Thank you, Miri. The other part of harm reduction that does not work is that often people do not move on from the reduction to abstinence, and so all they are really doing is keeping their addiction alive and well, though perhaps somewhat starved. In AA, if people are unsure as to whether or not they are truly an alcoholic, they are invited to try to control that which many freely admit powerlessness over. Some are not true alcoholics; there are two symptoms: the mental obsession to drink regardless of any possible consequences, often even knowing the consequences are more often than not quite terrible indeed, and the inability to stop once one starts. That is what causes many to hit bottom, for taking that first drink leads many to other behaviours they really would rather not partake in, and certainly would not if alcohol had never been put into their body.
Alcohol
- Thread starter resurrection33
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The thing I really like about this thread, is the number of former alcoholics who have come forward with their testimony of how God delivered them from alcoholism. It is just such an encouraging thing, to see God working and totally transforming lives by the power of the Holy Spirit.
I also appreciate that although there are differences regarding "abstinence vs moderation" no one is really angry or personally attacking people. Like I said in my last post, I have changed radically on this issue. Never having to drink again was a gift from God for me, and I would never scorn that gift. But I do acknowledge that some can drink in moderation, although perhaps, to not offend unbelievers and weaker Christians, that moderate drinking should be done in private? On the other hand, I know some very strong Christians, including a missionary couple who are from Europe. Very different cultural standards there. These people would never offend anyone, or cause a brother or sister to fall. But they do drink in moderation at home. That is between them and God.
What I do not like about this thread, is reading the pain of certain individuals that God has not delivered from alcohol. Not because of me, or my standards, but because of their pain. I have always said that deliverance from alcohol was a gift of God for me. But acknowledged that God gives us different gifts. And different healing! I am not yet healed of Rheumatoid Arthritis, and this journey has brought me closer to God and to trust him more, in spite of the debilitating pain. (Please pray for me, this week has been horrific with regards to flares and pain!)
And I will be praying for those who are still caught in the clutches of "rum by gum" * that God will give the gift of abstinence, too!
The Song of the Temperance Union
[video=youtube;Dkfh0Et4XLU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkfh0Et4XLU[/video]
I also appreciate that although there are differences regarding "abstinence vs moderation" no one is really angry or personally attacking people. Like I said in my last post, I have changed radically on this issue. Never having to drink again was a gift from God for me, and I would never scorn that gift. But I do acknowledge that some can drink in moderation, although perhaps, to not offend unbelievers and weaker Christians, that moderate drinking should be done in private? On the other hand, I know some very strong Christians, including a missionary couple who are from Europe. Very different cultural standards there. These people would never offend anyone, or cause a brother or sister to fall. But they do drink in moderation at home. That is between them and God.
What I do not like about this thread, is reading the pain of certain individuals that God has not delivered from alcohol. Not because of me, or my standards, but because of their pain. I have always said that deliverance from alcohol was a gift of God for me. But acknowledged that God gives us different gifts. And different healing! I am not yet healed of Rheumatoid Arthritis, and this journey has brought me closer to God and to trust him more, in spite of the debilitating pain. (Please pray for me, this week has been horrific with regards to flares and pain!)
And I will be praying for those who are still caught in the clutches of "rum by gum" * that God will give the gift of abstinence, too!
The Song of the Temperance Union
[video=youtube;Dkfh0Et4XLU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkfh0Et4XLU[/video]
U
There's nothing inherently "christian" about a strife maker, slanderer, divider etc....it would be like saying your a "good" robber....bottom line is the person is still a robber no matter how he justifies it.... but I do understand your post some people get tied up in knots b/c of one topic in the Bible and glaze over the rest of it...
M
Lord you know the heart of our dear sister and her willingness to help others. Free her from
this awful pain that she may go about your business and hers rejoicing and at peace. Disable
this disability and may your power increase in her life as the power of pain reduces. Give her
a purpose and determination and the ability to stride out in your name.
Amen
These two posts are good examples of over generalization, and without any evidence, either anecdotal or with statistics.
So in fact, that really makes it unjustified slander!! And to think I was just posting about how this thread had not had any slander in it only a page ago. Sigh! And to quote another word - strife! What is the point of these two posts but to cause strife?
I know for sure, that I do not dwell on only one sin! I try to deal with all sin in my life, and I'll bet that applies not only to people in this forum, but also to Christians elsewhere. Just sad that you would attack people who have had life changing experiences from God, with regards to being delivered from alcohol, and then you would attack them for relating this experience, and why they do not think any drinking is right - most of these posts have been supported with Scripture, which neither of these posts are!
Very sad, and I hope you will both repent, and show mercy and grace to your brothers and sisters in Christ, instead of attacking them with slander, trying to cause strife and division, just because you didn't agree with their conclusions in the matter of whether everyone should totally abstain from alcohol, or accept that some people can drink in moderation.
Like I said before, for at least 30 years or more, I was against ALL and ANY Christians drinking. I do repent of maybe hurting and insulting people. And I also thank God for showing me that while I MUST abstain forever, that is not always the case for others. Do I like drinking at all? Never - it disgusts me - but that is my personal response, and it is not my business to judge people. But I do defend people who strongly feel that no Christian should drink and I still think that there are lots of reasons the church would be in much better shape if no one did - absolutely!
So awaiting your apologies! You know, for slander, strife and divisions, that sort of thing! You certainly do not have the right to judge these Christians either! You know nothing of their lives, and the work that the Holy Spirit is doing, and has done in their hearts, lives, and bodies!
So in fact, that really makes it unjustified slander!! And to think I was just posting about how this thread had not had any slander in it only a page ago. Sigh! And to quote another word - strife! What is the point of these two posts but to cause strife?
I know for sure, that I do not dwell on only one sin! I try to deal with all sin in my life, and I'll bet that applies not only to people in this forum, but also to Christians elsewhere. Just sad that you would attack people who have had life changing experiences from God, with regards to being delivered from alcohol, and then you would attack them for relating this experience, and why they do not think any drinking is right - most of these posts have been supported with Scripture, which neither of these posts are!
Very sad, and I hope you will both repent, and show mercy and grace to your brothers and sisters in Christ, instead of attacking them with slander, trying to cause strife and division, just because you didn't agree with their conclusions in the matter of whether everyone should totally abstain from alcohol, or accept that some people can drink in moderation.
Like I said before, for at least 30 years or more, I was against ALL and ANY Christians drinking. I do repent of maybe hurting and insulting people. And I also thank God for showing me that while I MUST abstain forever, that is not always the case for others. Do I like drinking at all? Never - it disgusts me - but that is my personal response, and it is not my business to judge people. But I do defend people who strongly feel that no Christian should drink and I still think that there are lots of reasons the church would be in much better shape if no one did - absolutely!
So awaiting your apologies! You know, for slander, strife and divisions, that sort of thing! You certainly do not have the right to judge these Christians either! You know nothing of their lives, and the work that the Holy Spirit is doing, and has done in their hearts, lives, and bodies!
L
are there any reformed smokers or gluttons on this thread?
I have never been an alcoholic, so I can't say much about that
however, God DID deliver me from backbiting, gossip and a few other sins of the flesh
I don't know why these threads always turn into an advert for al-anon
or why folks think their testimony proves what scripture does not in fact say
you know, praise God for delivering you from alcoholism, but don't sound like you are above someone who has a drink now and then
and no, I'm not mocking...but this thread is a clone of the last one
only some of the avatars have changed
otherwise, same players & sayers all saying the same thing...literally LOL!
I have never been an alcoholic, so I can't say much about that
however, God DID deliver me from backbiting, gossip and a few other sins of the flesh
I don't know why these threads always turn into an advert for al-anon
or why folks think their testimony proves what scripture does not in fact say
you know, praise God for delivering you from alcoholism, but don't sound like you are above someone who has a drink now and then
and no, I'm not mocking...but this thread is a clone of the last one
only some of the avatars have changed
otherwise, same players & sayers all saying the same thing...literally LOL!
I myself was given the gift of desperation. Quitting drinking and drugging had not
really been a part of my plan. It was a lifestyle choice that I partook in frequently.
Though I had tried a few times to stop, or cut down, especially my drinking, I would
always return to it in part because I simply felt so lost in life and did not know what
else to do with myself. Drinking and drugging was a way of coping with the hurts of life.
I attempted to manage my drug addiction by using softer drugs.
The problem was that I could not see how drinking itself, how drugging also, contributed
to my inability to deal effectively with the challenges and struggles I faced in living life.
When I cried out to God for help, it was not for help to quit drinking and drugging,
and yet that is how I was helped! Quitting the substance abuse slowly helped
everything else get better. I had a lot to learn, mostly about boundaries and
also about being honest, for I was terribly codependent, and experienced great
difficulty telling you the truth of what I thought or how I felt if I believed it
would somehow hurt your feelings or upset any perceived harmony between us.
Need I say it? This was a huge handicap in my life.
Some people do not understand the need to continue going to meetings once
one has quit. Part of the reason I continue to go to meetings is to try to help
those who come through the doors looking for help. It is a steady stream.
Some come and stay. Some people come and go. Some come in and leave
to use again and die. It is always a tragedy to lose someone to this disease.
As a Christian it is so easy for me now to acknowledge that Satan has a heavy
hand in addictions. It is called the cunning enemy of life in Narcotics anonymous,
and alcohol is described as being cunning, baffling and powerful in AA. There is
One Who has all power. That One is God. May you find Him now!
really been a part of my plan. It was a lifestyle choice that I partook in frequently.
Though I had tried a few times to stop, or cut down, especially my drinking, I would
always return to it in part because I simply felt so lost in life and did not know what
else to do with myself. Drinking and drugging was a way of coping with the hurts of life.
I attempted to manage my drug addiction by using softer drugs.
The problem was that I could not see how drinking itself, how drugging also, contributed
to my inability to deal effectively with the challenges and struggles I faced in living life.
When I cried out to God for help, it was not for help to quit drinking and drugging,
and yet that is how I was helped! Quitting the substance abuse slowly helped
everything else get better. I had a lot to learn, mostly about boundaries and
also about being honest, for I was terribly codependent, and experienced great
difficulty telling you the truth of what I thought or how I felt if I believed it
would somehow hurt your feelings or upset any perceived harmony between us.
Need I say it? This was a huge handicap in my life.
Some people do not understand the need to continue going to meetings once
one has quit. Part of the reason I continue to go to meetings is to try to help
those who come through the doors looking for help. It is a steady stream.
Some come and stay. Some people come and go. Some come in and leave
to use again and die. It is always a tragedy to lose someone to this disease.
As a Christian it is so easy for me now to acknowledge that Satan has a heavy
hand in addictions. It is called the cunning enemy of life in Narcotics anonymous,
and alcohol is described as being cunning, baffling and powerful in AA. There is
One Who has all power. That One is God. May you find Him now!
L
ps...ask me how much alcohol in any form is in my home right now
none
it's the principal of the thing
and besides, it would be fun to talk about gluttony...no?
I bet some folks would sure nuff get their dander up then!!!!
hey...I'm not being all that serious so please do not get in a huff
and...I am NOT making fun...so let's not go there either
more hugs
none
it's the principal of the thing
and besides, it would be fun to talk about gluttony...no?
I bet some folks would sure nuff get their dander up then!!!!
hey...I'm not being all that serious so please do not get in a huff
and...I am NOT making fun...so let's not go there either
more hugs
L
oh wait! wait!
I just remembered I got a dressing down on this thread from someone who misunderstood what I posted
I got told to take my eyes off the world and come back to Jesus
so, I guess I am a target...a moving target to be sure LOL!
my point? misunderstanding is going to cause what does not need to happen and the other thing that will surely cause friction, is folks trying to SHAME others into shutting up
this is a DISCUSSION forum...respect the discussion
love,
a reformed gossip (oh I didn't see it as gossip...but God did!!!!)
ps....misunderstanding was cleared up
I just remembered I got a dressing down on this thread from someone who misunderstood what I posted
I got told to take my eyes off the world and come back to Jesus
so, I guess I am a target...a moving target to be sure LOL!
my point? misunderstanding is going to cause what does not need to happen and the other thing that will surely cause friction, is folks trying to SHAME others into shutting up
this is a DISCUSSION forum...respect the discussion
love,
a reformed gossip (oh I didn't see it as gossip...but God did!!!!)
ps....misunderstanding was cleared up