He that turns his ear from hearing the law...

[eternally-gratefull]

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

A yet unfulfilled future prophesy (see also Rom 11 and other OT Prophesies concerning the repentance, forgiveness, and renewal of israel.

Does not in ANY WAY concern the church.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

my point is your mistaken claim that the new covenant was not with Israel, these verse I posted say different , I guess you missed that part.

well the new covenant was for the whole world. Not just Isreal.

The verses you posted have not even been fulfilled yet. And they are not the new covenant per say. If is a future event, when the redeemer comes, and all isreal is saved. For god does not forget his promises.. or his covenants, Thats why Isreal is my enemy concerning the gospel. but beloved concerning the promises.

 

[eph610]

No not all

The covenant made with noah was for all the world. The adamic covenant was made to all the world. and the covenant Christ made with the cross belongs to all the world. Not even ALL of the abrahamic covenant was just for Isreal (in you shall ALL THE NATIONS be blessed)

One could say in technicality, that this proves it because Israel is part of the world. But one also knows this is not what you meant..

5 of the 8 covenants were made exclusively with Israel:
The Abrahamic<<<<<<<<<<<gentiles only receive spiritual blessings and a blessing for blessing Israel.
The Mosaic
The Land Covenant
The Davidic
The New Covenant<<<<<The New Covenant was actually made to Israel first and then the gentiles were grafted in.

3 of the 8 were made with mankind in general.
The Edenic
The Adamic
The Noahic

 

[disciplemike]

there are no covenants for gentiles. the covenants belong to Israel. (didn't say physical Israel).
If you want to get in on the covenants, you have to be grafted into Israel by the blood of Messiah.

 

[eph610]

there are no covenants for gentiles. the covenants belong to Israel. (didn't say physical Israel).
If you want to get in on the covenants, you have to be grafted into Israel by the blood of Messiah.

Adam and Eve and Noah were not Part of Israel and the Covenants God made with Adam and Noah were made with God and Adam and Noah, with Adam & Noah standing in for all of humanity.

Stop spreading manure and calling it potting soil

 

[eternally-gratefull]

5 of the 8 covenants were made exclusively with Israel:
The Abrahamic<<<<<<<<<<<gentiles only receive spiritual blessings and a blessing for blessing Israel.
The Mosaic
The Land Covenant
The Davidic
The New Covenant<<<<<The New Covenant was actually made to Israel first and then the gentiles were grafted in.

3 of the 8 were made with mankind in general.
The Edenic
The Adamic
The Noahic

Israel was not even a nation when abraham was given a covenant.

Much of his covenant also had to do with ALL his kids, Not just the one.

the land covenant is part of the Abraham covenant, and is not in itself a lone covenant.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

there are no covenants for gentiles. the covenants belong to Israel. (didn't say physical Israel).
If you want to get in on the covenants, you have to be grafted into Israel by the blood of Messiah.

There was no Israel before Jacob was born.

There is no jew or gentile. All are one in Christ, from adam to the last man who will be born again.

 

[LaurenTM]

there are no covenants for gentiles. the covenants belong to Israel. (didn't say physical Israel).
If you want to get in on the covenants, you have to be grafted into Israel by the blood of Messiah.

we just love to put people into categories...kind of like hurricanes, yuh know> cat 1, cat 2, cat 3 and so on

I know some think Paul was not ligit and did not receive any instruction from Christ and was in fact, just about wrong in everything, but he said this:


There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28

that rascal went so far as to say that Gentiles recieved God's blessings APART from Israel!

it is interesting to note, that there is no mention of the church in the OT...that alone sets that body (forgive the pun) apart from the other covenants...therefore, the part the church has in the New Covenant was not known in the OT.

Paul taught this was actually a 'secret' part of God's plans and that Christ revealed it to him

This may begin to explain why certain factions of those converted Gentiles who believe they are now Jewish, and not just in the spiritual sense, cannot stand to even say Paul's name. (don't believe this is the case with the op, but it should be kept in mind IMO)

Anyway, the church participates in the spiritual blessings of the NC. (New Covenant) All other covenants involved physical blessings...this one, the new one, is spiritual...(however physical blessings are included as can be seen in a much wider study)

Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles...if you are not a born Jew...you are a Gentile...engrafted in, but you are not Jewish

Paul CONFIRMS that God made covenants with Israel..alone...to the exclusion of Gentiles.. see Galatians, Ephesians ...Paul was adamant that the NC did NOT include obedience to the covenants made by God with the nation of Israel. Paul's insistence that new converts did not need to be circumcised demonstrates the NC as APART from all others!

so pay attention here...what is being stated regarding covenants is deceptively wrong and needs to be understood as wrong

teaching that there are no covenants for Gentiles, would, by inclusion and default, INCLUDE all into all covenants and it seems that it is from THAT platform, that law abiders, Hebrew Roots etc, teach the law is binding, while mixing in grace, salvation and works.

 

[disciplemike]

They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises.

Romans 9:4 (ESV2011, MBM)



with respect, case closed.

 

[LaurenTM]

They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises.

Romans 9:4 (ESV2011, MBM)

you are twisting the words of Paul

you MUST twist the words in order for YOUR theology to work for you and those of like mind

The NEW COVENANT is the church and the church IS NOT MENTIONNED in the OT...it is THEREFORE UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE for you to make the claims you are making

wake up...you are deceived in what you say...I'm not kidding here and I am concerned that you are actually believing there is no covenant except for the OT covenants

the Bible expressly says differently from what you are saying...I just provided the proof in the mini study above your last post...I can go big and really share from scripture here, but I make no claim to teaching on this site...we discuss...but it seems you simply deny what the Bible says

you can't do that

it's outrageous for you to say everyone is now a Jew...you do not comprehend the scriptures

 

[eph610]

Israel was not even a nation when abraham was given a covenant.

Much of his covenant also had to do with ALL his kids, Not just the one.

the land covenant is part of the Abraham covenant, and is not in itself a lone covenant.

The Land Covenant is viewed as distinct & separate in the Scriptures...which is why I always separate it out.
We see the confirmation of this in Deut 29.1-Deut 30

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises.

Romans 9:4 (ESV2011, MBM)



with respect, case closed.

That does not include the new covenant,, The one God made with all nations, in fulfilment of the abrahamic covenant.

Paul just 2 chapters later said this same Israel were enemies of the gospel

 

[LaurenTM]

They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises.

Romans 9:4 (ESV2011, MBM)





with respect, case closed.

this is nonsense

you rip a verse out of context and tell us the case is closed. who do you think you are talking to here? a bucket of rocks?

let's look at the verse IN context:


Paul's Concern for the Jews

…3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my own flesh and blood,

4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory and the covenants; theirs the giving of the Law, the temple worship, and the promises. HERE IS YOUR VERSE 4 IN CONTEXT

5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them proceeds the human descent of Christ, who is God over all, forever worthy of praise!

Paul is bemoaning the fact the Jewish people...the nation of Israel as a whole...the ones to whom the promise of the Messiah was given...have REJECTED HIM!

he is saying he wishes he was cursed if that might cause the Jews to accept Christ! and the NEW COVENANT to which the shadow types of the OT pointed

much as you are rejecting the truth that is presented to you and all others you MUST read the Bible IN CONTEXT

you cannot rip out verses and say you have a case for your errant doctrine...that is nonsense and deception

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Land Covenant is viewed as distinct & separate in the Scriptures...which is why I always separate it out.
We see the confirmation of this in Deut 29.1-Deut 30

I see it all as part of the covenant to abraham.

1. In you shall come the messiah
2. In you shall all the nations of the world be blessed
3. I give to you and your descendents after you this land, as an eternal possession.

But it should be separate as far as the "blessing" and the "possession" are two different things.

Those blessed will go to heaven, One can possess and never see heaven.

 

[eph610]

I see it all as part of the covenant to abraham.

1. In you shall come the messiah
2. In you shall all the nations of the world be blessed
3. I give to you and your descendents after you this land, as an eternal possession.

But it should be separate as far as the "blessing" and the "possession" are two different things.

Those blessed will go to heaven, One can possess and never see heaven.

Yep, quite correct...I just separate it out when talking with scribes and lawyers....

 

[LaurenTM]

for the record, I expect NO acknowledgement of what I wrote other than more twisting...if even that

 

[LaurenTM]

I see it all as part of the covenant to abraham.

1. In you shall come the messiah
2. In you shall all the nations of the world be blessed
3. I give to you and your descendents after you this land, as an eternal possession.

But it should be separate as far as the "blessing" and the "possession" are two different things.

Those blessed will go to heaven, One can possess and never see heaven.

Abraham was in truth called out...we are called out

His FAITH was his justification

it's all there...the whole truth of all of it

too simple I guess

 

[eph610]

for the record, I expect NO acknowledgement of what I wrote other than more twisting...if even that

So how about we uhhhh ya know twist and shout....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Abraham was in truth called out...we are called out

His FAITH was his justification

it's all there...the whole truth of all of it

too simple I guess

Abraham believed God (trusted in him, Had faith, Had an assurance that what God said, God would do) And it was credited to him for righteousness.

All this was said, Before he did all those great works he is known to have done Before he sinned all those sins God has put in writing for us to see.

As you said, Too simple.. People not only like to water down the law. They water down what faith is..

Abraham did not say Maybe God will do it. Maybe God will keep his word. Abraham knew in his heart and had no dount, God will do what he said he will do..

 

[Grace777x70]

Abraham believed God (trusted in him, Had faith, Had an assurance that what God said, God would do) And it was credited to him for righteousness.

All this was said, Before he did all those great works he is known to have done Before he sinned all those sins God has put in writing for us to see.

As you said, Too simple.. People not only like to water down the law. They water down what faith is..

Abraham did not say Maybe God will do it. Maybe God will keep his word. Abraham knew in his heart and had no dount, God will do what he said he will do..

Amen...and we too can have the same type of faith as Abraham and believe all that Christ has done for us in His finished work on the cross, death, burial, resurrection and ascension to the right hand of the Father.

We can believe that we are "in Christ" now and that He says the Holy Spirit will be with us forever and that He would never forsake us. We have the same faith as our father Abraham does - we too are believers in what God says about Himself, others and ourselves.