How do we view heretic hunters websites that supposedly expose error?

[HisHolly]

There are 2 forces, motivations behind actions, God who longs to see repentance, satan who wants condemnation.. One for all in heaven, one for all in hell.. If what's spoken doesn't follow with or incorporate a leading to God, it's from satan.. what spirit are they addressing people in, that will tell you.. It's possible to be in error and not be a false teacher described in 2p2.. Again the spirit in operation will always be apparent..

 

[notuptome]

We have a perfect standard that never changes. We have the bible and Jesus Christ. We also have the Holy Spirit to guide us into the truth.

Schisms occur when we impress our view on the word of God instead of allowing Gods word to impress the image of Christ upon us. The doctrine of the Son is the same as the doctrine of the Father and the Holy Spirit makes that clear in the hearts of believers.

You cannot have a discussion with unbelievers about doctrine. They cannot hear doctrine. You must limit discussions with unbelievers to discussion about their need to be saved. The Holy Spirit will not minister theological astuteness to hearts that lack the light of Christ.

Unity finds it's foundation on like minds and hearts regarding Christ. Can't walk with Christ if He is not known to the soul.

Am 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Grace777x70]

I think the word heretic should be considered a swear word and be automatically bleeped.

I cannot help but think of the inquisition and all the terrible things they did to "heretics"

I agree...the word "heretic" comes from the KJV and it actually means one that is "divisive, factious" and the actual term has evolved to where we have now preconceived connotations associated with the use of the word.

Titus 3:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

We are to reject those that continue to cause divisions amongst us after asking them to stop.

In keeping with the OP and the meaning of the word "heretic" - do you see this "causing of divisions" as being the work of these heretic hunters?

This does not negate the preaching of the scriptures on the truth of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ nor the admonition to watch for true error that denies the work of Christ.

It is just how that preaching and teaching is done that maybe we need to address within ourselves as HisHolly pointed out.

 

[Demi777]

Well lets be honest now. Not everything is written in the bible. If everything was we would most likely need a whole library because alone all that Jesus did was so much they couldnt keep track of it all. It is indeed that some things are interpreted differently by other people. I believe that also depending on your calling you will have slightly different interpretations here and there anyways. Also as the body of Christ isnt just a leg it also is that I believe that only if we bring multiple interpretations together, we can get to the truth.
Ive been called a heretic and worse and I just look at the way Jesus was treated. Then out of the sudden I find that those who criticized me the most at the beginning, love and appreciate me the most now! lol
If I were to check every line that someone says if its in the bible, we all would be heretics. Now of course if something is clearly the right opposite of all that is written ( for example same sex marriage, woman cant be pastors, gifts have ceased,..) then I can say nope, re-study that you got that absolutely wrong.
We are all human and with that we all have errors. We are not Jesus. We can get help by the holy spirit but that doesnt mean that we will be the next bible dictionary. Look at how many preachers and scholars bring arguments who are all biblical and yet dont fit one another.. especially when it comes to the book of revelation.

 

[tourist]

Well lets be honest now. Not everything is written in the bible. If everything was we would most likely need a whole library because alone all that Jesus did was so much they couldnt keep track of it all.

The bible says exactly what you have written. This is a good observation on your part.

John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I look at it this way.

1. I would never go to a website which sole purpose is to out another person or group (your going to get a biased report.. which I would not trust)
2. If someone tries to tell me what someone else believes, I usually ignore it (Again, most likely biased plus, so I would want to find out for myself) at the most, I may investigate it, But has to be done with an open mind.

 

[eph610]

Acts 5.33-39

Gamaliel’s Counsel

[SUP]33 [/SUP]But when they heard this, they were cut to the quick and intended to kill them. [SUP]34 [/SUP]But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the Law, respected by all the people, stood up in the Council and gave orders to put the men outside for a short time. [SUP]35 [/SUP]And he said to them, “Men of Israel, take care what you propose to do with these men. [SUP]36 [/SUP]For some time ago Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a group of about four hundred men joined up with him. But he was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. [SUP]37 [/SUP]After this man, Judas of Galilee rose up in the days of the census and drew away some people after him; he too perished, and all those who followed him were scattered. [SUP]38 [/SUP]So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown; [SUP]39 [/SUP]but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God.”


Where does this fit at in our quests to root and hunt down false teachers?

I never have read anywhere in the Bible that we are to root out and hunt down false teachers....confronting them at a local level, like Paul admonishes us, is far different than the rooting out, hunting, killing, skinning, gutting and trophy placing garbage we see today posing as defending the faith and truth...

 

[wwjd_kilden]

I agree...the word "heretic" comes from the KJV and it actually means one that is "divisive, factious" and the actual term has evolved to where we have now preconceived connotations associated with the use of the word.

Titus 3:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

We are to reject those that continue to cause divisions amongst us after asking them to stop.

In keeping with the OP and the meaning of the word "heretic" - do you see this "causing of divisions" as being the work of these heretic hunters?

This does not negate the preaching of the scriptures on the truth of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ nor the admonition to watch for true error that denies the work of Christ.

It is just how that preaching and teaching is done that maybe we need to address within ourselves as HisHolly pointed out.

Well, by that definition most of the people who accuse others of being heretics are heretics themselves

 

[Grace777x70]

Well, by that definition most of the people who accuse others of being heretics are heretics themselves

LOL....exactly.....ironic isn't it?...

Even the Greek word for "heresies" means "division". Here it is used in some scripture.

1 Corinthians 11:18-19 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.


Paul says that this type of behavior is actually a work of the flesh. Here is the Greek word "heresies" used again.

Galatians 5:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


And here it is found in HisHolly's 2 Peter 2 which describes these false prophets and teachers. The whole point of them is to bring "divisions" amongst the body of Christ.

2 Peter 2:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

The word "damnable" means destructive. Have we ever seen when these heretic hunters are being spread around that they bring destruction to us with divisions and strife amongst us which is the fruit of this type of behavior?

Ironic indeed!

 

[HisHolly]

Bruce, refresh on 1 John 4:1-6.. I'd love to read your comments and how it pertains to the topic at hand.

 

[bluto]

Well, by that definition most of the people who accuse others of being heretics are heretics themselves

And by your defintion the Apostle Paul would be a heretic. Look what he says at 2 Timothy 2:15-18, "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth. Vs16, But avoid worldy and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, vs17, and their TALK will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, vs18, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and thus THEY HAVE UPSET THE FAITH OF SOME."

I'll be the first to admit there are real so-called heresy hunters out there just looking for trouble. But you can't paint with a broad brush that everybody is a heresy hunter. In fact, if you think about it the heretics and false teachers come to you. How you ask? By what they say and teach using their own words. Why is the Apostle Paul upset? Because he named two people that said the "resurrection had already taken place" which of course was not true.

Since Paul is upset about that what do you think he would say to those who deny the deity of Jesus Christ? Or some of the teachings of wof teachers that say Jesus Christ was born again in hell and He was also tortured there by Satan and his minions? I can give hundreds of examples of false teaching that not only upsets the faith of others but if believed can send you to hell. Wake up, it's a real world out there and be about the business of not only warning people but spreading the gospel to get others saved. I have written in my Bible from over 50 years ago at 2nd John, "Give me souls or I'll die." Our calling is other people.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Grace777x70]

Bruce, refresh on 1 John 4:1-6.. I'd love to read your comments and how it pertains to the topic at hand.

My thoughts on 1 John 4:1-6 are that John was dealing with the false teachers and prophets of his day of which the gnostic view was one of them - because they didn't believe Jesus came in the flesh. ( I believe this is when the gnostic views were just starting in their infancy and then by the 2nd and 3rd century it had grown more )

Here is an article from Christianity that talks to this idea.

Quote:

As this suggests, elements of Gnosticism existed before the advent of Christianity. Peter, Paul, John and the writer of Hebrews were probably addressing budding Gnostic ideas when they insisted that Jesus came in the flesh and was a man like us.

Unquote:

Gnosticism - AD 1-300 Church History Timeline

1 John 4:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

[SUP]3 [/SUP] and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

We are not to believe every spirit ( which is the human spirit in people or demonic spirits ). If someone denies that Jesus ahs come in the flesh or that Jesus is not from God - then that is not a spirit speaking truth.

Everyone that doesn't agree with the above statement is not of us John says in verse 6.

I don't see this applying to the heretic hunter division causing dynamic per se.

These heretic hunters could be born-again Christian and it is just that they are walking by their flesh as we saw that causing divisions - heresies are a work of the flesh and thinking they are doing the body of Christ a service by exposing people that disagree with their own views or a certain group's views on a subject.

Unless the heretic hunters deny that Jesus came in the flesh - I still count them as being in Christ.

That's all I have at the top of my head. How do you see it?

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

To a degree, I think that many characterize others as "Heretic Hunters" in error when they are truly giving a warning to the body of Christ to avoid doctrinal and spiritual teachers that are spots in our love feasts. There does have to be a balance in regard to our discussion of said false teachers. We cannot completely dismiss certain websites or individuals who call out false teachers because the warning can be very applicable and real.

If a teacher does teach anything contrary to scripture then yes, we should help other brethren avoid the error of that false teacher.

 

[Grace777x70]

To a degree, I think that many characterize others as "Heretic Hunters" in error when they are truly giving a warning to the body of Christ to avoid doctrinal and spiritual teachers that are spots in our love feasts. There does have to be a balance in regard to our discussion of said false teachers. We cannot completely dismiss certain websites or individuals who call out false teachers because the warning can be very applicable and real.

If a teacher does teach anything contrary to scripture then yes, we should help other brethren avoid the error of that false teacher.

I agree that we should be on the watch for false teachers...which is why I asked the questions in post #2 about how we are to assess their "opinions" made on these websites. There is a call for being on guard for false teachers.

The term "If a teacher does teach anything contrary to scripture " means different things to different people depending on our church upbringing and teachings/traditions.

Take speaking in tongues as an example - there are whole groups of people that say it is of the devil and yet there are others that pray in tongues every day to their Father.

Does, the fact that one group doesn't agree with the other group - make them both heretical or "in error" now? Is this a salvation issue where they are denying Christ?

 

[eph610]

My thoughts on 1 John 4:1-6 are that John was dealing with the false teachers and prophets of his day of which the gnostic view was one of them - because they didn't believe Jesus came in the flesh. ( I believe this is when the gnostic views were just starting in their infancy and then by the 2nd and 3rd century it had grown more )

Here is an article from Christianity that talks to this idea.

Quote:

As this suggests, elements of Gnosticism existed before the advent of Christianity. Peter, Paul, John and the writer of Hebrews were probably addressing budding Gnostic ideas when they insisted that Jesus came in the flesh and was a man like us.

Unquote:

Gnosticism - AD 1-300 Church History Timeline

1 John 4:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

[SUP]3 [/SUP] and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

We are not to believe every spirit ( which is the human spirit in people or demonic spirits ). If someone denies that Jesus ahs come in the flesh or that Jesus is not from God - then that is not a spirit speaking truth.

Everyone that doesn't agree with the above statement is not of us John says in verse 6.

I don't see this applying to the heretic hunter division causing dynamic per se.

These heretic hunters could be born-again Christian and it is just that they are walking by their flesh as we saw that causing divisions - heresies are a work of the flesh and thinking they are doing the body of Christ a service by exposing people that disagree with their own views or a certain group's views on a subject.

Unless the heretic hunters deny that Jesus came in the flesh - I still count them as being in Christ.

That's all I have at the top of my head. How do you see it?

This is the proper interpretation of the verses asked about.

I will add that this verse has been used wrongly by "deliverance" ministries that ask a supposed demonized person... by asking "did Jesus come in the flesh" and if they say no, then it is instant confirmation that the person has a demon...

That is very wrong and not found in scripture....The demons in the Gospels, knew Jesus came in the flesh....

I am not stating that ALL those that say NO Jesus did not come in the flesh are not deceived by the enemy, they just probably do not have a demon....being in doctrinal deception and demonized are 2 very different things...

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The administrators of internet websites have the right to post their opinion on specific people or on doctrinal issues that they disagree with.

Yes, and we being a guest on their site should also respect what doctrine they deem contrary to the gospel and words of Jesus Christ. Like the notice below---->>>>>

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/143507-hyper-grace-preachers-doctrine-cc.html

We (Christian Chat) believe that the doctrine of Hyper-Grace as preached by some "big name" pastors is just as much in error as the legalism pushed by others.

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes, and we being a guest on their site should also respect what doctrine they deem contrary to the gospel and words of Jesus Christ. Like the notice below---->>>>>

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/143507-hyper-grace-preachers-doctrine-cc.html

Please do not de-rail this thread. Do you have anything to add to the OP about how to assess these heretic hunters "opinions"?..Thanks.

 

[Joidevivre]

Well lets be honest now. Not everything is written in the bible. If everything was we would most likely need a whole library because alone all that Jesus did was so much they couldnt keep track of it all. It is indeed that some things are interpreted differently by other people. I believe that also depending on your calling you will have slightly different interpretations here and there anyways. Also as the body of Christ isnt just a leg it also is that I believe that only if we bring multiple interpretations together, we can get to the truth.
Ive been called a heretic and worse and I just look at the way Jesus was treated. Then out of the sudden I find that those who criticized me the most at the beginning, love and appreciate me the most now! lol
If I were to check every line that someone says if its in the bible, we all would be heretics. Now of course if something is clearly the right opposite of all that is written ( for example same sex marriage, woman cant be pastors, gifts have ceased,..) then I can say nope, re-study that you got that absolutely wrong.
We are all human and with that we all have errors. We are not Jesus. We can get help by the holy spirit but that doesnt mean that we will be the next bible dictionary. Look at how many preachers and scholars bring arguments who are all biblical and yet dont fit one another.. especially when it comes to the book of revelation.

Are you really only 16? Wow - you have a calling on your life.

 

[Demi777]

Are you really only 16? Wow - you have a calling on your life.

Yes indeed I am 16 and walking in the calling of God

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Please do not de-rail this thread. Do you have anything to add to the OP about how to assess these heretic hunters "opinions"?..Thanks.

I was commenting on this part of your OP--->>>>

The administrators of internet websites have the right to post their opinion on specific people or on doctrinal issues that they disagree with.

So what I said was on topic, as it pertained to your comment above contained in the OP.