Romans 8:1-2, is conditional

[garee]

We are all born in love and have love in our hearts. As we grow we lock this loveaway and become more and more hard hearted and disfunctional.

Hi Peter, thanks for the reply

I understand that a little differently,

We are born spiritual separated from God who is love. As soon as we are born we in effect tell lies by the nature of our corrupted beings, as our separated nature from God, which God corrupted when man sinned.

Natural man cannot know the things of God’s love they are spiritually understood by and through a work of His Spirit which the bible calls a “work of faith” coming from our Faithful Creator. Natural man cannot seek after God. Therefore as we are informed in Romans; No man seeks after Him and therefore no man can understand. It is He who seeks after us and draws in respect to as many as the father has given Him.

We empathize with Christ because what he stands for is what we desperately need.But the problem with love is we have to take a real risk. We have to trust the other party, and something this fundamental, really trust.

We cannot empathize with Christ unless we born of His Spirit from above. Corrupted flesh gives birth to corrupted flesh which has the potential to love or hate but no power to forgive sin.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

But we have to open the door and take the risk, make the step of faith and ask and accept. This is opening up, the first step.

It is the work generated from God by which we can believe Him. He does the first work of giving us new life.It is not accredited to the old corrupted creation

Dependent on hearing His voice the first work of God .

We cannot open the door unless we have been converted. We can only love him if he first loves us by delivering us over from death to new spirit eternal life. Not will pass but have passed.

2Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The first thing was my fear of my father who I did not really know. It was knowinghow to relate to authority figures and empathise with decision making.

But the effect is very real.

Knowing how to relate to authority figures does not cause a person to be born from above.

The effects can be real but we walk by faith not through the natural experiences of this life. God’s word is the validator of His faith .

That exclusive faith is not of ourselves . If he has begun the good work of salvation in us ,he will finish it to the end.

If any man has not the Spirit of Christ they simply do not belong to Him.

It would seem from my understanding you are putting the horse before the cart?

 

[miknik5]

What have I been so far?

I can't even remember the many things you have suggested I must be...
I'll have to search that out so that I can bring it up for you...

Have you narrowed it down yet?

 

[PeterJens]

You think I'm shy?
Come out and say it sir...you offer many, many, many suggestions of others hoping that you will hit it on the head so that they will start their new session with you as their all knowing therapist?
LOL...
Okay...keep throwing it out there...at some point, you'll hit it on the head and say of yourself...boy, am I good!
Peter?
You're funny!

Ok friend, is the body of Christ some irrelevant object?

Are we not all channels of His love to each other, to encourage, to build up, to
help, to pray for, to bring insight?

You have as much to give me as I can give you. I am not teacher, merely a
disciple and follower. I am no therapist, just a follower of my Lord.

If I am funny, an object of mockery, then so is the Lord to you.
And I am not proving anything to myself.

I am learning to walk and respond, to reach out and find out how others defend
or share themselves. Do you not see how embattled you are, just by the
responses you are giving?

When I opened up my heart to Jesus, I opened up my heart to become a victim
of mockery, scorn, derission, and rejection. But that is what it is to be open,
loving, sharing, honest but it is also life and the opposite in reality.

I used to tremble at the idea, because I suppose I feared the type of response you
are supplying. But there is the joke. While one lives in the prison, you justify the
bars as keeping you safe while imprisoning yourself.

It is why Jesus asks us to open the door. We have to do this, to drop the defences
to begin to heal with the great healer, through forgiveness and the cross.

This partly defines the Kingdom of Heaven and gaining life in the Holy Spirit.
Does this sound alien to you I wonder?

 

[miknik5]

Ok friend, is the body of Christ some irrelevant object?

Are we not all channels of His love to each other, to encourage, to build up, to
help, to pray for, to bring insight?

You have as much to give me as I can give you. I am not teacher, merely a
disciple and follower. I am no therapist, just a follower of my Lord.

If I am funny, an object of mockery, then so is the Lord to you.
And I am not proving anything to myself.

I am learning to walk and respond, to reach out and find out how others defend
or share themselves. Do you not see how embattled you are, just by the
responses you are giving?

When I opened up my heart to Jesus, I opened up my heart to become a victim
of mockery, scorn, derission, and rejection. But that is what it is to be open,
loving, sharing, honest but it is also life and the opposite in reality.

I used to tremble at the idea, because I suppose I feared the type of response you
are supplying. But there is the joke. While one lives in the prison, you justify the
bars as keeping you safe while imprisoning yourself.

It is why Jesus asks us to open the door. We have to do this, to drop the defences
to begin to heal with the great healer, through forgiveness and the cross.

This partly defines the Kingdom of Heaven and gaining life in the Holy Spirit.
Does this sound alien to you I wonder?

Well then only allow to come out of your own mouth what is meant for building up sir.

I am not sure that your words to me were for building up but for tearing down, looking for some hit on the head discovery

So far, to YOU, I have been a recluse, no friends, socially awkward, prickly...and shy...

There were other things you said, I just can't remember them all...

 

[PeterJens]

Hi Peter, thanks for the reply
I understand that a little differently,

Let me turn things around a little. I testify to my life experience.
I then look in scripture for that which I have known and seen.

Jesus says simply the truths of the Kingdom can only be known through God revealing it.
So my understanding is a gift from God. Amen.

You are not an evangelist. The principle of evangelism is sharing the gospel and asking
people if they would like to ask Jesus in. Now I have seen this work in peoples lives.

The point of conversion is for intellectual debate, people come to Christ.
But so many here want theology rather than reality, knowing the limits of speculation
and what we actually need to do.

I love Jesus, I walk in forgiveness and know the cross in my life through the Holy Spirit.
Are you about to pull my life and experience apart because the words I use to describe
this do not match your descriptions?

It strikes me people have been in church and discussions way too long, and have lost
the plot of what it means to know God and walk in His ways.

 

[miknik5]

JESUS is the DOOR...HE asks us to open THE DOOR so that HE may come in and "eat" (fellowship) with us so that we will learn of HIM from HIM...and be led by HIS WORD/VOICE/SPIRIT...

I am not too sure if you have taken upon yourself this position as some how my teacher.

I don't want you for my teacher.

I have A TEACHER already...and I would much more prefer to hear HIM...


Okay?

You are to do all things that should be done as being done because of our LOVE for HIM and because we are to HONOR HIM with our lives...

 

[miknik5]

Let me turn things around a little. I testify to my life experience.
I then look in scripture for that which I have known and seen.

Jesus says simply the truths of the Kingdom can only be known through God revealing it.
So my understanding is a gift from God. Amen.

You are not an evangelist. The principle of evangelism is sharing the gospel and asking
people if they would like to ask Jesus in. Now I have seen this work in peoples lives.

The point of conversion is for intellectual debate, people come to Christ.
But so many here want theology rather than reality, knowing the limits of speculation
and what we actually need to do.

I love Jesus, I walk in forgiveness and know the cross in my life through the Holy Spirit.
Are you about to pull my life and experience apart because the words I use to describe
this do not match your descriptions?

It strikes me people have been in church and discussions way too long, and have lost
the plot of what it means to know God and walk in His ways.

And are you bothered that he understands things differently?
Are we supposed to follow YOUR EXPERIENCES as the guidelines to what is TRUTH?

No...
We are supposed to follow HIM by FAITH, sir...in all things...in all experiences...in seasons of sun and in seasons of rain...and we are to TRUST in HIM with all our heart...and lean NOT on our own understanding because at times...we won't even be able to understand where our feet are taking us

 

[miknik5]

Have faith to yourself...blessed the man who does NOT condemn himself in what he does...

Why are you annoyed that one does NOT have the same understanding as you...
And why do you feel that you have to "push" your experiences as validation of who you are in CHRIST JESUS?

Follow HIM
Keep your eyes on HIM
and stop looking at your brothers and sisters asking them to give to YOU an account of who they are in CHRIST JESUS.

If they are IN CHRIST JESUS...they are IN CHRIST JESUS and HE will shepherd HIS SHEEP as HE pleases...

No one needs to lay out their lives to you, sir...

What is it you need?

I am sorry for being angry with you...but your thinking that you can imply of others what your own imaginings are as truth, is wrong.
You have no right to even claim that you know another...for no man knows the spirit of another man save that man AND GOD...and it was sufficient that we are NOT to judge anything before the time...to leave all judgment to HIM who will lay bare all the hidden agendas of the hearts and the minds of all men.

And then will man receive his praise from the ONE whom he desires to serve...

Okay?

 

[PeterJens]

Well then only allow to come out of your own mouth what is meant for building up sir.

I am not sure that your words to me were for building up but for tearing down, looking for some hit on the head discovery

So far, to YOU, I have been a recluse, no friends, socially awkward, prickly...and shy...

There were other things you said, I just can't remember them all...

Thanks for the instruction.
Trouble is we are called to share as the Lord leads and not just about
building people up. Or have you not noticed this from scripture.

By the way, you have not denied any observations I have made.
I am trying my friend to encourage you. But knowing the truth about
where you are is the first step towards choosing to go somewhere else,
unless you are actually happy.

But this is one word you have not used, happy. I am happy in the Lord,
where I am and am changing and growing, in His love and understanding.

So I encourage you to do likewise.

 

[miknik5]

And now, I believe I should leave you alone because I do have a personal bone to pick with you because you have implied things of me that are not true and I don't like it that you somehow think you are the website therapist...


I am sorry, Peter Jens...but if one desires to only speak the TRUTH and to refer only to HIS WORD, how do you call them some sort of recluse, unfeeling, strange person?


I am here on a website, discussing GOD and HIS WORD and it will be the ONLY THING that I will discuss.

 

[miknik5]

Thanks for the instruction.
Trouble is we are called to share as the Lord leads and not just about
building people up. Or have you not noticed this from scripture.

By the way, you have not denied any observations I have made.
I am trying my friend to encourage you. But knowing the truth about
where you are is the first step towards choosing to go somewhere else,
unless you are actually happy.

But this is one word you have not used, happy. I am happy in the Lord,
where I am and am changing and growing, in His love and understanding.

So I encourage you to do likewise.

And you sir were also told to mourn with those who are mourning, weren't you?
Or did you forget that there are some who are?


That also is part of Romans correct?

 

[PeterJens]

And are you bothered that he understands things differently?
Are we supposed to follow YOUR EXPERIENCES as the guidelines to what is TRUTH?

No...
We are supposed to follow HIM by FAITH, sir...in all things...in all experiences...in seasons of sun and in seasons of rain...and we are to TRUST in HIM with all our heart...and lean NOT on our own understanding because at times...we won't even be able to understand where our feet are taking us

Sounds like you are rebuking me. But the actual content is non-existant.
Now I am being told I have spiritually got things wrong. A serious accusation.
Some go as far as saying I do not know the Lord.

So I know the realm you guys are coming from, not a good place.
And it is only people of the HG group who do this, like a virus has taken over your
souls with super condemnation against people who you feel have the wrong "feel"

But this is the point, you do not know what you are talking about, merely a feeling.
This is not even scriptural, it is pure mysticism.

So all this rebuking and denegration comes from your leading. Now that is probably
the biggest joke, based on the theology you follow.

 

[miknik5]

Sounds like you are rebuking me. But the actual content is non-existant.
Now I am being told I have spiritually got things wrong. A serious accusation.
Some go as far as saying I do not know the Lord.

So I know the realm you guys are coming from, not a good place.
And it is only people of the HG group who do this, like a virus has taken over your
souls with super condemnation against people who you feel have the wrong "feel"

But this is the point, you do not know what you are talking about, merely a feeling.
This is not even scriptural, it is pure mysticism.

So all this rebuking and denegration comes from your leading. Now that is probably
the biggest joke, based on the theology you follow.

What is HG?
Hyper, hyper, great, awesome, unfathomable GRACE?

Is that what it is?

And what does GRACE translate to exactly?

CHRIST?
The GIFT of GOD?
UNMERITED UNEARNED FAVOR?


Okay...

I'll go with that.

Definitely GRACE.
And that is all that will be exalted on that day...


THE CAPSTONE
To shouts of GRACE, GRACE, (most unfathomable, excellent - my emphasis) GRACE to HIM/THE CAPSTONE!

 

[miknik5]

What did you think would be exalted?

US?

For what reason would we be exalted before the THRONE of GOD'S GRACE?

We will...but only because of HIM and our faithfulness to HIM in all things...

THAT will be exalted...

Not these things that we have done, these "good" things looking for HIS APPROVAL...but that we have done these "good" things because of our LOVE FOR HIM and the UNBELIEVABLE LONG-SUFFERING PATIENCE and MERCY of GOD upon us...

All for HIS GLORY and HIS GLORY alone!

 

[miknik5]

Thanks for the instruction.
Trouble is we are called to share as the Lord leads and not just about
building people up. Or have you not noticed this from scripture.

By the way, you have not denied any observations I have made.
I am trying my friend to encourage you. But knowing the truth about
where you are is the first step towards choosing to go somewhere else,
unless you are actually happy.

But this is one word you have not used, happy. I am happy in the Lord,
where I am and am changing and growing, in His love and understanding.

So I encourage you to do likewise.

So what you are saying is that the LORD has told you these things about me and has instructed you to discipline me.

Correct?

 

[PeterJens]

And now, I believe I should leave you alone because I do have a personal bone to pick with you because you have implied things of me that are not true and I don't like it that you somehow think you are the website therapist...

I am sorry, Peter Jens...but if one desires to only speak the TRUTH and to refer only to HIS WORD, how do you call them some sort of recluse, unfeeling, strange person?

I am here on a website, discussing GOD and HIS WORD and it will be the ONLY THING that I will discuss.

And you are now telling me how I think about myself. Thankyou for that, though it is not
true. No surprise there then/

But really what I am saying, is if you claim to have authority, I am showing you what I
respect and why.

Sorry you do not meet up to what is obviously a biblical standard of openness, yet claim
the right to put me in my place as regards the Lord. But this is my biblical point, though
you obviously deny it. Ironic that for someone claiming to only want to talk about
scripture.

 

[miknik5]

And you are now telling me how I think about myself. Thankyou for that, though it is not
true. No surprise there then/

But really what I am saying, is if you claim to have authority, I am showing you what I
respect and why.

Sorry you do not meet up to what is obviously a biblical standard of openness, yet claim
the right to put me in my place as regards the Lord. But this is my biblical point, though
you obviously deny it. Ironic that for someone claiming to only want to talk about
scripture.

What?
What exactly are you twisting to say?
I am NOT telling you how you think about yourself...I am telling you what I have witnessed by your imperfect words about me claiming to think that you "know me" by throwing out many suggestions of who you THINK I must be.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What?
What exactly are you twisting to say?

I think that about nails it.. Welcome to conversations with PJ!

 

[miknik5]

Go take a chill pill, Peter Jens....and get over yourself...
come back and let's talk about JESUS and HIM alone.
I thought that was what everyone here wanted to do.

It appears that many want to look and look at the other one while they SAY they want to talk about THE LORD.

Let's talk about WHAT IS GOOD...and keep our eyes on WHAT IS GOOD...

 

[PeterJens]

So what you are saying is that the LORD has told you these things about me and has instructed you to discipline me.

Correct?

Boy, this is fighting talk. Is this how you are when riled up?
To be honest I have no clue the kind of language you use, self, flesh,
me etc. It is a whole frame of reference I do not use, though the HG
crowd use it a lot, and you obviously are tuned into this.

Sharing is sharing. It is not filtered or with obvious intention, it is about who
someone is and what strikes them. So you decide to rebuke me, and tell me
I am speaking in the flesh, and my relationship with God is all wrong.

Just pointing out that is heavy stuff, but I generally look by this, because if I
did not, I would say you do not know the Lord. And I do not do that unless I
understand where someone is.

You said if we met face to face you would not be able to speak well.
Did I miss-understand you? I do not want to push your buttons so to speak,
but you are full on, you know, and I generally give back in the same way.

This is what they call two personalities meeting, lol.