This is such ridiculous codswollop. It has nothing to do with the verse quoted. If one English version had been a direct ancestor of the next in every case, and each was better than the previous, it would still be ridiculous, because the first Bible was not Wycliffe but the original manuscripts in Hebrew and Greek (mostly). As it is, the KJV was not "purified" from previous English versions. It was translated from published Greek editions, as you well know. Please stop posting such silly tripe.
Why the king james?
- Thread starter Blain
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God’s revealing himself through his prophets is considered the words of God. God’s inspired words were transmitted and keep preserved either in the same language or other languages.
I believe God’s preservation of his words extends even unto the translation being the OT were preserved in the language of Canaan and little Aramaic and NT were preserved in the language of Greek but also preserved to the Latin and Syriac languages as well. The “original autographs” known as “Masters” are now lost and copies of the originals were copied especially the Greek with the vast majority of miniscule mss.
However, even during the apostolic times, corruptions (2 Corinthians 2:17) and perversions including wresting (2 Peter 3:16) of the scriptures are most prevalent even during the Apostolic era and that’s why John had to warned in Revelation 22:18-19. These corruptions and perversions of the scriptures were done in the guise of correcting them. A willful mutilation of the scriptures was seen with the rise of false doctrine and other heretical cults and many openly perverted the scriptures to suit their ends. Allowing the Docetists which deny Christ humanity with the canon of Marcion the Heretic (120-170AD) has inevitably desecrate the scriptures an old time ago.
The Canon of Marcion the heretic
By far, one of the greatest corruption came with the pens of scribes who acted as editors rather than copiers. This is to alter the text to change meaning. The process by which corrupter used is what we call “conjectural emendation” which changed the text to what one thinks to be. Origen, influenced by a semi-Gnostic writing, the “Acts of John” thought that Jesus’ body appeared differently to different observers according to their spiritual capacities. Origen is more inclined to Arianism.
Origen (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Now who spreads the doubt?
First, not all who used or read the KJV is that we have the same Jesus. Not all who pose to believe in the KJV have a like faith especially in the essential doctrines like the Trinity or the Deity of our Jesus Christ. A Mormon who reads from the KJV, a Pentecostals Oneness who likes the KJV is in no way the same Jesus Christ I believed and received as my Saviour.
Hearing Jesus Christ through any source, of course has its dangers. The source may come from heretical teaching or has been influenced by Gnostic beliefs and writings or Unitarians, Dualism etc.
As said, preservation is even unto the translation. So translation is design by God so that God’s word or the Gospel will be sent the uttermost. BTW, translation is a bible word and it must not be feared. Enoch was translated; he was received up to glory without experiencing death, decay or deterioration. In the same manner translation must be free from corruption.
Below are some verses to show how the KJB being compared with critical reading concerning our Lord Jesus and how different it will be.
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Verse
[/TD]
[TD]KJB
[/TD]
[TD]Most neo-versions
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1 John 4:3
[/TD]
[TD]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God
[/TD]
[TD]and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not God
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Col. 1:2
[/TD]
[TD]our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
[/TD]
[TD]Our Father
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ephesians 3:9
[/TD]
[TD]God who created all things by Jesus Christ
[/TD]
[TD]God who created all things
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ephesians 3:14
[/TD]
[TD]I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ
[/TD]
[TD]I bow my knees unto the Father
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gal. 4:7
[/TD]
[TD]an heir of God through Christ
[/TD]
[TD]an heir of God
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gal 5:6
[/TD]
[TD]For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything
[/TD]
[TD]For neither is circumcision anything
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1 Timothy 2:7
[/TD]
[TD]I speak the truth in Christ
[/TD]
[TD]I speak the truth
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Acts 8:37
[/TD]
[TD]I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God
[/TD]
[TD]omit
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]1 John 5:13
[/TD]
[TD]These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know ye have eternal life…
[/TD]
[TD]These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life…
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
So God literally preserves his words on the above in the KJV and the question is who spreads the doubt?
God bless
I believe God’s preservation of his words extends even unto the translation being the OT were preserved in the language of Canaan and little Aramaic and NT were preserved in the language of Greek but also preserved to the Latin and Syriac languages as well. The “original autographs” known as “Masters” are now lost and copies of the originals were copied especially the Greek with the vast majority of miniscule mss.
However, even during the apostolic times, corruptions (2 Corinthians 2:17) and perversions including wresting (2 Peter 3:16) of the scriptures are most prevalent even during the Apostolic era and that’s why John had to warned in Revelation 22:18-19. These corruptions and perversions of the scriptures were done in the guise of correcting them. A willful mutilation of the scriptures was seen with the rise of false doctrine and other heretical cults and many openly perverted the scriptures to suit their ends. Allowing the Docetists which deny Christ humanity with the canon of Marcion the Heretic (120-170AD) has inevitably desecrate the scriptures an old time ago.
The Canon of Marcion the heretic
By far, one of the greatest corruption came with the pens of scribes who acted as editors rather than copiers. This is to alter the text to change meaning. The process by which corrupter used is what we call “conjectural emendation” which changed the text to what one thinks to be. Origen, influenced by a semi-Gnostic writing, the “Acts of John” thought that Jesus’ body appeared differently to different observers according to their spiritual capacities. Origen is more inclined to Arianism.
Origen (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Now who spreads the doubt?
First, not all who used or read the KJV is that we have the same Jesus. Not all who pose to believe in the KJV have a like faith especially in the essential doctrines like the Trinity or the Deity of our Jesus Christ. A Mormon who reads from the KJV, a Pentecostals Oneness who likes the KJV is in no way the same Jesus Christ I believed and received as my Saviour.
Hearing Jesus Christ through any source, of course has its dangers. The source may come from heretical teaching or has been influenced by Gnostic beliefs and writings or Unitarians, Dualism etc.
As said, preservation is even unto the translation. So translation is design by God so that God’s word or the Gospel will be sent the uttermost. BTW, translation is a bible word and it must not be feared. Enoch was translated; he was received up to glory without experiencing death, decay or deterioration. In the same manner translation must be free from corruption.
Below are some verses to show how the KJB being compared with critical reading concerning our Lord Jesus and how different it will be.
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Verse
[/TD]
[TD]KJB
[/TD]
[TD]Most neo-versions
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1 John 4:3
[/TD]
[TD]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God
[/TD]
[TD]and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not God
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Col. 1:2
[/TD]
[TD]our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
[/TD]
[TD]Our Father
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ephesians 3:9
[/TD]
[TD]God who created all things by Jesus Christ
[/TD]
[TD]God who created all things
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ephesians 3:14
[/TD]
[TD]I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ
[/TD]
[TD]I bow my knees unto the Father
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gal. 4:7
[/TD]
[TD]an heir of God through Christ
[/TD]
[TD]an heir of God
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gal 5:6
[/TD]
[TD]For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything
[/TD]
[TD]For neither is circumcision anything
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1 Timothy 2:7
[/TD]
[TD]I speak the truth in Christ
[/TD]
[TD]I speak the truth
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Acts 8:37
[/TD]
[TD]I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God
[/TD]
[TD]omit
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]1 John 5:13
[/TD]
[TD]These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know ye have eternal life…
[/TD]
[TD]These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life…
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
So God literally preserves his words on the above in the KJV and the question is who spreads the doubt?
God bless
First, take away all the doubts off me about idol worshiping for it can also be said to any critical scholars and agnostics who worship the Greek language!
Second you are not quite sure if faith comes from the words of Christ only. You maybe wrong in this instance. So do you mean the O.T. saints like Moses and other have no faith since Christ has not been incarnated yet?
Cult movement? not pretty sure of what you're talking about...plus RELAX!
Through and through that's mixture, that's doubt, that my be a delusion...
Sorry friend, hope we can just still discuss these in a civil manner..,
God bless
Second you are not quite sure if faith comes from the words of Christ only. You maybe wrong in this instance. So do you mean the O.T. saints like Moses and other have no faith since Christ has not been incarnated yet?
Cult movement? not pretty sure of what you're talking about...plus RELAX!
Through and through that's mixture, that's doubt, that my be a delusion...
Sorry friend, hope we can just still discuss these in a civil manner..,
God bless
If you find the KJV for you brings glory to God, amen brother.
What is the difference between reading a verse and a commentary or reading the
two together.
I have found in my life I have had different phases, where different things spoke to
me. I would want to encourage anyone who draws near to the living God, for surely
that is our aim. So God bless you brother.
What is the difference between reading a verse and a commentary or reading the
two together.
I have found in my life I have had different phases, where different things spoke to
me. I would want to encourage anyone who draws near to the living God, for surely
that is our aim. So God bless you brother.
Dont you realize that similar comparison table can be made about any Bible version?
If I would use the same logic you used, it would look like:
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Verse
[/TD]
[TD]LXX (first church Bible)
[/TD]
[TD]KJ version (middle ages English Bible)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Psalm 96:10
[/TD]
[TD]Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns from the wood."
[/TD]
[TD]Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth (KJ removed the cross!)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Is 53:11
[/TD]
[TD]"After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied"
[/TD]
[TD]"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied" (KJ removed the ressurection!)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Is 61:1
[/TD]
[TD] “...recovery of sight to the blind...” (one of the messianic miracles!)
[/TD]
[TD]omitted
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Psalm 40:6
[/TD]
[TD]"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but you prepared me a body."
[/TD]
[TD]"Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened." (KJ removed the incarnation of Christ!)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Dt 32:43
[/TD]
[TD]"Let all the angels of Lord worship him."
[/TD]
[TD]omitted (KJ teaching that angels do not worship Him?)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
So God literally preserves his words on the above in the LXX and the question is who spreads the doubt?
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Hi @author i see you lurking -- and this actually delights me, to see that even though yesterday you wanted to throw in the towel, you find yourself still among us today!! 
View attachment 159100
we're going to be stuck with each other for eternity in Christ, so we ought to start figuring out how to get along with each other today, i like to say.
honestly, i posted harshly to you earlier in order to spur you to remain, and i hope you'll forgive me for that.
View attachment 159100
we're going to be stuck with each other for eternity in Christ, so we ought to start figuring out how to get along with each other today, i like to say.
honestly, i posted harshly to you earlier in order to spur you to remain, and i hope you'll forgive me for that.
At 76 years old, there is not much that is new to me. The last eight years have eroded my natural ability to accept things the way they are because my beloved America is being destroyed. Because of the age difference between me and probable the majority of those participating in this forum, I was fortunate enough to be born and raised in a country that was governed by America's Greatest Generation; made up of an overwhelming number of Christians. In the sixties, it was all changed by the tuned out, me-first and America last generation. Bill Clinton was 15 years old and Hilary was 13 in 1960 (you are free to make of that what you wish). It fell off the cliff in1974, when the Roe verses Wade law was passed and it has been going downhill since that time.
I have been retired from my job as a Corporate Pilot since 1995, but I have not retired from life. I am always very busy and cherish every day that I can share my life with my beautiful wife and our cat Roxanne. I have been reviewing several blogs to get a sense of the ebb and flow of various opinions. I have been praying about it and if I can convince myself I can be an asset to this forum, I will be delighted to participate.
If I decide not to continue visiting this forum, I am sure it will have little impact, and it should not.
I will close with the following words I heard from my spirit filled Mother at least a million times; “God is watching you”.
Well, you should have enough understanding over the issue of Bible versions. Seems you’re quick in comparing LXX with the KJB or any Bible Versions, so I guess you’re obsessed with the LXX. Somehow, you should be quietly studying them first knowing its pros and cons. Aside from “straining a gnat”, you even purport that first “church” bible is the LXX. Consider that friend because you’re wrong in that instance. Another, a quick comparison with the LXX based on Psalms 96:10 with the KJV will fell flat your human reasoning. Here are the exact renderings
LXX Psalms 96:10 Say among the heathen, The Lord reigns: for he has established the world so that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people in righteousness.
KJV Psalms 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
Psalm 96
Third, the tress of the wood would rejoice and has nothing to do with prophecy, you’re joking my friend. I think, this enough for you. You’re out in the field. Umm… I think your copy and paste are not quite correct. You should have done the right the first time.
What you needed is more study…
LXX Psalms 96:10 Say among the heathen, The Lord reigns: for he has established the world so that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people in righteousness.
KJV Psalms 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
Psalm 96
Third, the tress of the wood would rejoice and has nothing to do with prophecy, you’re joking my friend. I think, this enough for you. You’re out in the field. Umm… I think your copy and paste are not quite correct. You should have done the right the first time.
What you needed is more study…
Now for the sake of the readers, please compare the following and nothing is said to what has been posted and such are mere fabrications! Let me continue my criticism.
LXX Isa. 53:11 the Lord also is pleased to take away from the travail of his soul, to shew him light, and to form [him] with understanding; to justify the just one who serves many well; and he shall bear their sins.
KJV Isa. 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
LXX Isa. 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me; he has sent me to preach glad tidings to the poor, to heal the broken in heart, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind;
KJV Isa. 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
So here is the contention between the LXX and the KJB” recovery of sight to the blind vs. the opening of the prison to them that are bound” but it’s not a mere omission on the KJB as falsely charge. Luke 4:18 is the fulfillment and both are correct! It might be a conflation but it so happen that LXX has nothing to offer in the New Testament, the KJB has! But this needed to a more study on this.
LXX Psalms 40:6 The voice of one saying, Cry; and I said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass:
LXX Psalms 40:7 omitted (Bingo!)
KJV Psalms 40:6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:
KJV Psalms 40:7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.
LXX Deut. 32:43 Rejoice, ye heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship him; rejoice ye Gentiles, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him; for he will avenge the blood of his sons, and he will render vengeance, and recompense justice to his enemies, and will reward them that hate him; and the Lord shall purge the land of his people.
KJV Deut. 32:43 32:43 Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.
Not so fast Hebrews 1:6 in the KJV says, the “angels of God worship him”, your comment is then again wrong! But with certainty, need to study and researched on this.
LXX Isa. 53:11 the Lord also is pleased to take away from the travail of his soul, to shew him light, and to form [him] with understanding; to justify the just one who serves many well; and he shall bear their sins.
KJV Isa. 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
LXX Isa. 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me; he has sent me to preach glad tidings to the poor, to heal the broken in heart, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind;
KJV Isa. 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
So here is the contention between the LXX and the KJB” recovery of sight to the blind vs. the opening of the prison to them that are bound” but it’s not a mere omission on the KJB as falsely charge. Luke 4:18 is the fulfillment and both are correct! It might be a conflation but it so happen that LXX has nothing to offer in the New Testament, the KJB has! But this needed to a more study on this.
LXX Psalms 40:6 The voice of one saying, Cry; and I said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass:
LXX Psalms 40:7 omitted (Bingo!)
KJV Psalms 40:6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:
KJV Psalms 40:7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.
LXX Deut. 32:43 Rejoice, ye heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship him; rejoice ye Gentiles, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him; for he will avenge the blood of his sons, and he will render vengeance, and recompense justice to his enemies, and will reward them that hate him; and the Lord shall purge the land of his people.
KJV Deut. 32:43 32:43 Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.
Not so fast Hebrews 1:6 in the KJV says, the “angels of God worship him”, your comment is then again wrong! But with certainty, need to study and researched on this.
Try to ignore my person, what study do I need and my human understanding vs your godly understanding, thank you.
To your factual response:
I am not sure what you think you said by it.
LXX was the Bible of the first church, you can look it up. Surely it was not KJV nor massoretic texts.
I do not believe LXX is perfect (so I am not some kind of LXX only guy), it is an old book with many scribal errors, different copies etc.
But I think its the best source we have, not influenced by Jews who tried to remove everything that was used by Christians who were proving Jesus is Christ.
We know, that Psalm 96:10 was in LXX like this:
Ειπατε εν τοις εθνεσι, ὁ Κυριος εβασιλευσε απο του ξυλου, "Say among the nations, the Lord ruleth by/from the wood,"
Because in this form it is quoted by Church Fathers. Today's critical editions of LXX (like Ralph's) may not have it, but traditional texts like in orthodox church admit it was there.
To your factual response:
I am not sure what you think you said by it.
LXX was the Bible of the first church, you can look it up. Surely it was not KJV nor massoretic texts.
I do not believe LXX is perfect (so I am not some kind of LXX only guy), it is an old book with many scribal errors, different copies etc.
But I think its the best source we have, not influenced by Jews who tried to remove everything that was used by Christians who were proving Jesus is Christ.
We know, that Psalm 96:10 was in LXX like this:
Ειπατε εν τοις εθνεσι, ὁ Κυριος εβασιλευσε απο του ξυλου, "Say among the nations, the Lord ruleth by/from the wood,"
Because in this form it is quoted by Church Fathers. Today's critical editions of LXX (like Ralph's) may not have it, but traditional texts like in orthodox church admit it was there.
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You have not understood my comments in my table comparison.
I was ironically paraphrasing your style of arguments, I am not actually saying KJV translators did not believe in ressurection, cross or that angels worship Him.
But you used this style of arguments about "neo translations", so I showed you it can be easily done with KJV or any other version, too, so that such arguments are useless.
I was ironically paraphrasing your style of arguments, I am not actually saying KJV translators did not believe in ressurection, cross or that angels worship Him.
But you used this style of arguments about "neo translations", so I showed you it can be easily done with KJV or any other version, too, so that such arguments are useless.
By your own admission, God has not preserved his pure words for us to have and study. Did not God promise to preserve His holy, pure words for all generations? Where are they?
You say we have nothing perfect, what you have and what the KJV has is full of errors. What would a lost world think about that? We have no defense concerning truth, if we don't have truth. How are we to put our trust in the Savior of the Scriptures when we can't trust the Scriptures?
You say we have nothing perfect, what you have and what the KJV has is full of errors. What would a lost world think about that? We have no defense concerning truth, if we don't have truth. How are we to put our trust in the Savior of the Scriptures when we can't trust the Scriptures?