Charismatic - Losing Faith (Healing)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

Ed_4325

Guest
#81
This is not about you but about Christ. You are here to testify of His ability to save souls from eternal condemnation.
I have trouble wrapping my head around a God who would create us...just to play a game of who goes to hell and who doesn't. There has to be more to our purpose than just that
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A

Ariel82

Guest
#82
If you look up Sidon you will find out that it is in Lebannon. Luke 4:26 They were actually Phoenicians and the widow was not Jewish.

Jesus was talking to the people in Capernaum "about" the widow that was from Sidon. You got yourself mixed up there. The widow was not from
Capernaum - she was definitely a Gentile.
Ummmmm....not sure how to say this politely....but perhaps you should read the quoted chapter?

It didn't take place in Capernaum,Jesus made reference to doing miracles in that town. Sidon was meant to be part of Israel and I don't see anything in the Bible to assume the widow was a gentile or the need to.

Luke: 4. 16. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. -

.....but we are off topic, so maybe we can continue on a different thread if you like?

Sorry Ed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#83
Ummmmm....not sure how to say this politely....but perhaps you should read the quoted chapter?

It didn't take place in Capernaum,Jesus made reference to doing miracles in that town. Sidon was meant to be part of Israel and I don't see anything in the Bible to assume the widow was a gentile or the need to.

Luke: 4. 16. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. -

.....but we are off topic, so maybe we can continue on a different thread if you like?

Sorry Ed.
I agree..Jesus was talking to the people in Nazareth about Capernaum ..my mistake as I was just zooming in on the widow from Sidon which was definitely a Gentile.

Here is the quoted chapter and verse. I don't see how you are missing this. The widow referred to was not Jewish - she was a Gentile from Sidon. The widow referred to was the one Elijah was sent to in 1 Kings 18. She has nothing to do with Nazareth, Capernaum or Israel.

Both people that Jesus referred to in Luke 4:25-27 were Gentiles that had God care for them and not to any Jews which is why the Jews were mad at Jesus when He said these things.

Jesus said that no one was sent to any of the Jews but only to a Gentile women in Sidon and also only to Naaman the Syrian but not to any Jews.

Luke 4:25-28 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] "But I say to you in truth, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the sky was shut up for three years and six months, when a great famine came over all the land;

[SUP]26 [/SUP] and yet Elijah was sent to none of them, but only to Zarephath, in the land of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow.

[SUP]27 [/SUP] "And there were many lepers in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, but only Naaman the Syrian."

[SUP]28 [/SUP] And all the people in the synagogue were filled with rage as they heard these things;

So where is Zarephath and what is its biblical significance? Zarephath is an ancient city on the coast of Phoenicia, about 8 miles (13 km) south of Sidon and 14 miles (22 km) north of Tyre.

Zarephath was in the territory of Sidon, the homeland of Queen Jezebel and a region where Baal was worshipped.

BiblePlaces Blog: Picture of the Week: Zarephath

There is no need for another thread. You are just confusing the Gentile widow from Sidon as if she was a Jew. Honestly for the life of me I can't see how you can't see this... but if you can't see that - then just forget it. It's really not important and we can leave the rest of the thread for discussing about healing....:)
 
Last edited:
A

Ariel82

Guest
#84
23. And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#85
Sidon

G1 on the Map.
Sidon in Fausset's Bible Dictionary. ("fishing town"); SIDON or ZIDON. Genesis 10:9; Genesis 10:15; Joshua 11:8; Joshua 19:28; Judges 1:31. Sidon was in Asher (Isaiah 23:2; Isaiah 23:4; Isaiah 23:12). An ancient mercantile city of Phoenicia, in the narrow plain between Lebanon and the Mediterranean, where the mountains recede two miles from the sea; 20 miles N. of Tyre. Now Saida. Old Sidon stands on the northern slope of a promontory projecting a few hundred yards into the sea, having thus "a fine naturally formed harbour" (Strabo)... Joel reproves Sidon and Tyre for selling children of Judah and Jerusalem to the Grecians, and threatens them with a like fate, Judah selling their sons and daughters to the Sabeans. So Ezekiel (Ezekiel 28:22-24) threatens Sidon with pestilence and blood in her streets, so that she shall be no more a pricking brier unto Israel. Jesus went once to the coasts of Tyre and Sidon (Matthew 15:21). Paul touched at Sidon on his voyage from Caesarea to Rome (Acts 27:3); by Julius' courteous permission Paul there "went unto his friends to refresh himself." Tyre and Sidon's doom shall be more tolerable in the day of judgment than that of those who witnessed Christ's works and teaching, yet repented not (Matthew 11:21-22). On a coin of the age of Antiochus IV Tyre claims to be "mother of the Sidonians," being at that time the capital city.
Sidon - Biblical Definition of Sidon in Fausset's Bible Dictionary (Bible History Online)
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#86
Okay.....back to healing scriptures......


*****

1 Kings: 17. 8. And the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, 9. Arise, get thee to Zarephath, which belongeth to Zidon, and dwell there: behold, I have commanded a widow woman there to sustain thee. 10. So he arose and went to Zarephath. And when he came to the gate of the city, behold, the widow woman was there gathering of sticks: and he called to her, and said, Fetch me, I pray thee, a little water in a vessel, that I may drink. 11. And as she was going to fetch it, he called to her, and said, Bring me, I pray thee, a morsel of bread in thine hand. 12. And she said, As the LORD thy God liveth, I have not a cake, but an handful of meal in a barrel, and a little oil in a cruse: and, behold, I am gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that we may eat it, and die. 13. And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son. 14. For thus saith the LORD God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the LORD sendeth rain upon the earth. 15. And she went and did according to the saying of Elijah: and she, and he, and her house, did eat many days. 16. And the barrel of meal wasted not, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by Elijah. 17. And it came to pass after these things, that the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, fell sick; and his sickness was so sore, that there was no breath left in him. 18. And she said unto Elijah, What have I to do with thee, O thou man of God? art thou come unto me to call my sin to remembrance, and to slay my son? 19. And he said unto her, Give me thy son. And he took him out of her bosom, and carried him up into a loft, where he abode, and laid him upon his own bed. 20. And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son? 21. And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again. 22. And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived. 23. And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth. 24. And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of the LORD in thy mouth is truth.
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#87
Of course christian maturity is complete reliance on Christ.

Daily reading the Word, fellowship in a biblical church.. fellowship with fellow church members etc.. is empowered first by allowing Christ to rule your soul.

I never meant that is wasn't empowered by Him first.

Look.. the ops topic is that he is struggling with his faith because he is seeing holes in the charismatic teachings and theology..

The charismatic teachings not being sound.. he is (it seems to me) then going to the point of disbelieving in God.

But there is a whole other side to christianity that isn't reliant on signs and wonders, tongues and prophecy etc.. so that THE faith is not grounded miracles, signs, wonders etc.. but in quiet times with Jesus, fellowship with fellow church members and daily meditation on the Word etc..

I am mostly agreeing with you on Jesus being the empowerer.. where I would disagree is on what is emphasised in the christian walk.

These are extremes.. but explain a little of what I am getting at :

'I'm praying for a miracle to heal my daughter of this disease' - a statement like this I have seen with a charismatic christian

'I'm taking my daughter to the doctor.. God has provided us with the right skilled people to take care of her.. and there are medicines God has also provided the doctor can administer'

- a possible statement on someone not reliant on miracles but knows God works 'in the balances' 'tipping the scales' rather than every time.. full 100 percent healing.

For myself, it was not an "of course Christian maturity was total reliance on Christ" That 'reliance' comes in places that we have been taught to rely on ourselves for. Such as a paycheck., our jobs., our children. I was taught that if I was not actively "concerned" to the degree that I was actually worrying and rushing in to fix and manipulate the situation that I as not really taking care of the concern responsibly.

It takes a stepping back and giving something as major as our kids and our livelihood over to Him to open the doors or shut them. To literally let go of our hold on those major things in our lives. I'm telling you most of us can't do that and have to be re-taught allllll over again how to do it the correct way.

We can't allow Jesus to "rule in our soul" until we have a revelation of His love for us. How can we trust God if we don't KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that He loves US personally? As we are in all our ugliness?

When Jesus forgave that woman at the well, He let her see He knew all her deep dark and dirty secrets. She had not one but many men in her life. For whatever reasons she was in that situation, Jesus let her know He sees her whole person and He forgives her and accepts her and loves her as she is the way no one else would or could.

She came to the well when no one else did in the heat of the day. She had a reputation and no doubt she felt the shame of her sin and her life but was not set free. But then Jesus was there waiting for her. He knew she came there to get water. I'm amazed at how He cares for us and even strategically sets up times and places. Will finish this post later.

 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#88
Sidon

G1 on the Map.
Sidon in Fausset's Bible Dictionary. ("fishing town"); SIDON or ZIDON. Genesis 10:9; Genesis 10:15; Joshua 11:8; Joshua 19:28; Judges 1:31. Sidon was in Asher (Isaiah 23:2; Isaiah 23:4; Isaiah 23:12). An ancient mercantile city of Phoenicia, in the narrow plain between Lebanon and the Mediterranean, where the mountains recede two miles from the sea; 20 miles N. of Tyre. Now Saida. Old Sidon stands on the northern slope of a promontory projecting a few hundred yards into the sea, having thus "a fine naturally formed harbour" (Strabo)... Joel reproves Sidon and Tyre for selling children of Judah and Jerusalem to the Grecians, and threatens them with a like fate, Judah selling their sons and daughters to the Sabeans. So Ezekiel (Ezekiel 28:22-24) threatens Sidon with pestilence and blood in her streets, so that she shall be no more a pricking brier unto Israel. Jesus went once to the coasts of Tyre and Sidon (Matthew 15:21). Paul touched at Sidon on his voyage from Caesarea to Rome (Acts 27:3); by Julius' courteous permission Paul there "went unto his friends to refresh himself." Tyre and Sidon's doom shall be more tolerable in the day of judgment than that of those who witnessed Christ's works and teaching, yet repented not (Matthew 11:21-22). On a coin of the age of Antiochus IV Tyre claims to be "mother of the Sidonians," being at that time the capital city.
Sidon - Biblical Definition of Sidon in Fausset's Bible Dictionary (Bible History Online)
None of those Isaiah scriptures above in blue say that Sidon was in Israel. That land was given to Asher but they never did take it and it stayed Canaanite.

They were not Jews there but were in fact Gentiles. I still for the life of me can't see how you fail to see this but anyway I will try one more time to show you. People from Sidon were Canaanites - not Jews.

Genesis 10:19. Sidon as Canaanite neighbors, as well as Gaza, Sadoum and Amoura.

Genesis 49:13. Sidon as the boundary of Zebulun.

Joshua 13:6. Sidon as part of the land promised to Israel.

Joshua 19:28. Sidon was included in the inheritance of Asher, on its northern boundary.

Judges 1:31, 3:3. Sidon was not taken by that tribe in conquest.

Judges 10:6. When Israel was Oppressed Again, served the Baals and the Ashtoreths, the gods of Sidon and other gods.

Isaiah 23:2, 4, 12. Sidon included in the Proclamation Against Tyre

Sidon – Amazing Bible Timeline with World History

Tyre and Sidon were both part of the Promised Land, given to the tribe of Asher to conquer and destroy. Needless to say it didn’t happen, and after a suitable time the Lord withdrew His promise of victory and condemned the Israelites to a future of problems with their neighbors.

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/tyre-and-sidon/


 
P

popeye

Guest
#89
I agree with a lot of this in a lot of cases...but

1) I asked my doctor if my heart disease was due to a poor diet - I'm not obese, but I do eat my McDonald's here and there like any other person. She (my doctor) said that she wouldn't even expect my arteries to look like they do if I had eaten absolutely horribly and I was 65. And that's when I was 31. So if God can heal me - awesome. If God can heal me, but isn't - why? If God can't heal me because healing was only for Jesus' time - then why me, God?
I don't know if I can follow or even wrap my head around believing that there is a God out there that would let his children be sick and not provide a Healer for them. I mean if I were to inject one of my children with a needle full of cancerous cells - I would be put in prison in any country in the world or put to death in many. I just can't believe that God would ever "use" an affliction to further someone's walk...that doesn't sound like God. I'm digressing here and talking to a lot of posters and not just you, but...to the people that mentioned Paul's thorn in his flesh...there are plenty of exigetical writings do prove/provide good apologetics that the thorn was actually PERSECUTION...and NOT sickness.

2) Why didn't God use doctors back then? He used Jesus and others after Jesus to cure people supernaturally. And what about all of the people who came down with afflictions over the years BEFORE medicine was able to cure them. They're just out of luck? What kind of God would He be if He did that?

Please don't take my tone as angry - I know writing can be interpreted incorrectly very easily. I'm very calm as I say all this...I just think they are valid questions for me or anyone else to be asking.

Thanks for your post.
You can have an "open heaven" where you are instantly healed and other prayers quickly answered.

You can have delays,where the answer came after many days,months,years..

The heavens can be brass where you do not hear God at all and he seems to have abandoned you.

You have to hit a point where you get a "starting place"

I gave you one on the first page and you ignored it.

Either get one or go to the doctor
 
E

Ed_4325

Guest
#90
You can have an "open heaven" where you are instantly healed and other prayers quickly answered.

You can have delays,where the answer came after many days,months,years..

The heavens can be brass where you do not hear God at all and he seems to have abandoned you.

You have to hit a point where you get a "starting place"

I gave you one on the first page and you ignored it.

Either get one or go to the doctor
I wouldn't say ignored...there's a lot of posts and I've only been able to pick a few to respond to...that wasn't a starting place though that was a looooot of stuff =) which all sounds good and helpful...unless you meant something else as a starting point
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#91
Ed, God never promised you whole health. Healings are to bolster faith, not impose immortality. Everyone who has received a miracle healing has gone on to die of something later. Whole health comes in the next life. We are given a taste - a taste - of it here and now to encourage us to persevere until then.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
34
#92
Ed, God never promised you whole health. Healings are to bolster faith, not impose immortality. Everyone who has received a miracle healing has gone on to die of something later. Whole health comes in the next life. We are given a taste - a taste - of it here and now to encourage us to persevere until then.
I don't know about you, but I believe the Lord can provide a peaceful death.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#93
A peaceful death, yes. Perfect health and immortality in this flesh, no.
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#94
I don't know about you, but I believe the Lord can provide a peaceful death.


Yes Ben for sure. I'm not sure the place of the verse but I think it is in Romans about the sting of death and Paul saying "oh grave where is thy victory oh death where is thy sting" He has taken the sting of death away. When a believer dies it is a very different thing. We are going towards what we have seen only in part but kept coming back for more and more. To finally get there and see Him as He is without any of the filter must be amazing. To know Him as He is. Entering a place that is not bound by time or space. We humans are sort of like in a fish bowl subject to the smallness and limitations of the bowl. There is another totally different reality apart from our flesh. So much so we need new bodies to be there.
 

Jruiz

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
565
5
18
#95
I was diagnosed with heart disease and told I needed bypass surgery 4.5 years ago. I started going to a charismatic/Kenneth E Hagin-like church a few months after my diagnosis. They believe strongly in laying hands on people and healing.

I went up for healing...believed that I received it...testified to being healed for years...got into leadership...and even left my job to be on staff. A few months ago I started having chest pains, after a series of doctor visits and another angiogram my heart has gotten worse.

I'm fighting to believe all that I've learned...but I'm definitely doubting divine healing...what I REALLY don't like...is it's causing me to doubt almost everything I hear or read. I find myself rolling my eyes at testimonies or people encouraging others with scripture or sayings. Any time I hear a charismatic preacher on tv or YouTube I question what they say. I feel like I'm losing my faith in God. He has to be real.

I really need someone who knows their charismatic apologetics. Please don't waste my time or yours if all you have to chime in with is a bible verse with a short saying attached to it like "John 10:10 the enemy is just trying to kill you"

I need something way solid and explained in detail. Please. Thank you so much!
lemon,ginger,raw garlic,cayenne pepper...Can help with clogged arteries. Cut the processed foods, which contains high amounts of sugar and hydrogenated oils. Adopt a plant base diet...fruit,vegetables,nuts,seeds...Then thank God for all these wonderful foods that were designed for us to nourish our bodies! Oh and find a quality vitamin c supplement.
l ascorbic acid. I've heard it helps repair torn arteries. Oh, and don't forget to exercise. God still heals! And yes,he still works through his servants...I'll pray for you.
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#96
There are actually many miracles being done every day by the Holy Spirit working through believers. The world's news is not going to announce it - of that you can be assured. I have heard of people being raised from the dead in the US.

There is a lot more going on then what we can see from our own little window that we personally travel in or see out of.

I believe all healings to do with the gifts of the Holy Spirit need to be initiated by Him because it is as the Spirit wills that the gifts of the Spirit are manifested - not as "we will". We too can have personal faith for ourselves and those under our authority as many scriptures attest to when we look at the life of Jesus and those who came to Him.



Very much agree with you as always Bruce. We are so programmed as people to just believe what we can see with our own eyes. And since that is the case., we must know based on the Scriptures that satan seeks to blind the minds of those who don't 'believe'. He blinds people's minds and hearts to the truth out there. I have always considered the verses about him being the prince of the power of the air when thinking of the tv and radio and internet. (the air waves)

he and his many demons know how to use people's opinions to lead others astray. Ungodly movie stars who look beautiful on the outside but are dead man's bones on the inside. But everyone is looking at them especially our young people on tv, internet, social media., magazines. Their pictures and stories of their lives everywhere. TV shows and movies lift up wrong as right in our society. It's all distortion and contradiction mixed up with human emotions and seasoned for human consumption.


Why would OR SHOULD we believers who know Jesus ever believe the news reports slant on things? We of all people should be "vigilant" about discerning truth from lies. The way someone dresses or holds their confidence is something we humans admire. It's "natural" for a person to be drawn to certain attributes of others. And our enemy knows us so well and uses every advantage against us humans made in God's image. But we believers are called to more than that.

I've decided it's wise for me to take things and people at a case by case observation. Not to make snap judgments based on what seems to be so. I've seen how for instance there are many preachers in churches and tv who are ungodly and know how to perform before the masses. And yet there are those who are true and although they do well before the masses it is not because of ungodliness but because of their Godliness.

I have never seen anyone risen from the dead or healed from cancer eating away at their bodies and just a year ago I would have had many doctrinal and reasonable answers as to why God would not do that. But today I've seen God go above and beyond my ideas and even wildest dreams of what "God will or will not do" in my own personal life. So NOW I believe 100% that people have been healed and raised from the dead. The Bible says it's so and that makes the reason 100% true. It just took me 40 so years to catch up with the truth of what the Bible says about how great Jesus is and what He can and WILL do in the lives of people.

Just like everyone else I as a Christian thought that Psalm 23 was for the dead people at funerals. I NEVER read Psalm 23 for me as a believer living and walking on the earth. But that is what the Bible is for! Us today. Faith is for the here and now. We won't need to live by faith after we are in heaven.
The Bible is our book for now and so are the promises. When we get to heaven, we will have it all without faith. Now we need faith to have it.

That is why at times it can be soooooooooo discouraging to come to CC and read from otherwise mature believers their denying of healing for today and Him doing many miraculous things in our world. We need faith to have those things now. We won't need faith later. There are Christians that are believing Jesus for many things and seeing them done every day of their lives. And there are believers who are not believing Jesus for many things and not seeing them show out in their lives. I want to be of the first kind.

 
Last edited:

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,236
1,132
113
New Zealand
#97


Very much agree with you as always Bruce. We are so programmed as people to just believe what we can see with our own eyes. And since that is the case., we must know based on the Scriptures that satan seeks to blind the minds of those who don't 'believe'. He blinds people's minds and hearts to the truth out there. I have always considered the verses about him being the prince of the power of the air when thinking of the tv and radio and internet. (the air waves)

he and his many demons know how to use people's opinions to lead others astray. Ungodly movie stars who look beautiful on the outside but are dead man's bones on the inside. But everyone is looking at them especially our young people on tv, internet, social media., magazines. Their pictures and stories of their lives everywhere. TV shows and movies lift up wrong as right in our society. It's all distortion and contradiction mixed up with human emotions and seasoned for human consumption.


Why would OR SHOULD we believers who know Jesus ever believe the news reports slant on things? We of all people should be "vigilant" about discerning truth from lies. The way someone dresses or holds their confidence is something we humans admire. It's "natural" for a person to be drawn to certain attributes of others. And our enemy knows us so well and uses every advantage against us humans made in God's image. But we believers are called to more than that.

I've decided it's wise for me to take things and people at a case by case observation. Not to make snap judgments based on what seems to be so. I've seen how for instance there are many preachers in churches and tv who are ungodly and know how to perform before the masses. And yet there are those who are true and although they do well before the masses it is not because of ungodliness but because of their Godliness.

I have never seen anyone risen from the dead or healed from cancer eating away at their bodies and just a year ago I would have had many doctrinal and reasonable answers as to why God would not do that. But today I've seen God go above and beyond my ideas and even wildest dreams of what "God will or will not do" in my own personal life. So NOW I believe 100% that people have been healed and raised from the dead. The Bible says it's so and that makes the reason 100% true. It just took me 40 so years to catch up with the truth of what the Bible says about how great Jesus is and what He can and WILL do in the lives of people.

Just like everyone else I as a Christian thought that Psalm 23 was for the dead people at funerals. I NEVER read Psalm 23 for me as a believer living and walking on the earth. But that is what the Bible is for! Us today. Faith is for the here and now. We won't need to live by faith after we are in heaven.
The Bible is our book for now and so are the promises. When we get to heaven, we will have it all without faith. Now we need faith to have it.

That is why at times it can be soooooooooo discouraging to come to CC and read from otherwise mature believers their denying of healing for today and Him doing many miraculous things in our world. We need faith to have those things now. We won't need faith later. There are Christians that are believing Jesus for many things and seeing them done every day of their lives. And there are believers who are not believing Jesus for many things and not seeing them show out in their lives. I want to be of the first kind.

I believe the GIFT of miracles given has fulfilled it's purpose and ceases but not God's independent ability to heal miraculously. I also don't know what believers, especially on this site would say God does not heal today. You do realise the majority on this site believe in all gifts in operation for today? (Even tho I'm not in that majority)
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#98
I believe the GIFT of miracles given has fulfilled it's purpose and ceases but not God's independent ability to heal miraculously. I also don't know what believers, especially on this site would say God does not heal today. You do realise the majority on this site believe in all gifts in operation for today? (Even tho I'm not in that majority)
On the contrary Wattie, I've noticed most on this site do not believe in the gifts for today. I believe God heals in many different ways and takes us through the journey. I'm considered a "newbie" when it comes to the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I have been saved since 1982 and we never learned about the gifts for today. And so we always went to those kinds of churches and never heard any thing else but "God may heal but often uses sickness to teach us lessons. God is not going to shield you from sickness and you are just like the rest of the world when it comes to sickness. The rain falls on the just and the unjust.... "

Now I do not believe that way since learning about the love of God in Christ. About who I am in Jesus and the things He provided for me as a daughter in the new covenant of grace. His righteousness is a gift., not something I do. The righteousness of Christ is a gift given when we get saved but many and most Christians are like I was believing we "do" righteous and that means we "are" righteous. We think we go in and out of righteousness like a door. But that was totally not true.

To be a son of Adam I only had to be born. Having done no good or bad thing I was born into Adam's fallen race condemned and cursed because of sin. But when I got saved, Jesus provided a new birth into His race (if you will) I'm now a daughter., a saint., a sheep of His pasture. Born again INTO Christ. Having His righteousness on me and no longer in Adam. How great is that!!??? Before I was in a place basically called sin. Now I am in a place called righteousness. I have His righteousness now.
Is Adam's positions stronger than the one Jesus died to give us? NO

I only learned this recently. Most believe in order to be forgiven you must confess every sin and make sure you don't miss confessing a sin or it won't be forgiven. Who can do that? I never could and always walked in condemnation because the ones I did remember were so stupid I wondered how come I don't have the discipline to just be good all the time and be able to do what is required to please God?? What is wrong with me?? My heart is not good., I prayed that God would "create in me a clean heart oh God., Let me be like You in all my ways.... I sang the song all the time and never got changed. (until I believed in the finished work of Jesus and His righteousness being a gift I received)

I was a daughter of the King but walked around like a poor and needy pauper. My problem was I didn't know I was already new and already had a clean heart. It was given at salvation. David wrote that Psalm and he was not in the new covenant like I am. He had the Holy Spirit come on him but not be in him like I do. The Holy Spirit came and went from people in David's time.

This was a major revelation to me Wattie. And just the beginning of a major change in how my behavior has changed. That verse in Galatians For I am crucified with Christ never the less I live yet not I but Christ lives in me., and the life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Gotta go., finish later.
 
Last edited:
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#99
A brother called Jack Frost was very much into healing by faith, and also into love from the
heart and overcoming the separation of the heart because of hurts in growing up.

He had a great ministry bringing people to see the deep needs in them which needed to be
expressed, forgiveness exercised towards mums and dads, and a new freedom of life.

He was diagnosed with cancer. His attitude was because he had seen God heal people of
such situations this was just another test of faith.

The problem is God is God and all things go to His glory. He sets life in motion and draws it
to a close. But we easily step over this, because we see mortality as reality and not eternity
which goes on forever.

None of us wants to acknowledge the world is brutal, and sin rips so much right out of our hands,
but in the end we must just bow our knees and know Gods ways are higher than our own.

If in just one thing we can bring glory to His name, Amen, for we are dust and He is eternal.
Love is about overcoming situations and being content with His hand. So much here and now
is so full of privilege. So many of my ancestors died long before my current age, so how can I
expect more than what I have been showered with.

I am the son of an accident between two young people, so by many rights I should not exist,
yet He chose to bring me into existance to bring glory to His name, Amen, and Praise the Lord.

Pride of life easily becomes we deserve x rather than we are humble friends of a glorious King,
who in His grace gives us so much to share in His glory through Christ.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
I have trouble wrapping my head around a God who would create us...just to play a game of who goes to hell and who doesn't. There has to be more to our purpose than just that
The chief end of man is to glorify God. I would not be so quick to judge God's motives beyond that point.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass.