THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE DOES NOT FIT LAST DAYS PROPHECY ABOUT NOAH

[popeye]

Oh, so is that how it is popeye? What seer are you consulting to know the extent of how much I love people? Is this the best you have to take issue of my signature line, "IN GOD THE SON" as if I don't mean it or I don't love people? Now you have crossed the line with me and shows me your small character.

Let me tell you something! I've been married 48 years now and have three daughters ages 47,42, and 40. I have eight grandchildren who I have taught to follow the Lord Jesus Christ. I have been a Christian for 54 years now and my mentor was the late Dr. Walter Martin. Do you know who he is? I'm a Vietnam veteran that went there in January of 1968 and two weeks later was the Tet offensive. I saw many of my friends die including me almost. God spared me just in time to talk with you.

So don't you lecture me about love and how to be a Christian. Did you ever read Matthew 23:27-37 where love incarnate Jesus Chirst is talking? And no, I am not putting you in that category but rather making the point that what I say about people is not the same as how I feel about them. In short, grow up and deal with the issues at hand and not with the person boy.

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

You sir,without question have a very nasty attitude.

Your posts are nasty and trollish.

I don't think the man you mention would be proud of your nasty attitude.

 

[eph610]

If a poster named Olive Oil shows up......

 

[popeye]

"bluto" is a troll.

I suspect DP is behind it.

Nobody that loves the lord is going to name them self after an abusive villain that is depicted as evil.

I caught it right away.

"Bluto" may even be DP. ,Or a surrogate of DP.


It is a fact DP can not stand me,and has me on ignore.

 

[GaryA]

Reread the title

See where it says " pre trib rapture" ?

See where it says "DOES NOT FIT LAST DAYS PROPHECY ABOUT NOAH"?

I don't see anyone ( except the OP? ) trying to discuss "THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE" as it is connected to "DOES NOT FIT LAST DAYS PROPHECY ABOUT NOAH"...


Otherwise -- please forgive my oversight ----- I am just getting tired of every thread turning into bickering and no real in-depth discussion of anything...

( sigh )

 

[GaryA]

If a poster named Olive Oil shows up......

"Now, this is a perfectly acceptable form of 'levity'..."

hahaha

 

[eph610]

"Now, this is a perfectly acceptable form of 'levity'..."

hahaha

yeah I had to break in and lighten it up Francis....

 

[GaryA]

yeah I had to break in and lighten it up Francis....

Thank you. I am glad you did. It is a nice change for this thread...

 

[bluto]

You sir,without question have a very nasty attitude.

Your posts are nasty and trollish.

I don't think the man you mention would be proud of your nasty attitude.

Really! I see you and your other friends are ganging up on me like a couple of school girls. None of you boys can deal with the issue at hand because you guys don't have any huevos. Btw, what do you know about Dr. Walter Martin?

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

 

[GaryA]

yeah I had to break in and lighten it up Francis....

Thank you. I am glad you did. It is a nice change for this thread...

Although, apparently not for long... LOL

Thank you, nonetheless.

 

[eph610]

I guess bluto thinks we are all a bit wimpy....

I just love those brothers that have to resort to "MY WALK IS BIGGER THAN YOUR WALK!" spiel

Dr. Walter Martin was a classic case of James 1.5-8 and his Doctorate credentials were in question...is that the Good Doc you asked about?

 

[Quasar92]

I see quasar, you think because of your age you have a valid argument, is that it? Which means that it is impossible for you to be wrong, is that it to? Were past the fact of what Jesus' ministry is because He is directly answering the disciples qestion at Matthew 24:3. You on the other hand have not explained how Israel fits into the question of "Your coming and the end of the age." Why? Instead, your asking me questions to avoid answering my simple question when you say, "Explain to me why you deny the Church/everyone who belongs to Christ, got into heaven, and will return with Christ, when He comes in His second coming to the earth, WITH His Church, when the Scriptures clearly tell you they do." This is nothing but "assumption" on your part.

And then to make matters worse popeye who is not eating his spincach chimes in with nothing more than "blather" because he too can not answer my question? Again, quasar, your "ASSUMING" the church is raptured at you time frame and you incapable of addressing the "when is the end of the age" question the disples ask Jesus about? So when is it, before or after the so-called rapture or after? To base your position on the "laurels" of you being old does not mean you are wiser.

What did the Apostle Paul say to Timolthy, "Do not let anyone despise your yourth." This is what your doing just because I'm younger than you which means in your world I'm happen to be not smarter than you. Wake up quasar. And btw, not to diminish what is going on around here I want to make the following statement. Nobody in their right mind wants to go through the tribulation which means I hope you are right. The fact that Jesus Christ is coming back for His church is good enough for me. None of this is a salvational issue and I hope we can keep in that vain. If either you or "popeye" wants to debate me on this issue I will be glad to accomadate the both of you. I do my homework and I never leave any stone unturned. PS: are you not the guy who denies the Trinity and advocates that God the Father is the person of the Holy Spirit? Mainly because you believe since God is Holy He is the person of the Holy Spirit? Yes of no?

IN GOD THE SON,
Bluto

The above is nothing but meaningless opinion! Either prove any of the following proof for the teachings of Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul are false, calling them all liars, or your views are! Capiche?!

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church - Christian Discussion Forums | CARM Christian Forums

Scripturalproof for the pre-tribrapture of the Church: - Christian Discussion Forums | CARM Christian Forums

A Scriptural chronological step by step order of end times events:

http://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/theology/general-christian-topics/eschatology/4108253-the-chronological-order-of-end-times-events-as-


Quasar92

 

[bluto]

I guess bluto thinks we are all a bit wimpy....

I just love those brothers that have to resort to "MY WALK IS BIGGER THAN YOUR WALK!" spiel

Dr. Walter Martin was a classic case of James 1.5-8 and his Doctorate credentials were in question...is that the Good Doc you asked about?

No, it is not a matter of my walk is bigger than yours, it's a matter of intergrity which you are lacking. Btw, are you a mormon? They too tried to question Walter Martins creditials with no avail. And if your so strong in the Lord like you say in your name, why are you so "whippy?" Again, you people are like little girls. Gee, I hope I'm being politically corret?

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

 

[eph610]

No, it is not a matter of my walk is bigger than yours, it's a matter of intergrity which you are lacking. Btw, are you a mormon? They too tried to question Walter Martins creditials with no avail. And if your so strong in the Lord like you say in your name, why are you so "whippy?" Again, you people are like little girls. Gee, I hope I'm being politically corret?

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

NO not a Mormon, I just dont follow people that are tossed around by every whim of doctrine and are double minded....

Welcome to ignore bluto....er Goliath of Gath....

 

[RobbyEarl]

No, it is not a matter of my walk is bigger than yours, it's a matter of intergrity which you are lacking. Btw, are you a mormon? They too tried to question Walter Martins creditials with no avail. And if your so strong in the Lord like you say in your name, why are you so "whippy?" Again, you people are like little girls. Gee, I hope I'm being politically corret?

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

Really, would Jesus approved of this demeanor? BTW the Angel of The Lord is Jesus. Jesus loves you just as he loves the drunk under the bridge or the dude beating his wife while smoking crack.

 

[redeemed2014]

I keep seeing those on the Pre-tribulational Rapture doctrine wrongly interpret what our Lord Jesus was teaching below using the flood of Noah's day in connection with events for the last days...

Luke 17:26-27
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
KJV


The Matthew 24 version...

Matt 24:38-39
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
KJV

In both accounts, Jesus is declaring how those outside the ark were destroyed, and taken.

In Luke 17, further down towards the end of the Chapter, Jesus shows about one taken and the other left. His disciples then ask Him, "Where, Lord" in the last verse, wanting to know where those would be taken to. His answer was about wherever the fowls eating dead carcase, that's where they would be taken to. So to be TAKEN, or being the first one TAKEN, is NOT... a Salvation analogy in God's Word at all.

Even in Isaiah 28, we are warned about those who refused to heed God's Word line upon line, precept upon precept, and God revealed the result of refusing to do that...

Isa 28:13
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
KJV

That actually is our Heavenly Father's Message there, that those who refused study of His Word in that line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, and there a little, type method, then His Word would become a snare to those who refuse, and this so they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. In the Hebrews, the pronouncing of the words for "precept upon precept...", etc., is like a mocking song. It's about God mocking their refusal to do it His Way.

Because of this, God's Word has become a "rock of offense" for many. Those who heed the way God showed to study there can easily distinguish those preachers who grab a couple verses out of God's Word and go to town with it talking more about uncle Bob, their new house and car, etc., instead sticking to God's Holy Writ line upon line. A line upon line Bible teaching also keeps the opportunity for man to misteach, take away, or add to Scripture at a minimum. That's why those whom God did not call, that do not really know His Word, cannot teach His Word line upon line, chapter by chapter. They'll even laugh at you if ask them to do it that way.

That is why things happen like Pre-trib Rapture folk's misuse of the 'taken' idea from Luke 17 and Matt.24, when it is not a good thing at all, because it refers to the wicked and deceived being 'taken', i.e., those outside... Noah's ark.

I believe in a Pre-Trib rapture but I do agree that there is misuse from Luke 17 and Matt 24. Those verses are speaking of those being killed during the tribulation. With that being said the reason I believe in a pre-trib rapture is Paul speaks of being caught up to be with the Lord in the air forever he then tells us about the day of the Lord and how it comes as a thief in the night. So we do not know when the rapture will take place the day and hour is unknown. For the people who believe that the rapture is a mid-trib rapture we know that 3 and a half years after the tribulation starts we will be raptured, also if it is a post-trib rapture we know that 7 years after the tribulation starts we will be raptured. It would not line up with scripture because we can then put a date on something we are told we cannot.

Also in 1 Thessalonians we are told in Chapter 5 verse 9: For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

The tribulation is a period of Gods wrath being poured out, the body of Christ is not appointed to wrath. We have been sealed with the Holy Ghost until the day of redemption because the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried, and Resurrected imputing us His righteousness.

We are also told in Chapter 4 of 1 Thessalonians verse 16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Those are not the trumpets of Revelations as some say because it is singular, also in Revelations we are told their are 7 trumpets and each one is explained. This cannot be the second coming because the Lord does not set foot on earth but calls us up in the air where we will be forever with the Lord.

Once the judgments in Revelations starts there is no mention of the true church (body of Christ).

God Bless,

 

[RobbyEarl]

To the Op, really. God told him to build a boat, why, so he would be saved from the coming judgement. God will not judge the righteous with the wicked its not His Mo.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Jesus loves Bluto and even olive oil. I love you Bluto and God loves you more. Amen

 

[JaumeJ]

Unless you think the Book, Daniel, is completely in error, there is no "pre-trib" rapture.....

 

[DP]

To the Op, really. God told him to build a boat, why, so he would be saved from the coming judgement. God will not judge the righteous with the wicked its not His Mo.

But what you have missed is that is NOT how our Lord Jesus was using the days of Noe in Luke 17. He was pointing more towards the fate of the wicked:

Luke 17:33-37
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV

In that very last verse, Jesus' disciples ask Him where those 'taken', would be taken to. Matthew 24:28 is the parallel verse to His answer there, which uses the Greek word for a "carcase" instead of just a "body". It shows those are the ones the fowl are given to feast upon, which of course is not a salvation metaphor at all! It means, one in Christ Jesus should not want to be one of the first ones 'taken' in the field, or at the mill, because it means the fate like those in Noah's day that were outside the ark.

And ultimately my point in my OP from that, is how the Pre-trib Rapture doctors love to use that first one 'taken' analogy as evidence for being raptured prior to the tribulation, when Jesus' Message there was about the one left behind actually representing His Church! Like the two women grinding at the mill, one taken and the other left behind? the woman left grinding at the mill represents Christ's faithful Church, waiting on Him to appear the second time, which is what we are supposed to do.

 

[DP]

I believe in a Pre-Trib rapture but I do agree that there is misuse from Luke 17 and Matt 24. Those verses are speaking of those being killed during the tribulation. With that being said the reason I believe in a pre-trib rapture is Paul speaks of being caught up to be with the Lord in the air forever he then tells us about the day of the Lord and how it comes as a thief in the night. So we do not know when the rapture will take place the day and hour is unknown. For the people who believe that the rapture is a mid-trib rapture we know that 3 and a half years after the tribulation starts we will be raptured, also if it is a post-trib rapture we know that 7 years after the tribulation starts we will be raptured. It would not line up with scripture because we can then put a date on something we are told we cannot.

No man knows the day or hour of our Lord Jesus' coming, that's about the idea of a date/time for the event of Christ's 2nd coming.

But the "day of the Lord" is an event He gave us describing what will occur on the final... day of this world. It was first given through His OT prophets, and it's unmistakable that it's the last day of this world:

Isa 13:6-13
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:

8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
KJV


And IF you look more closely in 1 Thess.5 and 2 Pet.3:10, you will find both Paul and Peter agreed with that "day of the Lord" coming upon the earth as a destruction on the last day of this world. Peter explained that emphatically in the 2 Pet.3:10 verse. In Paul's 1 Thess.5 example, he is talking about the "sudden destruction" upon the wicked on that final day.

It's that final day, the "day of the Lord" that comes "as a thief in the night".

Pre-trib instead wrongly teaches that "day of the Lord" happens before the tribulation when it does not.