Fight the good fight of faith

heavenly_bound · Sep 11, 2016

Cee said:

well said adelphos. just to support your points; the Church of our Lord is not a militant church; we are the victorious church. so all these brethren who have a fighting mentality, only go to discredit the work of the Savior. They put the Lord of lords, kings of kings, the only blessed potentate, the only wise God, in the same rank as the so called "devil"!!!
i wonder if they really know this SAVIOR WHO IS THE GOD OF ALL UNIVERSES; THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS!!!! In passing, the only FIGHT the believer is called to fight is the good fight of FAITH; meaning we have to rest in the COMPLETE, PERFECT and FINISHED WORKS OF OUR GOD! Anything out side of this is "works"! i don't care what name you give to us who have put our entire TRUST in the works of our God!! i end by saying; you can go ahead and fight the "devil" ever day for all i care. you will be the one to wear out and exhausted! but guess what? i will continue to look fresh and healthy bc i am resting in the golden medal of the GREATEST FIGHTER, who fought 2000 yrs ago and handed me HIS gold medal. blessed

heavenly_bound · Sep 11, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Here is a great resource concerning the letters to the churches as it talks about "overcoming" in light of the finished work of Christ.

Just who is Jesus talking about in when He talks about "overcoming"?

Here are some grace based teachings on the churches in Revelation. We must always look at all obscure scripture through the very clear scriptures.

I wonder if there were unbelievers in the churches just like there are today and have been throughout eternity? Jesus did say that the tares and the wheat would be together.

Is it possible that Jesus was addressing this group of people that have not really received Christ yet and He was telling them to overcome by believing in Him?

The "soiling of the garments" is answered in Incomplete Deeds: The Zombie Church of Sardis (Rev 3:1-6)"

I like to use this site sometimes as it answers the tough contradictory scriptures in light of the finished work of Christ which is very clearly outlined in scriptures. It also has at the bottom of the article a place where people have asked questions. Sometimes I learn a lot from that area too.

There are a number of articles about the people in Revelation 2 and 3..:

Strike Her Children Dead (Revelation 2:23) ( Jezebel one )

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/06/...velation-2v23/

This one is all about the Laodicean church.

https://escapetoreality.org/category/laodicean-church/

This one is about " Incomplete Deeds: The Zombie Church of Sardis (Rev 3:1-6)"

https://escapetoreality.org/2010/04/...rdis-rev-31-6/

Here is one about." Forsaking Your First Love: What Was the Ephesians’ Problem? (Rev 2:1-7)"

https://escapetoreality.org/2010/04/...blem-rev-21-7/

Here is one about " Holding Fast in Thyatira: The Seductress versus the Savior (Rev 2:18-29)

https://escapetoreality.org/2010/04/...or-rev-218-29/

well expounded dear friend; a friend of the same bosom!!!

mpaper345 · Sep 11, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

You are right concerning what you said in your post,but in this point the saints are not overcome in a spiritual way,but they are overcome in a physical way,if you are saying that some are overcome in a spiritual way,for the beast makes war against all the saints because they did not take the mark,and he makes war against them physically.These saints could not be deceived by the beast,and would not take his mark,so the beast makes war against the saints,and prevails against them physically.

Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time(three and one half years).

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people(physically).

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

In this instance the saints are not overcome spiritually,but overcome physically,as the beast makes war against them,and when he shall accomplish to scatter their power,then all the things in Daniel shall be finished,and it will be the time for God to put down the world.

That saints being overcome in that instance is in a physical fashion because they did not go along with the beast,and would not take the mark of the beast,so they were not deceived spiritually,and they are the elect,so they could not be deceived spiritually,and since they did not go along with the beast,he goes against them physically,and that is how they were overcome.

Chester · Sep 11, 2016

Cee said:

You mean resting like this?

Hebrews 4:10For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.

All the warring and battling you speak of is actually to enter into His rest.

Jesus was attacked by the enemy, trying to get Him to do things, "If He be the son of God..."

But Jesus knew who He was and stayed in faith through the enemy's attacks.

Matt 4:3And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”

6and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written,

Notice the pattern, if you are what God says you are then do this...

We don't do to become His child.
We do because we are His child.

We don't do things to BE saved.
We do things because we ARE saved.
.

I think sometimes we make these things too difficult and don't listen to one another:

Do we need to and should we rest in God? 100%
Are we involved in a warfare in which we fight? 100%

The one does not negate or compromise or water down the other.

Chester · Sep 11, 2016

Chester said:

In looking at this thread a little more closely I see that at least some here seem to actually be trying to say that all we need to do is rest, and don't like any talk of the Christian needing or wanting to "fight".

As I said in the previous post, I think both are one side of the story: I believe that while I am "fighting" the good fight of faith I am also "resting" in God.

But my "resting" does not negate that fact that 100% of my physical, mental, emotional and spiritual energies are being spent for the cause of the kingdom of God.

I for one choose to stand up and fight for the kingdom of God in a dark and evil world that is turning against the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

but I am also resting in Him

UnderGrace · Sep 11, 2016

Well in my experience the spiritual battle truly ended when I was born again.

I was completely saved not half saved and I do not need to be stronger than the devil because Jesus has already defeated the devil at the cross and I am an adopted daughter of God, whereas before I belonged to the world, it is His indwelling presence and grace that I lean into and this is not doing nothing.

I am doing the Important Work for victory that He told me to do via the scripture, abide in Him and tells me to do each day via His Spirit.

You will never win the battle it cannot be done, He did not give us special power He gave us Himself.

He is me and I am in Him.

InSpiritInTruth said:

Chester · Sep 11, 2016

UnderGrace said:

If Ephesians 6 is not a spiritual battle, is it then a physical one?

What is interesting is that I would/might say almost all of the same things you say in your post --
I think the problem in this thread is that both sides are afraid if they agree at all with the other on anything they won't come out on top!??

Grace777x70 · Sep 11, 2016

The battle in Eph 6 is to be standing in the armor of God and to be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. He has already won the victory - our part is to stand in that victory - stand - praying in the Spirit.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action.

Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

There is a vast difference between "us" doing things and the Lord doing things through and in us. We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. This speaks of the difference between the 2 covenants. Galatians 4:22-24, 30

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

InSpiritInTruth · Sep 11, 2016

Cee said:

The point was JP and his followers say Christianity is effortless, and that we are already resting. But that is not what Heb 4 is saying, it is talking about laboring to enter into a future rest.

Hebrews 4:1-11

4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

That rest to come is the millennial reign of Christ yet to come, the Big Sabbath Rest of God.

Chester · Sep 11, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

No problem with anything you write above: In fact I say Amen, brother!

but it does not negate the Scriptures that talk about the Christian life as fighting - I won't bore you with the references - there have been plenty already given on the thread

Ephesians 6 - Yes, the major imagery is "stand" - but then in your description of what it means to stand you go on and say pretty much the same thing others mean when they say we need to "fight"

You say - our rest is to fight -- yes, great!
We could also say - our fight is to rest!

Ephesians 6 also says we "wrestle not against flesh and blood" (not a physical battle), but against principalities and powers ( a spiritual battle) -- "wrestle" is a Greek word quite different from "rest" -- but they are not contradictory . . .

Chester · Sep 11, 2016

It appears to me this thread is at the core a wrestling over Joseph Prince and has little to do with what Scripture actually says.

Grace777x70 · Sep 11, 2016

Hebrews 4:11 is in the aorist tense which means it is NOT future tense rest. It is "now" rest in what Christ has done. The laboring/striving actually means to "be diligent or to make haste" to enter into the rest of Christ and cease from our own self-efforts.

We don't cease from our own self-effort in the future sometime in the great by and by when we get to heaven - NO, it's now - today - in this life.

Hebrews 4:9-11 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

InSpiritInTruth · Sep 11, 2016

UnderGrace said:

Well according to scripture the spiritual battle first begins right after you are born again and illuminated, this is also my personal experience, so I agree with scripture and my own personal experience confirms it to be true.

It is written Hebrews 10:32 “But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;”

But like the scriptures also say, if you resist the Devil he will flee from you. After a period of resisting the desires of the flesh, and bringing every thought into the obedience of Christ, then you will finally have peace of mind (sound mind) and your heart and mind will be purified, because the old man of sin with his evil thoughts and desires will finally be dead.

InSpiritInTruth · Sep 11, 2016

Chester said:

It is all of his followers who are wrestling with the scriptures because they follow his false teachings that are contrary to the scriptures.

Grace777x70 · Sep 11, 2016

Chester said:

The wrestle or struggle is to get us to do things on our own strength which the enemy loves to make us religious. Even thought the "struggle" is there - there is also a rest in Christ and letting His life that is in us help us to stand in the victory that He has already won. It's with faith and patience we inherit the promises of God while we are here in this earth.

I agree..the two are not contradictory - perhaps it might have to do with the "nature" of this struggle that needs more refining?

InSpiritInTruth · Sep 11, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Hebrews 4:11 is in the aorist tense which means it is NOT future tense rest. It is "now" rest in what Christ has done. The laboring/striving actually means to "be diligent or to make haste" to enter into the rest of Christ and cease from our own self-efforts.

We don't cease from our own self-effort in the future sometime in the great by and by when we get to heaven - NO, it's now - today - in this life.

Hebrews 4:9-11 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. " ..... Whoop der it is!

disciplemike · Sep 11, 2016

[SUP]9 [/SUP] So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Grace777x70 · Sep 11, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

We don't make the old man dead or finally make him dead - he died with Christ on the cross. It's in knowing this that we are able to walk in victory too which is in Christ - that He has already won for us.

Romans 6:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Grace777x70 · Sep 11, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

Yes..the word for "remaineth" is in the Greek present tense...it's an on-going truth happening in the present for those that choose to believe in Christ's finished work. It is not a future thing - it is now as is clearly seen by the tenses of the verbs in Heb. 4:9-11

Also the Greek word for "remaineth" means something that is "left behind" - it's for us to pick up and believe in the rest of Christ.

disciplemike · Sep 11, 2016

Moreover, I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land that I had given them, a land flowing with milk and honey, the most glorious of all lands,
because they rejected my rules and did not walk in my statutes, and profaned my Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.
Ezekiel 20:15-16 (ESV2011, MBM)

Fight the good fight of faith

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