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You don't know the woman's heart, you don't know what or if God instructed this woman to do what she did. You don't know if this was an ectopic pregnancy. All you know is what you selectively read and judged her with your limited knowledge of the scenario. "Baby dead, woman bad."
Maybe she totally went against the Spirit of God, maybe she made a terrible decision, maybe she did what she thought God was instructing her to do... who knows. What we know from what she posted is that she wanted her daughter to be fruitful, we know the doctors told her of her daughter's imminent excruciatingly painful death, and we know she would have had dangerous complications as a result. Make the argument that she should have allowed God to intervene and perform a miracle that could have been used to testify of God's love and awesomeness to the unbelievers of the world... That's a legitimate point. Blasting her and making unfounded judgments of this women out of pure ignorance is not a legitimate case.
Maybe she totally went against the Spirit of God, maybe she made a terrible decision, maybe she did what she thought God was instructing her to do... who knows. What we know from what she posted is that she wanted her daughter to be fruitful, we know the doctors told her of her daughter's imminent excruciatingly painful death, and we know she would have had dangerous complications as a result. Make the argument that she should have allowed God to intervene and perform a miracle that could have been used to testify of God's love and awesomeness to the unbelievers of the world... That's a legitimate point. Blasting her and making unfounded judgments of this women out of pure ignorance is not a legitimate case.
Right, because God would never command anyone to kill children/babies. I guess God really didn't test Abraham. I guess 1 Samuel 15:2-3 isn't really part of the bible. Is it possible? I suppose it is. Probable? Not sure... Why show your ignorance and condemn someone when you don't have all the facts?
I know you're showing aggression and frustration with people who differ from you, but your issue isn't really with me but with the word of God. It gives examples of God working in ways we may not fully comprehend. As you know, God's ways aren't our ways or our thoughts His thoughts. I know I know... how asinine of me to apply the bible appropriately with this topic.
I know you're showing aggression and frustration with people who differ from you, but your issue isn't really with me but with the word of God. It gives examples of God working in ways we may not fully comprehend. As you know, God's ways aren't our ways or our thoughts His thoughts. I know I know... how asinine of me to apply the bible appropriately with this topic.
Right, earlier in this thread I pointed out that there is technically a chance the unborn child can carry to full term in ectopic pregnancies. It's incredibly rare though... Nevertheless, people still made the claim it's murder.
I've not condoned or condemned the woman though. I think condemnation is for God. If she is a christian, and she did this thinking it was what God wanted her to do but was in error, then her sin is covered by the blood of Jesus Christ. Many people take exception to this... Utah feels that by stating this we become "abortion apologists." I call it understanding the atonement of Jesus Christ...
I've not condoned or condemned the woman though. I think condemnation is for God. If she is a christian, and she did this thinking it was what God wanted her to do but was in error, then her sin is covered by the blood of Jesus Christ. Many people take exception to this... Utah feels that by stating this we become "abortion apologists." I call it understanding the atonement of Jesus Christ...
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Firstly, God never intended that Abraham would actually kill Isaac. He was testing Abraham to see two things: did Abraham love God more than his own son and did he have faith in God. The faith that Abraham is credited with is that he trusted that God would raise Isaac from the dead.
Why would God want us to kill our baby? If he wanted Abraham to show faith that he believed that God would raise his son from the dead, doesn't it follow that God would rather have us trust him that he could save our baby from an at risk pregnancy?
Also, when God did command the Israelites to destroy the children of the Canaan tribes it was a judgement on the sin and idolatry of their parents. He also wanted these wicked nations to be obliterated and no longer exist. If this woman is a Christian minister, her child doesn't need to share in her judgement. Not to mention, that under the New Covenant, God does not visit the sins of the parents onto their children. There is never a time that God would tell a parent to kill their baby or child.
Why would God want us to kill our baby? If he wanted Abraham to show faith that he believed that God would raise his son from the dead, doesn't it follow that God would rather have us trust him that he could save our baby from an at risk pregnancy?
Also, when God did command the Israelites to destroy the children of the Canaan tribes it was a judgement on the sin and idolatry of their parents. He also wanted these wicked nations to be obliterated and no longer exist. If this woman is a Christian minister, her child doesn't need to share in her judgement. Not to mention, that under the New Covenant, God does not visit the sins of the parents onto their children. There is never a time that God would tell a parent to kill their baby or child.
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Of course, hence I used the term "tested Abraham". Nevertheless, God did command Abraham to kill his son. We can say "Oh no, God wouldn't ever do..." but we shouldn't ever put God in a box. Do disagree?
You're missing the point. There is a precedent where God has commanded His children to do things that most every day people would object to. How are we to know what God tells someone else if He isn't telling us directly? I'm not saying God told this woman to make that decision... I just point out that it's a possibility. To deny the possibility would be to deny portions of the bible. We call this cherry-picking.
If this woman errored, and she did it thinking she was doing the right thing, the blood of Jesus Christ covers her. Thank God for loving us so much he sent his only begotten Son to atone for our sins to pave a way back to Him.
You're missing the point. There is a precedent where God has commanded His children to do things that most every day people would object to. How are we to know what God tells someone else if He isn't telling us directly? I'm not saying God told this woman to make that decision... I just point out that it's a possibility. To deny the possibility would be to deny portions of the bible. We call this cherry-picking.
If this woman errored, and she did it thinking she was doing the right thing, the blood of Jesus Christ covers her. Thank God for loving us so much he sent his only begotten Son to atone for our sins to pave a way back to Him.
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Okay, I will play along. What is the object here of God telling this woman to abort her fetus? If God commands us to do something there is always something of a higher value at stake. What great act of faith does this woman show for saving her own life at the expense of her child's? If anything, her abortion shows that she values her own life more.
Once again, the story of Abraham is unique and the only one like this recorded in Scripture. Isaac was no ordinary child. He was the promise child. It was from him that Abraham was to be the father of a multitude. Abraham knew that and knew that God had promised him that he would be the father of many nations. Not once for a second did Abraham believe that Isaac would not be raised from the dead. He even says to his servants that he and the lad will return after offering a sacrifice. The whole purpose of this story was to foretell the plan of redemption. What great mystery of faith is being revealed to future generations by a mother aborting her fetus? None. God doesn't do anything by whim or capriciousness. There is always something of value for humanity at stake when he gives commands. So, no, abortion advances humanity in no sense. God would not command us to have one. We can't limit God, but we can understand his nature and character as revealed to us through Scripture.
Once again, the story of Abraham is unique and the only one like this recorded in Scripture. Isaac was no ordinary child. He was the promise child. It was from him that Abraham was to be the father of a multitude. Abraham knew that and knew that God had promised him that he would be the father of many nations. Not once for a second did Abraham believe that Isaac would not be raised from the dead. He even says to his servants that he and the lad will return after offering a sacrifice. The whole purpose of this story was to foretell the plan of redemption. What great mystery of faith is being revealed to future generations by a mother aborting her fetus? None. God doesn't do anything by whim or capriciousness. There is always something of value for humanity at stake when he gives commands. So, no, abortion advances humanity in no sense. God would not command us to have one. We can't limit God, but we can understand his nature and character as revealed to us through Scripture.
The phrase "Putting God in a box" is used a lot by many people, but they forget one thing. God establishes what He will do and what He will not do. He already tells us these things in the bible. If He did go outside of what He has told us, then He would be a hypocrite. The example of Abraham and Isaac was indeed a test. Abraham was willing to sacrifice His child for the love of God and that was the point God was making. Note how God did intervene in the end and tell Abraham not to kill Isaac. This biblical example does not fit the current situation.
Indeed, if we repent of our sins to the Lord as a new creation, then yes, He does forgive us our sins by the blood of Jesus Christ and we are covered. This is an important distinctive dynamic of grace we have in the new covenant.
Indeed, if we repent of our sins to the Lord as a new creation, then yes, He does forgive us our sins by the blood of Jesus Christ and we are covered. This is an important distinctive dynamic of grace we have in the new covenant.
God may or may not be going against what he told "us". It depends on who the "us" is. Some people interpret God's word one way, while another group interprets it a far different way. Maybe one interpretation is correct, or maybe all are incorrect. The Holy Spirit and God do not contradict, yet why do we have so many differing brands of Christianity? It could just mean while we think we know it all, we really don't. For this reason, condemnation is better left for God. He can judge justly and perfectly. I'm incapable of that as there are so many variables, as Elizabeth says, that are unknown.
Absolutely brother. If she is truly a daughter of God, she can/is made clean. Totally agree. We are truly blessed for the atonement of Jesus Christ.
Absolutely brother. If she is truly a daughter of God, she can/is made clean. Totally agree. We are truly blessed for the atonement of Jesus Christ.