A true Christian is a "follower" of Jesus Christ
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Romans 10:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
[HR][/HR]Romans 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
[HR][/HR]Hebrews 11:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
If parroting the Bible is no good, then parroting Joseph Prince & his heresy is no good either.
AAMOF, Hypergracers do more parroting than anyone I know. So tell your cronies to heal themselves.
[HR][/HR]
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
[HR][/HR]Romans 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
[HR][/HR]Hebrews 11:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
If parroting the Bible is no good, then parroting Joseph Prince & his heresy is no good either.
AAMOF, Hypergracers do more parroting than anyone I know. So tell your cronies to heal themselves.
[HR][/HR]
amen, its Like they know he suffered so greatly on thier behalf, took thier sin on him, went to the grave and annhialated death for them...and thats not enough for the false doctrine thinking. they still want Him to die again and again to protect the human desires to give free reign to the flesh and Jesus will just continue suffering rather than following Him from the tomb and beginning to serve thier King. He already has done it all, and gave us a perfect example of what we are supposed to take upon ourselves by picking up our cross and putting our flesh to death. its really the doctrine in the minds of people that is the issue, i think personally they do believe that Jesus came to save them, yet they havent come into a true Love for Him as of yet. the doctrine teaches them to just say Jesus died and rose so therefore, what i do doesnt matter now. they assume " putting to death thier sinful nature " is to act as if sin isnt sin. not to confess it because then you are "sin conscious" or conscious of your own sin, which is exactly what we are suppose to feel conviction about so that it makes us feel godly sorrow, and if we know He died, for our sin, we should feel enough sorrow to lead us to stop doing the things He died to remove.
Godly sorrow for our sin is a great thing, if we refuse to accept sorrow for our sin, we will never have a reason to repent. the thinking of this doctrine is " Just learn eho you are in Christ" but really we need to learn who Jesus wants us to be, and then put His words into action which will truly make us a new creation, then we will simply know who we are in Him, by learning Jesus and following Him, we find the new creation within us. this op is a great one for discussion
the good news is that through belief , you are set free from slavery to sin. to me that is fabulous news having been a great sinner that didnt want to live that way, the greatest news is Jesus has now enabled us to lay sin down and be righteous by simply acceopting the Christ and holding Him to truth. Godly sorrow is a good thing. we shouldnt praise our lives of sin, we should praise Jesus for giving us a new Life and the capability to repent of our sin, having broken the bonds of it on our lives. the more a person learns and follows Jesus Christ, because of all he has done, the more joy will come. Gods will is for Believers to be sanctified, not excused to remain as we are. its great news all through this thread.....
you are not saved to remain in sin, its no ones opinion, it is the truth of Jesus Chjrist and His own words. if Jesus says " obey my commands" and he does again and again is he now a bad guy to you because His word doesnt allow us to remain as we were before him? refusing to repent is the only thing that will disqualify people. to continue doing what is death is death, to accept the gift of righteousness and follow it will lead to everlasting Life. where is the argument? why argue that God is willing that we continue in sin free of correction? anyone can understand that God will never say sin is okay. He will always say the same as from the beginning. sin is death, righteousness is Life. In Christ it is fully available to those who will believe His own words......all comes through the gospel. its okay to believe Jesus, he will always be right about what He said. and the devil will always say "nah, jesus doesnt understand, his way wont work, his words arent the words"
the fruit is deadly, its not oppression to avoid what God has said will kill.
ephesians 2:10 "For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance FOR US TO DO."
its not trying to be saved , its responding to the truth. it doesnt say this " you are Gods handi work created to do as you want and have no consequence" nor does it say " you are Gods Handy work created to do nothing" the word Just is true, it says what it says. its not an attack or insult or judging another to be truthful about what God has said. Jesus died so that sinners can be free of slavery to sin, and choose to follow The Lord with all thier heart. if that sounds like working to be saved it should reveal something to those who think that way about the doctrine they follow. if it dishonors Jesus to believe His own words in someones mind, they should see that there is something way off
I'm gonna bring this up again, even though I sound like a broken record.
IF the Hypergracers are right, WHY are they fighting a death match of an argument with all the others against them? I know that sounds over the top, I said that to draw attention to the issue. IF they're right, then EVERY PERSON HERE WHO HAS CALLED ON JESUS TO SAVE THEM IS SAVED. Their arguments are useless & without merit, because ACCORDING TO THEIR DOCTRINE if ANY of us lead someone to Jesus "our way", they're saved, because we all believe enough of the same thing.
I'm asking non HG'ers to think in a "common sense", yes, carnal way to consider what I'm saying. I can see why "we" are arguing, because we don't believe it. BUT THEM? They ought to be loving, kind, & praising God that they are already winners, that we're all saved, & we're ALL going to heaven, no matter what, because none of our salvation can be revoked.
A Biblical example:
Philippians 1:15-18 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: [SUP]16 [/SUP]The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: [SUP]17 [/SUP]But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. [SUP]18 [/SUP]What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
See the point? Paul was rejoicing, because either way the gospel was preached!
So..... why are they arguing? Why are they united as one to win their cause in the BDF? When they could just tell us to get over ourselves, 'cause we're all going, like it or not? Why the attitudes, why the roughness, why must they win this thing, seemingly at all cost?
I submit that we know the answer, for according to our beliefs, we who change sides lose EVERYTHING. I also submit they're arguing to the end because they know that as well. They know where they're taking us. They know the real cost. (at least many of them do)
Look at how many of "us" have left CC because they're tired of it, yet they seem like it's nothing to them. They're increasing, just as the Bible said they would.
I'm suggesting that some of "them" are professionals at what they do, not just good ole' boys with a different opinion. Hired professionals.
Every time I mention this, arguments stop dramatically for a while, then increase again.
Does this sound crazy? We do know what kind of a world we live in, don't we? Satan's time is short, isn't it? The NWO is coming closer, isn't it? The church is falling away at breakneck speed, isn't it?
Pleeeze, say you'll consider what I've said. What do I gain If I'm telling you a lie? What would be my purpose to do that?
IF the Hypergracers are right, WHY are they fighting a death match of an argument with all the others against them? I know that sounds over the top, I said that to draw attention to the issue. IF they're right, then EVERY PERSON HERE WHO HAS CALLED ON JESUS TO SAVE THEM IS SAVED. Their arguments are useless & without merit, because ACCORDING TO THEIR DOCTRINE if ANY of us lead someone to Jesus "our way", they're saved, because we all believe enough of the same thing.
I'm asking non HG'ers to think in a "common sense", yes, carnal way to consider what I'm saying. I can see why "we" are arguing, because we don't believe it. BUT THEM? They ought to be loving, kind, & praising God that they are already winners, that we're all saved, & we're ALL going to heaven, no matter what, because none of our salvation can be revoked.
A Biblical example:
Philippians 1:15-18 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: [SUP]16 [/SUP]The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: [SUP]17 [/SUP]But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. [SUP]18 [/SUP]What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
See the point? Paul was rejoicing, because either way the gospel was preached!
So..... why are they arguing? Why are they united as one to win their cause in the BDF? When they could just tell us to get over ourselves, 'cause we're all going, like it or not? Why the attitudes, why the roughness, why must they win this thing, seemingly at all cost?
I submit that we know the answer, for according to our beliefs, we who change sides lose EVERYTHING. I also submit they're arguing to the end because they know that as well. They know where they're taking us. They know the real cost. (at least many of them do)
Look at how many of "us" have left CC because they're tired of it, yet they seem like it's nothing to them. They're increasing, just as the Bible said they would.
I'm suggesting that some of "them" are professionals at what they do, not just good ole' boys with a different opinion. Hired professionals.
Every time I mention this, arguments stop dramatically for a while, then increase again.
Does this sound crazy? We do know what kind of a world we live in, don't we? Satan's time is short, isn't it? The NWO is coming closer, isn't it? The church is falling away at breakneck speed, isn't it?
Pleeeze, say you'll consider what I've said. What do I gain If I'm telling you a lie? What would be my purpose to do that?
E
So YOUR interpretation is what we go by? Since when, Who made you God?
Being sanctified means being set apart. Means being changed, That is the defenition from God. Not Stephens defenition.
Are you perfect? If not. You have not lived up to Gods standard, thus you have not been righteous enough to earn the right to have eternal life.
Stop making yourself better than other people. when in the eyes of a holy and righteous God. not one person here in christian chat is better than another, We ALL have, are, and will sin and fall short of Gods glory.
I can't lose something I CAN"T EARN. WHich means since I will never be righteous enough to earn eternal life, How can I ever lose it?
You want to think you are holy and righteous by your own righteousness. Thats on you my friend, But do not expect Gods people to sit still while you try to get other people to follow in your legalistic ways. Because they will not..
E
Thats funny, Satan says God has us all tied to his sleigh and hits us with whips to force us to do his will (take us where he wants us to go)
God says, I love you I will BRING YOU TO WHERE I AM by sending my son to take what you owe so I can restore our relationship. Then when you get here, You will willingly follow "My Sheep hear my voice, and they follow"
Either way, Good luck finding jesus by your own power.
E
um Excuse me sir, You are the one crucifying jesus over and over again saying salvation, which was paid for on the cross. can be lost and regained over and over again.
We on the other hand, Praise him for his gift, Are gratefull for his gift, His gift causes us to want to please him more. Not less. You have been listening to the same lies these others have been taught and are preaching, The law does not make people righteous, If it did, The jews would have been the most righteous people on earth. They could not keep it up. Because the law never could make them righteous, They had to water down the law. Pick and chose which sins were ok, and which were EVIL..
They forgot, ALL sin (no matter how small) Is evil. When God looks at us, he does not use the sliding scale so he can let some people in, and reject others He does not let some sin go, while judging others, He judges all sin. And in his eyes, ALL have sinned and fallen short. Not one persom deserves his love or his mercy. His scale is plain, It is simple.
Gal 3 - [SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”
There is Gods standard, As james said, If we break even the least of the law. We are guilty of the whole law. What is the result? We ARE CURSED BY THE LAW.
Until you realise this, There is no repentance. All you can possibly have is self righteous thinking, pride, and watering down the law to a point where you can feel good about yourself and your work for God.. Well guess what, the pharisee thought this and they crucified Christ, If this is who you want to relate with (only in a non jewish way) then thats on you. But stop trying to lie about us,,
Here is Godly sorrow vs self righteous sorrow.
The pharisee, Praised God he was not like the sinner (in this case like the hypergrace/grace believer who trusts God alone but loves their sin) And praised all the work they did
The tax collector. So understanding of how sinful he is, unable to even look up to heaven, Said God pleasehave mercy on my soul.
WHo did Jesus say went home justified? The religious pharisee legalist. Or the hypergrace sinner? who just repented, got on his knees and cried out to the lord in prayer?
We on the other hand, Praise him for his gift, Are gratefull for his gift, His gift causes us to want to please him more. Not less. You have been listening to the same lies these others have been taught and are preaching, The law does not make people righteous, If it did, The jews would have been the most righteous people on earth. They could not keep it up. Because the law never could make them righteous, They had to water down the law. Pick and chose which sins were ok, and which were EVIL..
They forgot, ALL sin (no matter how small) Is evil. When God looks at us, he does not use the sliding scale so he can let some people in, and reject others He does not let some sin go, while judging others, He judges all sin. And in his eyes, ALL have sinned and fallen short. Not one persom deserves his love or his mercy. His scale is plain, It is simple.
Gal 3 - [SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”
There is Gods standard, As james said, If we break even the least of the law. We are guilty of the whole law. What is the result? We ARE CURSED BY THE LAW.
Until you realise this, There is no repentance. All you can possibly have is self righteous thinking, pride, and watering down the law to a point where you can feel good about yourself and your work for God.. Well guess what, the pharisee thought this and they crucified Christ, If this is who you want to relate with (only in a non jewish way) then thats on you. But stop trying to lie about us,,
Here is Godly sorrow vs self righteous sorrow.
The pharisee, Praised God he was not like the sinner (in this case like the hypergrace/grace believer who trusts God alone but loves their sin) And praised all the work they did
The tax collector. So understanding of how sinful he is, unable to even look up to heaven, Said God pleasehave mercy on my soul.
WHo did Jesus say went home justified? The religious pharisee legalist. Or the hypergrace sinner? who just repented, got on his knees and cried out to the lord in prayer?
E
Wow, Who here is praising their sin? Please. The legalism praises their sin, because they rin around telling everyone how righteous they are, How sorry they were, And how great they are.. while in reality, what they do is say their sin does not stink, and everyone elses does..
Please, Open your eyes and see what is really happening here.