This thread is to answer the accusation that the person who does not believe in “once saved always saved” must by definition also believe that works are then what keeps the Christian saved. I do not believe in OSAS, but am adamantly against the idea that works are what keep me saved or that salvation has to be earned or somehow kept by my good works.
You will notice that besides a few verses, I do not quote a lot of Scriptures. That is on purpose. I am giving my personal beliefs that I have come to from a study of Scripture, my own background, and other influences in my life. Believe me, I could “prooftext” my comments below with verses, but prefer to be honest that this is a summary of my personal beliefs.
What I am looking for on this thread? I want anyone and everyone to look at these ideas, tear them apart, tell me where you think they conflict with Scripture, tell me what you like, argue (is “dispute” a better word? with me and with others, etc. But let’s be civil, kind, fair, and agree to disagree (which we will need to do, I am sure Feel free to ask questions if you want me to explain something. It seemed there is much more I should say, but this is already much longer than I wanted.
I hope to be a better person and have a better theology once you are all done! (And thus to better understand and love my Lord!)
How does a person come to initial salvation (justification, or being born again)?
It happens by the grace of God through my response in faith. the grace of God is the beginning point and the ending point, and our response in faith is only the channel through which salvation comes. But if I do not exercise faith in the finished work of Christ I will never get saved - but to me that is not my work - the faith that I exercise is still the grace of God working in me - Ephesians says - I am His workmanship. When I got saved (born again) I had no doubts about the power of God being able to save me.
How does a person stay saved?
The way I got saved is exactly the same way I stay saved. It is by the grace of God through my response in faith. The grace of God is the beginning point and the ending point, and my response in faith is only the channel through which salvation persists. But if I do not continue to exercise faith in the finished work of Christ I will not stay saved - but to me that is not my work - the faith that I exercise is still the grace of God working in me - Ephesians says - I am His workmanship. When I got saved (born again) I had no doubts about the power of God being able to save me; I have no doubts about the power of God being able to keep me saved.
How and when are sins forgiven? (for the Christian)
This has been a journey for me. I grew up believing that God the Father (as a stern Judge!) marked down every sin I committed. (Let’s see - who really is the accuser of the brethren?!!!). My concept of God was quite warped.
Now I believe that the cross (the blood) of Jesus makes forgiveness available for those who are believing in Christ Jesus. In contrast to some that believe that at the new birth (justification) all sins past, present, and future are forgiven, I believe that at the new birth all past sins are forgiven. From that day on for the believer (those walking in the light - I John 1) the blood of Jesus Christ ongoingly cleanses us from each and every sin (I John 1:7). God does not count the number of my sins, does not condemn me when I fail, but he forgives and forgives, and forgives, and keeps on forgiving. As long as I am believing in Jesus Christ, I am forgiven of any sin I might commit at the very moment I commit it.
How is it possible to love one’s salvation?
Salvation can be lost if a person does not continue to believe in Jesus Christ as his personal Saviour. How often does this happen? In my opinion, not very often – I am happy to let God be the Judge in these matters! Many who believe in OSAS will say that many who appear to “backslide” were likely never saved to begin with: I agree with this sentiment. I feel that once a person really knows and understands and experiences salvation and the immense, deep love of my Jesus, it is not just something that will get easily thrown aside!
But having said that, I do stand adamantly against the idea that once a person is saved, there is no possibility of being lost. I think the dividing line is Scripture is that the one who believes is saved, and the one who does not believe is not saved..
How does a person “stop believing”? I don’t know and I never intend to stop believing! The love of my Saviour that I experience day by day is so great that (by the grace of God) I will not step aside! There is no other place of refuge I could turn to in this dark evil world: “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life, and we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the Living God” (John 6:68,69). Yet I also know that if I am honest, I have the moral capability to turn my back on Jesus Christ and to stop believing. The “believing” I am talking about here is not a surface “knowledge of the facts” but is a much deeper “depending and leaning on for life”.
I do know of at least one specific person who clearly believed (at least it so seemed to me) in Jesus, but now is an avowed agnostic. Was he saved or not? I will not be the Judge. Is he saved now? He is by his own admission not believing and not wanting to believe in Jesus. Yet still I will not judge.
Please Note: I am not on this thread wanting or trying to disprove OSAS - that can be argued elsewhere. I mention OSAS above several times in order to differentiate what I believe from OSAS. I prefer to try to keep the discussions to debating the ideas above. HA! I know having said that, that the two are so intwertwined that we need to discuss both. That's OK -- but I just want it to be clear that this thread is not about trying to disprove OSAS.
You will notice that besides a few verses, I do not quote a lot of Scriptures. That is on purpose. I am giving my personal beliefs that I have come to from a study of Scripture, my own background, and other influences in my life. Believe me, I could “prooftext” my comments below with verses, but prefer to be honest that this is a summary of my personal beliefs.
What I am looking for on this thread? I want anyone and everyone to look at these ideas, tear them apart, tell me where you think they conflict with Scripture, tell me what you like, argue (is “dispute” a better word? with me and with others, etc. But let’s be civil, kind, fair, and agree to disagree (which we will need to do, I am sure Feel free to ask questions if you want me to explain something. It seemed there is much more I should say, but this is already much longer than I wanted.
I hope to be a better person and have a better theology once you are all done! (And thus to better understand and love my Lord!)
How does a person come to initial salvation (justification, or being born again)?
It happens by the grace of God through my response in faith. the grace of God is the beginning point and the ending point, and our response in faith is only the channel through which salvation comes. But if I do not exercise faith in the finished work of Christ I will never get saved - but to me that is not my work - the faith that I exercise is still the grace of God working in me - Ephesians says - I am His workmanship. When I got saved (born again) I had no doubts about the power of God being able to save me.
How does a person stay saved?
The way I got saved is exactly the same way I stay saved. It is by the grace of God through my response in faith. The grace of God is the beginning point and the ending point, and my response in faith is only the channel through which salvation persists. But if I do not continue to exercise faith in the finished work of Christ I will not stay saved - but to me that is not my work - the faith that I exercise is still the grace of God working in me - Ephesians says - I am His workmanship. When I got saved (born again) I had no doubts about the power of God being able to save me; I have no doubts about the power of God being able to keep me saved.
How and when are sins forgiven? (for the Christian)
This has been a journey for me. I grew up believing that God the Father (as a stern Judge!) marked down every sin I committed. (Let’s see - who really is the accuser of the brethren?!!!). My concept of God was quite warped.
Now I believe that the cross (the blood) of Jesus makes forgiveness available for those who are believing in Christ Jesus. In contrast to some that believe that at the new birth (justification) all sins past, present, and future are forgiven, I believe that at the new birth all past sins are forgiven. From that day on for the believer (those walking in the light - I John 1) the blood of Jesus Christ ongoingly cleanses us from each and every sin (I John 1:7). God does not count the number of my sins, does not condemn me when I fail, but he forgives and forgives, and forgives, and keeps on forgiving. As long as I am believing in Jesus Christ, I am forgiven of any sin I might commit at the very moment I commit it.
How is it possible to love one’s salvation?
Salvation can be lost if a person does not continue to believe in Jesus Christ as his personal Saviour. How often does this happen? In my opinion, not very often – I am happy to let God be the Judge in these matters! Many who believe in OSAS will say that many who appear to “backslide” were likely never saved to begin with: I agree with this sentiment. I feel that once a person really knows and understands and experiences salvation and the immense, deep love of my Jesus, it is not just something that will get easily thrown aside!
But having said that, I do stand adamantly against the idea that once a person is saved, there is no possibility of being lost. I think the dividing line is Scripture is that the one who believes is saved, and the one who does not believe is not saved..
How does a person “stop believing”? I don’t know and I never intend to stop believing! The love of my Saviour that I experience day by day is so great that (by the grace of God) I will not step aside! There is no other place of refuge I could turn to in this dark evil world: “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life, and we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the Living God” (John 6:68,69). Yet I also know that if I am honest, I have the moral capability to turn my back on Jesus Christ and to stop believing. The “believing” I am talking about here is not a surface “knowledge of the facts” but is a much deeper “depending and leaning on for life”.
I do know of at least one specific person who clearly believed (at least it so seemed to me) in Jesus, but now is an avowed agnostic. Was he saved or not? I will not be the Judge. Is he saved now? He is by his own admission not believing and not wanting to believe in Jesus. Yet still I will not judge.
Please Note: I am not on this thread wanting or trying to disprove OSAS - that can be argued elsewhere. I mention OSAS above several times in order to differentiate what I believe from OSAS. I prefer to try to keep the discussions to debating the ideas above. HA! I know having said that, that the two are so intwertwined that we need to discuss both. That's OK -- but I just want it to be clear that this thread is not about trying to disprove OSAS.
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