobedient.

If one says he gets circumcised (flesh) to be obedient, and someone else says they don't have to be in order to be saved, the first one has set himself up as being superior, saying he is obedient, but the other is not.

I always have to come back to this:
Do you want to get circumcised, baptised, or other-ized?
Go ahead, as long as your ego doesn't get super-sized,
or your sister or brother, ostracized.

IOW, If you REALLY feel that God wants you to do something, or not,
have it to yourself with the Lord.

But if you bring it out to place a law or burden on another, and set yourself up as the arbittor of God's 'requirements' for salvation or sanctification, and make your brother feel like a 'less-than-proper' christian, you're responsible for dividing and separating members of Christ's body, and you malign the grace of God.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Then you are giving people a free license to continue to sin, since there is no law.

Oops, there it is.

 

[Grace777x70]

Those who walk with Christ are not walking in the flesh but in the Spirit. You seriously need to stop saying the law of God is done away with. You have failed to understand what law Paul is talking about. How is giving up on sin and being dominated by the flesh by walking in the Spirit of Christ which loves the law of God after the inward man the same as leaving out Christ and thinking one is still standing without sin by trying to keep the law ?

So we agree that breaking the law of God is sin. Then why would you be against wanting to follow it because we have the love of God in our hearts by the faith which is in Christ ?

Again you fail to understand the gospel of Christ. Christians are not under Law in any form no matter how much Judaizers say they are. We Christians have died to the Law SO THAT we could be joined to Another - Jesus Himself. We are not in the flesh but in the Spirit 24/7.

Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

It is by the Spirit that we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires - not by "obeying the Law". Romans 13:14 ; Gal. 5:16

I really encourage you to ask the Lord to reveal His gospel of the grace of Christ to you so that you can be free from being under the Law and live by Christ's life instead of your own attempts of self-righteousness.

"Keeping the Law" does not make you righteous. This is the anti-Christ belief of "law-keepers". We can trust His life in us to lead us now that we are dead to the Law and alive unto God through our co-crucifixation and resurrection with Christ.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

[Dan_473]

If you love God, you wont fight against He's commandments. There is One Lord, one gospel and one faith. One law is for the stranger and to the natural born Israelite. We have time to learn the commandments of God because we have grace.

it's great learning God's commandments. At the same time, learn that they are all fulfilled in loving your neighbor.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

You are right. We are not "under the law"(Old covenant) but we are most definitely obliged to learn it and do it. Saying the contrary is to encourage people to commit sin, and not to encourage people live to live Holy lives as good examples.

 

[emjcares]

it's great learning God's commandments. At the same time, learn that they are all fulfilled in loving your neighbor.

Loving the Lord, our God, and loving our neighbor as ourself.
(But I know you know that)

 

[Dan_473]

Law-keepers have a very low opinion of the Law. The Law says in Ex 35:2 that they are to put to death anyone that works on the Sabbath. Have any of you done that yet?

There are literally lot's of examples of this nature that "law-keepers" break every day. James says that if we offend in one point - we are guilty of it all.

The most important thing they do is that they leave out Christ for their own law-keeping methods and water down the Law to make it look "do-able".

good point about killing the sabbath-breaker.


it's illegal according to most secular governments, but if a person honestly believes God commands it, then this kicks in

29 But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men."
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+5&version=NASB

 

[Magenta]

Those who walk with Christ are not walking in the flesh but in the Spirit. You seriously need to stop saying the law of God is done away with. You have failed to understand what law Paul is talking about. How is giving up on sin and being dominated by the flesh by walking in the Spirit of Christ which loves the law of God after the inward man the same as leaving out Christ and thinking one is still standing without sin by trying to keep the law ?

So we agree that breaking the law of God is sin.

All sin except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has been forgiven at the cross, and we are inheritors of the promises through our faith, which is a gift from God. You deny the work of the cross and wish to lay a yoke on those who live by faith, to say they must live by the law, even though Jesus, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. Our circumcision is of the heart, a spiritual circumcision, while you cling to the shadow of what physical circumcision was pointing forward to. You do not live in the Light, but shadows, and blaspheme the work of God, Whose plan of salvation through Jesus Christ was laid before the foundation of the world.

 

[Dan_473]

Then you are giving people a free license to continue to sin, since there is no law. Grace is given so we can come back to God and learn He's right rulings. Grace is not given for the purpose that you are to continue to sin, but for a reversal away from it. It is not up to each individual to define what sin is. When we all agree on what God has said there will be no confusion of the matter and we wont go wrong on those matters. If you say there is no such thing anymore then thats where the problems are gonna come from. The reason there are so many religious sects of christianity is because so many of them teach that God's instructions are done away with. Yet they all claim their sect is the right one and so many else have it wrong.

not living according to the law of moses is not the same as living without instruction or direction.

 

[KohenMatt]

His words say yes, but his actions say no.

How many other rituals does he obey. Or ignore?

If you're referring to me, which actions have I believe negates salvation through Jesus?
I don't pay attention to "rituals," instead following God's commands. And I follow all the ones that physically applicable. And if they're not applicable physically (i.e. sacrifices, other temple commands,) they're applicable spiritually. So I don't ignore any of them.

*I hope the kid is ok and not scarred or traumatized for life.*

Why would he be?

Here we have another example of people using ceremonial laws to cause division. How many things do we need to divide over?

If it's not tongues, it's water-baptism. If not that, it's communion. This time it's male circumcision (flesh)

And underneath, there's 'suppos-ed' obedience, and the division comes from those who say they're being obedient to the law, and therefore, by implication, those who do not do those things must be disobedient.

If one says he gets circumcised (flesh) to be obedient, and someone else says they don't have to be in order to be saved, the first one has set himself up as being superior, saying he is obedient, but the other is not.

In my case, how am I causing division? What have I said that indicates I'm superior and those who don't circumcise are inferior? So let's change up your statement a little.

If someone says they don't have to be circumcised in order to be saved, and someone else says he gets circumcised (flesh) to be obedient, the first one has set himself up as being superior saying he is obedient, but the other is not.

Are you saying anything like that?

I always have to come back to this:
Do you want to get circumcised, baptised, or other-ized?
Go ahead, as long as your ego doesn't get super-sized,
or your sister or brother, ostracized.

IOW, If you REALLY feel that God wants you to do something, or not,
have it to yourself with the Lord.

But if you bring it out to place a law or burden on another, and set yourself up as the arbittor of God's 'requirements' for salvation or sanctification, and make your brother feel like a 'less-than-proper' christian, you're responsible for dividing and separating members of Christ's body, and you malign the grace of God.

Again, if you're referencing me and my stance on law and salvation, you're completely wrong. I have never said my obedience or lack thereof to the Law has any bearing on my salvation. That is through GRACE alone. Hopefully that isn't the case.

A common practice of anti-law people is to assume the pro-law keepers are following it for salvation purposes, even though nothing indicates that stance. That makes the anti-law argument sound a lot better when it's applied to people it doesn't apply to.

 

[Dan_473]

It was not allowed for unbelievers or "infidels" to assemble with the Jahudean. The decision made was that those gentiles who had received the same Holy Spirit of promise as them were being purified by the faith which were working in their hearts. They were commanded to abstain from four things which was to be expected of them to come and learn Moses and Christ being preached in the synagogues every sabbath. Moses of old times were preached everywhere among the Jahudeans every sabbath in the synagogues but it was not so for the new-coming gentiles who lived as the pagans did(hence they were not circumcised and living according to the law of God). It is not talking about that the new-coming gentiles are only to do those four things while in the faith of Christ, but about what was to be expected from them. There is one God, one gospel and one faith as Paul said. Not to put any difference between the Jahudean and the Greek.

Acts 15 is about how gentiles and Jews can live together in the same church without offending each other

where is Moses read every sabbath?

21 For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read
in the synagogues
every Sabbath.”

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+15&version=NASB

 

[KohenMatt]

it's great learning God's commandments. At the same time, learn that they are all fulfilled in loving your neighbor.

Which means we don't have to pay attention to them or do them? Just love our neighbor in random and abstract ways that feel right to us and have no Biblical precedent.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

not living according to the law of moses is not the same as living without instruction or direction.

Where do you go to to learn what God permit and don't permit and about what He expect of us as He's children ? And what is the standard of Truth of what is right and wrong ? Also if you have no knowledge of He's right rulings how can you cast down every imagination that is contrary to God ? If everybody is a book to themselves, how do we extinguish when someone is in error ? After all believers are not immune to being in error. Far from it. So how would you judge that ? After all such a person would think himself to be right as well as the other person when he is in error believing a lie.