Can a Gay person be a True Christian?

[eph610]

"The truth" is GOD. Are you saying that God holds grace accountable and responsible? And I think Gr8 meant "lordship" not "loadship".

the truth is Jesus Christ and he makes grace accountable and responsible...

John 1.17:
For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.


I know he meant lordship, but thought I would point out the misspelling, because it was obvious his emotions were typing not his mind...

 

[blue_ladybug]

I think in that verse, that "realized" means "put into action" by Jesus. In other words, he initiated grace.. HE IS grace. Maybe it's just me, but if grace is responsible for our salvation and what we do, not a single soul would get saved. Because we all sin and make mistakes, but God's grace (forgiveness) has already covered our sins. Grace can't be taken away or revoked, nor can it be lost. And neither can salvation. All that's needed for salvation is faith, belief, and confession that Jesus is Lord and Savior. jmo

 

[PaulMack]

John 8:2-11
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. [SUP]3 [/SUP]The scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, [SUP]4 [/SUP]they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” [SUP]6 [/SUP]They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. [SUP]9 [/SUP]When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” [SUP]11 [/SUP]She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”

Why do we demand a person has to completely give up sins before they can be a Christian? Here was a sinner. Did Jesus tell her she needed to completely change her life from Adultery??? NO!!!!!!!!

Jesus said "Sin no more!". This is all Jesus Said. So why are there those who are putting burdens on Gay People??????

We need to say to them,"Sin no more and follow Jesus!". Not change your lifestyle first!

 

[CS1]

John 8:2-11
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. [SUP]3 [/SUP]The scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, [SUP]4 [/SUP]they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” [SUP]6 [/SUP]They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. [SUP]9 [/SUP]When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” [SUP]11 [/SUP]She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”

Why do we demand a person has to completely give up sins before they can be a Christian? Here was a sinner. Did Jesus tell her she needed to completely change her life from Adultery??? NO!!!!!!!!

Jesus said "Sin no more!". This is all Jesus Said. So why are there those who are putting burdens on Gay People??????

We need to say to them,"Sin no more and follow Jesus!". Not change your lifestyle first!

Amen but if one is not to "sin no more" then they would not be gay person . they would be a person who Christ has saved and told don't do it no more as HE does for all HE calls

 

[Gr8grace]

Grace is free alright and the truth makes grace accountable and responsible....

This is loadship salvation. Grace is free alright, then in your next breath it isn't. its subtle, buts its there.

Grace is free alright, and the truth makes ME accountable and responsible. Not Grace.Grace is accountable for my salvation and my Growth in His knowledge.

I am saved by Grace,PERIOD. but the truth tells me I had better live the Christian way of life or there is discipline,misery and loss of eternal rewards if I don't. But my salvation is secure in Christ.

What do you think is happening to Ken? Discipline from the Lord. But very few can see it, all they see is an either or for His salvation or not.


We are seeing a fruit of his salvation. You didn't see it? Most that are so focused on morality, that they overlook spiritual fruit. He wouldn't be in turmoil if he wasn't being disciplined by the Lord........fruit. Evidence of His salvation.

Wake up from morality, and start seeing some spiritual things.

 

[eph610]

I think in that verse, that "realized" means "put into action" by Jesus. In other words, he initiated grace.. HE IS grace. Maybe it's just me, but if grace is responsible for our salvation and what we do, not a single soul would get saved. Because we all sin and make mistakes, but God's grace (forgiveness) has already covered our sins. Grace can't be taken away or revoked, nor can it be lost. And neither can salvation. All that's needed for salvation is faith, belief, and confession that Jesus is Lord and Savior. jmo

Grace is much more than simply unmerited favor for salvation that we do not earn that unmerited favor alone provides, nor is it revoked or earned....when people come into that revelation knowledge is where the rubber then meets the road...and they GO

Peter talked about the manifold grace of God....

Once again, you all are talking salvation and I am not nor have I been in any post on this topic...I am talking a deeper relationship with Jesus after he saves you...and that it is not works to keep saved either.

Salvation is never earned through good works, nor is it kept by good works. Jesus alone provided salvation for us, we could never be righteous enough to earn it. JESUS+NOTHING=EVERYTHING....that is salvation period.

Past salvation we are exhorted to grow spiritually....at this point, grace becomes a power to do in our spirit what we can never do in our flesh....Hence why the Bible says we should come boldly to the throne of grace to receive mercy and find grace to help us when we need it...That verse is not talking about unmerited favor towards salvation...it is talking about spiritual growth.....understanding this truth comes from understanding that Salvation comes from Jesus alone and that once we are saved we are also made righteous again. Righteousness is position not performance, once we understand these things, we can then move on to maturity and be partakers of the divine nature....

Grace/unmerited favor for salvation is just the beginning...EPh 2.8-9 is what peeps like grace8 throw out adn they and you are entirely correct...[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; [SUP]9 [/SUP]not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

But lets also remember verse 10, that is the result of being saved....
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. At verse 10 grace turns into much more than simply unmerited favor.....

its probably clear as mud...so sorry....

 

[Utah]

Thank you for your clarity I have one question for you please :

what is the difference of " gay People" and Christian people ?
thank you for your answering in advance

The difference? Not sure that's a question I can answer. It's like asking the difference between broccoli and a corvette. Theres no comparison. I will say this however, I am of the belief, with biblical support, that having faith in Jesus, real loving, yearning, thankful, grateful heartfelt faith, overrides all things in life. It doesn't matter who or what has such faith -- man, woman, White, Black, straight, gay etc. Faith in Jesus is the alpha and omega of our lives, and everything in between is moot. That's the power of the saving grace of Jesus. Therefore, I proclaim that gay people can, and are, indeed true Christians.

 

[Utah]

She meant don't use your ban hammer on her. That's what we call it.. lol.. But a sword, that hurts worse than a hammer.. lol jk

Also, I'm pretty sure that Utah meant that gay people who are NOT christians can be used by God. Like, if they have turned from that lifestyle and offer their testimonies to others.

No my sister. I did in fact mean that I know gay people who love the Lord, and they are in the trenches sharing the Gospel and bringing people to Christ. Their faith overrides their sexual preferences or sins.

 

[eph610]

This is loadship salvation. Grace is free alright, then in your next breath it isn't. its subtle, buts its there.

Grace is free alright, and the truth makes ME accountable and responsible. Not Grace.Grace is accountable for my salvation and my Growth in His knowledge.

I am saved by Grace,PERIOD. but the truth tells me I had better live the Christian way of life or there is discipline,misery and loss of eternal rewards if I don't. But my salvation is secure in Christ.

What do you think is happening to Ken? Discipline from the Lord. But very few can see it, all they see is an either or for His salvation or not.


We are seeing a fruit of his salvation. You didn't see it? Most that are so focused on morality, that they overlook spiritual fruit. He wouldn't be in turmoil if he wasn't being disciplined by the Lord........fruit. Evidence of His salvation.

Wake up from morality, and start seeing some spiritual things.

I loved this part when you said............... ME

YOU do nothing in yourself....only the Spirit in you does the work...So out of one side of your mouth you speak grace and out of the other you speak condemnation....how can you keep a straight face and talk about freedom and grace and in the same breathe say God is disciplining the brother?

God does not discipline his children with the agony Ken has claimed.....

Your religion is all messed up man...stop speaking before you hurt the brother even more...

 

[Magenta]

Am I any more saved or any less a sinner because I am heterosexual and not homosexual?

 

[eph610]

Why do we demand a person has to completely give up sins before they can be a Christian? Here was a sinner. Did Jesus tell her she needed to completely change her life from Adultery??? NO!!!!!!!!

I never stated this once, I am stating that at some point AFTER salvation, there needs to be an evidence that people's flesh and minds are starting to align with their reconnected Spirit...

I did not want to go here but I will. About 2 years ago we attempted to minister salvation to a very hard hearted young Lesbian about 24 years of age.

At the altar call she came up to me and smiled and said, you know what Pastor, Jesus, the Holy Ghost and the grace of God have saved me and they both know its OK for me not to change what I love and what I prefer. At the core of my life is this....I LOVE and I PREFER HAVING SEX WITH WOMEN! it has nothing to do with relationship or love for me. It is all about what I love and what I prefer. Thankfully Pastor Jesus gets it as well and will not condemn me because there is now no condemnation because I am in him.....

I let her alone and did not attempt to correct her or anything....she walked away confident that grace had saved her...abut a year later we saw her again and this time it was different, she had been beaten several times for having affairs with other lesbians partners, her female lover kicked her out, took all her stuff and money...one beating was so bad she will now not be able to have children...she came up and asked me why God's grace was not upon her and why as a christian she was facing all this....[somebody on this thread would attempt to brain wash people into thinking this girl was saved, but God was just disciplining her...]

My wife and I gently reminded her what she said to us a year ago and with tears in her eyes she said....I need Jesus Pastor and I want in my life what JESUS LOVES & PREFERS, not what I LOVE and I PREFER



Someone will say we were being moral and not spiritual with this girl....someone will say GRACE was covering her.....someone will say Lordship salvation is not needed but the WORD will say....

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.


Its been another year and this girl stepped out of homosexuality after about 60 days after she let Jesus become LORD of her life that night....The last time she had homosexual sex was about 6 days before the night she came home...she is still celibate and is working on forgiving men that sexually abused her as a little girl, the man that sex-trafficked her, and the woman who introduced her to the homosexual lifestyle she chose to engage in because of radical hurt and trauma of what men had done to her....

Some of you all need to get out of 1/8" of water and get deep...the world is waiting for you to start swimming...

 

[PennEd]

For the last year or so God has put a HUGH burden on me for living the Gay lifestyle with my Lover. I felt we both needed to start attending Church and stop sinning. Long story short we parted ways and i moved out of the State to be away from that lifestyle.

Did i make the right choice? Maybe, not really sure. I was happy then. I felt loved. I thought if i did this my life would be better, i would maybe feel better about myself. Do not ask me why i did this because even i do not totally understand why God wants me to be so sad, to be so lonely. I gave up this one thing for Him. Its not fair.......

I think you've got this all mixed up brother. God doesn't want you committing homosexual acts OR to feel depressed, unhappy, and lonely.

The enemy left you somewhat alone while you were in that relationship, with a phoney happiness, as the Holy Spirit was prodding you to leave it.
Now that you HAVE left it, the enemy is coming after you full tilt!

God wants you to focus on His Son, and the fact that He loves you, and to have joy in the knowledge of that! This scene in God is Not Dead illustrates how the devil is content to let people inhabit a prison. It's when they want to LEAVE that prison is when satan gets enraged at you.

Bear in mind this is his mother he is talking to:[video=youtube;YVi0kEJT6rQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVi0kEJT6rQ[/video]

 

[Gr8grace]

"The truth" is GOD. Are you saying that God holds grace accountable and responsible? And I think Gr8 meant "lordship" not "loadship".

No I meant loadship.~~~Yeah grace is free, but you better load the ship with all the stuff you need to pay for this "free" grace.

It is lordship salvation or load of shi'p' salvation.

 

[eph610]

No I meant loadship.~~~Yeah grace is free, but you better load the ship with all the stuff you need to pay for this "free" grace.

It is lordship salvation or load of shi'p' salvation.

You made this a salvation thread not anyone else...

 

[CS1]

The difference? Not sure that's a question I can answer. It's like asking the difference between broccoli and a corvette. Theres no comparison. I will say this however, I am of the belief, with biblical support, that having faith in Jesus, real loving, yearning, thankful, grateful heartfelt faith, overrides all things in life. It doesn't matter who or what has such faith -- man, woman, White, Black, straight, gay etc. Faith in Jesus is the alpha and omega of our lives, and everything in between is moot. That's the power of the saving grace of Jesus. Therefore, I proclaim that gay people can, and are, indeed true Christians.

ok thank you I guess you then see the term gay as that of a race of people and in the same context as a man , women of one of color ? would it be fair to say you elevate those who have a sexual preference known as a worldly term " gay" which identify with homosexuality ? I can accept your point of men and women who are black white etc.. because God created them as such but not those who are gay. God did not create homosexuality HE did create a man and a women. there is no such thing as a gay person or people there are just people who do an act that is sinful .

 

[Gr8grace]

I never stated this once, I am stating that at some point AFTER salvation, there needs to be an evidence that people's flesh and minds are starting to align with their reconnected Spirit...

As I asked before. What is this evidence?

Our flesh is NEVER going to align with the Spirit.Never.

If this evidence NEEDS to come. Then this "evidence" is what is doing the saving.

Seems to me that your in about 1/64" of water and acting like your swimming .................and it ain't near a mile wide.

 

[eph610]

Our flesh is NEVER going to align with the Spirit.Never.

and All of Romans 8 completely destroys this statement...and is one little bit of evidence we should see....

8 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, [SUP]7 [/SUP]because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, [SUP]8 [/SUP]and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— [SUP]13 [/SUP]for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” [SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, [SUP]17 [/SUP]and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

I also just realized you never, ever post scripture on anything either....

 

[royalscot]

8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."Acts 15

paul reminding the meeting of who saved ,saved both the jews and to the gentiles believers.

16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring---not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,Romans 4: Abraham Justified by Faith

please note what was rejected

Acts 15: The Jerusalem Council
1 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.

5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."





everything the jewish law, was rejected here, to give to a gentile.

 

[Gr8grace]

and All of Romans 8 completely destroys this statement...and is one little bit of evidence we should see....

8 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, [SUP]7 [/SUP]because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, [SUP]8 [/SUP]and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— [SUP]13 [/SUP]for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” [SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, [SUP]17 [/SUP]and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

I also just realized you never, ever post scripture on anything either....

How in the world do you get that our flesh will align with the Spirit from Romans 8

So we can live in the Flesh? Our flesh will align with the Spirit?

Rom 8:5~~New American Standard Bible
For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

 

[TemporaryCircumstances]

I think you've got this all mixed up brother. God doesn't want you committing homosexual acts OR to feel depressed, unhappy, and lonely.

The enemy left you somewhat alone while you were in that relationship, with a phoney happiness, as the Holy Spirit was prodding you to leave it.
Now that you HAVE left it, the enemy is coming after you full tilt!

God wants you to focus on His Son, and the fact that He loves you, and to have joy in the knowledge of that! This scene in God is Not Dead illustrates how the devil is content to let people inhabit a prison. It's when they want to LEAVE that prison is when satan gets enraged at you.

Bear in mind this is his mother he is talking to:[video=youtube;YVi0kEJT6rQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVi0kEJT6rQ[/video]

I love that movie...