Holiness Is Not Legalism

[Ariel82]

Wow..,prayer break needed...

I like the sermon from Wesley.

However, sometimes...people post in addition not as an attack upon the OP..

More Humbleness and gentleness would display God's love and truth more than confrontational defensive attitudes.

 

[Stephen63]

First I read this.....

Oh is that so?

I have been to many a church, I have never found a church that did not teach one should not walkin Christ. I think the problem is not as wide spoken as you think.

And my opinion is true, A legalist is a person who claims salvation is dependent on things we do. That's plain and simple..

No one I have ever met would call a person a legalist because they say we should walk like Jesus walked. The only people I ever hear this accusation from are legalists, who refuse to admit they teach works.

Then I read this....

Those who are christs do not need to worry if Christ comes, They are secure, If a person is worried that if Christ comes, they might be lost. Then they have major problems, Because their faith evidently is not in Christ.

their focus should be on living the word. working out your salvation so people can be drawn to you and find the rest and assurance you have.

How can you say you can't have works to keep salvation, then say "working out your salvation"? Please give plain scripture references.

 

[Stephen63]

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, [SUP][d][/SUP]precious stones, wood, hay, straw, [SUP]13 [/SUP]each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test [SUP][e][/SUP]the quality of each man’s work. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. [SUP]15 [/SUP]If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

If only you went 2 verses further.....
1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? [SUP]17 [/SUP]If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

BTW, Sinners are not temples of God, for He's not in there yet.

 

[Grace777x70]

If only you went 2 verses further.....
1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? [SUP]17 [/SUP]If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

BTW, Sinners are not temples of God, for He's not in there yet.

It's always good to get the "context" of scripture or that "text" can "con" us.

1 Corinthians 3:12-17 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,

[SUP]13 [/SUP] each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.

[SUP]14 [/SUP] If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

[SUP]16 [/SUP] Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

[SUP]17 [/SUP] If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.


Here is a take on this scripture which I also believe when it is looked at in context.

"The preceding illustration about building on the foundation of Christ has been applied on an individual level to teach about people’s personal responsibility for their own actions.

However, it must be remembered that in context, Paul was speaking about ministers and whether or not they were building up God’s church with the proper teaching (see note 1 at 1 Corinthians 3:10).

Therefore, Paul’s teaching here about defiling the temple of God is not speaking specifically to individuals doing something to defile themselves, but it is rather a warning against anyone defiling the church with wrong teaching. This would include Paul and Apollos (1 Corinthians 3:5-6), but it also would refer back to those individuals whom Paul rebuked in the first chapter for causing division in the body at Corinth.

This is a warning especially for ministers, that they had better make sure they are speaking God’s Word for they will have to give an account to God."

Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a note on the "God will destroy" part in 1 Cor 6:17.

1 Corinthians 3:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.


Note 9 at 1 Corinthians 3:17: Taken in context, this verse is continuing the same thought that was expressed in the illustration of the different building materials (1 Corinthians 3:12-15).

Remember that Paul said those who were guilty of using the wrong building materials (works of the flesh - see note 3 at 1 Corinthians 3:13) would suffer loss, but they themselves would be saved (see note 6 at 1 Corinthians 3:15).

Therefore, Paul was not speaking of utter destruction when he used the word “destroy.”
The Greek word that was translated “destroy” here is “PHTHEIRO.”

It was only used in seven scriptures in the New Testament, and six of those times, it was translated “corrupt” or “corrupted” (1 Corinthians 15:33; 2 Corinthians 7:2, 11:3; Ephesians 4:22; Jude 10; and Revelation 19:2). The only two other translations are here in 1 Corinthians 3:17. This same Greek word that was translated “destroy” was also translated “defile” here.

This is, no doubt, an allusion to the method of conduct in the physical temple at Jerusalem. There were very strict laws governing things that would defile the temple (Leviticus 15:31, 20:3; Numbers 19:20; Ezekiel 5:11, and 23:38-39). A classic scriptural example of this is when Paul was accused of letting a Gentile enter the temple (Acts 21:27-31). The Jews sought to kill Paul for this defiling of God’s temple.

Paul was saying that in the same way the Jews would not allow the physical temple in Jerusalem to be defiled, so should they have recognized that God will not allow His spiritual temple in people’s hearts to be defiled.

This is not speaking of God totally damning someone who defiles the temple of God. However, no degree of punishment from God is desirable, and so this is a very stern warning to those who would defile the body of Christ through their wrong teaching.

Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary.

 

[Stephen63]

Wommack is WOF..... been proven. Find a commentary that isn't.

 

[Stephen63]

1 Corinthians 6:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

 

[Zmouth]

Legalism is saying something is required to be saved, Stay saved, and or not lose salvation.

So does not have to have faith in God in order to be saved?

It would seem that saying one has to have faith in God in order to be saved is saying that something is required to be saved is legalism is it not?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

First I read this.....
Then I read this....


How can you say you can't have works to keep salvation, then say "working out your salvation"? Please give plain scripture references.

It simple.

To work out your salvation, You have to have possession of that salvation.

Your not working to earn something you do not have, Your working out what is already yours.

I know, I know, that is hard for some people to understand,

One thing I would ask, is how can a person who is already saved, need saved again, Thats like saying a person who is at work, Needs to go to work.. That makes no sense,

plus If this is true, he was never saved to begin with,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So does not have to have faith in God in order to be saved?

It would seem that saying one has to have faith in God in order to be saved is saying that something is required to be saved is legalism is it not?

Is it?

If I have faith in someone else to do the work for me, what work did I perform. What did I earn?

Thats like a man who was trapped under a heavy steal beam in a burning building who had faith in the firefighter to save his life and pull hi from the flame. Then when he got out. He boasts and said he saved himself, That makes no sense, Imagine the reaction he would get.

 

[Zmouth]

Is it?

If I have faith in someone else to do the work for me, what work did I perform. What did I earn?

Thats like a man who was trapped under a heavy steal beam in a burning building who had faith in the firefighter to save his life and pull hi from the flame. Then when he got out. He boasts and said he saved himself, That makes no sense, Imagine the reaction he would get.

Good counter point! However, does one have to have faith in the firefighter in order for the firefighter to save his life?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good counter point! However, does one have to have faith in the firefighter in order for the firefighter to save his life?

Will the firefighter over rule that person ad save him if he does not want saved? Maybe,, But God will not over rule our free will. If we say no, God will grant us our wish.

 

[Zmouth]

Yes but God gives the gift of faith without us asking. If we are saved by our faith then faith is not a gift that is given to us.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:8

Did Paul ask for faith? Paul had no choice. Acts 9:1-4
9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

"... but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?" Romans 8:24

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 1 Cor 12:4
~~~~~~
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 1 Cor 12:9

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes but God gives the gift of faith without us asking. If we are saved by our faith then faith is not a gift that is given to us.

I disagree, God asks us to trust him, Thats why he said, Whoever believes in him has eternal life.. He died for the whole world. but only those who trust him will be saved.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:8

Yes, God is offering us the gift, But he will not force us to take it, He will only give it if we trust him and ask him for it, He knows our heart, whetehr our faiht is real, or if it is dead (mere belief) see James.

Did Paul ask for faith? Paul had no choice. Acts 9:1-4
9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

"... but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?" Romans 8:24

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 1 Cor 12:4
~~~~~~
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 1 Cor 12:9

Paul was given the opportunity to say no.. He had to chose to say your and trust God, or say no, I will continue to do it my way. God did not force him to say yes

 

[JaumeJ]

It is so true that holiness is not legalism; it is also true tht disobedience is unholy. It is equated to witch craft.
There is no great mystery to this. Most will obey the parents given to them in this age, so why would any adopted child of God choose to be deliberately disobedient.........

 

[Grace777x70]

Wommack is WOF..... been proven. Find a commentary that isn't.

So, because you disagree with him on some subjects that makes what he says invalidated? I hardly think so but I do understand the need to malign him though....I know how this game is played....

 

[JaumeJ]

What is a WOF?

 

[Grace777x70]

1 Corinthians 6:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

Yes...God dwells in the inner man that is in Christ that has been created in righteousness and holiness which corresponds to the inner sanctuary in the old Jewish temple.

There are 2 Greek words for "temple" - one is "Hieron" which refers to the entire temple but that is not the Greek word used in 1 Cor.6:19. It is the Greek word "Naos" which refers to the inner sanctuary, God's dwelling place. It is also used this way 42 other times in this way.

Isn't it exciting to know that God dwells in our new creation in Christ and that He said the Holy Spirit would never leave us? (John 14:16; 2 John 1:2 ).

Does this fact want to make us go out and sin all we want? Of course not - it does the complete opposite. The true hearing of the grace of God which is in Christ's finished work changes us and instructs to live godly lives in this world.

So, let's preach and teach the grace of Christ because it is the only thing that teaches us while we are in this earth.

 

[Grace777x70]

What is a WOF?

It's called the "word of faith."

It comes from this verse.

Romans 10:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

Some people don't agree with some things about faith and healing and so they go about making derogatory labels about those that believe differently than some others do in some areas of faith and believing in God's word.

Of course this makes them "heretics"...

No one church or group have all the truth which is why we need each other.

 

[mailmandan]

Hebrews 4:12 - For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

HOLINESS IS
NOT LEGALISM.

Without holiness no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). The NASB reads - "and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord." To be sanctified is to be "set apart/made holy." Yet people who teach salvation by works seem to interpret this verse to mean that "in addition to being justified and sanctified," we must obtain a certain level of "personal holiness" that is attained through our performance if we expect to see God.