the lie that Jesus ministry was law

[FreeNChrist]

“Even though we are now in faith, the heart is always ready to boast itself before God and say, ‘After all, I have… lived so well and done so much that surely He will take this into account.’ We… want to haggle with God to make Him regard our life, but it cannot be done. With men you may boast, ‘I have done the best I could… If anything is lacking, I will still try to make recompense,’ but when you come before God, leave all that boasting at home. Remember to appeal from justice into grace. But let anybody try this and he will see and experience how exceedingly hard and bitter a thing it is… I myself have been preaching and cultivating [grace] through reading and writing for almost twenty years and still feel the old clinging dirt of wanting to deal so with God that I may contribute something so that He will give me His grace in exchange for my holiness. I just cannot get it into my head that I should surrender myself completely to sheer grace, yet I know that this is what I should and must do.”


- Martin Luther

 

[followjesus]

i see nothing in these scriptures of the law of Moses over and done with. looks more like wishful thinking to me when the concept contradicts what Jesus and James taught. this theology only works when you ignore whats in plain sight, such as the questions i posted that you , umm, ignored.

what do you think Paul means when he says that we might bear fruit for the Most High? if your fruit is telling you to teach others the law has ended and Jesus teachings gives stern warnings to those that teach others not to follow the Law, you might want to re think your views.
Paul is a good teacher, but at times hard to understand, if you think you see him teaching something that can not be confirmed by Jesus, you probably are misunderstanding it.

its probably more that you dont want to see whats being said. its saying that you died with Jesus according to Faith in Gods word, and anyone who has died, is free from the Law of the flesh.i would study romans 6-8 and galatians 1-3. and just do it with prayer and an open mind to believe whats taught....but its fine if you disagree with me, the mosaic Law is for those outside of christ, the gospel is the new, heres some more scripture

hebrews 9:15-17 "For this reason Christ is the mediator of a NEW COVENANT, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed UNDER THE FIRST COVENANT. In the case of a will it is necessary to prove THE DEATH OF THE ONE WHO MADE IT , because A WILL IS IN FORCE ONLY WHEN SOMEBODY HAS DIED; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. "

and add this to the thinking

hebrews 8:13 "By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."



The promise to abraham was 2 parts, to bless abraham and His descendants, and also to bless the world through Abrahams seed ( Christ galatians 3:16) the promise He made for descendants of abraham was when He delivered them out of egypt, he then Gave them the Law, and God lived with them in a tent, all others were excluded, they were taught to follow strict regulations, to stone transgressors, to burn with fire certain sinners, based on the testimony of 2 or three people. they were instructed to be so hash on sin, because Gods presence was with them in thoier camps, His glory went before them. there is no mercy in the Law. are you aware there are at least 400 commands in the law regarding things such as ; purification after child birth, sacrificial regulations, which animals to slaughter and offer to God as a burnt offering, there are tiny regulations such as "mold control", there is an aspect to the Law that requires physically disabled people to stay far from God, Jesus went to the lepers and healed them.


the GOSPEL v the Law

The Law " you must pout the sinner to death purge the sin from among you "

the gospel " do not Judge and you will not be judged, do not condemn and you will not be condemned, be merciful and you will receive mercy"

The Law, you must keep your mind fixed on the letter of the law and carefully obey each ordinance....

The Gospel= Believe In Jesus , The Son of God, learn from Him, obey Him, trust Him, follow Him " Love one another as He taught us to Love one another" true Love. bless those who curse, forgive the one who sins and repents and asks forgiveness,

The Law " eye for an eye tooth for a tooth life for a life"

The Gospel " Turn the other Cheek, be kind to the one who offends you, give to the needs of others



two differentthings. Jesus died in order to credit that to you, in order that the Law of moses be removed from its authority over you, because you believe in Jesus Christ, who taught the eternal Kingdom of God, and NOT the mosaic Law of judaism.

 

[jaybird88]

its probably more that you dont want to see whats being said.

i see just fine and there is simply not anything in those passages that plainly say the law is abolished. Jesus did speak plainly on this:
"For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

doesn't get any plainer than that

Jesus was the sacrificial lamb was He not? b4 Jesus did they not make sacrifices in the temple, was this done to abolish the law? i dont think so.

Luciferians have doctrines in their dark occult belief system, one of them is "do what you will", what it means, they follow no laws, because they believe Lucifer has liberated them from the law.
and this is a big reason i have never been a big believer in the "Jesus liberated us from the law" theology, because its the same concept of those that follow Lucifer.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i see just fine and there is simply not anything in those passages that plainly say the law is abolished. Jesus did speak plainly on this:
"For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

doesn't get any plainer than that

Jesus was the sacrificial lamb was He not? b4 Jesus did they not make sacrifices in the temple, was this done to abolish the law? i dont think so.

Luciferians have doctrines in their dark occult belief system, one of them is "do what you will", what it means, they follow no laws, because they believe Lucifer has liberated them from the law.
and this is a big reason i have never been a big believer in the "Jesus liberated us from the law" theology, because its the same concept of those that follow Lucifer.

What does this mean?

does this mean that all people are bound by the law.

or does this mean that the law still has a purpose here on earth until the end?

How one interprets this verse I think is very important.. and would have differing consequences.

 

[jaybird88]

What does this mean?

does this mean that all people are bound by the law.

or does this mean that the law still has a purpose here on earth until the end?

How one interprets this verse I think is very important.. and would have differing consequences.

IMO it means obey the law. bound by the law? not sure i would call it that, sounds like a prison sentence and i dont think it was ever meant to be that.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Romans 10:4
King James Version KJV)

4.)For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

[CharlieGrown]

Romans 10:4
King James Version KJV)

4.)For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

It's a process of understanding. Experience is the language of the teacher.

 

[Grandpa]

i see just fine and there is simply not anything in those passages that plainly say the law is abolished. Jesus did speak plainly on this:
"For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

doesn't get any plainer than that

Jesus was the sacrificial lamb was He not? b4 Jesus did they not make sacrifices in the temple, was this done to abolish the law? i dont think so.

Luciferians have doctrines in their dark occult belief system, one of them is "do what you will", what it means, they follow no laws, because they believe Lucifer has liberated them from the law.
and this is a big reason i have never been a big believer in the "Jesus liberated us from the law" theology, because its the same concept of those that follow Lucifer.

You should know that the enemy attempts to mimic God. To imitate. But in a way that deceives and kills.

You should also know that the Law is not abolished. It is easy to know this because not everyone has come to Christ.


When we come to Christ we are no longer under the Law. Or rather, we realize we never were under the Law. We thought we were obeying the Law but the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit show us that the Law is spiritual and we never had any power to obey it. We thought we were winning at checkers but the game was chess.

So now we stop moving the pieces because we still revert back to checkers... We ask the Lord to play our game so we actually have a chance to win.

Or, in bible terms, we are no longer following a carnal commandment but instead the Power that is in Eternal Life.

You aren't sacrificing animals anymore, right? Because the Law is Spiritual. Same concept applied to all of it, not just a portion. But this is not intellectually discerned.

So if you think you have to still work at the law then there is no amount of explanation that could lift that vail. That is why these discussions go on and on and on. We are attempting to explain intellectually what is spiritual. And it mostly doesn't make sense to the intellect...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

IMO it means obey the law. bound by the law? not sure i would call it that, sounds like a prison sentence and i dont think it was ever meant to be that.

the fact is, it sort of was. Prison is the curse. which all who did not obey every word written, were under. (gal 3) .

To show you that you were headed to prison. So you would look for the redeemer.

If you do not think you are headed to prison. You will not seek for redemption.

 

[jaybird88]

the fact is, it sort of was. Prison is the curse. which all who did not obey every word written, were under. (gal 3) .

To show you that you were headed to prison. So you would look for the redeemer.

If you do not think you are headed to prison. You will not seek for redemption.

so the Father delivered His people out of Egypt, was on the mountain 40 days with Moses, so He could curse His own people?
i know of few fathers that would do that to their own children.
was Jesus cursed for following this law?

 

[jaybird88]

You should know that the enemy attempts to mimic God. To imitate. But in a way that deceives and kills.

You should also know that the Law is not abolished. It is easy to know this because not everyone has come to Christ.


When we come to Christ we are no longer under the Law. Or rather, we realize we never were under the Law. We thought we were obeying the Law but the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit show us that the Law is spiritual and we never had any power to obey it. We thought we were winning at checkers but the game was chess.

So now we stop moving the pieces because we still revert back to checkers... We ask the Lord to play our game so we actually have a chance to win.

Or, in bible terms, we are no longer following a carnal commandment but instead the Power that is in Eternal Life.

You aren't sacrificing animals anymore, right? Because the Law is Spiritual. Same concept applied to all of it, not just a portion. But this is not intellectually discerned.

So if you think you have to still work at the law then there is no amount of explanation that could lift that vail. That is why these discussions go on and on and on. We are attempting to explain intellectually what is spiritual. And it mostly doesn't make sense to the intellect...

so when Jesus obeyed the law, this was a bad example as we should not try and follow His example?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so the Father delivered His people out of Egypt, was on the mountain 40 days with Moses, so He could curse His own people?
i know of few fathers that would do that to their own children.
was Jesus cursed for following this law?

What part of gal 3 do you not understand?

The fact is, By the law the Jews thought they were righteous. That's why they crucified Christ. They distorted,. Twisted, and lowered the standard of the law so they could be ok. Like all religious people do.

The law was given to make sin known, so they could know. Whoever does not obey every word is under s curse (in Moses own words) (which will lead to prison if that curse is not removed)

Only the religious looks to the law and thinks they are ok. Those who trust Christ look to the law and see their guilt and shame, Not think they are ok.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so when Jesus obeyed the law, this was a bad example as we should not try and follow His example?

How did Jesu sober the law. By going around quoting the ten commands or six hundred some odd commands in his mind 24 7 so he knows how to act and not sin?

Or by the law of Love, Serving others, Putting everyone about himself?

 

[Grace777x70]

Jesus kept the whole law so that He could redeem those that were under the law - the Jews.

Jesus taught the law of Moses on steroids in order to elevate it to it's real intent. This is why He said - "If you even lust for someone - you have committed adultery". Jesus at times gave the law of Moses 2.0 on steroids to reveal the people's need for a Savior which is Him alone.

Until us Christians see the real purpose of the law of Moses - we will be trying "to observe the law" and we will be trying to replace this "doing of the law" and in effect be exchanging the life of Christ in us.

Living from the law of Moses for a Christian is exchanging Christ for rule keeping. It's His life that saves us - not "our doing of the law of Moses". Until we learn this truth - we will remain baby Christians. We can trust Christ's life in us now that we are a new creation in Him for life and living.

Gentiles were never under the law of Moses. Christians in Christ are not under the law of Moses but under grace and we are in Christ - the One who has fulfilled the law.

Galatians 4:4-5 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Jesus fulfilled the whole law so that we could be adopted as children of God. What a great salvation we have in Him!

 

[JaumeJ]

Bottome line.

Jesus Christ teaches us never to sin.

Sin is breaking the law.

Jesus Christ does not teach us to break the law.

Now, for those of you who know all about the law, mainly grace only folks it seems, study what Jesus Christ does teach and live as per our approach to understanding the law after the Cross. It is the curse of the law that is finished on the Crosee, not the law itself.

None who believe Jesus Christ are under the curse of the law, for we will never be killed by it....

Much of the law is made obsolet because it is fulfilled by our Lord, but you cannot speak knowledgeably about this subject unless you learn from Jesus Christ, God, on the subject.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Bottome line.

Jesus Christ teaches us never to sin.

Sin is breaking the law.

Jesus Christ does not teach us to break the law.

Now, for those of you who know all about the law, mainly grace only folks it seems, study what Jesus Christ does teach and live as per our approach to understanding the law after the Cross. It is the curse of the law that is finished on the Crosee, not the law itself.

None who believe Jesus Christ are under the curse of the law, for we will never be killed by it....

Much of the law is made obsolet because it is fulfilled by our Lord, but you cannot speak knowledgeably about this subject unless you learn from Jesus Christ, God, on the subject.

Christians are free of the curse of the Law because we are free of the Law. All of it. Having died to it and been released from it. All of it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Bottome line.

Jesus Christ teaches us never to sin.

Sin is breaking the law.

Jesus Christ does not teach us to break the law.

Now, for those of you who know all about the law, mainly grace only folks it seems, study what Jesus Christ does teach and live as per our approach to understanding the law after the Cross. It is the curse of the law that is finished on the Crosee, not the law itself.

None who believe Jesus Christ are under the curse of the law, for we will never be killed by it....

Much of the law is made obsolet because it is fulfilled by our Lord, but you cannot speak knowledgeably about this subject unless you learn from Jesus Christ, God, on the subject.

Bottom Line, Your right, Jesus would never tell us to break the law.

What he did to is

1. Release us from the curse (for the times we fail to live up to Gods standard)
2. Show us how (the law of love vs the law of Moses)

Law of love trumps every time, You will NEVER be a righteous person if you just follow the law of Moses.. You can look religious, sound religious and even act religious. But you will never do what Christ did while here on earth. Which is sactrifice self and love unconditionally.

 

[Grace777x70]

Have we ever read where Jesus said that the priests who stand in the temple - break the Sabbath which is in the Law?...or that David and his men ate of the bread which was in the temple?

Matthew 12:2-6 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath."

[SUP]3 [/SUP] But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,

[SUP]4 [/SUP] how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?

[SUP]5 [/SUP] "Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?[SUP]6 [/SUP] "But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.

Why were the priest not breaking the Sabbath law - because they were in the temple. Why did David be able to eat of the bread? Because he was in the temple.

This is why the true believer in Christ will not be breaking any Sabbath law because we are in the temple. Know you not that you are the temple of God?

Those that are in the temple are not breaking the Sabbath law by doing work because we are in Christ. He is the true temple of God as we are in union with Him and are one in the spirit.

Until we understand the reality of our union with Christ and what that means - we will be resorting to going back to the Law and trying to live by our own flesh and we are in reality exchanging the law for Christ Himself.

 

[JaumeJ]

Jesus Christ completed the levitical laws, that is the priestly laws, for He and only He is our High Priest Who need not offer sacrifices for Himself since He is and always has been perfect.

None of the laws given to Moses which are included in the two great laws are ever to be abolished.

The Ten Commandments, written first by God, Himself, are not obsolete.

Jesus Christ terminated the food laws, dietary laws, in His teachings.

By His Example we know that whenever mercy may be offered it is to be given, such as when He did not allow the woman caught in adultery to be stoned to death by arguing her freedom from that law............did He break the law?

He did not break the law for He always followed the three principles He mentioned to the jypoctrites in applying faith, mercy and justice.

When these are apllied the laws of Love afre fulfilled......this by no means says God was crazy when He gave Moses the law. If we read all of the Word we will see that some of the laws were never intended to be applied.........for some of the ordinaces and statutes given were bad, according to God's Word.......

Study the Word of God from beginning to end to be found not wanting.

If one has not studied, yet speaks on a particular subject, well, we know what is taught about one such in Proverbs and elsewhere....... Who would dare respond to a question before it has been posed?

Bottom Line, Your right, Jesus would never tell us to break the law.

What he did to is

1. Release us from the curse (for the times we fail to live up to Gods standard)
2. Show us how (the law of love vs the law of Moses)

Law of love trumps every time, You will NEVER be a righteous person if you just follow the law of Moses.. You can look religious, sound religious and even act religious. But you will never do what Christ did while here on earth. Which is sactrifice self and love unconditionally.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Jesus Christ completed the levitical laws, that is the priestly laws, for He and only He is our High Priest Who need not offer sacrifices for Himself since He is and always has been perfect.

None of the laws given to Moses which are included in the two great laws are ever to be abolished.

The Ten Commandments, written first by God, Himself, are not obsolete.

Jesus Christ terminated the food laws, dietary laws, in His teachings.

By His Example we know that whenever mercy may be offered it is to be given, such as when He did not allow the woman caught in adultery to be stoned to death by arguing her freedom from that law............did He break the law?

He did not break the law for He always followed the three principles He mentioned to the jypoctrites in applying faith, mercy and justice.

When these are apllied the laws of Love afre fulfilled......this by no means says God was crazy when He gave Moses the law. If we read all of the Word we will see that some of the laws were never intended to be applied.........for some of the ordinaces and statutes given were bad, according to God's Word.......

Study the Word of God from beginning to end to be found not wanting.

If one has not studied, yet speaks on a particular subject, well, we know what is taught about one such in Proverbs and elsewhere....... Who would dare respond to a question before it has been posed?

Christians have died to and been released from the the Law, all of the Law, including the Ten Commandments.

“For through the Law I died to the Law so that I might live for God." Gal. 2:19


Which Law??


"When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the Law aroused these evil desires that produced a harvest of sinful deeds, resulting in death. But now we have been released from the Law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the Law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit. Well then, am I suggesting that the Law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the Law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the Law had not said, “You must not covet.” Romans 7:5-7