When did the Law expire?
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Paul, "For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when He comes? Is it not you? Indeed, you are our glory and joy.” Th. 2:19
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Who is denying it?
And no, you can not focus on both, you focus on one or the other..
Adam had a Commandment from God Gen 2v16 which he did not obey....that is not innocence whatever else it was.
YOU and I may say the law/commandments are not abolished but christianity in general teaches it.
And the greek definition is immaterial to me....it's scripture that counts.
It's because I don't study the 10 commandments - I study about Christ who has redeemed us from the law of Moses, we have died to the Law of Moses, been released from the Law of Moses and NOT under the Law of Moses anymore. Whenever I read the Old Covenant - I look to see Jesus in it as it is a mere shadow of which Christ Himself is the real substance.
The 10 commandments are a part of the Old Covenant just like the sacrificial system is. I do agree that the intent of the 10 commandments are fulfilled in us who are in Christ and expressed in and through us as Jesus bears His fruit in our lives. Walking in the love of God that is poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit will fulfill all the true intent of the commandments.
This is why Jesus elevated the Law of Moses to reflect what it really is - He did this by saying "If you even lust after someone - you have committed adultery, if you have anger - you have murdered"...etc.
Our natural mind hears that someone saying that we are not under the law of Moses anymore including the 10 commandments and it mind says - "What? ..does that mean we can murder now?" The new creation in Christ will stop all that craziness from happening as we walk by the spirit and not the flesh. His life bearing fruit in us compels us to walk in love which is the fulfillment of the whole Law.
The whole Law is spiritual and holy and only Christ can and has fulfilled the law of Moses. We walk in newness of life in Him now. It's a whole new shift from "obeying rules" to "living a life of love in Christ".
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
1 I never said they were abolished, so please. Stop with the accusations, and try to listen to what people say.
2 You said sin was trangression of the law. Are you going to stick with it. Or have you admitted you were wrong?
3. The Greek definition is what it was written in, IT IS HOW YOU MUST INTERPRET IT. unless of course, you think God made a mistake, and should have had it written in another language? There is a reason he wrote it in greek..
Have it your way. If you can't let all things work together you keep them separate...but you should not make it into a doctrine, it's just for you !
Jesus said that, so it must be true.
Tie God's hands? Man makes the decision to stay/leave. It's not tying God's hands. When Adam chose to sin, did God's hands get tied? God respects the decisions of men, no matter how bad they are.
Well, I happen to believe that God loves the world just like Jesus said He does.
It seems natural that in order to be blotted out of God's book of Life - one must be in it in the first place.
This means to me that He wants everyone to repent and come to Christ so that they can be with Him forever. In His mind He has them all in the book of Life until they reject Christ - then they are blotted out because only Jesus is Life. He is a good loving Father.
John 3:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Ephesians 2:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
This may conflict with some people's church teachings and traditions but hey - it happens to all of us. We are free to believe what we want in this area and of course people are free to say someone else's belief is heretical because it conflicts with mine too. All is well...The Lord has it all under control....
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Whoa....I never said YOU abolished it....I said PEOPLE (in general) read mor carefully.
And my Bible is not in greek, it's in english and it says :'sin is the transgression of the law'. That is what I go by, is that alright with you ? I don't have to interpret anything, 1Joh 3v4 is perfectly clear !
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Have it your way, if you think you can focus on the law and serve others at the same time, You are mistaken. And are in danger of doing the very thing which God Israel in trouble to begin with, and focus on Gods law. And not on God himself.
They became self righteous hypocrites who thought they were good, and doing Gods will, when they missed the point that the law convicted them as sinners, and apart from Gods servant, who would come remove there sin, they were without hope.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Your English bible is flawed. Is n0t inspired by God, and uses a poor language to try to interpret a beautiful language.
There is a reason God did not write the word in English.
Yes, It says sin is transgression of the law. That is ONE of the definitions. But it is not the only definition. The term "sin" itself has a definition. And if you really want, "All have sinned and MISSED TH ELARK, or FALLEN SHORT of Gods glory. So there, It is in English also.
You don't know? Whose servant is he?
When you answer that question, it will all become clear.
T
TheSearcherMan
Guest
"This means to me that He wants everyone to repent and come to Christ"
Under your beliefs, what does one repent from? Why would I ever pray for forgivenesses if I am no longer bound by any Laws or Commandments? Where is sin under your beliefs? Basically, you seem to be saying it is as if sin no longer existed?
Also, I hold no hateful feelings or disrespect towards you or your beliefs. It's all cool, possibly a learning experience for me. In time, we will see.
Under your beliefs, what does one repent from? Why would I ever pray for forgivenesses if I am no longer bound by any Laws or Commandments? Where is sin under your beliefs? Basically, you seem to be saying it is as if sin no longer existed?
Also, I hold no hateful feelings or disrespect towards you or your beliefs. It's all cool, possibly a learning experience for me. In time, we will see.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. This is how I look at sin too. Exactly. And honestly, it was very soon after I met God that He showed me this, that sin was IN me and that if I thought I was keeping the law, I most assuredly was not meeting its' standards. It is to be a Pharisee to think I have not murdered. Not only that, but it's agreeing with and embracing the wisdom of the world instead of the true and pure Wisdom of God.
There are many different ditches satan gets us into. I used to think it was only me getting me into those ditches. But the truth is, it was a combination mostly. He can see where we are and at what stage and he knows every single thing to suggest to us that will help us into that ditch. Anyway, the ditch I fell into was not a ditch that everyone falls into. There are a lot of different ditches. The one I fell into was the same one of the Galatians. But it was not simple and it cannot be explained in a few words or a sentence. It wasn't just one imperfection that helped me into that ditch, it was many imperfections and wrong thoughts and understandings. And so He had to change my thoughts and understanding on many things before I could truly be got up out of it.
I wanted to be good very, very badly. I knew He expected me to be good and walk uprightly and in holiness. I could say I just didn't understand that sanctification ALSO was by faith alone and that I loved Him and this was why I wanted to be good and tried so hard to be. But it isn't completely true. The fact is, I didn't really love Him with all my heart and that it was pride and a desire to not give up my self life that helped me to get into the ditch of self effort for so long. I wanted to be good while at the same time retaining my life and my rights. But that is not love. It is self seeking and it is demanding my own. It is not loving God with all my heart and picking up my cross.
That's only the tip of the iceberg as to my imperfections and misunderstandings. But I never fell into a ditch of thinking I would just go on being this way until I died. He showed me time and time again, how miserable I truly was and how bad my case was. But after a time of sorrow and repentance and humiliations, He had humbled me to a point where He could lift me up. Until I knew and saw just how bad my case was, and could see it in others also but without despising them as if it wasn't also in me, and realizing that I would never succeed in fixing it, I finally...broke? to all my own efforts and saw they weren't love, they were self seeking and pride, and I admitted I would remain bad unless He did something and so I prayed for Him to make me good and to give me victory over these awful and ugly giants in me. And I began to see some victory and was able to, at times, lay down my self life and pride in order to put another first. But here was another ditch. And some fall into it too. And some don't.
I have probably not made any sense...I should stop because I am very capable of going on for a few more hours.
You used this one scripture against several? I'd put my 'likes' on it too..... cause it needs every bit of help it can get to look credible.
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FreeNChrist
Guest
You used this one scripture against several? I'd put my 'likes' on it too..... cause it needs every bit of help it can get to look credible.
It only took one to disprove your premise.
EG, I have seen growing love in you. I have seen your growth over the last few months. I have seen you understand that defense of doctrine, no matter how good or right it may be, is no excuse for ceasing to walk in love, respecting all men because God wants none to perish. I have seen you go from answering a blow with a blow to refusing to do so, which is laying down your life for another so your Savior can be seen by people instead of them seeing you.
Good morning EG. Over time I am beginning to understand your approach.
One can polarise people into one of two camps or start to understand their reference points.
The difficulty with sin is simple, it is God who defines it, because it is a name for things that
express our separation from Him. Which is the sin, adultery the act, or the look that started
the interaction, or the first thought, or the first choice to act on the thought, or even the
openness to such behaviour. Or as you would put it, looking at self or looking at God, whatever
this really means.
In your view sin becomes the act of being human in a mortal world. In my view God is defining
the act as the fruit of the whole process, the act of destruction being worthy of judgement. To
break the inevitable process that works to acts of sin, is find ones dwelling with Christ.
God appears to be saying in Christ, you are my people, holy and acceptable, washed and pure.
It is sinful acts that defile, driven from behaviour traits that are wrong. Sorting out the heart
and what you focus on changes ones behaviour. Jesus was always interested in what is in our
hearts, how this is the centre of everything we do. It is why purity, blamelessness etc. need
to become part of who we are.
But I think you would feel this is sinful to even think about because it is dwelling on self
and trying to save yourself through consciously looking at the heart rather than leaving it all
to God, like having a dirty house and asking a cleaner to clean it for you.
My response to this would be by not dealing with ones own heart and what you dwell on and
think about, is denying the power of love and the need for repentance, confession and active
change of behaviour based on letting the Lord be the King of our lives. It involves choice at
its core, moral decisions that make a difference and learning to love, empathise and feel with
people, not just respond to the externals.
Do you understand where I am coming from?
By the way I am not trying to attack your position or who you are, I am merely defining different
approaches and why they have different outcomes and seem to generate miss-understanding.