Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

Placid · Oct 1, 2016

Hi Bluto,
I will answer your questions from Post 789, but first I want to enter this:
　
To continue from Post 776:
From the original Nicene Creed in 325, where it was settling the difference between the Father and Son, Constantine basically gave the idea that since they were of the 'same substance,' then declare them both Gods. And the last line was, "We believe in the Holy Spirit." --- This is evidence that there was no spiritual guidance in any of the decisions made.
A generation later in 381 they added to that, including the Holy Spirit as "Proceeding from the Father and Son" --- This suggesta that the "Spirit" did not come into being until after life began. --- But it was the Spirit of God that originated life, Genesis 1:2. --- Then it declares the Holy Spirit as the third, co-equal being.
　
The bigger sin was to say that all three should be worshipped and glorified together.
--- There is no place in Scripture where we are instructed to worship and glorify the Holy Spirit. --- Jesus said in John 16:
12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 He will glorify Me."
--- You see, the Holy Spirit does not speak from Himself, but the message He is given, He repeats. --- And the Holy Spirit glorifies Jesus through believers that He indwells. --- There is no place where it says 'worship and glorify the Holy Spirit.' --- In fact we are not instructed to 'worship Jesus,' though some did. --- But we are instructed only to worship God.
　
The Catholic trinity doctrine made God a mystery that theologians had to analize and figure out, so they could teach it in their Colleges, and unfortunately, a lot of time is consumed on trying to understand God, and His will for people's lives, --- because it leads astray.
　
--- And concerning the Scripture "From the Trinity Doctrine" it says
Quote: "All things necessary for our faith and life are either expressly set down in Scripture or may be deduced by good and necessary consequence from Scripture."
--- (That means man can add to the Scripture what they want it to say.)
　
So let's examine the terms, and language of trinity in the Strong's Concordance, which is based on the King James which was the Bible we started out with.
The 'deity' of Christ, --- Not found, because the word 'deity' is not in the Bible'
The 'divinity' of Christ --- Not found --- since 'divinity' is not in the Scripture.
The word 'divine' is used twice in 2 Peter 1, which speak of God's 'divine power,' and 'divine nature,' --- but no 'divine beings.'
--- 'God Incarnate,' 'incarnation' and 'pre-incarnation' are not found in Scripture.
The word 'trinity' is not found in the Scripture.
The term, 'co-equal,' --- is not in the Scripture
The concept of trinity, --- it was obviously not known to the Apostles, or they would have taught it.
--- A verse that says, 'Jesus is God,' --- or a verse where Jesus said, "I am God." --- No.
--- A verse that says, 'Christ is God,' --- or a verse where Christ said, "I am God." --- No.
And there are no verses that say Jesus was in heaven before He was born on earth. But it does say that "Jesus was born on earth."
--- There are no places where it says, 'the Word was Jesus,' or that says, 'Jesus was the Word.'
However, it does say that the 'Word was God,' --- so we do have two Gods, (which perhaps was their discussion that led to the first Nicene Creed.)

Basically, there is no wording in the Scripture that supports the concept of trinity. --- the thing it does is try to bring Almighty God down to the level of subordinates.
Placid

RBA238 · Oct 1, 2016

valiant said:

This is where the term "Personalies" is shown to be a false narrative. The Eternal Spirit ( The Father) The Son, and The Holy Ghost/Spirit is One and the same God. John 4 verse 24: "God is A SPIRIT, and those that worship him, MUST worship HIM in Spirit , and in Truth".

So God is a SPITIT/ The Holy Spirit Is a SPRIT, And our Bible tells us plainly there is only ONE SPIRIT. SO that simply shows The "Father" and The "Holy Ghost/ Holy Spirit" are ONE AND ONLY SPIRIT..NOT..NOT 2 PERSONS.!.
THE SON is God ( The Father) manifested in a Human Form NOT..NOT..NOT..two 'Persons"
(ITMOTHY 3 VERSE 16 KJV)
. In conclusion: Flesh is Weaker then Spirit, and that was the only reason Jesus, The Son, prayed to "The Father" He was teaching all of us to do likewise because our Weak flesh cannot go it alone without God's Spirit within us..

bluto · Oct 1, 2016

RBA238 said:

Apparantly rba you dom't even know your promoting a form of "Modalism" which the oneness penticostal cult teaches. You said this: "SO that simply shows The "Father" and The "Holy Ghost/ Holy Spirit" are ONE AND ONLY SPIRIT..NOT..NOT 2 PERSONS.!.
THE SON is God ( The Father) manifested in a Human Form NOT..NOT..NOT..two 'Persons"
(ITMOTHY 3 VERSE 16 KJV)"

What is "Modalism, or Sabellianism?" It is the belief that the three persons of the Trinity (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) are simply three "roles" of "modes" of the same person. This is why you told me about the "ADMINSTRATION" of God in one of your other post to me.

And I suspect, no let me say I know you do not know what the biggest problem is with modalism? If Jesus Christ is the person of God the Father (as you said) then when Jesus Christ was on that cross who was He calling out to by saying, "Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing" (Luke 23:34). Was He calling out to Himself?

And when Jesus was baptized who's voice said out of heaven "This is my beloved Son, in Thee I am well-pleased?" (Mark 1:11). Do you see the problem you have rba? You also quoted 1 Timothy 3:16, "And by common confession great is the mystery of godliness; "He who was revealed in the flesh, etc" The "He" in the verse is God the Son, not God the Father.

Now, my trick knee tells me that I'm pretty sure your not really a "Modalist" but you have adopted their teaching and I think it is not by design but by not understanding the relationship of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the Bible. When Philip at John 14:8 said to Jesus, "Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Vs9,Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip?" He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, Show us the Father?"

What Jesus Christ said or meant was that He is not the person of God the Father but like 1 Timothy 3:16 which you yourself quoted is that Jesus is the physical manifestation of God the Father. God the Father has no separate manifestion from the Son. The Son is the "ONLY" manifestation and revelation of the Father. What is know of the Father is revealed through the Son. So to see the Son is to see the essence of the Father, (John 1:1,18; John 10:30; John 12:45, Colossians 1:15, and Hebrews 1:3 to name a few verses. In short, this is not hard to understand!

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Quasar92 · Oct 1, 2016

No, bluto! Jesus IS NOT Almighty God, which is the exclusive title of the Father. The Father and the Son are two very separate entities, as recorded in the following:
[SUP]
Jn.14:28 [/SUP]“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

[SUP]Jn.17:3 "[/SUP]Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

Lk.23:46 "Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last."

Mt.1:20 "But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit."

[SUP]Jn.14:10 "[/SUP]Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."

Make a special note of Jn.14:10, where Jesus said that His FATHER lives in Him, doing His work. Obviously, Jesus has used God's title, FATHER for the Holy Spirit living in Him, doing His wotk. God is the Holy bSpirit and Father.

Quasar92

VCO · Oct 1, 2016

RBA238 said:

You would be wrong about that, this sight is for mainline Christians who believe in the Trinity.

prodigal · Oct 1, 2016

Modalism or Sabellianism is the position that God is one person who has taken on three different forms or personas in order to relate to us in different ways at different times. Some very prominent preachers such as T.D. Jakes hold this view, as do people who are Oneness Pentecostal or Oneness Baptist. (T.D. Jakes is part of the Oneness Pentecostal movement, coming from a United Pentecostal background.) However, the position misrepresents the nature of God and has been considered a heresy since about the third century.

http://www.comereason.org/oneness-doctrine.asp

Placid · Oct 1, 2016

Hi Bluto,
Quote from Post 789:
Ok placid, I'm only concerned with what you said here: "No, only God Almighty is God Almighty, and all other beings are subordinate to Him." Obviously from this statement you do not believe Jesus Christ is God.
Then you have in the New Testament John 1:3, "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."
　
Response: --- I will have to start with John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
--- In the beginning was the Word (Logos, the creative power of God), and the Word was with God.--- And the Word was God.
I checked this out in the Greek and then I asked our Bible teacher, who knows Greek and Hebrew, how to understand it.
　
The Greek says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (Theov) and the Word was God (Theos).
He (the Word, God, Theos) was in the beginning with God (Theov).
--- I asked the teacher and he said that Theos was subordinate to Theov.
Okay, so All things were made through Him (the Word), and without Him nothing was made that was made.

4 In Him (the Word) was life, and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John (the Baptist).
7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.
8 He (John) was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light (the Word, manifested in Jesus) which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He (the Word) was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
11 He came to His own (domain or creation), and His own (people) did not receive Him.
12 But as many as received Him (the Word, who was manifested in Jesus Christ), to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. --- (Who were born Spiritually)
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
--- (The Word and Christ were Spiritual so could not be seen, but were manifested in the flesh and blood body of Jesus.)
　
--- Among "us" refers to Andrew and John who were the first disciples., 'and "we" beheld His glory.'
15 John (the Baptist) bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’"
16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,[
f] (The footnote says 'only begotten God') who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
　
The New American Standard says:
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
The New International Version says:
18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
The Interlinear Greek English says:
18 God (Theov) no man has seen never; the only begotten God (Theos) the one being in the bosom of the Father, that one declared (him).
--- Enough for now.

bluto · Oct 1, 2016

Quasar92 said:

Well tell me something quasar since you made the following "foolish" statement, " Jesus IS NOT Almighty God, which is the exclusive title of the Father. The Father and the Son are two very separate entities, as recorded in the following:" Isaiah 9:6 identifies Jesus Christ as "Mighty God" as well as other titles in the verse. Can you tell me if Jesus Christ is a true God or a false god?

Notice the verse says Jesus is "Mighty God," and not "a Mighty God. And to make matters much worse for you please look at Isaiah 10:21, "A remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, TO THE MIGHTY GOD." Here you have Jehovah God being identified as "Mighty" God and we all know that He is also identified as "Almighty God" as well at Genesis 17:1 and at other places.

The point of this little exercise is the fact that "Mighty" can't mean less than "Almighty" and "Mighty." In other words, God cannot be almighty and less than almighty AT THE SAME TIME. Not only that but read Matthew 1:23, "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel, which translated means, "God with us." So tell us all here quasar, is this an Almighty God with us or just a Mighty God? What is the difference?

Btw, you should know you've adopted the JW's position on this issue because they say the same thing as you?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

VCO · Oct 2, 2016

jaybird88 said:

John 14:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

John 8:58 (NKJV)
[SUP]58 [/SUP] Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

Exodus 3:14 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.' "

Acts 4:11-12 (ESV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He.
No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.

John 10:30 (HCSB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] The Father and I are one.”

jaybird88 · Oct 2, 2016

VCO said:

John 14:28
"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

Mark 13:32
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Mark 10:37-40
37 They replied, “Let one of us sit at your right and the other at your left in your glory.”(AO)
38 “You don’t know what you are asking,”(AP) Jesus said. “Can you drink the cup(AQ) I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?”(AR)
39 “We can,” they answered.
Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with,(AS) 40 but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared.”

Luke 22:42
"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

RBA238 · Oct 3, 2016

jaybird88 said:

When Jesus declares in John 14 v 28 "The Farher is Greater Then I" he is stating The Father, (The Eternal Spirit) is GREATER THEN I (.Greator then my Fleshly body) if you always keep in mind when Jesus is stating something regarding "The Father" is telling us The Sprit is ready, but all flesh is weak.

bornofgod · Oct 3, 2016

bluto said:

The following is what one member on these forums stated, "FYI, I was a Trinitatian for 45 years unbtil I got tired of trying to support it when neither the Bible, Jesus nor His disciples taught it. Supposing you show me where they do."

First of all we all know the word "trinity" is not in the Bible. But that proves nothing because "monotheism, omnipresent, omnicient, omnipotent, the word "Bible" is not in there either. However, the concept of these words are in the Bible. Now, I have read a lot of what quasar has written and there are just too many flaws in what he says because he takes verses out of context to prove his errant theology.

He says Jesus never pre-existed His incarnation and one of the verses he uses is Proverbs 8:22. I will get back to this later. But first I want to say the doctrine of the trinity is not an "assumption" as quasar seems to think. It is the normative systematic theology of God in Christianity and is BASED on the fact that the Bible is explicit in tellin gus that there is, was and forever will be only ONE God and the fact that the Bible IDENTIFIES three (and only three) persons as God.

So, how does the Bible identify the persons of the Trinity?

1) His names.
2) His titles
3) His unique attributes
4) His unique actions
5) His worship

The Trinity does not rely on any single verse in the Bible for its representation and similarly, it cannot be refuted by any single verse in the Bible. It is a doctrine that explains the nature of the one and only true God described in the Bible. It is also drawn from a HARMONIZATION of ALL of scripture and therefore can only be understood from a view that accounts for ALL the Bible.

I always get a kick out of people (who don't think things through) when they say, "Show me one verse where Jesus claimed to be God?" As if there a verse like that in the Bible it would convice them that Jesus is God?

Or like quasar stated in his long list of particulars, "If Jesus is God did He rasie Himself?" Or an oldie but a goody, "If Jesus is God why didn't He know the time of His own return?"

Now, getting back to the identity issue. His names! Who is called by the NAMES of God (YHWH and its variants) either directly or indirectly but usually both. His titles! What are the recognized TITLES? (Lord, king, savior, first and last etc.)
His unique attributes/characteristic! (Omnipresence, omnipotence, eternality, omniciense etc.)

How about His unique actions! (Creation, origin of God's word, salvation of men and/or creation etc.) How about His worship? Who is given honor, reverence and position due to God ALONE? In fact, when Thomas declared to Jesus Christ Himself at John 20:28 that Jesus Christ was "his Lord and God" this was in the vain of the highest form of worship there can be.

Let me be clear that I am NOT saying that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all consistently, equally and in every mention identified as God in every place they are represented in the Bible by any combination of these 5. I am saying each person of the tgrinity receives some COMBINATION of the 5 means of identifying and distinguishing God listed above.

Another thing I noticed in reading what quasar stated was that he mixes terms thinking they mean the same thing. He equates the term "being" with the term "persons." They do not mean the same thing. He also used the word "separate" by saying the persons of the trinity are three separate persons. No they are not. They are distinct persons and the word "separate" and "distinct" do not mean the same thing.

Now getting back to quasar and him quoting Proverbs 8:22 to prove Jesus Christ was created. First of all the subject of Proverbs 8 is wisdon. And wisdom is identified as a "she" in the chapter. Secondly, the very wisdomj by which God acts is divne, it's always with Him. In other words, there was never a time when God was without wisdom. When Jesus Christ is called the wisdom of God at 1 Corithians 1:24 it mean in His humanity the human expression of Jesus Christ is Gods wisdom in action. Remember, Jesus Christ is the physical manifestation of God. So where am I going wrong? Anybody?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

If you honor thy Father and thy Mother, then you will learn everything the Father wants you to know before the end of this first age. Your earthly parents cannot teach you anything about the Father and thy Mother if they don't honor thy Father and thy Mother.

jaybird88 · Oct 3, 2016

RBA238 said:

so what Jesus meant to say is the Father is greater than I, but isnt? why not just accept what He says for what it is?

RBA238 · Oct 3, 2016

Bluto's problem is he is hard core Trinitarian. Nothing anyone explains will ever change his made up mind. Not to worry however; he has millions and millions like him worldwide.

bornofgod · Oct 3, 2016

RBA238 said:

Those who believe in the one verse in the New Testament that religious heathens added to it do not believe the prophecies of God's prophets;

Isaiah 40
28: Have you not known? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary, his understanding is unsearchable.

Isaiah 41
13: For I, the LORD your God, hold your right hand; it is I who say to you, "Fear not, I will help you."
14: Fear not, you worm Jacob, you men of Israel! I will help you, says the LORD; your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel.

Isaiah 43
1: But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.
2: When you pass through the waters I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you.
3: For I am the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior. I give Egypt as your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in exchange for you.
14: Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: "For your sake I will send to Babylon and break down all the bars, and the shouting of the Chalde'ans will be turned to lamentations.
15: I am the LORD, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King."

Isaiah 44
6: Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
24: Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who stretched out the heavens alone, who spread out the earth -- Who was with me? --

Isaiah 45
5: I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I gird you, though you do not know me,
6: that men may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.
7: I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the LORD, who do all these things.
8: "Shower, O heavens, from above, and let the skies rain down righteousness; let the earth open, that salvation may sprout forth, and let it cause righteousness to spring up also; I the LORD have created it.

Amos 4
13: For lo, he who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought; who makes the morning darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth -- the LORD, the God of hosts, is his name!

Deuteronomy 6
4: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD;
5: and you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.

Hosea 13
4: I am the LORD your God from the land of Egypt; you know no God but me, and besides me there is no savior.

2 Samuel 22
1: And David spoke to the LORD the words of this song on the day when the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul.
2: He said, "The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer,
3: my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge, my savior; thou savest me from violence.
4: I call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised, and I am saved from my enemies.

Isaiah 43
11: I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.

Isaiah 45
15: Truly, thou art a God who hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the savior.
16: All of them are put to shame and confounded, the makers of idols go in confusion together.
17: But Israel is saved by the LORD with everlasting salvation; you shall not be put to shame or confounded to all eternity.

People who think Jesus is their Lord and Savior are worshiping another god.

Jesus was just another flesh of man that God, our Savior, used to testify to His Word by forming words in the mind of Jesus to speak to His chosen believers who listened to those words and knew they came from their Creator.

RBA238 · Oct 3, 2016

bornofgod said:

Those who believe in the one verse in the New Testament that religious heathens added to it do not believe the prophecies of God's prophets;

Isaiah 40
28: Have you not known? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary, his understanding is unsearchable.

Isaiah 41
13: For I, the LORD your God, hold your right hand; it is I who say to you, "Fear not, I will help you."
14: Fear not, you worm Jacob, you men of Israel! I will help you, says the LORD; your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel.

Isaiah 43
1: But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.
2: When you pass through the waters I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you.
3: For I am the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior. I give Egypt as your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in exchange for you.
14: Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: "For your sake I will send to Babylon and break down all the bars, and the shouting of the Chalde'ans will be turned to lamentations.
15: I am the LORD, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King."

Isaiah 44
6: Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
24: Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who stretched out the heavens alone, who spread out the earth -- Who was with me? --

Isaiah 45
5: I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I gird you, though you do not know me,
6: that men may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.
7: I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the LORD, who do all these things.
8: "Shower, O heavens, from above, and let the skies rain down righteousness; let the earth open, that salvation may sprout forth, and let it cause righteousness to spring up also; I the LORD have created it.

Amos 4
13: For lo, he who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought; who makes the morning darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth -- the LORD, the God of hosts, is his name!

Deuteronomy 6
4: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD;
5: and you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.

Hosea 13
4: I am the LORD your God from the land of Egypt; you know no God but me, and besides me there is no savior.

2 Samuel 22
1: And David spoke to the LORD the words of this song on the day when the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul.
2: He said, "The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer,
3: my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge, my savior; thou savest me from violence.
4: I call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised, and I am saved from my enemies.

Isaiah 43
11: I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.

Isaiah 45
15: Truly, thou art a God who hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the savior.
16: All of them are put to shame and confounded, the makers of idols go in confusion together.
17: But Israel is saved by the LORD with everlasting salvation; you shall not be put to shame or confounded to all eternity.

People who think Jesus is their Lord and Savior are worshiping another god.

Jesus was just another flesh of man that God, our Savior, used to testify to His Word by forming words in the mind of Jesus to speak to His chosen believers who listened to those words and knew they came from their Creator.

Isaiah 43..."I AM THE LORD, AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOR"...Acts Chapter 9: And Saul (Apostle Paul).asked: "WHO ART THOU LORD"? and the voice from heaven said: "I.AM JESUS, WHOM THOU PERSECUTEST....."

So here bluto.we see THE LORD is declaring himself as JESUS. he also stated: "I AM JESUS"
He is not only the great IAM from the Old Testament, but The "Father" as well as the "Son" have the SAME NAME. Acts 4 verse 12/ Isaiah 43 declares He is the Only Savior. So that makes the Father as well as the Son, One and the very same LORD..GOD..SAVIOR! Thank God for THE TRUTH FROM SCRIPTURE.!!

bornofgod · Oct 3, 2016

RBA238 said:

Isaiah 43..."I AM THE LORD, AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOR"...Acts Chapter 9: And Saul (Apostle Paul).asked: "WHO ART THOU LORD"? and the voice from heaven said: "I.AM JESUS, WHOM THOU PERSECUTEST....."

So here bluto.we see THE LORD is declaring himself as JESUS. he also stated: "I AM JESUS"
He is not only the great IAM from the Old Testament, but The "Father" as well as the "Son" have the SAME NAME. Acts 4 verse 12/ Isaiah 43 declares He is the Only Savior. So that makes the Father as well as the Son, One and the very same LORD..GOD..SAVIOR! Thank God for THE TRUTH FROM SCRIPTURE.!!

Antichrists always twist the words of the Lord and Savior and make them believe Jesus is their Lord.

fredoheaven · Oct 3, 2016

Deut. 6:4 reads, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one."

Now it is important to note that the Hebrew word used for 'one' is NOT yahid, which denotes absolute singularity elsewhere in the OT. Instead, Moses chose the Hebrew word ehad, which signifies unity and oneness in plurality. This word is used in Gen 2:24 where Adam and Eve are instructed to become "one flesh". It's also found in Numbers 13:23, where the Hebrew spies returned with a "single cluster" of grapes. So Deut 6:4 actually supports the concept of the Trinity, by noting that God is "oneness in plurality" (composite unity). The same word which describes the oneness of a marriage relationship is also used to describe God's essence!

fredoheaven · Oct 3, 2016

Almighty and Mighty God
Bible Believers should not be stunned when the Russelites or any skeptics who says that the Father (Jehovah) is the ALMIGHTY GOD and that JESUS CHRIST is only MIGHTY GOD, claiming that they are not equal. The issue here as described by Isaiah the Prophet refer Jesus as the MIGHTY GOD (Isah. 9:6) and that JEHOVAH (YHWH) is the ALMIGHTY GOD (Gen. 17:1;Exo. 6:3).
To fix this seemingly problem in the equality of God the Father and the Son, we shall be using the CHART that will present the two (2) Persons being presented in whom the ALMIGHTY GOD is also the MIGHTY GOD and that the MIGHTY GOD is also the ALMIGHTY GOD.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]
The Father

[/TD]
[TD]
Almighty God
Gen.17:1 Exo. 6:3
[/TD]
[TD]
Mighty God
Jer.32:18;Gen.2:4 Psalms 50:1,7; Hab. 1:12
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
The Son

[/TD]
[TD]
Mighty God
Isah. 9:6
[/TD]
[TD]
Almighty God
Rev. 1:8; 11:17; Isah.48:12
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

bornofgod · Oct 3, 2016

fredoheaven said:

Almighty and Mighty God
Bible Believers should not be stunned when the Russelites or any skeptics who says that the Father (Jehovah) is the ALMIGHTY GOD and that JESUS CHRIST is only MIGHTY GOD, claiming that they are not equal. The issue here as described by Isaiah the Prophet refer Jesus as the MIGHTY GOD (Isah. 9:6) and that JEHOVAH (YHWH) is the ALMIGHTY GOD (Gen. 17:1;Exo. 6:3).
To fix this seemingly problem in the equality of God the Father and the Son, we shall be using the CHART that will present the two (2) Persons being presented in whom the ALMIGHTY GOD is also the MIGHTY GOD and that the MIGHTY GOD is also the ALMIGHTY GOD.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] The Father
[/TD]
[TD]Almighty God
Gen.17:1 Exo. 6:3[/TD]
[TD]Mighty God
Jer.32:18;Gen.2:4 Psalms 50:1,7; Hab. 1:12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]The Son
[/TD]
[TD]Mighty God
Isah. 9:6[/TD]
[TD]Almighty God
Rev. 1:8; 11:17; Isah.48:12[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Antichrists always twist the scriptures because they have never listened to the voice of God and obeyed his commandments.

Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

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