The Police Gun Issue

[Miri]

I think the cultural differences are hard for us Brits to appreciate.

We do not have armed police walking the streets (although we do have special
armed police who can be called upon when the need arises). Nor do we have
many criminals with guns. So guns are just not seen in the Uk. (Although some
criminals do manage to get hold of guns but again this is rare).

I've never seen a real gun or even a good fake gun in my entire life. I've walked
through dodgy estates in the dark and it has never crossed my mind for one second
that someone walking by might have a gun. I've seen police chases and police
stopping cars, but again it never occurs to me that someone may have a gun.

Most police over here, while cautious and may expect a knife, would not really expect
a criminal to have a gun.

So for us Brits when we hear of these seemingly daily shootings in the US, it's a big
shock and hard not to compare how police over here do things.

I suppose though that if there was a high chance criminals were armed, then our
police would act differently as well.

I'm just glad we don't live in a country where guns are the norm.

A friend went to New York a few years ago and they said they were so shocked to see
the police openly carrying guns, they thought it was just something seen in the
movies and it just didn't sink into her brain that this was actually part of American life.


Ceilede, your were rather harsh to amazing grace. You have to make allowances
for people from different cultures on here. The flags are the give away.

If you actually knew amazing grace then you would not be using the term "you people"
in such a distainful way" you would have known it was a genuine comment and question
from a genuine person. When you get to know her better you will probably feel
embarrassed later.

 

[Willie-T]

I think the cultural differences are hard for us Brits to appreciate.

We do not have armed police walking the streets (although we do have special
armed police who can be called upon when the need arises). Nor do we have
many criminals with guns. So guns are just not seen in the Uk. (Although some
criminals do manage to get hold of guns but again this is rare).

I've never seen a real gun or even a good fake gun in my entire life. I've walked
through dodgy estates in the dark and it has never crossed my mind for one second
that someone walking by might have a gun. I've seen police chases and police
stopping cars, but again it never occurs to me that someone may have a gun.

Most police over here, while cautious and may expect a knife, would not really expect
a criminal to have a gun.

So for us Brits when we hear of these seemingly daily shootings in the US, it's a big
shock and hard not to compare how police over here do things.

I suppose though that if there was a high chance criminals were armed, then our
police would act differently as well.

I'm just glad we don't live in a country where guns are the norm.

A friend went to New York a few years ago and they said they were so shocked to see
the police openly carrying guns, they thought it was just something seen in the
movies and it just didn't sink into her brain that this was actually part of American life.


Ceilede, your were rather harsh to amazing grace. You have to make allowances
for people from different cultures on here. The flags are the give away.

If you actually knew amazing grace then you would not be using the term "you people"
in such a distainful way" you would have known it was a genuine comment and question
from a genuine person. When you get to know her better you will probably feel
embarrassed later.

I got my first real rifle at 8... (a .22) had undergone full Military Weapons and self defense training by my 10th birthday, and was a crack shot with a pistol by then. If fact, I got kicked out of a YMCA Camp shooting class because I was too good. (It was only for beginners.) Most American kids I knew have always had a set of cap pistols and bb guns (rifles) since they were big enough to hold them. No, we would not understand unarmed police, at all.

 

[Amazing-Grace]

[video=youtube;yfi3Ndh3n-g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfi3Ndh3n-g[/video]

Thanks for posting this Willie.

I know it;s difficult to judge on the spot...Scenario 1, well the guy was obviously reaching for something but on the hood of the car? I'd have been shot also. Scenario 2 the guy wasn't armed so why shoot? 3 was also dubious to shoot but yeah with an adrenaline rush it's tough making that decision.

I guess in my OP I was affected by the real life footage, it just seemed pointless and incidents such as these seem to be on the news a lot recently.

 

[Miri]

I got my first real rifle at 8... (a .22) had undergone full Military Weapons and self defense training by my 10th birthday, and was a crack shot with a pistol by then. If fact, I got kicked out of a YMCA Camp shooting class because I was too good. (It was only for beginners.) Most American kids I knew have always had a set of cap pistols and bb guns (rifles) since they were big enough to hold them. No, we would not understand unarmed police, at all.

Thats another thing we Brits would find hard to understand, giving a child a gun! Lol
You can't sell alcohol to people under 18.
You have to be 17 to hold a full driving licence in the UK (16 if mobility issues).

So the concept of giving a young person something more potentially like a gun,
we would think, what are you nuts.


I know know that in the farming community, holding a gun licence is more common
and some young people are taught about guns also in that setting, but they have to
to be of a certain age. Again this is so rare, that you could go your whole life in a
rural community and never come across a person with a gun licence.


I was actually shot in the leg by an air pellet when I was 17 but I have no idea how
it happened. I developed a large infected boil on the side of my leg and went
to the doctors every other day for it to be dressed and cleaned. Antibiotics didn't seem to
be helping despite trying different types.

Was rather funny actually this doctor, nice man but getting on a bit - typical family doctor
back then, he was past retirement but he didn't want to retire. On three occasions
he asked me to remove my tights. I had to keep telling him I didn't have any on it was
my natural colour!

Anyway, one day he was sneezing the gunk out (really hurt) and this piece of metal
popped out. It was a squashed up air pellet! I had no idea where it had come from
or when. He said it's possible to get hit and the skin bounce back over the wound.

As as far as I knew it started out as an irritating scratch or scrape. But it would
never have occurred to me that I might have been hit by a stray pellet.



https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q325.htm


Air weapon

• A young person below the age of 14 cannot possess an air weapon or ammunition at any time except to shoot an air weapon on private premises with the consent of the owner (as long as it does not go over the boundary), providing that they are supervised by someone who is over 21.
• A person aged 14 –17 may borrow an air gun from a person aged 18 or over and use it on private property without supervision.
• A person aged 14 to 17 may only carry an air gun in a public place if under the supervision of someone aged 21 or over and there is a good reason for doing so.
• Anyone under the age of 18 may borrow and use an air gun for target practice as a member of an approved club, or at a shooting gallery for air guns or miniature rifles.
• An adult over the age of 18 can also shoot an air rifle on private premises, shooting club or gallery and does not have to be supervised.
• It is an offence for a person under the age of 18 to purchase or hire an air weapon or ammunition or for someone to make them a gift of an air weapon or ammunition.

Shotgun

• There are currently no lower age limits for an applicant wishing to apply for a shotgun certificate. A person under the age of 14 years may not be granted a firearm certificate in any circumstances.
• A person under 15 years old may not have with him assembled shotgun except while under the supervision of a person of or over the age of 21, or while the shot gun is so covered with a securely fastened gun cover that it cannot be fired.
• A person under the age of 18 may not purchase a firearm or ammunition.

 

[p_rehbein]

One idea for Ownership of Firearms Restrictions would be that all peoples who desire to purchase and own a firearm be required to take a course that teaches ONE BASIC THING!

If the Police approach you, do not, DO NOT pull out your firearm and point it at them! Even if your firearm is a BB GUN, Water Pistol, Toy Cap Gun, do not pull it out and point it at a Police Officer.

Seriously, why is this such a difficult lesson to learn?

 

[hornetguy]

Thats another thing we Brits would find hard to understand, giving a child a gun! Lol
You can't sell alcohol to people under 18.
You have to be 17 to hold a full driving licence in the UK (16 if mobility issues).

So the concept of giving a young person something more potentially like a gun,
we would think, what are you nuts.


I know know that in the farming community, holding a gun licence is more common
and some young people are taught about guns also in that setting, but they have to
to be of a certain age. Again this is so rare, that you could go your whole life in a
rural community and never come across a person with a gun licence.


I was actually shot in the leg by an air pellet when I was 17 but I have no idea how
it happened. I developed a large infected boil on the side of my leg and went
to the doctors every other day for it to be dressed and cleaned. Antibiotics didn't seem to
be helping despite trying different types.

Was rather funny actually this doctor, nice man but getting on a bit - typical family doctor
back then, he was past retirement but he didn't want to retire. On three occasions
he asked me to remove my tights. I had to keep telling him I didn't have any on it was
my natural colour!

Anyway, one day he was sneezing the gunk out (really hurt) and this piece of metal
popped out. It was a squashed up air pellet! I had no idea where it had come from
or when. He said it's possible to get hit and the skin bounce back over the wound.

As as far as I knew it started out as an irritating scratch or scrape. But it would
never have occurred to me that I might have been hit by a stray pellet.



https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q325.htm


Air weapon

• A young person below the age of 14 cannot possess an air weapon or ammunition at any time except to shoot an air weapon on private premises with the consent of the owner (as long as it does not go over the boundary), providing that they are supervised by someone who is over 21.
• A person aged 14 –17 may borrow an air gun from a person aged 18 or over and use it on private property without supervision.
• A person aged 14 to 17 may only carry an air gun in a public place if under the supervision of someone aged 21 or over and there is a good reason for doing so.
• Anyone under the age of 18 may borrow and use an air gun for target practice as a member of an approved club, or at a shooting gallery for air guns or miniature rifles.
• An adult over the age of 18 can also shoot an air rifle on private premises, shooting club or gallery and does not have to be supervised.
• It is an offence for a person under the age of 18 to purchase or hire an air weapon or ammunition or for someone to make them a gift of an air weapon or ammunition.

Shotgun

• There are currently no lower age limits for an applicant wishing to apply for a shotgun certificate. A person under the age of 14 years may not be granted a firearm certificate in any circumstances.
• A person under 15 years old may not have with him assembled shotgun except while under the supervision of a person of or over the age of 21, or while the shot gun is so covered with a securely fastened gun cover that it cannot be fired.
• A person under the age of 18 may not purchase a firearm or ammunition.

While I loved the time I spent in the UK, these laws are another reason I would not voluntarily move there. I covet our freedoms too much.

As much as I love to own, shoot, tinker with guns, if someone waved a magic wand and all guns were gone, it wouldn't be the end of the world for me... But, until that magic wand comes along, I'd rather keep my rights to own and bear arms.

And if a gun-grabbing president somehow banned private firearms ownership, I don't think it would be the end of the world, either... at least for me, at my age. I would be more concerned for my children and grandchildren, and the world/society they would be forced to live in.

Some lessons learned, like the ones our founding fathers had learned, apparently must be RE-learned, and the painful process gone through again...

 

[Willie-T]

Even my own preacher preaches from the pulpit that people, Black or White, should not have to comply with the police (one of several reasons my future in that congregation is uncertain) While I, on the other hand, say that COMPLIANCE is paramount. I believe 95% of these dead Black men would still be alive today if it was not for their foolish, stubborn pride and vanity, forcing them into a position of defiance and non-compliance.

Anticipating what is coming next: "Yes," I am saying that many of their deaths were their own fault. If you touch a bare electric wire that you know has the ready potential to kill you, don't try to say it was the wire's fault you died.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Quite frankly no one here has the authority to judge what happened. What anyone says here is purely based on untrained opinions. In other words, while the media exploits such situations it's really no ones business to even decide what's right or wrong.

 

[popeye]

So another guy has been shot by police in the US - his colour to me is irrelevant, what is relevant is this; why did they shoot this man at point blank range when his wife begged them not to and reassured them that he was harmless to them. More important even than this; if they really did believe he was armed was it necessary to shoot more than once? Wouldn't once have rendered the victim helpless? Wasn't this enough? I heard 3 or 4 shots - hard to tell with the echo but 3 at least - why? They wonder why there is outrage and protests - sheesh....

In a nano second,you act on instinct.

Time for black leadership. Like a president that is NOT anti police and encouraging black rebellion and riots.

Oh,and an AMERICAN president that represents ALL RACES,not black victimhood and evil caucasians.

We have "the victim president" leading us,no wonder he apologises for AMERICA

 

[Amazing-Grace]

While I loved the time I spent in the UK, these laws are another reason I would not voluntarily move there. I covet our freedoms too much.

As much as I love to own, shoot, tinker with guns, if someone waved a magic wand and all guns were gone, it wouldn't be the end of the world for me... But, until that magic wand comes along, I'd rather keep my rights to own and bear arms.

And if a gun-grabbing president somehow banned private firearms ownership, I don't think it would be the end of the world, either... at least for me, at my age. I would be more concerned for my children and grandchildren, and the world/society they would be forced to live in.

Some lessons learned, like the ones our founding fathers had learned, apparently must be RE-learned, and the painful process gone through again...

For those very same reasons I could never live in the US. I used to think our cultures were very similar....that was until I visited - don't get me wrong I enjoyed my time over there in 2 completely different areas but living there with that gun culture going on is not for me.

 

[Willie-T]

Have any of you really looked at that video? The one where he was shot? I mean really looked at it?

If your answer is "Yes" I hope you will be able to tell me where his right hand was the instant he exited the SUV, and if there was anything in that clearly exposed hand.

And, why can't that specific moment of video be captured and enlarged?

 

[kaylagrl]

So another guy has been shot by police in the US - his colour to me is irrelevant, what is relevant is this; why did they shoot this man at point blank range when his wife begged them not to and reassured them that he was harmless to them. More important even than this; if they really did believe he was armed was it necessary to shoot more than once? Wouldn't once have rendered the victim helpless? Wasn't this enough? I heard 3 or 4 shots - hard to tell with the echo but 3 at least - why? They wonder why there is outrage and protests - sheesh....

When police draw their gun they fire I believe it is three times. That is what they are taught to do. And we need to wait untill all evidence comes out before we try this in the court of public opinion. Hands up dont shoot was found to be untrue. So lets wait till all the facts come out.

 

[Church2u2]

Even my own preacher preaches from the pulpit that people, Black or White, should not have to comply with the police (one of several reasons my future in that congregation is uncertain) While I, on the other hand, say that COMPLIANCE is paramount. I believe 95% of these dead Black men would still be alive today if it was not for their foolish, stubborn pride and vanity, forcing them into a position of defiance and non-compliance.

Anticipating what is coming next: "Yes," I am saying that many of their deaths were their own fault. If you touch a bare electric wire that you know has the ready potential to kill you, don't try to say it was the wire's fault you died.

Hi Willie T. You did make a good point. And I won't slam you for it. What I wonder is why the guy in New Orleans was shot when the video footage didn't show him being arrogant or resisting.That's what bugged me .It just seemed like he was murdered.

 

[Willie-T]

Hi Willie T. You did make a good point. And I won't slam you for it. What I wonder is why the guy in New Orleans was shot when the video footage didn't show him being arrogant or resisting.That's what bugged me .It just seemed like he was murdered.

I don't think I've ever even seen that video.

 

[Tommy379]

For those very same reasons I could never live in the US. I used to think our cultures were very similar....that was until I visited - don't get me wrong I enjoyed my time over there in 2 completely different areas but living there with that gun culture going on is not for me.

I'm glad you brought up America's gun culture because it was founded by the United Kingdom on April 19, 1775.

 

[Chester]

Oh OK then I consider myself reprimanded!

Wow! A frank admission - how nice and refreshing and real - Thank you for showing all of us how to do it!

 

[Willie-T]

Hi Willie T. You did make a good point. And I won't slam you for it. What I wonder is why the guy in New Orleans was shot when the video footage didn't show him being arrogant or resisting.That's what bugged me .It just seemed like he was murdered.

I don't think I've ever even seen that video.

I just watched it. I thought I saw an officer walk up and twist a pistol out of his still-moving hand after the cop rolling around on the ground had shot him?

 

[Amazing-Grace]

I'm glad you brought up America's gun culture because it was founded by the United Kingdom on April 19, 1775.

Well yes exactly 1775 - ancient history.

 

[Amazing-Grace]

Ugh! I do think this thread is getting all out of hand now. Can we just call a truce? Or hold fire?

 

[Tommy379]

I just watched it. I thought I saw an officer walk up and twist a pistol out of his still-moving hand after the cop rolling around on the ground had shot him?

You did see an officer take a gun from the bad guy's hand. Remember the officers were called there because the suspect had just pointed the gun at another person.