When did the Law expire?

[Zmouth]

Did telling folks not to murder stop murder?

Did the prophets saying "To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice." keep folks from thinking a sacrifice will make them more acceptable to the LORD?

10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? 11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. John 19:10-11

So if not under the law then how does one do justice and judgment?

From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Matt 16:21


Heck of a way to prove a point.

 

[beta]

NO!

Sin exists regardless of there being Law or not. How on earth did Adam sin?????????????????????????????????????????

Adam disobeyed God's commandment Gen 2v16 and this allowed sin to enter.
Do people disobey God's commands today ? you bet !
What are they doing about it ? not a lot ! (but I derail the thread)

 

[beta]

Did the prophets saying "To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice." keep folks from thinking a sacrifice will make them more acceptable to the LORD?

10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? 11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. John 19:10-11

So if not under the law then how does one do justice and judgment?

From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Matt 16:21


Heck of a way to prove a point.

yes, Jesus was teaching HIS DISCIPLES - those who were with Him 24/7 - not those who followed Him at their own will for their own reasons.

 

[beta]

"Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound" Romans 6:1 If we are no longer as most would say bound by those Tables of Stone, and the Law is not written in ones heart, then how does one know sin?

Yes indeed - how do we know sin without guidance ? people just 'assume they have the Holy Spirit to lead them, even without having to be obedient to the Word ---thus they decide for themselves what is sin. This is all totally UNbiblical.

 

[Grandpa]

If the law expired, wouldn't it mean that "sin" (which is the breaking of said law) no longer exists? If the law expired wouldn't it mean no one can possibly sin anymore no matter what they do?

Also, how can someone possibly place themselves back "under the law" - in an attempt to justify themselves - if it no longer exists?


..See what I'm getting at? Doesn't the whole thing collapses on itself if the law expired?

Its much more simple than that.

The Law is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.

After we have come to Christ we are no longer under the Law. It has "expired". Not for everyone. Just the ones who come to Christ.

Those who have not come to Christ are still under the law. Only by coming to Christ is the vail removed and the required faith given to no longer be under the law.

Hebrews 4:10-11
[FONT=&quot]10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


Unbelief is marked by those who work at the law. You can make yourself righteous and sinless by your own work. You don't need God. Except maybe every once in a while when you "slip"...

Galatians 3:11-14
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Why do legalists focus on sin so much? Shouldn't Christians be focusing on faith?[/FONT]

 

[FreeNChrist]

Is it that important of a distinction? God said don't do it. They did it. The result was death. So whether we say it was a command or a law, if God says don't and we do, death is the result. I don't see the importance of distinguishing some subtle difference between command or law, when the result of not doing what He commands is death AND the result of not doing what He calls law is death. But maybe you are seeing something very important that I am not.

Yes, it's important to understand what scripture actually means when it speaks of "the Law".

 

[TheSearcherMan]

Adam disobeyed God's commandment Gen 2v16 and this allowed sin to enter.
Do people disobey God's commands today ? you bet !
What are they doing about it ? not a lot ! (but I derail the thread)

Sir, regarding your statement above, would you please comment on this verse from 1 Timothy 2:14;

"And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner"

Not trying to change the topic, just share with you.

 

[FreeNChrist]

So...you mean my need for forgiveness by His blood is continual because I can't stop murdering? So He died to do away with the penalty of sin but not to do away with the sin?

Your forgiveness is an accomplished fact. But no, that's not what I mean.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Romans Chapter 7 shows us the condition of converted life if we try to work it out in our own power and then he shows us what converted life is with the Spirit and empowering grace in chap 8....

You are not powerless over SIN....SIN becomes a choice once you become a saint.....

I agree, to sin is a choice.

 

[FreeNChrist]

This is a good story but how many Christians apply it to their own life and actually ''walk with Jesus 24/7 ? Do you think that slave took sat/sun off to do her own thing ? Christians do....so they are not as loyal as they OUGHT to be.

It is a good story. Because it shows how how grace accomplishes what the Law only demands.

 

[Ariel82]

If people look at the laws of science as an analogy for God's laws, since pure science seeks to atudy God's laws for the natural world.

I always compare the Law given thru Moses to be like the Law of gravity..,it makes statements like "what goes up, must come down," or "the consequences of sin are death."

However the Law of aerodynamics or sattelites in space, show that law of gravity can be made to seem different. Gravity still acts upon the objects but they are carried by a force that is greater...that force for us is the Holy Spirit and He tells us that though the punishment of sin is death, Christ has paid the price and He will teach us to soar upon His wings.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Its much more simple than that.

The Law is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.

After we have come to Christ we are no longer under the Law. It has "expired". Not for everyone. Just the ones who come to Christ.

Those who have not come to Christ are still under the law. Only by coming to Christ is the vail removed and the required faith given to no longer be under the law.

Hebrews 4:10-11
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


Unbelief is marked by those who work at the law. You can make yourself righteous and sinless by your own work. You don't need God. Except maybe every once in a while when you "slip"...

Galatians 3:11-14

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Why do legalists focus on sin so much? Shouldn't Christians be focusing on faith?

Thats right. It's not that the Law is dead, it's that we are dead to the Law.

“For through the Law I died to the Law so that I might live for God." Gal. 2:19

A person who has not died to the Law, is not living for God.

 

[Zmouth]

yes, Jesus was teaching HIS DISCIPLES - those who were with Him 24/7 - not those who followed Him at their own will for their own reasons.

I thought it was done so that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled as written in Matthew 26:58?

 

[FreeNChrist]

That is good advice - but as we have seen and noted - TELLING people what to do is just NOT working, whether OT or NT - it's just not working. Not because we don't want to obey and please God but because we are weak in the flesh.
As far as I can see a way out is to ''learn to walk with Jesus holding His hand literally 24/7 !!!
There are several instances in the OT where God says He took and led Israel ''by the hand. I think that also works for us but it will require a ''submissive spirit - which I think is missing in people today. It would require going back in time and 'starting all over in our new walk with Christ !
This is what I am doing - it's called 'learning obedience Heb5v8,9.

That's what scripture calls living by faith in Jesus Christ.

"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20

 

[FreeNChrist]

The term “Law” is very vast. Just so I have a good understanding the people that think the “Law” stopped existing what part, or all of it: “moral law” is now extent too, or is it all the first 5 books of the Bible has stopped existing and we should rip it out, or is it the “sacrificial law”? or do you not know?

SPURGEON;


"It is only a pure and perfect law that the Holy Spirit can use in order to show to us our depravity and sinfulness. Lower the law and you dim the light by which man perceives his guilt. This is a very serious loss to the sinner rather than a gain, for it lessens the likelihood of his conviction and conversion.

You have also taken away from the law its power to shut us up to faith in Christ. What is the law of God for? For us to keep in order to be saved by it? Not at all. It is sent in order to show us that we cannot be saved by works, and to shut us up to be saved by grace; but if you make out that the law is altered so that a man can keep it, you have left him his old legal hope, and he is sure to cling to it. You need a perfect law that shuts man right up to hopelessness apart from Jesus, puts him into an iron cage and locks him up, and offers him no escape but by faith in Jesus; then he begins to cry, “Lord, save me by grace, for I perceive that I cannot be saved by my own works.” This is how Paul describes it to the Galatians: “The Scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.” I say you have deprived the gospel of its ablest auxiliary when you have set aside the law. You have taken away from it the schoolmaster that is to bring men to Christ. No, it must stand, and stand in all its terrors, to drive men away from self-righteousness and constrain them to fly to Christ. They will never accept grace till they tremble before a just and holy law; therefore the law serves a most necessary and blessed purpose, and it must not be removed from its place."

 

[TheSearcherMan]

Then who are those Christ is speaking of in Matthew 7, NIV?

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[FreeNChrist]

Then who are those Christ is speaking of in Matthew 7, NIV?

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

It's speaking about do-do people. Those who think it is about what they have done instead of what Jesus has done.

 

[Zmouth]

I always compare the Law given thru Moses to be like the Law of gravity..,it makes statements like "what goes up, must come down," or "the consequences of sin are death."

So in the book of Proverbs of Solomon, the son of David it is written, By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. Prov 8:15. Did Kings reign by the son of David or by the LORD of the heaven above and the earth beneath?

 

[TheSearcherMan]

And the evildoers mentioned? Define evil?

 

[beta]

Sir, regarding your statement above, would you please comment on this verse from 1 Timothy 2:14;

"And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner"

Not trying to change the topic, just share with you.

Sir ? (I am female)
Are you saying Adam did not sin ? we are talking 'disobedience, not deception (but we are totally derailing the thread).