The Real Truth About Joseph Prince!

notuptome · Oct 20, 2016

Leave the visions to the professionals.

What you describe is worldly repentance. You describe a repentance that can be repented of and return to the miry clay from which God has provided deliverance.

Godly repentance does not depend on me. Godly repentance is repentance that can never go back but only go forward to the day of redemption.

A butterfly no longer consumes and is sustained by the same food as when he was a caterpillar.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

PeterJens · Oct 20, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

garbage talk - sounds like someone is getting angry. And rubbish is something you cannot answer
because it is too jumbled. But the argument is simple, stated in one sentence and 100% true
So this statement is lying and angry, both of which are sins against another believer, or so you claim.

complete lie - lies are now put into catagories and this is a complete lie. The problem is you use other
people to often declare you beliefs, their words and when they fail, you say, I never said that.
It is a tactic of someone who has no abilities themselves to argue or express properly their own positions
but would rather hide behind others. I suggest you come out in the open and stop using others to
speak on your behalf, or you are just a deceiver and liar yourself, not interested in finding truth just
presenting provocative speakers.

And this statement is literally exposing your malice and inability to answer the positions provided.
You claim to be sweetness and light, but in reality only to those who are prospective converts.
The rest get propoganda and slander and lies. Not the Holy Spirit being shown at all.

Grace777x70 · Oct 20, 2016

No. What it is in reality is that it is tiresome to have to repeat the same things over and over again and yet people still say " what they perceive" you are saying.

So, if people want to slander and exhibit their malice towards other that believe in a subject a little differently than they do and be deceitful in what they post - then I say let them continue this behavior because we can't stop them nor legislate godly behavior. Leave them in the Lord's hands and just bless them and pray for them.

Here is a great post from JGIG from another post that states what is happening sometimes.

Quote:

This is a really good point: "From the responses all over this forum, it is plain to see that people do not understand grace; therefore they pick apart anything they view as a threat to their understanding as though it were an attack on the gospel itself."

To a person, I can confidently say that each one who has come out swinging hard against so-called 'Hyper-Grace' cannot accurately articulate what the Grace position actually is.

This includes the theologian Dr. Michael Brown, the one who coined the term, 'Hyper-Grace', with whom I've conversed online 3 or 4 times.

When the misrepresentations that he was promulgating online were pointed out to him, using quotes from his book and then presented with what 'Hyper Gracers' actually teach, he suddenly became very busy and could not/would not discuss the issues further.

CONSISTENTLY we see statements given as facts about Grace that we do not believe nor do we teach. Furthermore, those who rail against us 'quote' teachers, but only what they've heard others who are against those teachers say those teachers have said, but won't go to the source to see what those teachers have actually said, claiming they 'don't have time for that'. Well if you don't have time to check your sources, bow out. You have NO business spreading inaccuracies.

I've done the dance against true heresy - the modern Judaizers of the Hebrew Roots Movement. I have most of an entire site addressing the false beliefs of the HRM, and when refuting a false belief, not only do I make sure that I have a thorough understanding of what they actually believe from many sources within the movement, but I also make sure to quote, providing links and context to the reader to those sources so that they may consider the evidence and decide for themselves. That is not happening here.

Grace777x70 addresses one tactic used and put it this way so well in another thread, regarding the straw-man approach:

It's like some saying "The sky is blue...isn't it lovely?"...instead someone comes and says "What?..you are a false teacher ..the sky is not green...everyone knows it's blue...."

That happens a LOT in this debate, indicating that those who are heresy hunting the Grace of God don't really understand the issue. I read this quote earlier today from an article posted on FB:

"As any debate club veteran knows, if you can't make your opponent's argument for them, you don't truly grasp the issue." (source)

I have tons more respect for someone who understands the issues and simply disagrees, but much less respect for those who demagogue without understanding simply to reinforce their position. When someone demagogues, they show that their penchant is more for their position than for what is TRUE.

-JGIG

UnQUOTE:

Let's Take a Deeper Look at this Hyper Stuff

PeterJens · Oct 20, 2016

notuptome said:

I like your catagory of repentance. Repentance is repentance. It is about relationship and
causing hurt and trying to resolve it.

Now in the Lords prayer, forgive us as we forgive others, this is actually very worldly.

So Jesus is linking our hurts, repentance and forgiveness in relationships with our relationship
with God. So I suggest you listen to Jesus and what He is saying and not catagorise what
is worldly repentance and what is heavenly.

The real difference is God truly forgives and changes us, and He can heal and restore us to
a right relationship and we are very poor at getting anywhere close to this.

Stephen63 · Oct 20, 2016

Joseph Prince on repentance reviewed by Roger Sapp.mp4

[video=youtube;U4uQjND-rFg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4uQjND-rFg[/video]

PeterJens · Oct 20, 2016

Grace777 teaches us all a very important lesson, some have no clue what is being
said but like a machine repeat the same claptrap, but vast paragraphs of it.

If you want to refute something you have to refute it.
And we will continually say the same criticism that cannot be answered because it is
true, but hey, as long as they put forward heresy we will oppose it. Job done.

Grace777x70 · Oct 20, 2016

The sin of unbelief is the sin that is talked about in the book of Hebrews. Check out Hebrews chapter 3 and 4.. dead works are works that we do to appease our consciences - like going to church, praying, serving in the church.....etc.

These are all good things within themselves but can be subtle areas of actual unbelief in what Christ has done in His sacrifice and so we embarking on performing religious "DEAD WORKS".

Hebrews 9:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

HisHolly · Oct 20, 2016

The accuser of the brethren is before the Lord day and night..
No one born of God could continually jab at the body like this. Don't you know you're destroying someone Jesus came to save?? We are made in their image and likeness yet you tear at people like a rabid animal.. This absolutely blows my mind.. I do hope people do not see even a hint of this in me, if so I have work to do.. This is embarrassing

PeterJens · Oct 20, 2016

mikeys4grace said:

Marriage is like walking into a bear pit. Unless you know a lot about yourself and
your partner, you are not going to survive.

When Jesus said we were made to have one wife, he was asked,

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”
Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.
Matt 19:8-11

For me wife, kids, work has been more like a commando course than the idilic ride the films
try and portray. Getting out alive the other side is always a question.

PeterJens · Oct 20, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Grace777 is saying we are committing the sin of unbelief by opposing his heresy.
In his book that is dooming us to hell. Now this is the farce logic here.

We hold people should properly repent of sin, confess it and believe in Christ for forgiveness of sin.

He has a problem with this and calls it religion, empty, wrong. Then simply he is not a christian.
So ofcourse we have unbelief in his version of faith, because it is not christian. It does not
get more fundamental than that. Now he sincerely believes God lead him to this place and this
theology, but personal conviction does not define the faith, Gods word does.

So he is a voice in the wind, driven by his own anti-legalistics needs, which are being exploited
by whatever forces he is tuning into which have lots of anger and malice, as he is so keen to
project on to others.

And unfortunatley Holly, we are called to expose and bring out these kinds of heresy and talk about
them so we can disassociate ourselves from the teaching and its heresies.

PeterJens · Oct 20, 2016

HisHolly said:

HisHolly - It is hard to say this, but everything HG people share is tearing down good bible believing
people and simple following of Christ. They accuse normal christians of being empty sinful people
who do everything for the wrong reasons.

And the sign they have for this ministry? These people are religious while they are not.
The problem is we are called to confront sin, not supposed failure, or invented problems of the past
projected on to others. So everyone finds themselves accused of malice, hatred, evil, anti-christ,
legalist language.

So yes get embarrassed but at Grace777 and the others, who do the work of the accuser with no
foundation, and are happy to upset believers with their false accusations.

notuptome · Oct 20, 2016

Billyd said:

They will no longer endure sound doctrine. They have been allured by the pleasures of this world for a season. Bitterness lies ahead.

Wish I had better news for you but holiness and purity are no longer desired qualities. Entertainment is all the rage, the wide path is the path well trodden.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

PinkDiamond · Oct 20, 2016

Billyd said:

That is a good observation. I'm not really young, but I fit into the age range you described. I think I have an understanding why so many my age who grew up in Christian homes aren't really committed anymore. I really think the issue is not denominaton specific. Personally, I don't really see much of a difference between most denominations other than what they believe on paper. The problem I think is that there is a real lack of reality and depth in many churches. And, most young people need something real, powerful, and different from what secular society provides. I think too often churches try to make the gospel more palatable to youth by presenting it in such a fashion that it seems not that different from what they already live and can experience in the world. In an attempt to make the gospel more appealing and easier to swallow it accomplished the very opposite. I think that Christ's message was radical and required a total life commitment. It wasn't something you added to your life. It became your life. I think that younger people can already experience the best "excitement" and fun by living a totally secular lifestyle. They don't really need a religion that adds to their already self fulfilled life. Those that have a desire for something deeper are looking for a faith to challenge them and a cause to take up. You are going to get more interest if you are offering a gospel that is so entirely different from what society is offering.

Stephen63 · Oct 20, 2016

Billyd said:

Judges 2 8Then Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the LORD, died at the age of one hundred and ten. 9And they buried him in the territory of his inheritance in Timnath-heres, in the hill country of Ephraim, north of Mount Gaash. 10All that generation also were gathered to their fathers; and there arose another generation after them who did not know the LORD, nor yet the work which He had done for Israel.

It's generational decline. It happened throughout the OT. When a good king took the throne, there would be revival of the people back to the Lord. But soon afterward the next generation would begin a slow slide backward, & so on & so forth.

Now, look at where we are today..... Good is being called bad, bad being called good, & no righteous political leader in sight to rule in righteousness & bring restoration. This slide is the last one, the great falling away. For many, the only sign they see of this is their own generation after them apostacizing. But no wonder, when youth come to church to play & eat, & no one teaches them about salvation. We give them concerts, playtime, & take them to all kinds of social events, when the answer to their problems is carried to church every Sunday in their hand.

King Josiah's reign brought revival because the first thing he did was cleanse the Temple, & when they did, the priests "discovered" the scrolls of the Law & read them to him.

Today's church needs to clean off their Bibles & "discover" what Jesus did for them.

eph610 · Oct 20, 2016

Stephen63 said:

No the decline is because religion is telling them about God and rules and not talking to them about Jesus and relationship...

It has nothing to do with generational decline...Today's young adults do not want religion they want relationship with Jesus that is real and authentic, they demand transparent leaders in their churches...their tires go flat after about 40 minutes of teaching and preaching, they are all about real social justice and want to reach the lost, they want to be heard in services and events....They do not believe serving is handing out water bottles and bulletins, they believe ministry is on their knees with the person that needs Jesus....

This age group is dominated by perception based reality....mainly because of social media and moral relativism....
This is the key to understanding how they operate and their worldviews..

they are reachable if you are transparent with them. They despise hypocrites and organized religion....they love worship and true and Biblical moves of the Spirit....the hold elders accountable and it often times comes across to older aged leaders as rebellion but it is not...they question everything in the search to see if it is relevant to them...the do not "tithe" they "give" and when they give it is usually cheerfully and generously....they recognize false anointing quickly and will never return if they see it, taste it, smell it or are exposed to it....they will as their cultural worldview has taught them review you, blast you on social media and warn others to stay away...not to be mean spirited, but because you lied to them......and that is how they communicate in their world...

Be prepared and have your people in the church be prepared for the lost of this generation, they have zero to little Bible worldview...often times the men grew up without a Dad, the girls with no mother or a step mother as young as she is and a Dad or step dad that thinks love is having sex with them...Be prepared that they come from blended families and sometimes blended 2-4 times and that is norm in the world, and your religious opinions on the matter do more harm then good...not many of them understand love without being physical, likewise don't be shocked if they tell you that adultery is defined only actual sexual intercourse and not other sexual things, like oral sex with someone not their partner or not, etc. Occasional social drinking is not SIN to them either...

Be real with them as you disciple them and never be caught in a double standard or hypocrisy.....

Men in this age group cannot relate to a Pastor , if that Pastor is always talking about having been with God his whole life, been married to one wife and had a normal family with no divorce or blended sibling......they don't get a guy in a suit ever....
They don't get a Pastor in the suit who is begging for tithes either and they flat out will not give...

Most importantly this age groups understands the difference between real deal Church religious driven traditions people think is Bible or Church....they can smell man made tradition faster than a bloodhound a serial killer...and they will not come back...

They are waiting for us, but we must change our methods, but never compromise the message and they don't ask you to ever compromise what the real truth is...they also want discipleship not cute little small groups that eat and chat and are nothing more than little religious cliques and no real spiritual growth is displayed or taught...

Billyd · Oct 20, 2016

Stephen63 said:

You have identified the problem. Now, how are we going to get our age group (18-40) to listen to the word, let alone read it? My friend these are the people who are raising up the next generation. They are not bringing up their children in the way of the lord.

We have spent the better part of at least the last six months debating Joseph Prince. From what I see, even though he hits my "yuck" button, he is reaching many with the Gospel, and many are coming to know the Lord. Thank God for his ministry. I pray that God will continue to bless it.

Maybe rather than looking for things that he is doing wrong, we should look at his success and adapt it to our own ministry.

InSpiritInTruth · Oct 20, 2016

Stephen63 said:

I want to show this false teaching in his followers as well, notice what they say....

Do you see this attempt at a "disassociated identity" brain washing tactic that is going on with this false doctrine of devils? They are told to ignore their own sins and evil thoughts and desires because that is not who they truly are, or so that is what they have been falsely taught by this deceiver Joseph Prince as shown in the video. They try to make a total disconnect between their own sinful actions and desires by just "imagining" themselves to be righteous, holy and perfect like Jesus, when in fact they are far from it. They are basically taught to think of yourself as something you really are not.

This is also why JP also teaches this--->>>

There is no true conversion in this doctrine, which is why they have to "imagine" themselves as righteous, but the proof of their own ongoing sins proves themselves to be reprobates and phonies.

eph610 · Oct 20, 2016

PinkDiamond said:

That is a good observation. I'm not really young, but I fit into the age range you described. I think I have an understanding why so many my age who grew up in Christian homes aren't really committed anymore. I really think the issue is not denominaton specific. Personally, I don't really see much of a difference between most denominations other than what they believe on paper. The problem I think is that there is a real lack of reality and depth in many churches. And, most young people need something real, powerful, and different from what secular society provides. I think too often churches try to make the gospel more palatable to youth by presenting it in such a fashion that it seems not that different from what they already live and can experience in the world. In an attempt to make the gospel more appealing and easier to swallow it accomplished the very opposite. I think that Christ's message was radical and required a total life commitment. It wasn't something you added to your life. It became your life. I think that younger people can already experience the best "excitement" and fun by living a totally secular lifestyle. They don't really need a religion that adds to their already self fulfilled life. Those that have a desire for something deeper are looking for a faith to challenge them and a cause to take up. You are going to get more interest if you are offering a gospel that is so entirely different from what society is offering.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PinkDiamond again.

Good stuff pink!

BenFTW · Oct 20, 2016

Billyd said:

The world sees Christianity as a religion of do's and don'ts. It sees Christianity as just another religion with rules and regulations. This is, of course, endorsed by the people opposing Grace777x70 with their doctrines that deny many of the things Christ has already purchased with His blood (such as forgiveness and reconciliation to the Father).

The world doesn't need just another religion based upon morality. Yet, thats what message the world has received from the Church. You don't hear about His grace, His forgiveness, or being set free from sin from the mouths of unbelievers. You hear them speak of how Christians condemn them, hate them, and despise their very existence. How wrong could they be of what Christ would have us present? Salvation not condemnation. Liberty not slavery. A burden that is easy, a yoke that is light.

However, in come the legalists and their doctrines of self-righteousness masquerading as holiness. This alienates the young because they understand they cannot do as the Lord commands, but instead of understanding God's grace they are met with a stick that whips them and scolds them. They don't see a loving Father, but a tyrant of whom they better not fall short of.

How can you change it? "God's goodness is what leads men to repentance." Preach the Good News and truth of His grace that breaks sin's dominion. Preach of His everlasting love and that in Christ there is no condemnation. VValk as a son of God and in power, bringing glory to God. Shine!

Billyd · Oct 20, 2016

eph610 said:

No the decline is because religion is telling them about God and rules and not talking to them about Jesus and relationship...

It has nothing to do with generational decline...Today's young adults do not want religion they want relationship with Jesus that is real and authentic, they demand transparent leaders in their churches...their tires go flat after about 40 minutes of teaching and preaching, they are all about real social justice and want to reach the lost, they want to be heard in services and events....They do not believe serving is handing out water bottles and bulletins, they believe ministry is on their knees with the person that needs Jesus....

This age group is dominated by perception based reality....mainly because of social media and moral relativism....
This is the key to understanding how they operate and their worldviews..

they are reachable if you are transparent with them. They despise hypocrites and organized religion....they love worship and true and Biblical moves of the Spirit....the hold elders accountable and it often times comes across to older aged leaders as rebellion but it is not...they question everything in the search to see if it is relevant to them...the do not "tithe" they "give" and when they give it is usually cheerfully and generously....they recognize false anointing quickly and will never return if they see it, taste it, smell it or are exposed to it....they will as their cultural worldview has taught them review you, blast you on social media and warn others to stay away...not to be mean spirited, but because you lied to them......and that is how they communicate in their world...

Be prepared and have your people in the church be prepared for the lost of this generation, they have zero to little Bible worldview...often times the men grew up without a Dad, the girls with no mother or a step mother as young as she is and a Dad or step dad that thinks love is having sex with them...Be prepared that they come from blended families and sometimes blended 2-4 times and that is norm in the world, and your religious opinions on the matter do more harm then good...not many of them understand love without being physical, likewise don't be shocked if they tell you that adultery is defined only actual sexual intercourse and not other sexual things, like oral sex with someone not their partner or not, etc. Occasional social drinking is not SIN to them either...

Be real with them as you disciple them and never be caught in a double standard or hypocrisy.....

Men in this age group cannot relate to a Pastor , if that Pastor is always talking about having been with God his whole life, been married to one wife and had a normal family with no divorce or blended sibling......they don't get a guy in a suit ever....
They don't get a Pastor in the suit who is begging for tithes either and they flat out will not give...

Most importantly this age groups understands the difference between real deal Church religious driven traditions people think is Bible or Church....they can smell man made tradition faster than a bloodhound a serial killer...and they will not come back...

They are waiting for us, but we must change our methods, but never compromise the message and they don't ask you to ever compromise what the real truth is...they also want discipleship not cute little small groups that eat and chat and are nothing more than little religious cliques and no real spiritual growth is displayed or taught...

Excellent response.

Two things really stand out "Men in this age group" and "we must change our methods".

We have a broad spectrum of Christians here. What has worked for them?

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