How to prove that the Earth is flat, and not a sphere...

[EarnestQ]

GaryA,

I can't help but wonder if you truly believe in the flat earth non-sense, or if you have some alternative reason for pretending to support it.

If you sincerely believe it, then, respectfully, you are delusional and need to get help.

If you sincerely believe this, the devil has deceived you beyond description. There is nothing in any form of logic or science that can be warped to support such a ridiculous position.

Those who truly believe in a flat earth can only do so because they are not in full touch with reality and value their own imagination above the truth of the world around them. They most certainly are not mature or healthy Christians (assuming an average western cultural education).

Others in this thread have given rational proof to disprove such an idea. The following is a link where you can get predictions of when to see satellites travel across the night sky.

Gpredict: Free, Real-Time Satellite Tracking and Orbit Prediction Software

Within the last few weeks, twice I have used that site to know when to watch a satellite travel across my own sky. I saw the ISS moving where the site said it would be. Do you really believe there is a "conspiracy" that spends so much time and money to make it look like there is a satellite crossing the sky when it is not really there? WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF SUCH A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY?

Occam's razor says that a simpler explanation is to be preferred over a more complex one. The simplest explanation is that the world is a globe and that satellites and radios and geography and all science are what they purport to be, rather than imagining there is a vast super conspiracy by some unnamed, undocumented, unprovable group that is employing half the world's population to pointlessly deceive the other half of the world.

If you truly believe in a "flat earth" you have to be able to re-explain everything we know about radio wave propagation, including how every radio transmitter and receiver in the world, works according to your "new improved" theory. Until you are willing and able to do this, claiming that there is a flat world conspiracy that is deceiving everyone in the world - except you - has less eternal value than farting in the wind.

I have been in the radio and electronics field for 45 years and am an amateur radio license holder. I have a good understanding of how the globe impacts radio wave propagation. For instance, it is possible to broadcast both directions around the world to another ham radio operator. In fact, under the correct conditions and with proper equipment, one can even send a signal around the world to oneself. Only a delusional person would deny the truth of such facts.

But no amount of true science and logic will convince a delusional person they are wrong. So, it seems to me that either you need help because you have a false sense of reality, as I mentioned above, or you are just playing a game pretending to promote this position.

If the later, why, please? Is your life really so miserable that arguing non-sense is the only interaction you can get with other people? Or, are you doing this in cooperation with others for some other ulterior motive?

If you truly believe this delusion, may God work in your life and bring you the help you need.

If you know better, why do you waste your time and ours promoting such a pointless deception? It is not possible to convince rational adults of a flat earth, so why do you waste you time attempting to do so? Do you really have nothing better to do with your life?

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Do any flat earthers own telescopes?

i don't know but i had a 'christian' geocentrist once tell me that telescopes were controlled by satan and show demonic illusions designed to deceive us...

i had no idea i could make such a diabolical device for receiving communication from the forces of darkness in the spiritual world just by holding one piece of glass in front of another...

 

[tourist]

Most people can, actually.

Happens all of the time.

 

[GaryA]

Earnest:

I appreciate your concern. Please be patient.

I have not been responding to much of anything on CC in the last 2-3 weeks because I have been really busy with something work-related. I have been working 10-12 hours a day, 5-6 days a week. I have, for the most part, only taken [ some ] time to read the [ relatively few ] new posts that have been made to my subscribed threads...

Also - yesterday, my home was "violated" by someone who came into my house ( while I was out ) - with or without a key (?) - and "left me a message" in the form of highly-particular-and-singular "targeted" damage to something I own - that I recently paid a lot of money for and had in my possession for no more than 24 hours at that point in time - and, having not told more than one individual about it - and, only the day before. ( And, I trust the individual who I told about it. )

Nothing else in the house was touched. Nothing was stolen. Nothing else was damaged.

Very mysterious...

It was obviously deliberate.

Who would do such a thing?

What exactly was the message?

At the very least, it seems to have been intended to say:

"I just want you to know that I can 'mess' / 'toy' with you..."

( I don't think I know of anyone who actually hates me. )

But, I digress...

Lord willing (?) - I will try to address some things in this thread - or, on this topic - at some future point in time...?

Right now, I really must deal with what happened here yesterday.

I am not giving any more details about it at this point in time.

"A police investigation may or may not be being conducted. yada, yada, yada... blah, blah, blah... etc., etc., etc..."

I feel violated and angry. I want to know 'who?' and 'why?'...!!!

I will see about returning my thoughts and attention to CC after I attempt to gain at least a little bit of "closure" on this issue.

 

[GaryA]

Who would do such a thing?

Who?!? - is that much of a COWARD!???




Do any of you know someone like that? Someone who is not willing to face a person that they feel they have a 'problem' with ( if that is what it is ) - and, discuss it like two adult thinking people? Someone who feels like they have to lash out at someone in order to achieve some kind of twisted self-satisfaction...? Someone who is so much of a coward that they feel the necessity to perform 'evil deeds' in secret instead of dealing openly and honestly with others?

 

[posthuman]

So... what is passing over my head at night, is luminous like a star in appearance, and is moving across the field of view, at much greater apparent speed than the stars, in different directions and speeds at different times? They aren't planes; my hearing is good enough to pick planes during the day, so it's good enough at night.

they don't blink, either - not being fitted with the lights that all commercial aircraft have - and they move much faster. than any plane. it also appears they are not being lit by themselves, but by reflected light, because they aren't always visible all the way across the sky - they may appear midway, or disappear midway, or at any other point in their apparent flight arc.

i guess if you're a conspiracist you could say they are all superfast military planes with superbright lights they flick on and off sometimes, and that they are always in the sky travelling published, extremely predictable paths for anyone to see, together with a schedule of when their lights will be on, all for the purpose of tricking people into thinking they are satellites. at that they fly in these published, extremely predictable arcs and with superbright & variable light on/off patterns that are excruciatingly carefully and specifically calculated to make it appear the earth is a globe, instead of in flight patterns that would be 'normal' on a flat earth -- all for the express purpose of fooling people. because making people believe the earth is round is very very very very important.

what a waste of fuel & tech that would be, right? wow, the illuminati are not careful with resources.

 

[Oncefallen]

i had no idea i could make such a diabolical device for receiving communication from the forces of darkness in the spiritual world just by holding one piece of glass in front of another...

Just plain flat glass isn't that bad, its the convex and concave pieces of glass that harness the demonic powers.

 

[Persuaded]

If you believe the earth is flat, you obviously have never visited the Boston Mountains of Arkansas!
I bought 320 acres here and still had to spend two days on a bulldozer to have a flat place to build a house.

 

[Zmouth]

that they feel the necessity to perform 'evil deeds' in secret instead of dealing openly and honestly with others?

Don't worry, they will do it openly and will make it look honest, trust me. Have you ever seen piece of land with a deed disappear from the face of the earth?

But are you dealing honestly with others? do you actually believe the earth (Genesis 1:10
10 And God called the dry land Earth..." is flat which you can see by moutains and valleys that the earth is not flat.

Or are you saying the earth (Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.) is flat as in saying the universe is flat since the heaven and the earth in Genesis are not the same 'Heaven'(Genesis 1:8) and Earth in (Genesis 1:10) as the heaven and earth in Genesis 1:1.

If you honestly believe this planet we live on is flat then are you dealing honestly with yourself?

 

[friendinpeace]

There are easier ways to determine this.

First, the airplane would be able to make a flat flight across the world, if it was flat, circular if it was circular.

Basically, go around the world, if you can get back to where you started, without turning around, the earth could not be flat because it would require being on the bottom side to go around it, and get to the same place without turning around.

Another way is to look at world travel. If a plane can get from America to china going west, this would show China is west of America. If a plane can get a person from America to England going east, it would show Europe is east of America, if a plane can get to china from europe going east it would show china is east of europe. If a plane can get a person to europe, than China, going east, and to China directly going west, this proves the world is round, because if the world is flat, you would only be able to get to eventually go to china going west, or by going east, no location would be accessible going either, china would not be east of europe, if europe is east of America, which is west of China. There is not 2 chinas.

 

[posthuman]

There are easier ways to determine this.

First, the airplane would be able to make a flat flight across the world, if it was flat, circular if it was circular.

Basically, go around the world, if you can get back to where you started, without turning around, the earth could not be flat because it would require being on the bottom side to go around it, and get to the same place without turning around.

Another way is to look at world travel. If a plane can get from America to china going west, this would show China is west of America. If a plane can get a person from America to England going east, it would show Europe is east of America, if a plane can get to china from europe going east it would show china is east of europe. If a plane can get a person to europe, than China, going east, and to China directly going west, this proves the world is round, because if the world is flat, you would only be able to get to eventually go to china going west, or by going east, no location would be accessible going either, china would not be east of europe, if europe is east of America, which is west of China. There is not 2 chinas.

Gary is telling us that there is no such thing as "east" or "west"

there is only "clockwise" and "counterclockwise"

and no such thing as "sunset" and "sunrise" -- only "sunlow/sunfar" and "sunhigh/sunnear"

who knows why the Bible talks about east and west being specific direction the sun literally rises out the horizon and sinks below it. maybe it's using allegorical language?

 

[EarnestQ]

There is an annual event in Antarctica. It is called the walk around the world. After they determine the precise south pole each year (the ice moves from year to year) a group of people walk around it a few hundred yards out (if I remember correctly).

If the earth were not a globe how would they do this?

 

[posthuman]

watch the sunset tonight.

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]if the Earth is a disc, it will look like this:



[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]if the Earth is a globe, it will look like this:



[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]easy experiment to do, from anywhere on the planet, any time anyone has a clear view at nightfall ((likewise any morning, in reverse))

 

[EarnestQ]

Posthuman, you make a good point.

It can more comfortably be proven with a coin and the moon, however.

On any clear moonlit night, hold a coin out to the point where it just covers the disk of the moon. Do this at moon rise, several times during the night, and at moon set.

You will find that the coin will always cover the moon at the same distance from your eye.

If the moon were changing its distance from the position of the viewer, as it would have to do if the earth were flat, the perceived size would change. Furthermore, most every person on earth would see a different relative size of the moon at any given moment because they would be farther or nearer the physical position of the moon at that time.

Since every person on earth will always see the exact same size of the the moon no matter when or where they view it, it is delusional to think the earth is flat and the moon somehow magically moves in some route above us magically keeping its same size no matter when or where it is seen.

Additionally, only a lunatic would claim that ocean tides are a conspiracy. They also prove the world is a globe. Any average 12 year old can easily understand how the rotation of the earth and the gravity of the moon create two high tides and two low tides per day. If you don't know, look it up.

Any flat-earther has to be able to mathematically explain how tides work based on their "superior understanding of reality".

Mathematics is at the core of our technical world, including the computers all over the world upon which this text is being read. Declaring mathematics to be an unreliable tool with which to understand the science of the world, including its shape, is the same as saying that we are not really using computers and the internet to communicate on this forum, but that we all are deluded by some vast conspiracy and that our computers really work by magic.


What kind of people make such claims?

I am at a loss to understand how someone, anyone, with enough intelligence to use a computer to post on this forum, would not be able to reason through the non-sense of flat-earth claims.

In which case, I can't help but wonder if there is some OTHER reason people pretend to promote a flat-earth view with the mandatory accompanying world-wide conspiracy.

Are they bored and too introverted to develop healthy relationships with average normal mediocre people? (To one extent or another, we are all average and mediocre.)

Or, is there a "conspiracy" (two or more people who have agreed) to promote such time wasting non-sense on Christian websites.

If the later, are they satanists who do all they can to discredit, distract, and dispute anything related to the truth of Christ and His world around us?


[Another question I have is why do I spend so much of my time pretending that anything I say in response to such non-sense will make any difference to anyone anywhere? The deluded will likely not read, much less, accept, what I say. And the deceivers couldn't care less what anyone says. So why did I make this post?]

(Well, perhaps the following joke will have more value than anything I said above.)

[As a technological aside, "true" electronics technicians and engineers understand that there is a conspiracy
in science to pretend that electronics work through manipulation of electrons. They know that electronic devices actually work via "magic smoke". You see, when you let the magic smoke out of an electronic device, it doesn't work anymore.]

[They also know that when a computer or something equally complex is out of whack, the best thing you can do is to "whack it".]

 

[shrimp]

Honestly, I can't help myself. It's too funny.

 

[jeager]

Whooooooooooooooooo boy!!!

I can't believe I'm even answering this post.

I just can not imagine anyone believing the earth is flat.

When humans made the moon landings so long ago my father honestly believed the t-v pictures were
Hollywood STUNTS.

But then pops never finished the 3rd grade either.
Technology was something he just couldn't grasp. If he couldn't grasp it then it couldn't happen.

He never believed the sound barrier had been broken either.
He said I COULD NOT go to college as it was for SMART boys.
Thus I didn't.
Decades later at age 48 I DID attend college and earned TWO degrees.
Fooled him what?

Ignorance might just be lack of education.

STUPID is a state of mind.
Just sayin'.

(Not a slight to anyone here. O.K.?)

 

[jeager]

Honestly, I can't help myself. It's too funny.
View attachment 160656

THAT is funny!

 

[jeager]

GaryA,

I can't help but wonder if you truly believe in the flat earth non-sense, or if you have some alternative reason for pretending to support it.

If you sincerely believe it, then, respectfully, you are delusional and need to get help.

If you sincerely believe this, the devil has deceived you beyond description. There is nothing in any form of logic or science that can be warped to support such a ridiculous position.

Those who truly believe in a flat earth can only do so because they are not in full touch with reality and value their own imagination above the truth of the world around them. They most certainly are not mature or healthy Christians (assuming an average western cultural education).

Others in this thread have given rational proof to disprove such an idea. The following is a link where you can get predictions of when to see satellites travel across the night sky.

Gpredict: Free, Real-Time Satellite Tracking and Orbit Prediction Software

Within the last few weeks, twice I have used that site to know when to watch a satellite travel across my own sky. I saw the ISS moving where the site said it would be. Do you really believe there is a "conspiracy" that spends so much time and money to make it look like there is a satellite crossing the sky when it is not really there? WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF SUCH A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY?

Occam's razor says that a simpler explanation is to be preferred over a more complex one. The simplest explanation is that the world is a globe and that satellites and radios and geography and all science are what they purport to be, rather than imagining there is a vast super conspiracy by some unnamed, undocumented, unprovable group that is employing half the world's population to pointlessly deceive the other half of the world.

If you truly believe in a "flat earth" you have to be able to re-explain everything we know about radio wave propagation, including how every radio transmitter and receiver in the world, works according to your "new improved" theory. Until you are willing and able to do this, claiming that there is a flat world conspiracy that is deceiving everyone in the world - except you - has less eternal value than farting in the wind.

I have been in the radio and electronics field for 45 years and am an amateur radio license holder. I have a good understanding of how the globe impacts radio wave propagation. For instance, it is possible to broadcast both directions around the world to another ham radio operator. In fact, under the correct conditions and with proper equipment, one can even send a signal around the world to oneself. Only a delusional person would deny the truth of such facts.

But no amount of true science and logic will convince a delusional person they are wrong. So, it seems to me that either you need help because you have a false sense of reality, as I mentioned above, or you are just playing a game pretending to promote this position.

If the later, why, please? Is your life really so miserable that arguing non-sense is the only interaction you can get with other people? Or, are you doing this in cooperation with others for some other ulterior motive?

If you truly believe this delusion, may God work in your life and bring you the help you need.

If you know better, why do you waste your time and ours promoting such a pointless deception? It is not possible to convince rational adults of a flat earth, so why do you waste you time attempting to do so? Do you really have nothing better to do with your life?

Do ya think psychotherapy might be helpful???

Just askin'.

I mean a flat earth. Really?

 

[EarnestQ]

I don't understand how a relatively intelligent sane person could believe in a flat earth. So, as best as I can guess, such a person either knows better and has issues that cause him to make such statements, or he sincerely believes it but is so deluded and deceived that he is not in full touch with reality.

In the latter case, straight reasoning with such a person will not likely break through their delusion. In the former, I wonder what motivates such a person to act like such an idiot. But, again, reasoning with them will make no difference. In either case, perhaps there are emotional and/or psychoneurological issues that might benefit from prayer and the right kind of professional help.


I am willing to listen to any suggestions you might make regarding to responding to such posts.

 

[Posted]

Hi All, Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it, this image is the generally accepted heliocentric model. (Obviously not to scale)

(Use vice-versa = summer/winter depending on you location on the Earth)

The reason they say seasons change is due to our position to the sun as the image shows, Notice the axis is ALWAYS pointing to Polaris.

In the SUMMER as we rotate west to east, the "sunsets" and "sunrises" make sense. We rotate DOWN (toward the sun) so the sun appears to be going UP for MORNING, and as we rotate UP (away from the sun) the sun appears to be going DOWN for EVENING.


Moving on to WINTER... Here, it is OPPOSITE, as we rotate UP (toward the sun) the sun would appear to be going DOWN (MORNING) and as we rotate DOWN (away from the sun) it would make the sun appear to go UP (EVENING).

I think I stated that correctly, my brain and words sometimes don't like to mesh.

So, any ideas on this? Am I missing something?

I have posted this on a few forums and no one seems to want to help me out, or maybe no one can?