The Real Truth About Joseph Prince!

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh no, I opened a discussion thread on the bible in the bdf. Who would have guessed.
And what were they about. The parable of the lost coin, praise good things in others,
eph 2:6 dwelling in the heavenly realms.

Not exactly attacking anyone or anything but discussing biblical issues.
But then if you do not appreciate a certain theology, it obviously shows in antipathy.

Here we go again, Why do people bother. What does that one thread have to do with what I said. Do you EVER read what people actually write, are are you always this way.

If your thread had nothing to do with JP (which it did not) or what you all speak of as hypergrace or in your own words "extreme grace" gospels? then that thread was not the one I was complaining about.

Sometimes peter. You just need to think before you speak.

 

[JGIG]

[video=youtube;wDMhpShQLn0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDMhpShQLn0[/video]

 

[PeterJens]

Lol HG group? Who are they Considering grace in itself can be no more "hyper' tahan it already is, So all grace believers are "hyper grace "believers also.

DO you see us opening thread after thread attacking people we consider promote legalism and a salvation which is based on works. Who are not here to defend themselves?

Funny how it is always the same three people. , Who opens these threads. Over and over (and yes peters. You are one of them, you have opened one yourself) That, in the real world. And notice how they blame everyone else for their sin..

Sorry EG, you said I am one of the people openning threads, specifically.
And no I have not opened one on HG for months, because for me it is irrelevant.
I have answered all the questions I am interested in as far as HG is concerned,
so I wonder what you meant by the above, lol.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry EG, you said I am one of the people openning threads, specifically.
And no I have not opened one on HG for months, because for me it is irrelevant.
I have answered all the questions I am interested in as far as HG is concerned,
so I wonder what you meant by the above, lol.

Thank you Peter. You just proved me right.. I said you have opened one, I did not say when Just you did.

 

[PeterJens]

Thank you Peter. You just proved me right.. I said you have opened one, I did not say when Just you did.

Wow. Back in december 2015 I did not know what HG was and asked a question about
what it was, is that now a problem?

EG your intent is off by some way. It is not a problem to discuss Joseph Prince and his
theology. If you do not want to discuss it, then do not comment.

Peoples opinions need to be aired. If you have a legitimate problem with an opinion
then put your case, else it becomes just inverted slander.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Any suggested way of victory other than the Cross of Christ, such as the “Purpose Driven Life,” the “Government of Twelve,” the “Word of Faith,” or “Denominationalism,” etc., constitutes idolatry. In effect, it is the same as Old Testament times, when Israel would begin to worship idols instead of Jehovah. To be sure, Israel actually referred to these idols as Jehovah; but the Lord definitely did not look at it in the same manner! And neither does He look any differently at modern idolatry!
Furthermore, all of this constitutes “heresies,” in which the modern Church abounds.

Let me say it more clearly:
Any doctrine, way, scheme, or direction made up by men, which means it is devised by men and not by God, is constituted by the Lord as “heresy,” which is a “work of the flesh.” Let me say it again, and because it is so very, very important! Any way other than “Christ and Him Crucified” is, in the eyes of God, “heresy.” Once one begins to understand these “works of the flesh,” these things become more obvious.

- Pastor Jimmy Swaggart​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow. Back in december 2015 I did not know what HG was and asked a question about
what it was, is that now a problem?

EG your intent is off by some way. It is not a problem to discuss Joseph Prince and his
theology. If you do not want to discuss it, then do not comment.

Peoples opinions need to be aired. If you have a legitimate problem with an opinion
then put your case, else it becomes just inverted slander.

ok peter.

I said you opened a post (you just proved me right) are you going to say your sorry, you made a mistake, repent. Or continue to prove yourself right at all cost. In detriment to yourself (because you prove what people say about you is true)

ps. Dec 15? hmm,, I did not even know about that one, so you had more?? That makes me more right..

do you have any humility peter. now would be a great time to show it

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Any suggested way of victory other than the Cross of Christ, such as the “Purpose Driven Life,” the “Government of Twelve,” the “Word of Faith,” or “Denominationalism,” etc., constitutes idolatry. In effect, it is the same as Old Testament times, when Israel would begin to worship idols instead of Jehovah. To be sure, Israel actually referred to these idols as Jehovah; but the Lord definitely did not look at it in the same manner! And neither does He look any differently at modern idolatry!
Furthermore, all of this constitutes “heresies,” in which the modern Church abounds.

Let me say it more clearly:
Any doctrine, way, scheme, or direction made up by men, which means it is devised by men and not by God, is constituted by the Lord as “heresy,” which is a “work of the flesh.” Let me say it again, and because it is so very, very important! Any way other than “Christ and Him Crucified” is, in the eyes of God, “heresy.” Once one begins to understand these “works of the flesh,” these things become more obvious.

- Pastor Jimmy Swaggart​

Paul tells us this in the 5th Chapter of Galatians. The entire Book of Galatians, but especially the 5th Chapter, is a warning from Paul to the Church at Galatia, which is also meant for us. The warning is that if they place their faith in anything except “Christ and Him Crucified,” that “Christ shall profit you nothing” (Gal. 5:2).

The Apostle goes on to say that if the Believer doesn’t adhere to the Way of the Spirit, which is the Way of the Cross, then works of the flesh will manifest themselves. He said:​

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God” (Gal. 5:19-21).

Now let me say it again, because it is so very important:
If the Believer doesn’t understand the Cross of Christ, as it regards Sanctification, then, in some way, one or more of these “works of the flesh” are going to manifest themselves in his life. As stated, such is inevitable! The first four, “Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, and lasciviousness,” are obvious and easily understood. But the modern Christian quickly dismisses “idolatry, witchcraft, and heresies,” thinking they do not really apply today.

Let us address that:
First of all, any suggested way of victory other than the Cross of Christ, such as the “Purpose Driven Life,” the “Government of Twelve,” the “Word of Faith,” or “Denominationalism,” etc., constitutes idolatry. In effect, it is the same as Old Testament times, when Israel would begin to worship idols instead of Jehovah. To be sure, Israel actually referred to these idols as Jehovah; but the Lord definitely did not look at it in the same manner! And neither does He look any differently at modern idolatry!
Furthermore, all of this constitutes “heresies,” in which the modern Church abounds.
​

Let me say it more clearly:
Any doctrine, way, scheme, or direction made up by men, which means it is devised by men and not by God, is constituted by the Lord as “heresy,” which is a “work of the flesh.” Let me say it again, and because it is so very, very important! Any way other than “Christ and Him Crucified” is, in the eyes of God, “heresy.” Once one begins to understand these “works of the flesh,” these things become more obvious.

- Pastor Jimmy Swaggart

​

 

[PeterJens]

ok peter.

I said you opened a post (you just proved me right) are you going to say your sorry, you made a mistake, repent. Or continue to prove yourself right at all cost. In detriment to yourself (because you prove what people say about you is true)

ps. Dec 15? hmm,, I did not even know about that one, so you had more?? That makes me more right..

do you have any humility peter. now would be a great time to show it

I apologise EG - I have opened threads to discuss HG in the past but not recently.
I assumed you were referring to the last few days, but silly me.

But I suppose this is a crime to you.

And you idea about being right. I am always interested in truth and what is right,
it is part of our faith. I thought you also were commited to this as well.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I apologise EG - I have opened threads to discuss HG in the past but not recently.
I assumed you were referring to the last few days, but silly me.

But I suppose this is a crime to you.

And you idea about being right. I am always interested in truth and what is right,
it is part of our faith. I thought you also were commited to this as well.

Thank you Peter. Apology accepted..

and yes, I am commited to truth.

 

[PeterJens]

I have to say as a comment, does it matter who has said what and which
position they have taken in the past?

What I find interesting among christians is often they are not that concerned
about the ethics behind faith and the heart state, which is why I oppose HG
which appears to miss this completely.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have to say as a comment, does it matter who has said what and which
position they have taken in the past?

What I find interesting among christians is often they are not that concerned
about the ethics behind faith and the heart state, which is why I oppose HG
which appears to miss this completely.

It mattered, Because it is the same people who keep bringing this up..

No one else seems to have a vendetta to keep opening these threads. Why is this?

ps. HG people are very concerned with ethics and the heart state, So you just slandered them again (SMH)

 

[LaurenTM]

Any suggested way of victory other than the Cross of Christ, such as the “Purpose Driven Life,” the “Government of Twelve,” the “Word of Faith,” or “Denominationalism,” etc., constitutes idolatry. In effect, it is the same as Old Testament times, when Israel would begin to worship idols instead of Jehovah. To be sure, Israel actually referred to these idols as Jehovah; but the Lord definitely did not look at it in the same manner! And neither does He look any differently at modern idolatry!
Furthermore, all of this constitutes “heresies,” in which the modern Church abounds.

Let me say it more clearly:
Any doctrine, way, scheme, or direction made up by men, which means it is devised by men and not by God, is constituted by the Lord as “heresy,” which is a “work of the flesh.” Let me say it again, and because it is so very, very important! Any way other than “Christ and Him Crucified” is, in the eyes of God, “heresy.” Once one begins to understand these “works of the flesh,” these things become more obvious.

- Pastor Jimmy Swaggart​

Swaggart?

seriously?

 

[PeterJens]

I have been reading pilgrims progress last night.
The whole story line is about the progress of transformation as the pilgrim makes
his way to the celestial palace.

The discussion is about what the way and the path actually are.
This contrasts radically with JP and HG, and represents a valid alternative to
the dialogue.

It is also obvious many subjects are not discussed just absorbed within this
movement, which lead to some unbiblical conclusions. This is why I appreciate
these interactions to tease them out.

But on this walk those in HG believe it is the only way and the rest of us are
failed believers or not believers at all. This is not suprisingly quite condescending
and judgemental as a way of approaching people.

 

[Grace777x70]

Any suggested way of victory other than the Cross of Christ, such as the “Purpose Driven Life,” the “Government of Twelve,” the “Word of Faith,” or “Denominationalism,” etc., constitutes idolatry. In effect, it is the same as Old Testament times, when Israel would begin to worship idols instead of Jehovah. To be sure, Israel actually referred to these idols as Jehovah; but the Lord definitely did not look at it in the same manner! And neither does He look any differently at modern idolatry!
Furthermore, all of this constitutes “heresies,” in which the modern Church abounds.

Let me say it more clearly:
Any doctrine, way, scheme, or direction made up by men, which means it is devised by men and not by God, is constituted by the Lord as “heresy,” which is a “work of the flesh.” Let me say it again, and because it is so very, very important! Any way other than “Christ and Him Crucified” is, in the eyes of God, “heresy.” Once one begins to understand these “works of the flesh,” these things become more obvious.

- Pastor Jimmy Swaggart​

There is a lot more to the Christian life after the cross. After coming to the cross where we have been crucified with Christ - then we come to being resurrected with Christ.

To stay at the cross only is to nullify the resurrection life of Christ that is in us believers. Then there is another step which is that have been seated with Christ at the right hand of the Father.

The cross of Christ is crucial in order to understand that we have died with Christ with Him and that He has paid for our sins with His blood.


Paul said that he didn't want to know anything about them other them viewed through the lens of the cross and all that means for believers. He boasted in the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ in himself and in others as well.

1 Corinthians 2:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.


Galatians 6:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

The cross of Christ made it possible for the new creation in Christ to come forth and it is by this new creation in Christ that our union with Christ is - we are created in righteousness and holiness.

But to "live" at the cross is not biblical as we are to "live" in the reality of all that Christ has done for us. The cross is a symbol of "death" and we have all died in Christ. We need to be grounded in the knowledge of our co-death with Christ. This stops a lot of works-based salvation type of mindsets from being created.

We have died on the cross with Christ but now we live in Him because we are also resurrected with Him and we are seated with Him.

 

[Jimbone]

See Grace777x70 we have talked enough and listened to each other enough to kind of see each others perspective. I agree with so very much of what you say and absolutely believe you are a saved and transformed brother in Christ. I really do and can understand how you are coming at this thing and why it makes sense to you see it, and I agree with what you are saying. I also feel that you have done the same thing with me and honestly feel you try to with everyone you can. You are a very caring and accepting person and I honestly admire you for it to be honest and truly hope I get more so as I walk with Him, but we both have our reasons why we have come to these conclusions, the biggest differences seem to come when addressing the teachings of other men.

See when you and I talk and get to know each other we can understand each other on a deeper level than, "you accept "his" teachings", and lets be honest the "you don't accept "his" teachings" position is the exact same thing. You two are split because of a man's teachings bottom line. I feel we need to do more talking person to person if we can. These things are very important, but loving each other is more important, and if you absolutely just can't come together, well worry because forgiveness is kind of important to God, and just go your separate ways because this constant clashing the same way just does what but feed egos and waste at least some time we could better serve our God doing. Right?

All that said I do really love you brother even if we don't agree on some teachers, we can talk about that while we come together in Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Any suggested way of victory other than the Cross of Christ, such as the “Purpose Driven Life,” the “Government of Twelve,” the “Word of Faith,” or “Denominationalism,” etc., constitutes idolatry. In effect, it is the same as Old Testament times, when Israel would begin to worship idols instead of Jehovah. To be sure, Israel actually referred to these idols as Jehovah; but the Lord definitely did not look at it in the same manner! And neither does He look any differently at modern idolatry!
Furthermore, all of this constitutes “heresies,” in which the modern Church abounds.

Let me say it more clearly:
Any doctrine, way, scheme, or direction made up by men, which means it is devised by men and not by God, is constituted by the Lord as “heresy,” which is a “work of the flesh.” Let me say it again, and because it is so very, very important! Any way other than “Christ and Him Crucified” is, in the eyes of God, “heresy.” Once one begins to understand these “works of the flesh,” these things become more obvious.

- Pastor Jimmy Swaggart​

The purpose driven life is written to people who have been saved, and not to tell people how to get saved.. So please you may want to study what you post..

 

[Grace777x70]

See Grace777x70 we have talked enough and listened to each other enough to kind of see each others perspective. I agree with so very much of what you say and absolutely believe you are a saved and transformed brother in Christ. I really do and can understand how you are coming at this thing and why it makes sense to you see it, and I agree with what you are saying. I also feel that you have done the same thing with me and honestly feel you try to with everyone you can. You are a very caring and accepting person and I honestly admire you for it to be honest and truly hope I get more so as I walk with Him, but we both have our reasons why we have come to these conclusions, the biggest differences seem to come when addressing the teachings of other men.

See when you and I talk and get to know each other we can understand each other on a deeper level than, "you accept "his" teachings", and lets be honest the "you don't accept "his" teachings" position is the exact same thing. You two are split because of a man's teachings bottom line. I feel we need to do more talking person to person if we can. These things are very important, but loving each other is more important, and if you absolutely just can't come together, well worry because forgiveness is kind of important to God, and just go your separate ways because this constant clashing the same way just does what but feed egos and waste at least some time we could better serve our God doing. Right?

All that said I do really love you brother even if we don't agree on some teachers, we can talk about that while we come together in Christ.

I agree...well said!

Isn't it a blessing that we are not biting at one another and calling each other a heretic and false teacher ..etc ?

We can have a different "spirit" towards each other in the body of Christ which serves to honor each other and to bless each other. You exemplify that Christ-like attitude.

It's ok to agree to disagree. We only now in part and we need each other to grow in the Lord...All is well...

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

There is a lot more to the Christian life after the cross. After coming to the cross where we have been crucified with Christ - then we come to being resurrected with Christ.

To stay at the cross only is to nullify the resurrection life of Christ that is in us believers. Then there is another step which is that have been seated with Christ at the right hand of the Father.

The cross of Christ is crucial in order to understand that we have died with Christ with Him and that He has paid for our sins with His blood.


Paul said that he didn't want to know anything about them other them viewed through the lens of the cross and all that means for believers. He boasted in the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ in himself and in others as well.

1 Corinthians 2:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.


Galatians 6:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

The cross of Christ made it possible for the new creation in Christ to come forth and it is by this new creation in Christ that our union with Christ is - we are created in righteousness and holiness.

But to "live" at the cross is not biblical as we are to "live" in the reality of all that Christ has done for us. The cross is a symbol of "death" and we have all died in Christ. We need to be grounded in the knowledge of our co-death with Christ. This stops a lot of works-based salvation type of mindsets from being created.

We have died on the cross with Christ but now we live in Him because we are also resurrected with Him and we are seated with Him.

Paul said: “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin (the sin nature), that Grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, who are dead to sin (dead to the sin nature), live any longer therein?” (Rom. 6:1-2).​

These Passages let us know that sin, i.e., “the sin nature,” is the problem. While Preachers might try to say that this, or that, or something else is the problem, the Holy Spirit tells us that “sin” is the problem. It might be a sin of commission or a sin of omission, but, to be sure, sin is the problem.​

He then tells us that the only remedy for sin, the only solution for sin, the only answer to sin, is the Cross of Christ. In other words, the Holy Spirit through Paul takes the Believer straight to the Cross. Remember, Paul is not speaking here to unbelievers, but rather to Believers. As we attempt to live for God, and I mean live for God properly, this tells us that we must ever understand that it is the Cross of Christ where we must begin, and where we must end. There is nothing after the Cross of Christ, because there needs to be nothing after the Cross of Christ.

Paul said, “Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? “Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection” (Rom. 6:3-5).​

Now let’s examine these same Passages from THE EXPOSITOR’S STUDY BIBLE.
“Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ (plainly says that this Baptism is into Christ and not water [I Cor. 1:17; 12:13; Gal. 3:28-29; Eph. 4:5; Col. 2:11-13]) were baptized into His Death? (When Christ died on the Cross, in the Mind of God, we died with Him; in other words, He became our Substitute, and our identification with Him in His Death gives us all the benefits for which He died; the idea is that He did it all for us!)

“Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death (not only did we die with Him, but we were buried with Him as well, which means that all the sin and transgression of the past were buried; when they put Him in the Tomb, they put all of our sins into that Tomb as well): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (we died with Him, we were buried with Him, and His Resurrection was our Resurrection to a “Newness of Life”).

“For if we have been planted together (with Christ) in the likeness of His death (Paul proclaims the Cross as the instrument through which all Blessings come; consequently, the Cross must ever be the object of our Faith, which gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work within our lives), we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection.” (We can have the “likeness of His Resurrection,” i.e., “live this Resurrection Life,” only as long as we understand the “likeness of His Death,” which refers to the Cross as the means by which all of this is done.)

- Pastor Jimmy Swaggart

​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul said: “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin (the sin nature), that Grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, who are dead to sin (dead to the sin nature), live any longer therein?” (Rom. 6:1-2).​

These Passages let us know that sin, i.e., “the sin nature,” is the problem. While Preachers might try to say that this, or that, or something else is the problem, the Holy Spirit tells us that “sin” is the problem. It might be a sin of commission or a sin of omission, but, to be sure, sin is the problem.​

He then tells us that the only remedy for sin, the only solution for sin, the only answer to sin, is the Cross of Christ. In other words, the Holy Spirit through Paul takes the Believer straight to the Cross. Remember, Paul is not speaking here to unbelievers, but rather to Believers. As we attempt to live for God, and I mean live for God properly, this tells us that we must ever understand that it is the Cross of Christ where we must begin, and where we must end. There is nothing after the Cross of Christ, because there needs to be nothing after the Cross of Christ.
Paul said, “Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? “Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection” (Rom. 6:3-5).​

Now let’s examine these same Passages from THE EXPOSITOR’S STUDY BIBLE.
“Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ (plainly says that this Baptism is into Christ and not water [I Cor. 1:17; 12:13; Gal. 3:28-29; Eph. 4:5; Col. 2:11-13]) were baptized into His Death? (When Christ died on the Cross, in the Mind of God, we died with Him; in other words, He became our Substitute, and our identification with Him in His Death gives us all the benefits for which He died; the idea is that He did it all for us!)

“Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death (not only did we die with Him, but we were buried with Him as well, which means that all the sin and transgression of the past were buried; when they put Him in the Tomb, they put all of our sins into that Tomb as well): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (we died with Him, we were buried with Him, and His Resurrection was our Resurrection to a “Newness of Life”).

“For if we have been planted together (with Christ) in the likeness of His death (Paul proclaims the Cross as the instrument through which all Blessings come; consequently, the Cross must ever be the object of our Faith, which gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work within our lives), we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection.” (We can have the “likeness of His Resurrection,” i.e., “live this Resurrection Life,” only as long as we understand the “likeness of His Death,” which refers to the Cross as the means by which all of this is done.)

- Pastor Jimmy Swaggart

​

Actually I would disagree

Sin is not the issue, Sin is the result of the issue. it is the result of denying god and being forced to take care of self.

This issue is pride. The issue is we reject God, and thus are bound to take care of ourselves. No matter who we have to hurt to do it..

The issue is the heart.. The heart is wicked, and who can understand it.