Hello VCO,
I would have to agree with RBA238 on this. When the rich man and Lazarus died, Lazarus was taken to Abraham's side in a location that was just across from Sheol/Hades which is where the rich man went and was in torment in flame. In between the two places, as described in Lk.16:26, there was a great chasm separating Sheol/Hades and that place of comfort where Lazarus, Abraham and the rest of the OT saints were. When Jesus was on the cross and he said to the man next to him, "today you will be with me in paradise," this place of paradise was the same place where Abraham and Lazarus were.
I know that was what we were always taught from childhood on, largely because of a misunderstanding of what the term "He
led captivity captive" meant. However, through various Bible Teachers such Dr. John MacArthur, Zola Levitt, and many others, I have grown into a better understanding of that term, and how it better fits Scripture.
The origin of that term is a Military expression that dates back to at least the time of the Judges:
Judges 5:12 (KJV)
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12 [/SUP] Awake, awake, Deborah: awake, awake, utter a song: arise, Barak, and
lead thy captivity captive, thou son of Abinoam.
We Christians for centuries have thought it was referring to returning our O.T. Believers, who were POWs, from the good side of Hades taking them to Heaven. That error is largely generated not only because of a misunderstanding of the term
lead thy captivity captive, but also a misunderstanding of what His descending into the "lower parts of the earth" was all about:
Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV)
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8 [/SUP] Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he
led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
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9 [/SUP] (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
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10 [/SUP] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
NOW when we first misunderstood that term
led captivity captivity, we also erroneously started thinking there had to be a good side of Hades, lower in the earth that was raised, because of this verse, which the NIV only served to rekindle that error in understanding:
Isaiah 61:1 (NIV)
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1 [/SUP] The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim
freedom for the captives and release
from darkness for the prisoners,
HOWEVER look at that verse in the Young's Literal Translation, and we see the NIV translation team may have carried their misunderstanding of that verse directly into the text.
Isaiah 61:1 (YLT)
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1 [/SUP] The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah
is on me, Because Jehovah did anoint me To proclaim tidings to the humble, He sent me to bind the broken of heart, To proclaim to captives liberty,
And to bound ones an opening of bands.
Where did the NIV get "
from darkness"? From their misunderstanding that there had to be a good side of hades below at one time.
NOW lets go back and look at the correct meaning of the Military term "
led captivity captive", which did not mean to set captives free. Throughout Bible Times, wherever there was a Great Military Victory, it was the custom to bring back not only the spoils of War, but also some of those guards in chains, who had at one time had held the Victor's POWs; to be marched in the KING'S Victory Parade. The focus is on the Enemy's GUARDS, not on the Captives.
Those GUARDS are DEATH and THE GRAVE.
1 Corinthians 15:54-55 (ASV)
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54 [/SUP] But when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written,
Death is swallowed up in victory.
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55 [/SUP]
O death, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting?
The Enemy's Guards, death and the Grave were Led in Christ's VICTORY PARADE all the way to Heaven, and that IS NOT A SURPRISE TO GOD the FATHER. It was part of HIS PLAN FROM BEFORE THE EARTH WAS FORMED. And WHATEVER GOD PLANS IS A
DONE DEAL BEFORE IT EVER HAPPENS.
Isaiah 46:11 (HCSB)
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11 [/SUP] I call a bird of prey from the east, a man for My purpose from a far country. Yes,
I have spoken; so I will also bring it about.I have planned it; I will also do it.
THEREFORE IN GOD's UNDERSTANDING, Christ the Messiah's death, burial, Victory over DEATH (Resurrection), and ASCENSION into Heaven to pour HIS SACRIFICIAL BLOOD AT THE BASE OF THE ALTAR IN HEAVEN,
WAS A DONE DEAL THE MOMENT HE PLANNED IT.
THEN on top of that GOD SAYS:
Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
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6 [/SUP]
"For I am the LORD, I do not change;
Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.
With that verse in mind, HOW did we EVER get it into heads that BELIEVERS of the Old Testament had their human spirits depart to the good side of Hades in the Lower Parts of the earth, while our human spirits go directly to Heaven, when GOD SAYS
HE DOES NOT CHANGE?
If we want to see how and when all Saints, whether they be O.T., N.T. or Tribulations Saints, enter Heaven; all we have to do is find in Scripture where tells us what happens to the human spirits; BECAUSE
GOD DOES NOT CHANGE.
Psalm 146:4 (NKJV)
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4 [/SUP]
His spirit departs, he returns to his earth; In that very day his plans perish.
2 Corinthians 5:8 (ASV)
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8 [/SUP] we are of good courage, I say, and are willing rather to be
absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.
Revelation 6:9-11 (HCSB)
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9 [/SUP] When He opened the fifth seal,
I saw under the altar the people slaughtered [beheaded] because of God’s word and the testimony they had.
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10 [/SUP] They cried out with a loud voice: “Lord, the One who is holy and true, how long until You judge and avenge our blood from those who live on the earth?”
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11 [/SUP] So a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer until ⌊the number⌋ would be completed ⌊of⌋ their fellow slaves and their brothers, who were going to be killed just as they had been.
So is going directly to Heaven upon one's Death a New Testament thought only? NO, it is at least as old as the Book of Ecclesiastes:
Ecclesiastes 3:21 (HCSB)
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21 [/SUP]
Who knows if the spirit of people rises upward and the spirit of animals goes downward to the earth?
Zechariah 12:1 (NASB)
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1 [/SUP] The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel.
Thus declares the LORD who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and
forms the spirit of man within him,
Job 32:8 (KJV)
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8 [/SUP] But
there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
Job 12:10 (YLT)
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10 [/SUP] In whose hand
is the breath of every living thing,
And the spirit of all flesh of man.'
Remember, ALL THE SAVED have their names written in the LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE, before the foundation of the world.
HENCE, considering the
LORD DOES NOT CHANGE, the only two choices of what happens to the human spirits upon DEATH, is
the Saved go UP to be with the LORD, and the
Unsaved go DOWN to the torment of Hades; and that is the GREAT GULF THAT IS FIXED.
SO WHAT IS HIS DESCENDING INTO THE LOWER PART OF THE EARTH ABOUT: It really does not give us much info about that, and it may only be a reference to entering the grave. However there is another theory that bares consideration too. Since our KING was leading HIS VICTORY PARADE all the way to Heaven, would He not want to start with proclaiming that VICTORY personally to demons in the pit that tried to pollute the human race, so that Messiah could not be born of a Virgin?
