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pauls design in truth
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FreeNChrist
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Who let the dogs out!
Isaiah 56:9-12
[SUP]9 [/SUP]All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.
You've been reduced to responding to yourself. LOL.
Anyone trusting in their own good works are really fallen from grace and the work of Christ has been made void in their life for living. They are still born-again.
When we understand what the words "severed" and "fallen" means - it'll help you to see what is really being said. It means to "fall of, drop away"
Galatians 5:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] You have been severed ( made idle ) from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Whenever we try by our own efforts by "doing things" - even seemingly good things to maintain or obtain righteousness as in keeping the Law - Christ's finished work becomes "idle" and that makes the grace of God of no effect in our lives for living while in this earth.
We have to receive this grace as Romans 5:17 talks about.
When Paul was talking to the Galatians and said that they were "Fallen from grace" that does not mean that they are not still saved and going to heaven when they die - it means that Christ has been made of no effect in their lives because they are trusting in their own works - as in the example given of keeping the Law requirements of being circumcised.
Galatians 5:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
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That's right, according to their "prince" and his playbook you cannot lose salvation....
But the double talk is exposed here.....
And notice, according to their "prince" you cannot fall from grace by sinning. So the "rebellious sinners" seem to have a made themselves a special loophole.
That's right, according to their "prince" and his playbook you cannot lose salvation....
But the double talk is exposed here.....
And notice, according to their "prince" you cannot fall from grace by sinning. So the "rebellious sinners" seem to have a made themselves a special loophole.
As explained "fallen from grace" does not mean losing your salvation for going to heaven. I know this is against your religion but so be it. See post #23 for the details.
How many times will mine accusers ask me this? No matter which way I answer, I will still be accused by those who hate me. And like I have stated several times before, no matter what I am, or no matter what you are, it does not make the words of God any less true. So start believing what God said is true in His Word.
That's right, according to their "prince" and his playbook you cannot lose salvation....
But the double talk is exposed here.....
And notice, according to their "prince" you cannot fall from grace by sinning. So the "rebellious sinners" seem to have a made themselves a special loophole.
When Moses struck the rock instead of talking to it would you say he fell from grace? I would. It fits the definition perfectly.
He didn't fall from Salvation. He was seen later on the mount of transfiguration with the Lord and Elijah.
Grace is given precisely because of sin. So falling from Grace can't be because of sin. I wouldn't say rebellious sinners understand this, just regular ones.
OSAS doctrine is false, that is your false religious beliefs. And yes, one can fall away from the faith and grace as is written, one of which ways is by turning back to the ways of the world and sin.
Hebrews 6:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
And spare me your usual twisting of the text to try to make it fit into Joseph Princes corrupted "lens."
The grace of God is given so we can be empowered by God to overcome sin, and be set free from sin, and no longer be a servant of sin, God's grace is not given as a license to sin.
And yes, returning back to sin and falling away from the faith can cause one to lose salvation, be not deceived by all the lies of the Devil.
[h=1]2 Peter 2:20-22[/h] [SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
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FreeNChrist
Guest
How many times will mine accusers ask me this? No matter which way I answer, I will still be accused by those who hate me. And like I have stated several times before, no matter what I am, or no matter what you are, it does not make the words of God any less true. So start believing what God said is true in His Word.
What accusers? You gettin paranoid or what?
OSAS doctrine is false, that is your false religious beliefs. And yes, one can fall away from the faith and grace as is written, one of which ways is by turning back to the ways of the world and sin.
Hebrews 6:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
And spare me your usual twisting of the text to try to make it fit into Joseph Princes corrupted "lens."
So, Jesus must have lied to us then according to your religion. Let's compare ISIT's religion with the words of Jesus.
1) Jesus did say in John 6:37 that He would not cast us out and in Heb. 13:5 that He would never leave nor forsake us - ISIT's religion says - Yes He will leave you if you sin because your righteousness depends on you.
2) Jesus said in John 14:28-29 that no one ( which includes everyone ) can pluck them out on MY hand or My Father's hand - ISIT's religion says - yes we can pluck ourselves from God - we are mightier then Jesus and the Father
3) Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with you forever - ISIT's religion says "No, the Holy spirit will leave you if you don't measure up and maintain your own righteousness".
4) Jesus says in John 3:16 "whoever believes in Me shall never perish but have everlasting life - ISIT's religion says " No that's not true - if you don't maintain your own righteousness you will perish". It is all about what "you" do.
5) Paul says in Eph 1:13 " That when we believed we received the Holy Spirit and He has sealed us until the day of redemption - ISIT's religion says - " No the Holy Spirit will leave you because of a sin you have done".
As far as Hebrews 6 goes.
Hebrews 6 is a beautiful chapter on the grace of God.....I love that chapter...
The book of Hebrews is written to Jewish believers ( in which in the reading of this letter unbelievers would most likely hear this too as in the early stages of Christianity there were both Jewish believers and unbelievers meeting).
Heb. 6:4-8 talks about those that reject Jesus' sacrifice...then in verse 9 it talks about us believers..
Hebrews 6:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.
Here the author of Hebrews is speaking to the "Beloved"..that is us Christians that have accepted Jesus as our sacrifice...and he talks about "things that accompany salvation"
He wanted them to know that the verses 4-8 was not for them..which is why he said.."..though we are speaking in this way."
He didn't want them to put themselves - the true believers in that category.
Hebrews 6 is a beautiful chapter about the love and grace of Christ for us believers...not so good for those Jews depending on the temple system.
Here below if you click on this link it'll take you to a post from mailmandan who gave an excellent breakdown of Hebrews 6:4-9. The last half of his post addresses Hebrews 6:4-9.
Twice dead
Nonsense - your religion has blinded you from our Lord's great salvation and love for us. You never speak about the love that God has for His children. That is very telling in your posts.
The Spirit of truth is with us forever! ( but in your religion - this must be another one of them lies from the Lord )
2 John 1:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] for the sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:
John says we are safe in the Lord as He keeps us. Isn't that exciting to know that?
As for your 2 Peter 2:20 ...here is the answer to that...that has been talked about in light of the New Covenant many times.
The whole chapter 2 in 2 Peter is talking about false prophets in verse 1...then in verse 9 Peter talks about the unrighteous ( the unbeliever )..
then in verse 13..they are stains and blemishes ( believers have no spot or blemish because of Jesus..1 Peter 1:19 Eph 5:27 Eph 1:4 )..all through that chapter he is not describing a believer in Christ.
Even "IF" it is talking about a believer it still does not say they go to hell.
Here is a post #49 from mailmandan that dissects 2 Peter 2:20 down for us.
Twice dead
I see you have run into the Joseph Prince and the "Hyper grace" cult following who pervert the true gospel of grace in Jesus Christ. If you preach against sin and for an obedient walk of faith empowered by God's grace they will label you a "legalist" or "works salvationist" or "D.I.Y self righteousness".
But I'm sure you have already experienced this as well.
yep since january on this site, ive began to identify the small groups and just place them on ignore, so as to keep myself from representing in the arguments that destroy those who may be coming to learn the truth and see all this contention. ive actually spent the last 10 or so years dealing with the same from legalists, and gog folks. so im used to the blessing of insults, and exclusion and welcome it for the sake of the gospel. God bless
exactly. and what happened to man after adam sinned? they began sinning in thought, action. in the same way, through Christ we are commanded to begin thinking and acting in righteousness. the same, in reverse. man didnt just get labeled sinners, they began sinning as evidenced in the first son of adam who mudered his brother. through Jesus, its the opposite sinners, now begin acting in the righteousness of Christ as learned through the gospel. good scripture
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FreeNChrist
Guest
its not different from God saying " if you eat of this fruit you will surely die" and the serpent then saying " pshhh nah you wont die.....eat some its good for you, God is being stingy, doesnt want you to be like Him." that same thing in the garden is simply echoed eternally. there is truth, and there is the lie. life and death.
obeying God will lead someone to hell?
do you not understand what happened in the garden?
Gods word is true. from the beginning. if mankind follows Gods way they will live, if mankind follows the deception they will die. why is it that you guys think that Gods word is wrong, and doctrines that pluck verses and twist them into saying " God doesnt care if you sin or not, jesus obeyed so i dont have to?" there is no doctrine in Gods word that will ever say any such thing. if you read a novel, do you tell the other guy its about 1 or 2 lines of the book and claim thats the story>?
why doesnt that bible just say " say i believe and im in?" why does Jesus make the point to say " this ?
matthew 7 :21-27 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
the false doctrines you guys keep has lead you to believe Jesus doesnt know what he is saying. or paul doesnt know what he is saying or the bible doesnt record the truth . terribly dangerous to accept a false doctrine that turns a person to think they understand that Jesus is not right about His Fathers kingdom, of which He himself is Lord and King. once a person accepts that, its very hard to get through the veil.......trust Jesus, what He says is the pure and simple eternal truth.
probably everything you read that i have written makes no sense........but honestly, i dont care whether it make sense to you. I care that it is in accordance with the gospel. and i thought i had added you to the ignore list along with bruce and a few others....ill remedy that right now. so im not dragged into the circle of deception you guys run. its a waste of my time. believe Jesus and forget the thing that makes you think God approves sin.
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FreeNChrist
Guest
God often lets blinds people to the truth because they refuse to reopent, giving them over to sin, for the hope that they will see its hideosness and come to repentance. a person l;ives m=long enough in sin, and believes Jesus, they should come to the knowledge that hates sin and even the clothing stained by it, and then dress themselves in the garment of righteousness that He has made available. I can say this because i once was lost myself, probably the heavywieght champ of sin, being there taught me how destructive and ugly and utterly sinful it is. i think the doctrine that were supposed to omit our conscience is really hurting alot of people,
really we should pray that God will make our conscience unltra sensetive to our own sin, because that will bring godly sorrow, that will then result in repentance.
good stuff in your comment. ( i tend to ramble when someone has a good point)