The Gap vs. New Creationism Propaganda

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Gr8grace

Guest
#201
#201
eternally-gratefull said:
That was not my point, Many of the things which required the "gap" are answered by the flood theory.. Thus Gap is no longer required. We are then free to study, and find out, Should genesis 1 be taken literally. Or should it be strewn out over millions of years..
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I believe in the GAP. I believe Genesis 1 as literal 24 hr days. It was not strewn out over billions of years.

The GAP idea that I have studied has nothing to do with trying to explain what scientist's have said about fossil records,dino's or any of their data. It explains satans fall and Gods judgement of that fall. Maybe science is catching up to the bible and can "see" that it was billions or millions of years ago? We simple won't know that for sure.

The flood doesn't answer satan's fall. The GAP does though. I Honestly don't believe we can use the GAP idea to test science or even agree with science. We simple do not know the time frame. It could have been 1 year or a trillion years before God restored the earth.



 
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eph610

Guest
#202
#202
Gr8grace said:
I believe in the GAP. I believe Genesis 1 as literal 24 hr days. It was not strewn out over billions of years.

The GAP idea that I have studied has nothing to do with trying to explain what scientist's have said about fossil records,dino's or any of their data. It explains satans fall and Gods judgement of that fall. Maybe science is catching up to the bible and can "see" that it was billions or millions of years ago? We simple won't know that for sure.

The flood doesn't answer satan's fall. The GAP does though. I Honestly don't believe we can use the GAP idea to test science or even agree with science. We simple do not know the time frame. It could have been 1 year or a trillion years before God restored the earth.
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Where was Jesus at when this happened? You know, when Satan fell?
 
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eph610

Guest
#203
#203
Gr8grace said:
Well thanks for your all your help. I can answer like this too.

You need to fall off of the turnip truck and regurgitating turnip things. And start digging into the lie of YEC.

YEC is a false premise that totally denies Gods word, in order to "fight" evolution. And YEC forgets that God IS science. It is history~~HIS story. YEC hides the true reason we are here and what Gods purpose is for us as a lower creation.

The GAP exposes satan and his fall and all His "silly" arrogance and pride. He devised YEC to hide this truth.

Hows that work? Who won this debate?
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While I agree what I wrote might seem directed towards you, it was not. It was a direct statement, not meant to offend, hurt or enflame anyone....If your toddler was about to eat rat poison would you be slow and easy or harsh and direct...

I never espoused YEC either, I believe what the Bible says....and do not get carried away by timelines...
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#204
#204
Gr8grace said:
I believe in the GAP. I believe Genesis 1 as literal 24 hr days. It was not strewn out over billions of years.

The GAP idea that I have studied has nothing to do with trying to explain what scientist's have said about fossil records,dino's or any of their data. It explains satans fall and Gods judgement of that fall. Maybe science is catching up to the bible and can "see" that it was billions or millions of years ago? We simple won't know that for sure.

The flood doesn't answer satan's fall. The GAP does though. I Honestly don't believe we can use the GAP idea to test science or even agree with science. We simple do not know the time frame. It could have been 1 year or a trillion years before God restored the earth.
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Whatcha mean about God restored the earth are you referring to after the flood?
 
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eph610

Guest
#205
#205
Gr8grace said:
I believe in the GAP. I believe Genesis 1 as literal 24 hr days. It was not strewn out over billions of years.

The GAP idea that I have studied has nothing to do with trying to explain what scientist's have said about fossil records,dino's or any of their data. It explains satans fall and Gods judgement of that fall. Maybe science is catching up to the bible and can "see" that it was billions or millions of years ago? We simple won't know that for sure.

The flood doesn't answer satan's fall. The GAP does though. I Honestly don't believe we can use the GAP idea to test science or even agree with science. We simple do not know the time frame. It could have been 1 year or a trillion years before God restored the earth.
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Why does it Matter when God Created the earth? Is the Bible enough, or do we need to know?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#206
#206
Gr8grace said:
I believe in the GAP. I believe Genesis 1 as literal 24 hr days. It was not strewn out over billions of years.

The GAP idea that I have studied has nothing to do with trying to explain what scientist's have said about fossil records,dino's or any of their data. It explains satans fall and Gods judgement of that fall. Maybe science is catching up to the bible and can "see" that it was billions or millions of years ago? We simple won't know that for sure.

The flood doesn't answer satan's fall. The GAP does though. I Honestly don't believe we can use the GAP idea to test science or even agree with science. We simple do not know the time frame. It could have been 1 year or a trillion years before God restored the earth.
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I used to think that way, I can no longer do this.

The Gap has life on earth suffering pain, Sickness, and disease, and worse of all death, For no reason.. Death is a result of sin.. Adam is the first man to sin, Death is a result of Adam's sin, Not Satan's (Satan was a spiritual being not physical. thus physical beings should not suffer for his mistake,, A third of heaven was cast out, That was their punishment. ) There was no death while adam walked the earth, Only life.. and a paradise we can only fathom.. The ground was cursed (thus the curse of life which caused death of all every physical creature) was a direct result of Adam's sin.

You do not need gap to explain satan's fall.. It can easily be explained even with a young earth, we are not told how long adam or satan lived before both rebelled.. It could have been all within a century of our earth time.. Satan first, then Adam..

Anyway, that is why I will not deny GAP is true,, There is no proof, only circumstantial evidence.

I also will not condemn people for believing it.. I used to be an avid teacher of God and follower. and supporter, thus I would have to judge most of my chritian life (I just converted to YEC within the last ten years)

In the same token, Unlike DP here, we can not or should not judge YEC, because it has just as much circumstantial evidence as does GAP.. and neither can be outright proven..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#207
#207
BeyondET said:
Whatcha mean about God restored the earth are you referring to after the flood?
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I think after the flood, the earth drastically changed. Some life could not longer be sustained (large land creatures) thus they went extinct (no I do not buy the comet theory) Also. as we see, life expectancy grew shorter, no longer did men live for hundreds of years.. We also see sickness and disease and natural catastrophes increase..

of course, Jesus said this will keep gettngn worse, and in the last days, they will exponentially grow in number, severity and strength..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#208
#208
eph610 said:
Why does it Matter when God Created the earth? Is the Bible enough, or do we need to know?
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it must matter to some, or we would not be discussing it.. Not sure what you mean by this response..
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#209
#209
eph610 said:
Where was Jesus at when this happened? You know, when Satan fell?
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On His throne. The one satan was created to guard or cover.

Eze 28:14~~New American Standard Bible
"You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#210
#210
eternally-gratefull said:
I think after the flood, the earth drastically changed. Some life could not longer be sustained (large land creatures) thus they went extinct (no I do not buy the comet theory) Also. as we see, life expectancy grew shorter, no longer did men live for hundreds of years.. We also see sickness and disease and natural catastrophes increase..

of course, Jesus said this will keep gettngn worse, and in the last days, they will exponentially grow in number, severity and strength..
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Im hoping the OP I quoted knows that as well, though some people think the earth was formed Gen 1:1 then made void and formless later restored the earth, I'm not one who buys into that theory of restored earth :)
 
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eph610

Guest
#211
#211
Gr8grace said:
On His throne. The one satan was created to guard or cover.

Eze 28:14~~New American Standard Bible
"You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
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The throne of God and Jesus may not be the same one. Jesus himself said, he simply that he saw Satan fall from Heaven like lightening. So how does this fit with GAP or the creation story?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#212
#212
BeyondET said:
Im hoping the OP I quoted knows that as well, though some people think the earth was formed Gen 1:1 then made void and formless later restored the earth, I'm not one who buys into that theory of restored earth :)
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I like to think Gen 1: 1 was a statement, Gen 1: 2 was the beginning state of the earth in the very beginning of creation.

ie, God told us in Gen 1 what he did, Starting in verse 2, he shows us how he did the things he spoke of in verse 1.
 
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eph610

Guest
#213
#213
eternally-gratefull said:
it must matter to some, or we would not be discussing it.. Not sure what you mean by this response..
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I am trying to show that the Bible does not place any emphasis on WHEN God created the earth or how OLD it was, as some think and that is when false doctrine is usually inserted, when People decide that the Bible is not enough.

This is not a slam or attack on grace8, I am just trying to get people to think about how false doctrine gets inserted into the Body.

Simply put, if God wanted us to know how old the earth was and when he formed and made it, I would think he would have told us in his Word, but he did not. Any theory that inserts itself between or adds to the Word of God is false.

This does not negate the statement...In the beginning.....I take In the beginning as a fact, but I do not try to pontificate when it was, only that it was.
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#214
#214
eternally-gratefull said:
I like to think Gen 1: 1 was a statement, Gen 1: 2 was the beginning state of the earth in the very beginning of creation.

ie, God told us in Gen 1 what he did, Starting in verse 2, he shows us how he did the things he spoke of in verse 1.
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I get what your saying for sure, maybe Gr8grace will speak more about the restored earth he was meaning...
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#215
#215
eternally-gratefull said:
I used to think that way, I can no longer do this.
eternally-gratefull said:
The Gap has life on earth suffering pain, Sickness, and disease, and worse of all death, For no reason
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Not for mankind. Death for mankind didn't come about until Adam sinned.

eternally-gratefull said:
.. Death is a result of sin.. Adam is the first man to sin, Death is a result of Adam's sin, Not Satan's (Satan was a spiritual being not physical. thus physical beings should not suffer for his mistake
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Yes, death is a result of sin. And satan sinned first so the idea of death came into creation.

Really, the announcement to Adam that He will surely die if he eats from the tree of knowledge of good and evil....clues us in that satan had already brought in the idea of death and evil. Why would the perfect God include death in His plan for Adam and mankind? Because satan dragged it in.

God didn't have death and evil in His original plan. But satan introduced it at his fall. But mankind didn't experience it until Adam willingly disobeyed.
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#216
#216
eph610 said:
I am trying to show that the Bible does not place any emphasis on WHEN God created the earth or how OLD it was, as some think and that is when false doctrine is usually inserted, when People decide that the Bible is not enough.

This is not a slam or attack on grace8, I am just trying to get people to think about how false doctrine gets inserted into the Body.

Simply put, if God wanted us to know how old the earth was and when he formed and made it, I would think he would have told us in his Word, but he did not. Any theory that inserts itself between or adds to the Word of God is false.

This does not negate the statement...In the beginning.....I take In the beginning as a fact, but I do not try to pontificate when it was, only that it was.
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I get this, But to me this would go to both sides of the equation.. To GAPers as well as YECers..


Which is why I said it was odd..
 
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eph610

Guest
#217
#217
eternally-gratefull said:
I get this, But to me this would go to both sides of the equation.. To GAPers as well as YECers..


Which is why I said it was odd..
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I can see that for sure EG, and it is not intended to ruffle anyone...

Ther eare no creation facts and now evolution facts there are only Facts....

My Worldview is based on the Word and if the Bible is true, then what would we expect to see in nature that confirms that.

There is an evidence of a global world wide flood, we see that. The age and when don't entangle me...only that The Bible says it was created, formed and made and in 6 24 hour days...that is good enough for me..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#218
#218
Gr8grace said:
Not for mankind. Death for mankind didn't come about until Adam sinned.
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No life on earth died,, The first life which died was the animal God slew to cover the nakedness of Adam. And the groud was cursed. meaning things would smother the life out of the good seed, to kill it.. We see this today.. No flesh was eaten while ada was in the garden, The lion and the lamb would sleep together,

Scripture says when God restores the earth, this will happen again.. It will be as it was..



Yes, death is a result of sin. And satan sinned first so the idea of death came into creation.
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Yep. But satan is spiritual not physical.. So the spiritual world suffered because of satan's sin, Not the physical..

Really, the announcement to Adam that He will surely die if he eats from the tree of knowledge of good and evil....clues us in that satan had already brought in the idea of death and evil. Why would the perfect God include death in His plan for Adam and mankind? Because satan dragged it in.
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Actually the term literally means dying you will die.. God spoke to adam, I am sure he told adam all about satan.. So I am not sure of your point. Physical death of life on earth did not need to occur for Adam to know or understand what it meant..

God didn't have death and evil in His original plan. But satan introduced it at his fall. But mankind didn't experience it until Adam willingly disobeyed.
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Your forgetting about plant life and animal life

No reason they had to suffer and die because of satans fall. That is just conjecture, I would not want to base a doctrinal belief based on what might be..
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#219
#219
eph610 said:
I am trying to show that the Bible does not place any emphasis on WHEN God created the earth or how OLD it was, as some think and that is when false doctrine is usually inserted, when People decide that the Bible is not enough.

This is not a slam or attack on grace8, I am just trying to get people to think about how false doctrine gets inserted into the Body.

Simply put, if God wanted us to know how old the earth was and when he formed and made it, I would think he would have told us in his Word, but he did not. Any theory that inserts itself between or adds to the Word of God is false.

This does not negate the statement...In the beginning.....I take In the beginning as a fact, but I do not try to pontificate when it was, only that it was.
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I don't really care when He did it or how old it is. That really doesn't matter. He created it, no doubt. Evolution is bunk,no doubt.

The GAP just reveals satans fall and judgement. And satan doesn't want us to see this. Who really cares if it was one second or a billion years?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#220
#220
Gr8grace said:
I don't really care when He did it or how old it is. That really doesn't matter. He created it, no doubt. Evolution is bunk,no doubt.

The GAP just reveals satans fall and judgement. And satan doesn't want us to see this. Who really cares if it was one second or a billion years?
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I do not need the GAP to see this, That is my point, I see if fine apart from the GAP.. To try to limit that this is the only way we can see it is not being honest.. and is being closed minded.. "IMHO"

however I agree 100% with your first statement..
 
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