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Charles Spurgeon:
I would add next, consider the testimony of others. The Samaritans believed because of what the woman told them concerning Jesus. Many of our beliefs arise out of the testimony of others. I believe that there is such a country as Japan; I never saw it, and yet I believe that there is such a place because others have been there. I believe that I shall die; I have never died, but a great many have done so whom I once knew, and therefore I have a conviction that I shall die also. The testimony of many convinces me of that fact. Listen, then, to those who tell you how they were saved, how they were pardoned, how they were changed in character.
Quest
I would add next, consider the testimony of others. The Samaritans believed because of what the woman told them concerning Jesus. Many of our beliefs arise out of the testimony of others. I believe that there is such a country as Japan; I never saw it, and yet I believe that there is such a place because others have been there. I believe that I shall die; I have never died, but a great many have done so whom I once knew, and therefore I have a conviction that I shall die also. The testimony of many convinces me of that fact. Listen, then, to those who tell you how they were saved, how they were pardoned, how they were changed in character.
Quest
I feel that I would like to reply to this post. I am a little confused I must admit . Im one of your first posts on this subject you stated, and I quote.
The issue is not perfection it is one of striving and struggling. If a person is not struggling against sin they must be corrected. You also stated that we must strive to uphold the law of Christ. You also lay great emphasis on sin being coirrected, and give the impression that sin is not to be accepted in the Christian life.
You also gave a Biblical example that God would bring us to keep his statutes and ordinances. I certainly would agree with that(though no-one can perfectly)
What I find difficult is then your tone completely changed. You then said that all of us including you every day break every commandment of God. Although you have said now this is based on the main two, that would therefore still mean I would suggest that they all are being broken. If you give as the example the main two being broken and this has a roll on effect to the others.
You also say you have a wicked and deceitful heart, and cyou are too wicked with your sinful nature. This seems to me to be at odds with earlier statements.
You added that if I knew of any scripture that says we should be perfect according to law then could I tell you. You know I dont, nor have I claimed we could be perfect on earth, actually I have spoken strongly against such a notion. However I do find there are Bible verses that would suggest strongly the mature Christian should be cdoing better than your recent posts suggest, The new Christian I would agree could not be expected to, but you are speaking in these examples of all us Christians now.
For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace. Rom6:14
Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law. Rom3:31
These verses speak of a far higher obediance to the law than you are now saying we acheive.
That is a question which every man will have to answer, for there can be no going on in sin and going to Heaven. That cannot be. You must quit sin or quit hope(Charles Spurgeon)
This does seem very contrary to your words on our sinning.
Also Spurgeon says that he had seen prostitutes become saved and have hearts as ppure as the driven snow. I would suggest this is at variance to what you are suggesting your heart(and I guess ours) are now like.
Your opinions on these things appears to have greatly changed. I am sure you will say they haven't, it is up to others reading the comments as to whether they have or not.
The only way all of this makes sense to me, is I know only living under the princapals of the true grace Paul spoke of, can bring the dramatic changes in our lives that Paul spoke of. Nothing else can. He himself said he had been the worst of sinners and a blasphemer. He couldn't obey the Ten Commandments and when he tried his mind became fu;ll of lust/sexual desire. And yet Paul totally changed and demanded a high standard from other Christians when they were mature in their faith. But this standard I would suggest is not found in the statements you make about we as Christians now in relation to sin.
The only conclusion I can draw is that either we are insincere if you are correct about the Christians state, or we are not following the Gospel of grace Paul preached. To me it must be one or the other.
There are some verses that I believe tell us Paul's core thinking. I will mention some in relation to the new Christian and Paul's way.
If while cwe seek to be justified in Christ it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does this mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed I prove that I am a lawbreaker.
For through the law I died to the law that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body I live by faith in the son of God who loved me and gave himself for me.
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law Christ died for nothing. Gal2:17-21
Paul also said
So then my brothers. You also died to the law through the body of Christ that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law so that we may serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. Rom7:5-6
After Paul had spoken of the law condemning him and arousing lust in Him he spoke of his struggle with sin. Then he said.
Because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of live set me free from the law of sin and death(the Mosaic law) For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature God did by sending His own son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful masn in order that the righteous requirements oif the law might be fully met in us who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Rom8:2-4
There sems to be a constantly recurring theme here. By dyiong to the law Paul had freedom. He said it was the law that aroused the sinful passions in him and condemned him. If we are today breaking God's laws so much as you say, is it not possible that we are not living in the truth of what Paul so often said. Have we really died to the law where sin enslaves us?
Your covenant with death will be annulled
Your agreement with the grave will not stand
Isisah28:18
We know what Paul considered the covenant of death. He spoke of it after the faliure to obey the Ten Commandments.
Bind up the testimony seal up the law among my disciples. Isiaih8:16
Are we really living in the truth of Paul's words, or by not doing ignoring to an extent the cross of Christ? Surely there is power and great victory in the truth
The issue is not perfection it is one of striving and struggling. If a person is not struggling against sin they must be corrected. You also stated that we must strive to uphold the law of Christ. You also lay great emphasis on sin being coirrected, and give the impression that sin is not to be accepted in the Christian life.
You also gave a Biblical example that God would bring us to keep his statutes and ordinances. I certainly would agree with that(though no-one can perfectly)
What I find difficult is then your tone completely changed. You then said that all of us including you every day break every commandment of God. Although you have said now this is based on the main two, that would therefore still mean I would suggest that they all are being broken. If you give as the example the main two being broken and this has a roll on effect to the others.
You also say you have a wicked and deceitful heart, and cyou are too wicked with your sinful nature. This seems to me to be at odds with earlier statements.
You added that if I knew of any scripture that says we should be perfect according to law then could I tell you. You know I dont, nor have I claimed we could be perfect on earth, actually I have spoken strongly against such a notion. However I do find there are Bible verses that would suggest strongly the mature Christian should be cdoing better than your recent posts suggest, The new Christian I would agree could not be expected to, but you are speaking in these examples of all us Christians now.
For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace. Rom6:14
Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law. Rom3:31
These verses speak of a far higher obediance to the law than you are now saying we acheive.
That is a question which every man will have to answer, for there can be no going on in sin and going to Heaven. That cannot be. You must quit sin or quit hope(Charles Spurgeon)
This does seem very contrary to your words on our sinning.
Also Spurgeon says that he had seen prostitutes become saved and have hearts as ppure as the driven snow. I would suggest this is at variance to what you are suggesting your heart(and I guess ours) are now like.
Your opinions on these things appears to have greatly changed. I am sure you will say they haven't, it is up to others reading the comments as to whether they have or not.
The only way all of this makes sense to me, is I know only living under the princapals of the true grace Paul spoke of, can bring the dramatic changes in our lives that Paul spoke of. Nothing else can. He himself said he had been the worst of sinners and a blasphemer. He couldn't obey the Ten Commandments and when he tried his mind became fu;ll of lust/sexual desire. And yet Paul totally changed and demanded a high standard from other Christians when they were mature in their faith. But this standard I would suggest is not found in the statements you make about we as Christians now in relation to sin.
The only conclusion I can draw is that either we are insincere if you are correct about the Christians state, or we are not following the Gospel of grace Paul preached. To me it must be one or the other.
There are some verses that I believe tell us Paul's core thinking. I will mention some in relation to the new Christian and Paul's way.
If while cwe seek to be justified in Christ it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does this mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed I prove that I am a lawbreaker.
For through the law I died to the law that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body I live by faith in the son of God who loved me and gave himself for me.
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law Christ died for nothing. Gal2:17-21
Paul also said
So then my brothers. You also died to the law through the body of Christ that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law so that we may serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. Rom7:5-6
After Paul had spoken of the law condemning him and arousing lust in Him he spoke of his struggle with sin. Then he said.
Because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of live set me free from the law of sin and death(the Mosaic law) For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature God did by sending His own son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful masn in order that the righteous requirements oif the law might be fully met in us who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Rom8:2-4
There sems to be a constantly recurring theme here. By dyiong to the law Paul had freedom. He said it was the law that aroused the sinful passions in him and condemned him. If we are today breaking God's laws so much as you say, is it not possible that we are not living in the truth of what Paul so often said. Have we really died to the law where sin enslaves us?
Your covenant with death will be annulled
Your agreement with the grave will not stand
Isisah28:18
We know what Paul considered the covenant of death. He spoke of it after the faliure to obey the Ten Commandments.
Bind up the testimony seal up the law among my disciples. Isiaih8:16
Are we really living in the truth of Paul's words, or by not doing ignoring to an extent the cross of Christ? Surely there is power and great victory in the truth
D
Questiontime, you are walking around like a Pharisee, thinking you can see when as yet you are blind. You are treading on dangerous ground with your arrogance and faulty theology. You think you have it all but you are lacking. You've made an idol out of John Wesley. John Wesley is more important, more quoted, and more appealed to than Scripture is. Your measuring rod by which you judge things is John Wesley. You've tried comparing me to John Wesley, his writings, and the Moravians. You are to only judge things by Scripture alone. Be warned, Quest. No idolater will enter the kingdom of Heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
D
Now I will quote Charles Haddon Spurgeon in order to show you that you are not aligned with him doctrinally, and you will see that his writings betray you and your theology, livingbygrace:
We preach faith in order that men may be brought to obedience. To disbelieve is to disobey. One of the first signs of practical obedience is found in the obedience of the mind, the understanding, and the heart; and this is expressed in believing the teaching of Christ, trusting to his work, and resting in his salvation. Faith is the morning star of obedience. If we would work the work of God, we must believe on Jesus Christ whom he hath sent.*** Brethren, we do not give a secondary place to obedience, as some suppose. *** We look upon the obedience of the heart to the will of God as salvation. The attainment of perfect obedience would mean perfect salvation. We regard sanctification, or obedience, as the great design for which the Saviour died. He shed his blood that he might cleanse us from dead works, and purify unto himself a people zealous for good works. It is for this that we were chosen: we are "elect unto holiness." We know nothing of election to continue in sin. It is for this that we have been called: we are "called to be saints." Obedience is the grand object of the work of grace in the hearts of those who are chosen and called: they are to become obedient children, conformed to the image of the Elder Brother, with whom the Father is well pleased.
I. First consider THE KIND OF FAITH WHICH PRODUCES OBEDIENCE.
It is, manifestly, faith in God as having the right to command our obedience. Beloved in the Lord, you know that he is Sovereign, and that his will is law. You feel that God, your Maker, your Preserver, your Redeemer, and your Father, should have your unswerving service. We unite, also, in confessing that we are not our own, we are bought with a price. The Lord our God has a right to us which we would not wish to question.
You must have a paramount faith in God, or else the will of God will not be a paramount rule to you. Only a reigning faith will make us subject to its power, so as to be in all things obedient to the Lord. The chief thought in life with the true believer is, "How can I obey God?"His great anxiety is to do the will of God , or acceptably to suffer that will; and if he can obey, he will make no terms with God, and stand upon no reservations. He will pray, "Refine me from the dross of rebellion, and let the furnace be as fierce as thou wilt." His choice is neither wealth, nor ease, nor honour; but that ho may glorify God in his body, and his spirit, which are the Lord's. Obedience has become as much his rule as self-will is the rule of others. His cry unto the Lord is, "By thy command I stay or go. Thy will is my will; thy pleasure is my pleasure; thy law is my love."
God grant us a supreme, over-mastering faith, for this is the kind of faith which we must have if we are to lead obedient lives! We must have faith in God's right to rule, faith in the rightness of his commands, faith in our personal obligation to obey, and faith that the command must be the paramount authority of our being. With this faith of God's elect, we shall realise the object of our election—namely, that we should be holy, and without blame before him in love.
Dear friend, have you this kind of faith? I will withdraw the question as directed to you, and I will ask it of myself: Have I that faith which leads me to obey my God?—for obedience, if it be of the kind we are speaking of, is faith in action—faith walking with God, or, shall I say, walking before the Lord in the land of the living?
We preach faith in order that men may be brought to obedience. To disbelieve is to disobey. One of the first signs of practical obedience is found in the obedience of the mind, the understanding, and the heart; and this is expressed in believing the teaching of Christ, trusting to his work, and resting in his salvation. Faith is the morning star of obedience. If we would work the work of God, we must believe on Jesus Christ whom he hath sent.*** Brethren, we do not give a secondary place to obedience, as some suppose. *** We look upon the obedience of the heart to the will of God as salvation. The attainment of perfect obedience would mean perfect salvation. We regard sanctification, or obedience, as the great design for which the Saviour died. He shed his blood that he might cleanse us from dead works, and purify unto himself a people zealous for good works. It is for this that we were chosen: we are "elect unto holiness." We know nothing of election to continue in sin. It is for this that we have been called: we are "called to be saints." Obedience is the grand object of the work of grace in the hearts of those who are chosen and called: they are to become obedient children, conformed to the image of the Elder Brother, with whom the Father is well pleased.
I. First consider THE KIND OF FAITH WHICH PRODUCES OBEDIENCE.
It is, manifestly, faith in God as having the right to command our obedience. Beloved in the Lord, you know that he is Sovereign, and that his will is law. You feel that God, your Maker, your Preserver, your Redeemer, and your Father, should have your unswerving service. We unite, also, in confessing that we are not our own, we are bought with a price. The Lord our God has a right to us which we would not wish to question.
You must have a paramount faith in God, or else the will of God will not be a paramount rule to you. Only a reigning faith will make us subject to its power, so as to be in all things obedient to the Lord. The chief thought in life with the true believer is, "How can I obey God?"His great anxiety is to do the will of God , or acceptably to suffer that will; and if he can obey, he will make no terms with God, and stand upon no reservations. He will pray, "Refine me from the dross of rebellion, and let the furnace be as fierce as thou wilt." His choice is neither wealth, nor ease, nor honour; but that ho may glorify God in his body, and his spirit, which are the Lord's. Obedience has become as much his rule as self-will is the rule of others. His cry unto the Lord is, "By thy command I stay or go. Thy will is my will; thy pleasure is my pleasure; thy law is my love."
God grant us a supreme, over-mastering faith, for this is the kind of faith which we must have if we are to lead obedient lives! We must have faith in God's right to rule, faith in the rightness of his commands, faith in our personal obligation to obey, and faith that the command must be the paramount authority of our being. With this faith of God's elect, we shall realise the object of our election—namely, that we should be holy, and without blame before him in love.
Dear friend, have you this kind of faith? I will withdraw the question as directed to you, and I will ask it of myself: Have I that faith which leads me to obey my God?—for obedience, if it be of the kind we are speaking of, is faith in action—faith walking with God, or, shall I say, walking before the Lord in the land of the living?
D
(Hebrews 12:14) Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord
- I ask you livinggrace and Quest, are you both pursuing holiness? Is it legalism to pursue holiness, like the Bible commands here?
Spurgeon's Commentary on Hebrews 12:14 -
You will not gain holiness by standing still. Nobody ever grew holy without consenting, desiring, and agonizing to be holy. Sin will grow without sowing, but holiness needs cultivation. Follow it; it will not run after you. You must pursue it with determination, with eagerness, with perseverance, as a hunter pursues his prey.
If you occasionally get drunk, or if you now and then let fall an oath, or if in your business you would make twice two into five or three, according as your profit happens to run, do not talk about being a Christian. Christ has nothing to do with you, at least no more to do with you than he had to do with Judas Iscariot. You are very much in the same position. If without holiness, then much more without morality can no man expect to see the face of God with acceptance.
God smote an angel down from heaven for sin, and will he let man in with sin in his right hand? God would sooner extinguish heaven than see sin despoil it. It is enough for him to bear with your hypocrisies on earth. Shall he have them flung in his own face in heaven?
“?Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.?” A man’s god is like himself, and until he become like God we cannot see God; we misunderstand God until we have been trained to imitate him.
The holy God can only be seen by holy eyes. He must make us like himself before we can see him.
Run after it. It will often seem to run away from you, so you must pursue it, and capture it
- I ask you livinggrace and Quest, are you both pursuing holiness? Is it legalism to pursue holiness, like the Bible commands here?
Spurgeon's Commentary on Hebrews 12:14 -
You will not gain holiness by standing still. Nobody ever grew holy without consenting, desiring, and agonizing to be holy. Sin will grow without sowing, but holiness needs cultivation. Follow it; it will not run after you. You must pursue it with determination, with eagerness, with perseverance, as a hunter pursues his prey.
If you occasionally get drunk, or if you now and then let fall an oath, or if in your business you would make twice two into five or three, according as your profit happens to run, do not talk about being a Christian. Christ has nothing to do with you, at least no more to do with you than he had to do with Judas Iscariot. You are very much in the same position. If without holiness, then much more without morality can no man expect to see the face of God with acceptance.
God smote an angel down from heaven for sin, and will he let man in with sin in his right hand? God would sooner extinguish heaven than see sin despoil it. It is enough for him to bear with your hypocrisies on earth. Shall he have them flung in his own face in heaven?
“?Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.?” A man’s god is like himself, and until he become like God we cannot see God; we misunderstand God until we have been trained to imitate him.
The holy God can only be seen by holy eyes. He must make us like himself before we can see him.
Run after it. It will often seem to run away from you, so you must pursue it, and capture it
I am very grateful for you posting this from Spurgeon, very grateful indeed vDane, thank you. Faith brings obediance, that is what Spurgeon says. I am now going to list wo4rd for word some of your comments in this debate. I cannot be accused of making anything up.
It isw one of striving and struggling. If a person is not struggling against sin they must be corrected.
We are commanded to put to death the deeds of the body.
I do not believe anyone can keep the law of God in any degree pleasing to God. I believe firmly that each and everyone of us including myself fails God miserably and breaks each and every one of of his commandments each day
Those whom God saves he causes them to walk in his statutes and they are from that point onward careful to keep his ordinances. This is what you are seeing in me and my striving.
Now by this we know that we know Him if we keep his commandments He who says I know Him and does not5 keep His commandments is a liar
Am I wrong or lying when I say I break the commandments of God daily
I do not have the capacity to keep any of His commandments perfectly.
We are unable to detect the hidden sin deep within our being
But the Holy Spirit reveals it to us!
My issue has been regarding what happens aftyer Gode saves a person and the new creation God makes him into. My issue concerns what a person becomes as a result of the grace of God. The changes God has wrought in his heart.
I am too wicked. I have a sinful nature and my heart is deceitfully wicked
These are all word for word your statements Dane. Conflicting statements. You say that Spurgeon says faith brings obediance. Are your statements proof of your obediance?
On the one hand you quote John to say ifd we do not keep the commandments and say we know Him(Jesus) we are a liar. You then say you break all the commandments. I believe by your own statements you have shown muddled theology at best, and a very confused Christian theology
It isw one of striving and struggling. If a person is not struggling against sin they must be corrected.
We are commanded to put to death the deeds of the body.
I do not believe anyone can keep the law of God in any degree pleasing to God. I believe firmly that each and everyone of us including myself fails God miserably and breaks each and every one of of his commandments each day
Those whom God saves he causes them to walk in his statutes and they are from that point onward careful to keep his ordinances. This is what you are seeing in me and my striving.
Now by this we know that we know Him if we keep his commandments He who says I know Him and does not5 keep His commandments is a liar
Am I wrong or lying when I say I break the commandments of God daily
I do not have the capacity to keep any of His commandments perfectly.
We are unable to detect the hidden sin deep within our being
But the Holy Spirit reveals it to us!
My issue has been regarding what happens aftyer Gode saves a person and the new creation God makes him into. My issue concerns what a person becomes as a result of the grace of God. The changes God has wrought in his heart.
I am too wicked. I have a sinful nature and my heart is deceitfully wicked
These are all word for word your statements Dane. Conflicting statements. You say that Spurgeon says faith brings obediance. Are your statements proof of your obediance?
On the one hand you quote John to say ifd we do not keep the commandments and say we know Him(Jesus) we are a liar. You then say you break all the commandments. I believe by your own statements you have shown muddled theology at best, and a very confused Christian theology
D
Spurgeon taught, as the Scriptures teach, that those whom God saves are given a new nature by which they are driven to obey Him. Obedience is not the cause for salvation but the evidence. I strive to obey God not in order to be saved or accepted by God, but because He has already accepted and saved me. I obey not because I want to be accepted by God, I obey because I myself hunger and thirst for righteousness. Even though I strive for righteousness, I am unrighteous. It is only in Christ can I be seen as righteous in God's eyes. My striving for righteousness doesn't change that. Though I strive for and love the commandments, I fail at keeping them perfectly as God requires. My faith rests not in myself in keeping them perfectly, but in Christ who kept them perfectly.
Dane this theology is becoming increasingly muddled
I strive for righteousness
For in the Gospel a righteousness from God has been revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last. Just as it is written. The righteous will live by faith Rom1:17
How can you be obeying God and breaking all of His commandments. Please do not say your comments referred to two, I do not believe anyone reading that post wil;l accept that
Though I strive for and love the commandments
You strive for the commandments. We are not under law as you have stated.
I strive for righteousness
For in the Gospel a righteousness from God has been revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last. Just as it is written. The righteous will live by faith Rom1:17
How can you be obeying God and breaking all of His commandments. Please do not say your comments referred to two, I do not believe anyone reading that post wil;l accept that
Though I strive for and love the commandments
You strive for the commandments. We are not under law as you have stated.
D
I've never said we are under law. We are under grace. Under the law means we must satisfy the demands of the law in order to be justified. But all have broken the law and therefore none can satisfy its demands. Being under grace means God has satisfied the demands of the law on behalf of us, and has imputed to us His righteousness. Those whom God saves and justifies are given a new nature by which they love and desire to pursue righteousness.
(Matthew 5:6) Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled.
"You will not gain holiness by standing still. Nobody ever grew holy without consenting, desiring, and agonizing to be holy. Sin will grow without sowing, but holiness needs cultivation. Follow it; it will not run after you. You must pursue it with determination, with eagerness, with perseverance, as a hunter pursues his prey." - Spurgeon
(Matthew 5:6) Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled.
"You will not gain holiness by standing still. Nobody ever grew holy without consenting, desiring, and agonizing to be holy. Sin will grow without sowing, but holiness needs cultivation. Follow it; it will not run after you. You must pursue it with determination, with eagerness, with perseverance, as a hunter pursues his prey." - Spurgeon
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Spurgeon
was absolutely clear in All of Grace
Christ died for the ungodly while they were yet without strength
It is the new believers Job to look to Christ and trust Him this is whatt Spurgeon said is required of the new believer . Are you now saying that Spurgeon is contradicting himself. I may tomorrow write out a couple of pages word for word of his book
You concentrate on law Dane, the written law, why?
He forgave us all our sins having cancelled the written code with its regulations that was against us and that stood oppposed to us. He took it away nailing it to the cross
Col2:14
Christ is the end of the law Rom10:4
By abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations Eph2:15
He forgave us all our sins having cancelled the written code with its regulations that was against us and that stood oppposed to us. He took it away nailing it to the cross
Col2:14
Christ is the end of the law Rom10:4
By abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations Eph2:15
D
The verses you keep on quoting, livinggrace, are dealing with people who are trying to be justified by keeping the law. I am not trying to be justified by keeping the law. I know that I am justified already because Christ kept the law. God has given me a new heart in which He has written His law. The Bible says He will write His law in their hearts, and they will be careful to do His ordinances. Those who God justifies by His Son are given new desires by which they love the things God loves (righteousness) and hate the things God hates (sin).
Livinggrace, you confess that you hate the law, or at least doing the law. Why is it that all the saints of God declared that the law of God was their delight?
(Psalm 1:1-2) Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the path of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful; but his delight is in the law of the LORD, and in His law he meditates day and night.
- Livingsgrace, is the law of God your delight? Do you meditate in the law of God? If not, you are not the blessed man here. If not, if you despise the law, then you will be those who come to Christ on the day of judgment expecting to enter Heaven, but He will declare to you: "Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" - Matthew 7:23
Livinggrace, you confess that you hate the law, or at least doing the law. Why is it that all the saints of God declared that the law of God was their delight?
(Psalm 1:1-2) Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the path of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful; but his delight is in the law of the LORD, and in His law he meditates day and night.
- Livingsgrace, is the law of God your delight? Do you meditate in the law of God? If not, you are not the blessed man here. If not, if you despise the law, then you will be those who come to Christ on the day of judgment expecting to enter Heaven, but He will declare to you: "Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" - Matthew 7:23
Paul died to the law so that he might live for Christ. He died to it. It does not say he died to it just for when he became a Christian. You don't ujnderstand true grace. If oyu did you would not continusally break all of the commandments
By God's laws being written on our minds it just means thhat in our hearts we want to obey Him so we need no written law
You quote Psalms to prove the law exists for a Christian now?
D
Paul died to trying to be justified by his personal obedience to the law. The issue I am dealing with you is not being justified. I am talking about those who are already justified. What do the people of God, who are justified only by the blood of Christ, look like? What do they desire? What do they yearn for? What do they strive for? What do they love? The saints love God and His righteousness; they love His law, commandments, and ordinances. They meditate on them day and night.
If you're not meditating on the law and righteousness of God, if it is not your delight, then you have every reason, by Scripture, to fear, for you may not know the Lord.
If you're not meditating on the law and righteousness of God, if it is not your delight, then you have every reason, by Scripture, to fear, for you may not know the Lord.
Bind up the testimony, seal up tthe law, among my disciples Isiaih8:16
That talks of disciples people who are already Christians
We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels 1Tim1:9
For if those who live by law are heirs faith has no value and the promise is worthless, because law brings wrath. Rom4:14
Thatv says live by notice.
What then was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgression untiil the seed to whom the ppromise refered had come Gal3:19
Before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law Gal3:23&24
All who rely7 on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written. Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written ion the book of the law. Clearly no-one is justified by God before the law, because the righteous will live by faith. Gal3:10&11
You covenant with death will be annulled
your agreement with the grave will not stand
Isiaih28@18
The covenant was annulled. You cannot say that we are to obey Ten Commandments in our head instead of ten commandments cwritten down. They condemned the Apostle Pasul
That talks of disciples people who are already Christians
We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels 1Tim1:9
For if those who live by law are heirs faith has no value and the promise is worthless, because law brings wrath. Rom4:14
Thatv says live by notice.
What then was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgression untiil the seed to whom the ppromise refered had come Gal3:19
Before this faith came we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law Gal3:23&24
All who rely7 on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written. Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written ion the book of the law. Clearly no-one is justified by God before the law, because the righteous will live by faith. Gal3:10&11
You covenant with death will be annulled
your agreement with the grave will not stand
Isiaih28@18
The covenant was annulled. You cannot say that we are to obey Ten Commandments in our head instead of ten commandments cwritten down. They condemned the Apostle Pasul