Healing - What is this actually?

[Grace777x70]

Our Father is even more wanting for His children to be well. Would we want our own children to be sick to teach them something? Would we put a sickness on our own children?

No, a thousand times No. Our Father loves us more then our mere human love does but He operates from different perspectives and principals then we do on this earth and He wants us well and whole.

.........healing is definitely in the true gospel message.....as can be seen when Paul preached the gospel in Lystra. in Acts 14.

Acts 14:7-10 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] and there they continued to preach the gospel.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] At Lystra a man was sitting who had no strength in his feet, lame from his mother's womb, who had never walked.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] This man was listening to Paul as he spoke, who, when he had fixed his gaze on him and had seen that he had faith to be made well,

[SUP]10 [/SUP] said with a loud voice, "Stand upright on your feet." And he leaped up and began to walk.

Paul was preaching the GOSPEL.... the man lame was listening to Paul and then he had faith to be made whole...

Where did this man get faith to be made whole in his body?

Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

The man that was lame from birth heard in the preaching of the gospel of the grace of Christ that he could be made whole. He believed...Paul saw it in him and encouraged him to act on his faith.

Healing is a part of the gospel of the grace of Christ as the being born-again is.

Listen to what Paul says about being taken captive by human philosophy and man-made traditions rather then the revelation of Christ Himself.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

 

[Ariel82]

Hosea 6:1 ESV

“Come, let us return to the Lord; for he has torn us, that he may heal us; he has struck us down, and he will bind us up.

What does it mean to be torn and broken down by God?

I know God heals, but I question when people say God doesn't cause His children to be "struck down".

Yes God is love, but love isn't always mushy. Sometimes it's hard edges when He chastens those who disobey Him.

Has God ever used sickness to chastens people?

 

[Yet]

I see 3 areas that obstruct healings.

One: 'By your traditions, you nullify the word of God'.

Two: 'For as many are of the works of the law (tithing) are under a curse'.

Three: Plain ole unrepentent sin. Unforgiveness being one of many.

I gave no references. You look it up.

I had a heart condition. I would black out on the job even while driving. I broke free from the churches pagan and old testament enTRAPments, including tithing and lo and behold....God healed my heart! That's part of my testimony.

Finally blessed financially as well after years of living in the tithing pit.

But back to healing. Jesus did not heal everyone every where He went. The Pool of Salome(how do you spell that?) is one example. Was it their unbelief? Probably. Do i have it all figured out? Not so much....but more understanding today than years ago.
I do maintain that churchianity and its misguided teachings is a big culprit here.

Please be free. Be blessed. In His grip i must stay.

 

[Ariel82]

Numbers: 12. 1. And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman. 2. And they said, Hath the LORD indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the LORD heard it. 3. (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)

4. And the LORD spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out. 5. And the LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth

. 6. And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

7. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. 8. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

9. And the anger of the LORD was kindled against them; and he departed. 10. And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous. 11. And Aaron said unto Moses, Alas, my lord, I beseech thee, lay not the sin upon us, wherein we have done foolishly, and wherein we have sinned. 12. Let her not be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother's womb.

13. And Moses cried unto the LORD, saying, Heal her now, O God, I beseech thee.

14. And the LORD said unto Moses, If her father had but spit in her face, should she not be ashamed seven days? let her be shut out from the camp seven days, and after that let her be received in again.

15. And Miriam was shut out from the camp seven days: and the people journeyed not till Miriam was brought in again. -

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes..there was an Old Covenant but now we live in New Covenant and Jesus is what we are to look at now.

Can anyone show us where Jesus refused to heal anyone? Can anyone show us where Jesus put a "sickness" on someone to teach them something or for punishment? The answer is NO.

If we keep missing the Old Covenant up with the New Covenant we are going to get a mixed up view of God and not reap some of the benefits of the New Covenant.

God has His final words on every subject clearly revealed in His Son - the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus is perfect theology:

Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.

Jesus came to reveal the Father and His true nature to us as truth in the OT was progressive and in pictures and in shadows, but it ends with the revelation of Jesus Christ and what He has already done in His finished work.

So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways
,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Everyone is free to believe whatever they want concerning any subject in the scriptures but I would let the scriptures sway beliefs before human philosophy and my own experience.

 

[Ariel82]

Jesus refused to heal and work miracles at Nazareth. Some say it's because they lack faith and Jesus couldn't.

Jesus can do anything He wanted to do, He chose not to because He was making a point.

He also rebuked the towns he did His miracles because they did not repent.

Miracles doesn't always mean that people got saved and turned to God.

Jesus said some would say "did we not do miracle and cast out demons in Your name?" and He will say "Depart from me workers of iniquity, I do not know you."

It's more important to save the soul than heal these bodies that are made to die. If the body is healed it should be so they can glorify God.

However there will be many miracle worker and healers to deceive many.

The Bible warns God's children.

 

[Ariel82]

Acts: 9. 4. And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5. And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. 7. And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. 8. And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. 9. And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

15. But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16. For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. 17. And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

 

[Ariel82]

An example of Jesus striking someone with illness. saul is later restored and entrusted to a ministry but it illustrates that God does use our suffering to teach us lessons that will equip us for ministry.

 

[Zmouth]

Jesus refused to heal and work miracles at Nazareth. Some say it's because they lack faith and Jesus couldn't.

Jesus can do anything He wanted to do, He chose not to because He was making a point.

He also rebuked the towns he did His miracles because they did not repent.

Miracles doesn't always mean that people got saved and turned to God.

Jesus said some would say "did we not do miracle and cast out demons in Your name?" and He will say "Depart from me workers of iniquity, I do not know you."

It's more important to save the soul than heal these bodies that are made to die. If the body is healed it should be so they can glorify God.

However there will be many miracle worker and healers to deceive many.

The Bible warns God's children.

So you really believe you can heal somebody's soul?

 

[Grace777x70]

The scriptures do not say that Jesus "refused" to heal anyone at Nazareth. It says the exact opposite - it says that He could not do any mighty work there. Could not do means that Jesus didn't have the capacity or power to do any mighty works of power because of their unbelief.

Jesus had to rely completely on the Holy Spirit within Him to do anything as He said He could do nothing of Himself but that the Father does His works in Him.


Mark 6:3-6 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

[SUP]6 [/SUP] And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

The answer to unbelief is proper teaching - Jesus went about teaching. Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of Christ. Rom. 10:17

 

[Ariel82]

So you really believe you can heal somebody's soul?

Me, no

God, yes.

 

[Ariel82]

Mark says he does heal people in Nazareth....

I was thinking of Luke, maybe 2 different times when Jesus visited?

******
Luke: 4. 16. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. 22. And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son? 23. And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country. 24. And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country. 25. But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; 26. But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow. 27. And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian. 28. And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, 29. And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong. 30. But he passing through the midst of them went his way, -

 

[Grace777x70]

An example of Jesus striking someone with illness. saul is later restored and entrusted to a ministry but it illustrates that God does use our suffering to teach us lessons that will equip us for ministry.

That is not an illness that Jesus "struck" him with. Paul was temporarily blinded by the light that shone around him. Have you ever seen a welders arc? It blinds you when the light is flashed in your eyes. In Paul's case it was a spiritual blindness as well as physical that fell off his eyes.

God sent Ananias to heal him of this blindness from the light - not to teach him a lesson by striking him with blindness. That's religious nonsense.

Would you strike your child with a disease to teach them something? Of course not and neither would our loving Father. He helps us in the messes we create for ourselves.

He is the life giver. He didn't come to kill, steal and destroy people no matter how much religion tells us the opposite.

God no more strikes His beloved children down with illnesses then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

Acts 22:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "But it happened that as I was on my way, approaching Damascus about noontime, a very bright light suddenly flashed from heaven all around me,

 

[Ariel82]

15. But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16. For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

 

[Grace777x70]

15. But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16. For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

This doesn't mean that God is striking him with illnesses to teach him things just because God said he would suffer for His name's sake.. That's a bunch of religious nonsense. Paul suffered at the hands of his opponents that stood against him because he was preaching the gospel - not from sicknesses sent by his own Father and Lord.

 

[Ariel82]

18. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales:

Sorry, but scales don't form from being "temporarily blinded by bright light"

God isn't always fluffy with His love. Chastenment doesn't mean He loves people less.

People need to know true love, not the fake sugary sweet love of spoiled kids demanding their candy to make them stop being brats.

 

[Ariel82]

Matthew: 11. 16. But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, 17. And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. 18. For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. 19. The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children. 20. Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

21. Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23. And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee. 25. At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. -

 

[PaulMack]

The problem is too many people look to Jesus only for physical healing. What about Spiritual healing?

Yes people do have physical problems that can help them if they are healed. I have a physical problem that limits me from walking and getting around, but i never have asked God to heal me of it. I have asked Him to heal me of Spiritual problems, which i believe are more important then physical problems.

What good is it to be healed physically but yet still suffer Spiritually?

 

[PeterJens]

Why is there this antagonism? Why is it wrong to hold that we can ask Jesus to heal,
sometimes he does and sometimes he does not?

It is like unless we agree with you Grace777 there is something wrong with us.
Has it occurred to you that you are in the wrong, and rather than it being a gift of
grace you regard it as a sign of spiritual reality.

I notice though you behave like this you have not answered with your own testimony
of your faith in action.

 

[PeterJens]

The problem is too many people look to Jesus only for physical healing. What about Spiritual healing?

Yes people do have physical problems that can help them if they are healed. I have a physical problem that limits me from walking and getting around, but i never have asked God to heal me of it. I have asked Him to heal me of Spiritual problems, which i believe are more important then physical problems.

What good is it to be healed physically but yet still suffer Spiritually?

In reality I think it is the spiritual healing within that Jesus is mainly concerned with,
and why so many fail to see the truth of healing by the fruit of the heart and the
gifts of the spirit in love, patience, self control, endurance, peace etc.