That is the opinion of a 'naturel man/woman.
God gave us our spirit/mind/common sense for our human life....not to meddle in spiritual matters that are HIS to decide !
So what about the fourth commandment?
- Thread starter disciplemike
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That is the opinion of a 'naturel man/woman.
God gave us our spirit/mind/common sense for our human life....not to meddle in spiritual matters that are HIS to decide !
Hi disciplemike,
To "keep the Sabbath", is a very important concept - the question is what does this mean to the believer in Yeshua or in Jesus. (By the way - as a total aside, I'd enjoy hearing why you use the 7 candled menorah as your profile pic instead of the 'Chanukiyyah', which is used to celebrate Hanukah ?)
Jesus said: ""Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. (Matthew 5:17, NASB)" He said this to a group of what were likely Torah-keeping (God's Law abiding) followers on a big hill near the Sea of Galilee. He said this after telling them about practically how to "live in the Kingdom" that He was ushering forth (The Beatitudes - Matthew 5). I think Jesus knew the "hearts" of his audience that day and the one's who would wrestle with the same sorts of dilemmas with which they may have been struggling.
Lots of Messianic Believers are at the "horns of a dilemma" as they walk out their faith in Jesus - the dilemma is this: Is it Friday night/Saturday that's the Sabbath (rest/peace) or is it Sunday? And how do I "keep it Holy? Full disclosure: although I have been schooled and read men's writings like Dan Juster and Derek Prince, to name a couple; I would not say I am a Messianic believer.
I fully embrace Paul's Holy Spirit revealed concept of Ephesian's 2: 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the [a]barrier of the dividing wall, 15 [b]by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might [c]make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, [d]by it having put to death the enmity.
You see, I believe when Jesus looks at us as HIs Bride, through His lens: without end to time. He sees one Bride who is being redeemed to fully embrace a Saviour, friend and Elder brother who is their Shalom (Peace & Rest) and Sabaoth (the host of heaven).
He IS our Peace Who has broken down EVERY wall!
Phileo,
Dave
To "keep the Sabbath", is a very important concept - the question is what does this mean to the believer in Yeshua or in Jesus. (By the way - as a total aside, I'd enjoy hearing why you use the 7 candled menorah as your profile pic instead of the 'Chanukiyyah', which is used to celebrate Hanukah ?)
Jesus said: ""Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. (Matthew 5:17, NASB)" He said this to a group of what were likely Torah-keeping (God's Law abiding) followers on a big hill near the Sea of Galilee. He said this after telling them about practically how to "live in the Kingdom" that He was ushering forth (The Beatitudes - Matthew 5). I think Jesus knew the "hearts" of his audience that day and the one's who would wrestle with the same sorts of dilemmas with which they may have been struggling.
Lots of Messianic Believers are at the "horns of a dilemma" as they walk out their faith in Jesus - the dilemma is this: Is it Friday night/Saturday that's the Sabbath (rest/peace) or is it Sunday? And how do I "keep it Holy? Full disclosure: although I have been schooled and read men's writings like Dan Juster and Derek Prince, to name a couple; I would not say I am a Messianic believer.
I fully embrace Paul's Holy Spirit revealed concept of Ephesian's 2: 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the [a]barrier of the dividing wall, 15 [b]by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might [c]make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, [d]by it having put to death the enmity.
You see, I believe when Jesus looks at us as HIs Bride, through His lens: without end to time. He sees one Bride who is being redeemed to fully embrace a Saviour, friend and Elder brother who is their Shalom (Peace & Rest) and Sabaoth (the host of heaven).
He IS our Peace Who has broken down EVERY wall!
Phileo,
Dave
I am not sure about the lens.
However, I do know this much.
When Yeshua returns, people will honor the 7th day Sabbath.
However, I do know this much.
When Yeshua returns, people will honor the 7th day Sabbath.
As I said, there are more scriptures on 'loving neighbour' than the one you cling to...
try Jh 13v34, 15v12, and you will see God/Jesus included....which makes a relationship perfect !
I offered to let you pick a verse to discuss that used the word "fulfill" in it, I believe you declined and wanted me to pick one.
would you like to pick one?
O
Officermayo
Guest
"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day". - Mt 24:20
This verse seems to indicate that as far as He was concerned, the Sabbath would in fact continue. He is speaking of a future event and mentions the Sabbath.
This verse seems to indicate that as far as He was concerned, the Sabbath would in fact continue. He is speaking of a future event and mentions the Sabbath.
Hi Officermayo, welcome to CC!
here's how I look at it
on what day are christians allowed to do God's work?
on what day are christians allowed to work for themselves?
O
Officermayo
Guest
What if that verse was talking about the 70AD destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. The Jews there would not have been allowed to travel on the Sabbath which they of course being good Jews would have been observing.
Jesus is talking directly to the people listening to His words about the verse you put up there, said "This generation shall not pass until this take place".
It's a fact recorded by Josephus that no Christians died in 70AD when Titus destroyed the city and temple because they had remembered and heeded the words of Jesus about the destruction that was coming on that generation.
Dan, if you are trying to say/proof something why not just say it ? I know that Jsus fulfilled everything to perfection so go ahead and tell us what is on your mind.
O
Officermayo
Guest
I agree with your comment but in one area.
Jesus said there would still be Sabbath observance AFTER His resurrection. How do we reconcile this with the belief that the Sabbath was "nailed to the cross".
Simple...there would still be Jews after His resurrection that believed in the Sabbath and thus would be observing it - just like there is today.
On the believers side of things - this below had occurred too.
It didn't take long for the gospel to be perverted with law-keeping as we can see in Acts 21:20
Acts 21:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law;
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well... it's not intended to answer any question, it hopefully will bring an insight to those who believe christians should act differently on the sabbath...
well, I had said
14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
and my impression was that you didn't agree with that idea...
W
wvbeliever
Guest
OfficerMayo I will start with Genesis 1:21 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. When you read that scripture God never commanded anyone to observe one in the beginning it just shows He rested on that day a Sabbath day is a rest day scriptures never commanded you to "worship" but rest on that day but there is nothing wrong with worship on any day nor any other of the week anyone I encourage all to freely do so. Not until Moses gave the 10 commandment it was to observed weekly in Exodus 20 but that was addressed to "Israel" in the OT but when Jesus died his blood was the sealing of the NT for those who believe in Him We are dead to the Law and alive in Christ. Chapter 4 in Hebrews will show you Jesus is our rest as Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath we now rest in Him. In the NT we are not commanded to hold a Sabbath on Saturday as the OT covenant "Israel" was to. We now have the liberty to hold one or not to hold one now as Paul says in II Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days: If you want to have a rest day "Sabbath" do so if you don't then don't. Thus showing the verse you quoted in Matthew true. Just like Easter if someone want to hold it we cant judge them just because they do or don't but we can see if that person is right or wrong on what they do spiritual discernment.
Galatians 5:13-15 [SUP]
13 [/SUP]For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Lets us all serve the Lord because we love him who gives us the liberty to do so.
Galatians 5:13-15 [SUP]
13 [/SUP]For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Lets us all serve the Lord because we love him who gives us the liberty to do so.
What I sid was there are more than just the one you focus on, for inst Jesus gave a new commandment which brings Him personally into the equation with you and neighbour Joh 13v34, 15v12, or does that not count because it does not say fulfill ?
I know you put special emphasies on that word but it does not always mean something is 'finished and done with for good. God and Jesus are still working on the human creation even though all the physical side of it has been done and fulfilled. Maybe I'm just moving too far ahead !
O
Officermayo
Guest
OfficerMayo I will start with Genesis 1:21 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. When you read that scripture God never commanded anyone to observe one in the beginning it just shows He rested on that day a Sabbath day is a rest day scriptures never commanded you to "worship" but rest on that day but there is nothing wrong with worship on any day nor any other of the week anyone I encourage all to freely do so. Not until Moses gave the 10 commandment it was to observed weekly in Exodus 20 but that was addressed to "Israel" in the OT but when Jesus died his blood was the sealing of the NT for those who believe in Him We are dead to the Law and alive in Christ. Chapter 4 in Hebrews will show you Jesus is our rest as Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath we now rest in Him. In the NT we are not commanded to hold a Sabbath on Saturday as the OT covenant "Israel" was to. We now have the liberty to hold one or not to hold one now as Paul says in II Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days: If you want to have a rest day "Sabbath" do so if you don't then don't. Thus showing the verse you quoted in Matthew true. Just like Easter if someone want to hold it we cant judge them just because they do or don't but we can see if that person is right or wrong on what they do spiritual discernment.
Galatians 5:13-15 [SUP]
13 [/SUP]For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Lets us all serve the Lord because we love him who gives us the liberty to do so.
I must disagree with you since God instituted Sabbath rest BEFORE the Ten Commandments when he gave them manna telling them to gather a double portion on the 6th day and NOT to gather on the 7th.
I have never said that worship is a requirement of the Sabbath. Some do claim that the use of the phrase "a holy convocation " in Lev 23:3 means worship though.
in your view, what does it mean when a law is fulfilled?
which passages in the bible talk about the whole law being fulfilled?
F