History of the Sabbath - Have you been tricked?
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strange?
wow.
God says, "Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy".
xtian says, "I don't have to do that"
strange?
Because Ephraim has multiplied altars for sinning, they have become to him altars for sinning.
Were I to write for him my laws (Torah) by the ten thousands, they would be regarded as a strange thing.
Hosea 8:11-12 (ESV2011, MBM)
O
Officermayo
Guest
When one cannot refute a postulation with facts, the first page of the playbook requires a personal attack, even when there's no evidence to back up the accusation. Typical.
O
Officermayo
Guest
Most of what, are pretty nice folks. That which you call Xtians? Rather than using the new name God named His people. (Christian) Which is not what the Jews named them . Why did Christ name his followers Christian?
Just curious but why would a person when using the word God leave out the letter o (G-d) when addressing Jehovah our savior and leave out the Christ in Christian (Xtian) ? Is it being politically correct?
I think we are talking about the laws of God and not commandments of men called the fathers. God's law is found exclusively in His book of the law, the bible. Not the laws of the fathers used to kill the Christians which you call the Torah and then added it to the scriptures as if the things of men did not offend the things of God. They are Christ's nemesis.
Romans 14: KJV
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
I am not referring to commandments of men any time, at least not in a positive way.
Technically, the Torah is the first 5 books, also called the Pentateuch.
In the KJV Old Testament, most of the time the Hebrew word "Torah" is translated into English as "law".
F
FreeNChrist
Guest
O
Officermayo
Guest
"Christian" is not an issue for me personally, but here are the facts:
How and when was the word "Christian" first used?
The term 'Christian' was used to describe a follwer of Christ in terms of the world, from the world’s point of view. The pagans at Antioch called the apostles "Christians" first (Acts 11:26; 26:28) and used it derogatorily because the apostles didn’t follow the commercial world of the pagans. "Christian" is an adjective, not a noun. The substance is not in the word "Christian", the substance is in the heart of the man it is attempting to describe, and which the pagan user cannot see.
Christ never called the term Christian nor called his followers Christians. The apostles never called each other Christians. Christ never used an adjective to describe himself. So how are we to identify ourselves then? The disciples called each other, "brethren", "disciples", "apostles", "servants", "believers", "followers", "the faithful", "the elect", "the called", and "saints." We can also identify ourselves as "bondservants" of Christ.
And some of them also I will take for priests and for Levites, says YHVH. "For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain. From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares YHVH.
Isaiah 66:21-23 (ESV2011, MBM)
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up. And as was his custom, he went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and he stood up to read.Luke 4:16 (ESV2011, MBM)
And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and tried to persuade Jews and Greeks.Acts 18:4 (ESV2011, MBM)
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Since we are required to compare the spiritual words of Christ to the spiritual, or faith as it is written, to the same spirit of faith.
By looking at the use of the word called .I would think we would have a answer for God who wrote it. It(chrematizo) is used nine time in the new testament as the promised new name he would call us.
Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Matthew 2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
Matthew 2:22 But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee:
Luke 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
Acts 10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Hebrews 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Hebrews 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Strongs lexicon ....5537 chrematizo {khray-mat-id'-zo}
from 5536; TDNT - 9:480,1319; v
AV - be warned of God 3, call 2, be admonished of God 1, reveal 1, speak 1, be warned from God 1; 9
1) to transact business, esp. to manage public affairs 1a) to advise or consult with one about public affairs 1b) to make answer to those who ask for advice, present enquiries or requests, etc. 1b1) of judges, magistrates, rulers, kings 2) to give a response to those consulting an oracle, to give a divine command or admonition, to teach from heaven 2a) to be divinely commanded, admonished, instructed 2b) to be the mouthpiece of divine revelations, to promulgate the commands of God 3) to assume or take to one's self a name from one's public business 3a) to receive a name or title, be called
one of your smoke-screen strategies.
We were discussing the word "Christian".
So you go off on another tangent to cover up.
L
LaurenTM
Guest
almost Shabbat...history of Shabbat
I think we are all waiting for the movie to come out......
gonna be called 'Mike digs the Shabbat'
I think we are all waiting for the movie to come out......
gonna be called 'Mike digs the Shabbat'
almost Shabbat...history of Shabbat
I think we are all waiting for the movie to come out......
gonna be called 'Mike digs the Shabbat'
could be right!
good morning to you ma'am.
L
LaurenTM
Guest
been mornin out my way a long time...working into lunch now
good morning to you too mr Shabbat
P
pottersclay
Guest
Mike, I cannot condone or condemn on how you have been led to worship the Lord.that is the work of the holy spirit.
I know many including I have told you of our position on scripture, therefore we have done our part.
I must warn you that in following the feast days and Torah you have placed yourself on a razors edge.
If you do it out of a clear thought to please the Lord that's between you and him, if you do it as looking at it required then you are at fault. If you draw attention to your practices then again you are at fault. If you teach others that these practices are what's required for salvation or a closer walk and better relationship again you are at fault.
There are many here that scoff at the "old ways" preventing them in learning the spiritual meaning and significance. None the less they are saved as saved can be. I personally do not want to walk that razors edge. I am quite confident in my saviors work and rest in that. Each day is a new beginning for me as his thoughts toward me each day are new, thoughts that are precious and of peace. I and most of the saints here are that new creation, that new creature found in Christ Jesus. For us the old is passed away, all things become new.
I know many including I have told you of our position on scripture, therefore we have done our part.
I must warn you that in following the feast days and Torah you have placed yourself on a razors edge.
If you do it out of a clear thought to please the Lord that's between you and him, if you do it as looking at it required then you are at fault. If you draw attention to your practices then again you are at fault. If you teach others that these practices are what's required for salvation or a closer walk and better relationship again you are at fault.
There are many here that scoff at the "old ways" preventing them in learning the spiritual meaning and significance. None the less they are saved as saved can be. I personally do not want to walk that razors edge. I am quite confident in my saviors work and rest in that. Each day is a new beginning for me as his thoughts toward me each day are new, thoughts that are precious and of peace. I and most of the saints here are that new creation, that new creature found in Christ Jesus. For us the old is passed away, all things become new.
Romans 14...
Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
The subject here? Vegetarianism
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth
not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
So, if you encounter one who is weak in the faith and believes he must eat vegetables only,
don’t let this puff you up…
2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some
that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing
themselves among themselves, are not wise.
What is the gold standard here?
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us,
leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth
or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Now to the meat and potatoes…
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike.
Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day,
to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks;
and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee,
that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
From Bullingers Companion Bible…
Luke 18:12
twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7).
By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts.
In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost;
and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.
Yes they fasted two days a week, Monday and Thursday, EVERY MONDAY and EVERY THURSDAY.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord:
whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both
of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?
for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather,
that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself:
but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably.
Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Now Paul shifts his attention to meat offered to idols. At the time, meat and drink were offered
to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.
1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
Shambles…
G3111
µa´?e????
makellon
Thayer Definition:
1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Latin origin [macellum]
Citing in TDNT: 4:370, 549
There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by this.
They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the
idolatrous practices around them. This is why the following is written…
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness,
and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Meat here is…
G1035
ß???s??
bro¯sis
bro'-sis
From the base of G977; (abstractly) eating (literally or figuratively);
by extension (concretely) food (literally or figuratively): - eating, food, meat.
Notice it is food, not clean or unclean flesh.
G4213
p?´s??
posis
pos'-is
From the alternate of G4095; a drinking (the act), that is, (concretely) a draught: - drink.
Drinking, can be alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages. Paul was dealing with ascetism
and the belief that doing without was somehow a show of character.
He dealt with this issue at Colossae also…
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility,
and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace,
and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure;
but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
The word for meat here is broma, from Thayer’s…
G1033
ß???µa
bro¯ma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111
Again, we are dealing with food.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby
thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
So, it is not dealing with clean and unclean, but with flesh (meat) and wine (drink)
that makes a weak brother stumble.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God.
Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith:
for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats.
The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.