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popeye
Guest
It is a person that practices sin.
If one is saved,and practices sin,they are playing games with God. It will blow up in their face eventually.
Saints are not "sinners",in that they don't practice sin.
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It is a person that practices sin.
If one is saved,and practices sin,they are playing games with God. It will blow up in their face eventually.
Saints are not "sinners",in that they don't practice sin.
This proves Joseph Prince does not have the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit reproves the world of sin, either believers or non believers by bearing witness of the Truth. The fact that Joseph Prince is silent concerning speaking out against sin, and teaches that "rebellious sinners" are still saved, just proves that he is of the spirit of this world that approves of sin.
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Christians are not of the world, nor are we those who do not believe in Jesus Christ. Which is the sin that according to scripture the Holy Spirit convicts the world of.
"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me" John 16:8-9
Many followers of Joseph Prince and the “Hyper grace” movement say the Holy Spirit does not reprove or convict them of sin. But is this notion based on scripture? I will show by scripture how this teaching is false, and is also very dangerous because it can cause people to harden their hearts to the conviction of the Holy Spirit, the law and commandments, and also the words of God spoken by Jesus, which are Spirit.
First let’s look at a verse in question, which many say is not directed to them being believers, but only to unbelievers who are of the world. Clearly Jesus is talking to his disciples in John 16:8, who were to receive the Holy Spirit, who would in turn reprove the world of sin by their preaching Jesus’ words. We know the Holy Spirit is not given to unbelievers because Jesus said the world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth in John 14:17 “Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.”
So in fact the Holy Spirit is sent to dwell in believers, and by Him the world is reproved of sin. But does the Holy Spirit reprove believers of sin? Well let’s first look at the word reprove in John 16:8….
And [SUP]G2532[/SUP] when he is come, [SUP]G2064[/SUP] he [SUP]G1565[/SUP] will reprove [SUP]G1651[/SUP] the world [SUP]G2889[/SUP] of [SUP]G4012[/SUP] sin, [SUP]G266[/SUP] and [SUP]G2532[/SUP] of [SUP]G4012[/SUP] righteousness, [SUP]G1343[/SUP] and [SUP]G2532[/SUP] of [SUP]G4012[/SUP] judgment: [SUP]G2920[/SUP]
The KJV translates Strongs G1651 in the following manner: reprove (6x), rebuke (5x), convince (4x), tell (one's) fault (1x), convict (1x).
Bible usage also shows….by conviction to bring to the light, to expose.
The above words “to bring to light” is interesting because God’s Living Word Jesus Christ is also known as the Light of the world. But let’s first look at a few more verses where this word reprove G1651 is used.
Reproving a brother of sin…
“Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell [SUP]G1651[/SUP] him his fault [SUP]G1651[/SUP] between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.” (Mat 18:15)
John reproves Herod of sin by the Spirit….
“But Herod the tetrarch, being reproved [SUP]G1651[/SUP] by him for Herodias his brother Philip's wife, and for all the evils which Herod had done,” (Luke 3:9)
The Light of Gods words reprove a dark world…
“For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [SUP]G1651[/SUP]” (John 3:20)
Being convicted in their conscience after hearing God’s words, which are light…
“And they which heard it, being convicted [SUP]G1651[/SUP] by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.”(John 8:9)
Reproving the darkness…
“And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [SUP]G1651[/SUP] them.” (Eph 5:11)
“But all things that are reproved [SUP]G1651[/SUP] are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.” (Eph 5:13)
“Them that sin rebuke [SUP]G1651[/SUP] before all, that others also may fear.” (1 Tim. 5:20)
“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, [SUP]G1651[/SUP] rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.” (2 Tim 4:2)
“Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince [SUP]G1651[/SUP] the gainsayers.” (Tit 1:9)
“This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke [SUP]G1651[/SUP] them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;” (Tit 1:13)
“These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke [SUP]G1651[/SUP] with all authority. Let no man despise thee.” (Tit 2:15)
The law also reproves….
“But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced [SUP]G1651[/SUP] of the law as transgressors.” (Jas 2:9)
And the Lord also reproves believers ……
“And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked [SUP]G1651[/SUP] of him:” (Heb 12:5)
“As many as I love, I rebuke [SUP]G1651[/SUP] and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.” (Rev. 3:9)
Now going back to this concept of how the Light reproves the darkness = sinful behavior
God is Light ….. 1 John 1:5 God’s Word is Light…. John 8:12
God’s laws and commandments are light….Proverbs 6:23
Jesus disciples who have Christ in them are light….Matthew 5:14
And the gospel message is also light….2 Corinthians 4:4
By the above things that are Light, these all will reprove the world, either believers or unbelievers of its darkness. And if any man speaks evil of the Light, or speaks contrary to and even opposes the Light of the Truth, he is still in darkness. Beware of those who speak contrary to the Light, and do not believe the Light is given to reprove (G1651) the darkness that is in them and in the world.
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popeye
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From reading these posts,most here seem to view their own Christianity,as sovereign. Walking in either some utopia of freedom,or walking in legalistic works.
I say BOTH ARE OUTSIDE REALITY.
We walk WITH JESUS. We walk In the Holy Spirit.
That is why we refuse habitual sin. That is why we work building his kingdom,and doing as he instructs.
I keep seeing this "sorting out" of freedom vs legalism,and that argument always framed in a salvation balancing act.
Walk with the one who is free. Take his yoke upon you.
Picture Him,beside you,in your car,in your home,walking beside you,correcting,encouraging,directing,even laughing and crying with you and over you.
Sin or sinlessness,saved not saved,works no works,all that stuff will leave you.
Sir, the bible clearly states that we are saved BY the word of God, which is truth. We received Jesus BECAUSE we received the truth of the gospel. Under certain conditions , it is possible for that same person to reject the same truth he once agreed with and accepted.
There is a young man I know who was delivered from drugs and other things supernaturally, who loved and lived for God because of that deliverance, who today says he doesn't even believe in God.
The bible says, even them that believe on the name of Jesus God gave them the right to become children of the most high God.
Regardless of what many think and have been taught, under certain conditions, one can lose their salvation.
We are saved by the grace of God BECAUSE of and through the faith He gave us. Without and apart from faith, we have no salvation. The same holds true for healing and deliverance.
One more thing. God's grace is NOT, I repeat, NOT for and toward salvation only.
If it was, then God's grace wouldn't have been sufficient for Paul's infirmity of the flesh. Paul didn't need salvation, he needed deliverance.
More consistent nonsense again......The Holy Spirit convinces the believer that they are the righteousness of Christ because Jesus said He is going to the Father and "you" the believers will not see Me.
The word " convict/reprove/convince/expose" in question has many meanings attached to it as well.
It is only used 1 time in KJV as "convict"....it is used more often with the word "to reprove/rebuke/convince"...the word needs to be looked at in the "context" that it is used...
It is a revealing of things.....to the world the Holy Spirit reveals/convinces/expose their sin of unbelief in Jesus..
To the believer He reveals/convinces/expose that they are the righteousness of Christ because He went to the Father to stand as an Advocate.
Pay attention to the world ( unbelievers ) and "you" ( believers - remember Jesus was talking to His disciples at the time. ) Remember to always look at who is being spoken to when looking at scripture.
John 16:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world ( unbelievers ) concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] concerning sin, because they ( unbelievers ) do not believe in Me;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you ( believers ) no longer see Me;
1 John 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
[SUP]2 [/SUP] and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Here are a few examples of the same exact word used in scripture...as one can clearly see..this word has many uses depending on the context
1 Corinthians 14:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
Titus 1:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Matthew 18:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
John 8:46 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP] Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
English Words used in KJV: reprove 6
rebuke 5
convince 4
tell (one's) fault 1
convict 1
[Total Count: 17]
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
Here is another take on does the Holy Spirit convict/convince/expose...if so...how and when and what is being exposed or what is being "revealed"?
Does He "reveal" to the world things that are different what He reveals to the believer that is in Christ?
Here is a short 3 1/2 minute video that explains it simply.
[video=youtube;zyAuhRf73D8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyAuhRf73D8[/video]
If the above statement was true, why is it hyper-grace believers continually feel
they sin and are convicted about it. If the Holy Spirit is convincing them they
are the righteousness of Christ yet being such a failure, who is continually
convicting them of sin. If it is satan working in their lives, spiritually convicting
them I would be worried. Satan does not have the power or desire to show sin
in peoples lives to stop it. But these believers openly confess without shame or
reproach they sin daily, all the time and things do not change.
None of this is scriptural or the testimony of victory.
What is nonsense is to actually look at what hyper-grace believers believe and
practise. They claim Jesus is their Lord, who gave them commands they cannot
keep, but are locked in sin, without hope of release or being transformed to being
able to walk in righteousness.
What it describes is their spiritual state, which they must make their faith, because
otherwise they do not know Christ, and that is spiritual suicide.
The alternative is they have never really been honest with themselves and stopped
playing religious games. All they do is make everyone else religious and themselves
free from religion when to make this world, they have to become the mirror image of
their invented religious ideas. So rather than being free, they see things only in
this polarised view.
True faith is a mixture of freedoms, ceremony, honour, formality, freedom, repentance,
confession, love, obedience, and being listened to. So what is the beauty of life becomes
a straight jacket.
And you have been told many times Peter that you always for some unknown reason "twist" what is said to make it something else which is the one of the reasons a lot of us try to just ignore your posts.
These "conclusions" are from your own construct in your mind. I have said it from the beginning I first met you on CC. You take something someone says - you "construct" what you think they are saying and then make a whole new meaning out of it. Then this thought seizes your mind until "it becomes real" to you in your own thinking.
Some of us have told you the same thing over 50x times and yet you continue to say we are saying something else.
Some things you just can't understand like our sins are forgiven in Christ because of His blood but that's ok to agree to disagree too but you go and make it a completely different thing and accuse people that believe in forgiveness of sins that they want to sin all the time and live in sin all the time which is complete nonsense.
And it is ok to disagree with some things as well but you just take it to the next step and think it's ok to call people names and insult them in your posts. This is not walking in righteousness and purity as you are fond of saying but maybe you will repent and change your mind about how you treat others.
You have called believers in grace every name that is possible from being satanic, to liars, to lovers of sin, demonic. This is the reason I and others try to limit my interaction with you to as little as possible.
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FreeNChrist
Guest
That the Holy Spirit doesn't convict us of our sins doesn't mean that we will be unaware of our sins.
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Ariel82
Guest
When God rebukes, reproves or convicts His children of sin...he doesn't beat them behind the shed...he puts them in time out and gives them time to think about what they have done wrong AND THEN HE TELLS THEM WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING INSTEAD. He might take away some of their privileges, yet never will He abuse His kids by refusing the basics like food and love.
God's parenting is not weak where folks spoil the kids with no rules or boundaries or consequences. Neither is He a child abuser.
It's easy to see the difference between God's discipline and Satan's condemnation.....both could be true retelling of events....but God's version says He still loves and forgives you. God shows us how we can be better and equips us to do battle next time we encounter the same temptation to sin or warns us not to chase after strangers with candy.
Satan has two tactics...he either says it's not a sin and you can keep doing it as much as You please because even if it was a sin, you already forgiven.....or Satan heaps lies that since you did do the sin. You aren't really God's child or you need to work harder because you aren't good enough.
Both lies of lascivious and legalism..
God shines His light to reveal wickedness in our lives and shows us how to get rid of it so we can live lives to glorify God.
God's parenting is not weak where folks spoil the kids with no rules or boundaries or consequences. Neither is He a child abuser.
It's easy to see the difference between God's discipline and Satan's condemnation.....both could be true retelling of events....but God's version says He still loves and forgives you. God shows us how we can be better and equips us to do battle next time we encounter the same temptation to sin or warns us not to chase after strangers with candy.
Satan has two tactics...he either says it's not a sin and you can keep doing it as much as You please because even if it was a sin, you already forgiven.....or Satan heaps lies that since you did do the sin. You aren't really God's child or you need to work harder because you aren't good enough.
Both lies of lascivious and legalism..
God shines His light to reveal wickedness in our lives and shows us how to get rid of it so we can live lives to glorify God.
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Ariel82
Guest
Galatians 5v4 talks about people who put their faith and trust in the foundation of the law and not the grace found in Christ...in that manner "falling from grace" refers to building your foundation on something that is NOT grace.
If you have to get offensive and start misrepresenting what I say, we can cease communicating now. I merely stated what I understand grace to be and expressed a question because it doesn't line up with what you seem to define as grace. It has nothing to do with church doctrine or whether I believe the Bible or not. It mainly has to do with our differing understanding of what grace is.
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Grace777 - The truth is you understand the words you use in a different way
to me. So your twisting is my understanding. Maybe this is above your understanding
but this is the consequence of only being able to see things in one framework.
The conversations we have will always be stilted because you fail to appreciate I do
not accept your frame of reference or reinterpretation of everything.
So being "told" is not how you talk about a subject. You want only one interpretation,
because in your world their is only religion "evil" and hyper grace "good".
I understand that is your belief but too much in life says this is merely a set of beliefs
that justifies your struggles and failure as acceptable. There is nothing is what Jesus
and the apostles had to say that this was their expectation.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
in context this can be a proper interpretation. But it is not the only one
oh and PS. A christian can not practice sin, The apostle John made this clear. one who sins has never seen God, let alone known him.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
this is why we can not side with you.
We are not of the world. We are of God.
Yes, The HS convicts the world of sin. But we are not of the world.
He convicts us of righteousness,, (Gods)
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Amen.
sin is against our new nature, so if nothing else. Sin is more evident to a child of God. than to a non believer, To a believer, the more we mature, the more we realise sin in our life.. Because the more we realise what true sin is..
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
nore do we accept your frame of reference or your re-interpretation of everything.
Which is why we will never agree.. So why bother keep hashing the same stuff over and over?
The Bible also says that we receive the word of God by the grace of God. It is the grace of God (God's gracious activity) which brings home the word of God in people's hearts. Without the grace of God the word of God has no proper meaning to us.
We receive Jesus Christ because of the grace of God working in our hearts. He then uses the word to accomplish His purpose.
you can agree and accept that something is true without a work in the heart. Such a person may later reject it. But a person who has TRULY received Christ and been justified by grace through faith can never be unjustified.
So??? He had some of the wonderful works, but Christ NEVER knew him.(Matt 7.22-23).
Believing INTO Christ, as opposed to believing ABOUT Christ, makes a man a true child of God. And one who has believed into Christ will never be lost (John 6.39)
God has promised otherwise (John 6.39; 10.27-29; I Cor 1.8-9; eph 1.3-14; Phil 1,6; etc). So do I believe you or God?
No, no. we are saved by the grace of God by means of His awakening faith within us.
That is true, but it is God Who produce faith within us by His grace. Faith is the channel God uses. It is Jesus Christ Who saves. If our faith were our own we would be contributing our part to salvation, and it is NOT OF WORKS.
That may explain your lack of true healings and deliverance.
God's grace is executed in any way He chooses. It means His unmerited love and favour,
what is the Biblical difference between salvation and deliverance. There is none. The words mean what a person means by them.
The modern use of deliverance is irrelevant.
My re-interpretation is an interesting phrase.
I am not re-interpreting anything, I am taking the traditional meaning that which
theologians, believers have taken for thousands of years.
It is hyper-grace that is attempting to re-interpret everything with words like
de-brainwashing, redefining words throughout the faith to mean their particular
view. But that is always an old trick. It is those of faith and walking with the Lord
who are deluded, but the new believers have the inside track, though these new
believers for decades believed something different.
But history is always rewritten to justify where people are at. And rather than accept
another points of view, it is you are lost and we are found.
I am not re-interpreting anything, I am taking the traditional meaning that which
theologians, believers have taken for thousands of years.
It is hyper-grace that is attempting to re-interpret everything with words like
de-brainwashing, redefining words throughout the faith to mean their particular
view. But that is always an old trick. It is those of faith and walking with the Lord
who are deluded, but the new believers have the inside track, though these new
believers for decades believed something different.
But history is always rewritten to justify where people are at. And rather than accept
another points of view, it is you are lost and we are found.