Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?
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What your doing jaybird is making an argument from silence when you say, "why is it not discussed anywhere else in the passage." Why does it need to be when you have an explicit statement from Thomas declaring Jesus Christ to be his "Lord and God." Why is that not good enough for you? Would you believe Jesus if He came right out and said the exact words, "I am God?" Your just like the Pharisees jaybird? Remember what Jesus said to the Pharisees at John 10:37-38? "if I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; vs38, but if I do them, though you do not bleieve Me, believe the works that you may know and understand that the Fathe is in Me, and I in the Father."
You also brought up John 20:31 which is good and which was the Apostle John's authorial intent of the gospel of John. What's interesting about John" intent regarding vs31 is this was the very question that the high priest Caiaphas ask Jesus at His trial at Matthew 26:63. "But Jesus kept silent, And the high priest said to Him/Jesus, "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God."
The high priest is asking Jesus to swear as to His identity. In other words, Caiaphas is asking the one person of Jesus Christ two questions? That's what that word "whether" means in the verse. Are you the Christ/Messiah and are you the Son of God? Why in the world would the Jews want to know if Jesus is the Son of God when they themselves believe they are sons of God as well? And secondly, why is being the Son of God considered blasphemy? This is what Jesus was accused of and excusted for the charge of blasphemy. So you tell me jaybird, did Jesus commit the crime of blasphemy according to the Levitical law at Leviticus 24:16?
And btw at Luke 22:70 Jesus says three words to the question Caiaphas ask Him. "Yes, I am." So I ask you jaybird, did Jesus blaspheme or break the law according to the Pharisees? If He did how do you know, if He did not how do you know?
PS: Are you familar with Jewish idiom's? The Jews have tons of idioms and one of them which pertains to our discussion here is the idiom, "the son of." What do you think that means?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
You also brought up John 20:31 which is good and which was the Apostle John's authorial intent of the gospel of John. What's interesting about John" intent regarding vs31 is this was the very question that the high priest Caiaphas ask Jesus at His trial at Matthew 26:63. "But Jesus kept silent, And the high priest said to Him/Jesus, "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God."
The high priest is asking Jesus to swear as to His identity. In other words, Caiaphas is asking the one person of Jesus Christ two questions? That's what that word "whether" means in the verse. Are you the Christ/Messiah and are you the Son of God? Why in the world would the Jews want to know if Jesus is the Son of God when they themselves believe they are sons of God as well? And secondly, why is being the Son of God considered blasphemy? This is what Jesus was accused of and excusted for the charge of blasphemy. So you tell me jaybird, did Jesus commit the crime of blasphemy according to the Levitical law at Leviticus 24:16?
And btw at Luke 22:70 Jesus says three words to the question Caiaphas ask Him. "Yes, I am." So I ask you jaybird, did Jesus blaspheme or break the law according to the Pharisees? If He did how do you know, if He did not how do you know?
PS: Are you familar with Jewish idiom's? The Jews have tons of idioms and one of them which pertains to our discussion here is the idiom, "the son of." What do you think that means? IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
H
Oh please holly, how old are you? Oh there it is, your 34 and all you know is the book of Proverbs? I must of struck a nerve for you to accuse me of being a "fool." I gave nothing but verses to demi in my post and your telling me I know nothing about Proverbs? Those are the "many" words I gave her and your complaining like a child that I'm "badgering" her.
Now, how about you back up what your saying when you said the following? "I support my understanding." Please tell me what you understanding is of the verses I provided? What did the Holy Spirit tell you what the verses mean that contradict my understanding? And one last thing? You "DO NOT" know the operation of one's mind which means you can't know my movtives by me just posting verses from the Bible and encouraging someone to take the verses seriously. Instead you butt in sitting on your high horse and call me a fool.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Now, how about you back up what your saying when you said the following? "I support my understanding." Please tell me what you understanding is of the verses I provided? What did the Holy Spirit tell you what the verses mean that contradict my understanding? And one last thing? You "DO NOT" know the operation of one's mind which means you can't know my movtives by me just posting verses from the Bible and encouraging someone to take the verses seriously. Instead you butt in sitting on your high horse and call me a fool.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
He doesn't behave like that. You clearly have a warped sense of who He is.
Well I'm sorry you feel that way holley? And I'm not helping God out, He's helping me because I'm just a "vessel" to speak out against sin in whatever form it takes including the confronting of false teachers and even exposing them like Ephesians 5:11 states.
I gave legitimate verses about the Christians job and one of his roles in this upholstered cesspool we call earth and you tell me I'm a fool, arrogant, full of pride and I don't know God. If you do not "HATE" sin in whatever form then there is something wrong with YOUR Christanity. Let me remind you of what the Apostle Paul stated, "Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I DID NOT CEASE TO ADMONISH EACH ONE WITH TEARS." Acts 20:31.
Your 34 years old and you have (hopefully) a lot of years left to be a useful vessel for the Lord God Jesus Christ. As Tom Hanks said in the movie "Saving Private Ryan" with his last breath, "Earn it." Do the right thing and make your life count because your calling as a Christian are other people.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
I gave legitimate verses about the Christians job and one of his roles in this upholstered cesspool we call earth and you tell me I'm a fool, arrogant, full of pride and I don't know God. If you do not "HATE" sin in whatever form then there is something wrong with YOUR Christanity. Let me remind you of what the Apostle Paul stated, "Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I DID NOT CEASE TO ADMONISH EACH ONE WITH TEARS." Acts 20:31.
Your 34 years old and you have (hopefully) a lot of years left to be a useful vessel for the Lord God Jesus Christ. As Tom Hanks said in the movie "Saving Private Ryan" with his last breath, "Earn it." Do the right thing and make your life count because your calling as a Christian are other people.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
You misunderstand my point jaybird. Let me give you an example of an argument from silence to prove the point I am trying to make. The argument goes this way? It explicitly says at John 20:28 that Thomas declared Jesus Christ as his "Lord and God." There are groups out there like the JW's, or Unitarians that say that Thomas was not addressing Jesus Christ as his Lord and God but he was addressing God the Father through Jesus Christ. This is the method they use to make void the clear statement of Thomas.
Now comes the "but or besides" argument from them. If Thomas meant to call Jesus Christ his Lord and God how come none of the disciples or anybody else for that matter in the book of Acts says Jesus Christ is God? Where is it declared in the book of Acts? Afterall, this is when the church was established and surely someone would have stated that Jesus is God?
In other words, no one can present proof/evidence of a NEGATVE assertion such as, "There is no record in the book of Acts that says Jesus Christ is God." Only positive assertions can even possibly be proven and as such only positive assertions bear any burden of proof. In short, an argument from silence is where the conclusion is based on the absence of evidence, rather than the existence of evidence. Thomas made a clear declaration that Jesus Christ was his "Lord and God" and it was based on the fact that Jesus Christ resurrected.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Now comes the "but or besides" argument from them. If Thomas meant to call Jesus Christ his Lord and God how come none of the disciples or anybody else for that matter in the book of Acts says Jesus Christ is God? Where is it declared in the book of Acts? Afterall, this is when the church was established and surely someone would have stated that Jesus is God?
In other words, no one can present proof/evidence of a NEGATVE assertion such as, "There is no record in the book of Acts that says Jesus Christ is God." Only positive assertions can even possibly be proven and as such only positive assertions bear any burden of proof. In short, an argument from silence is where the conclusion is based on the absence of evidence, rather than the existence of evidence. Thomas made a clear declaration that Jesus Christ was his "Lord and God" and it was based on the fact that Jesus Christ resurrected.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
You misunderstand my point jaybird. Let me give you an example of an argument from silence to prove the point I am trying to make. The argument goes this way? It explicitly says at John 20:28 that Thomas declared Jesus Christ as his "Lord and God." There are groups out there like the JW's, or Unitarians that say that Thomas was not addressing Jesus Christ as his Lord and God but he was addressing God the Father through Jesus Christ. This is the method they use to make void the clear statement of Thomas.
Now comes the "but or besides" argument from them. If Thomas meant to call Jesus Christ his Lord and God how come none of the disciples or anybody else for that matter in the book of Acts says Jesus Christ is God? Where is it declared in the book of Acts? Afterall, this is when the church was established and surely someone would have stated that Jesus is God?
In other words, no one can present proof/evidence of a NEGATVE assertion such as, "There is no record in the book of Acts that says Jesus Christ is God." Only positive assertions can even possibly be proven and as such only positive assertions bear any burden of proof. In short, an argument from silence is where the conclusion is based on the absence of evidence, rather than the existence of evidence. Thomas made a clear declaration that Jesus Christ was his "Lord and God" and it was based on the fact that Jesus Christ resurrected.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Now comes the "but or besides" argument from them. If Thomas meant to call Jesus Christ his Lord and God how come none of the disciples or anybody else for that matter in the book of Acts says Jesus Christ is God? Where is it declared in the book of Acts? Afterall, this is when the church was established and surely someone would have stated that Jesus is God?
In other words, no one can present proof/evidence of a NEGATVE assertion such as, "There is no record in the book of Acts that says Jesus Christ is God." Only positive assertions can even possibly be proven and as such only positive assertions bear any burden of proof. In short, an argument from silence is where the conclusion is based on the absence of evidence, rather than the existence of evidence. Thomas made a clear declaration that Jesus Christ was his "Lord and God" and it was based on the fact that Jesus Christ resurrected.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Thank you valiant for that verse. I gave that verse to poster holly the other day and still no response. I just want to say that even if that verse was quoted the Jw's and unitarians already have an argument against it. They say Acts 20:28 means not God's blood but "the blood of his own," meaning Jesus Christ who according to them is not God. Of course Greek Scholar A.T Robertson easily refutes that position here. Keep up the good work.
With his own blood (δια — dia tou haimatos tou idiou). Through the agency of (του τεου — dia) his own blood. Whose blood? If tou theou (Aleph B Vulg.) is correct, as it is, then Jesus is here called “God” who shed his own blood for the flock. It will not do to say that Paul did not call Jesus God, for we have Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Titus 2:13 where he does that very thing, besides Colossians 1:15-20; Philemon 2:5-11.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
With his own blood (δια — dia tou haimatos tou idiou). Through the agency of (του τεου — dia) his own blood. Whose blood? If tou theou (Aleph B Vulg.) is correct, as it is, then Jesus is here called “God” who shed his own blood for the flock. It will not do to say that Paul did not call Jesus God, for we have Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Titus 2:13 where he does that very thing, besides Colossians 1:15-20; Philemon 2:5-11.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Thomas knew that the Father (who is God) spoke directly “through” Christ. Jesus Himself said that He spoke via the commands of His Father.
John 12:49-50 - For I have not spoken on My own, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a command as to what I should say and what I should speak. I know that His command is eternal life. So the things that I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”
Here’s a few more examples of Jesus saying that it is the Father who is speaking and teaching “through” Jesus.
John 14:10 - Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I speak to you I do not speak on My own. The Father who lives in Me does His works.
John 5:19 - Then Jesus replied, “I assure you: The Son is not able to do anything on His own, but only what He sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does these things in the same way.
John 14:24 - The one who doesn’t love Me will not keep My words. The word that you hear is not Mine but is from the Father who sent Me.
Thomas knew that it was God who was speaking “through” his Lord Jesus. This is why he said “my Lord and my God”. The Father was with, and spoke through Christ. The apostles had known this ever since Jesus revealed it to them.
John 14:7-8 - “Lord,” said Philip, “show us the Father, and that’s enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been among you all this time without your knowing Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Both single and tri-person God identifiers do not believe that Jesus and the Father are the same person. This is not what Jesus meant by John 14:7-8 though. He was simply letting them know that they had already been having direct mediation with the Father “through” Himself. Thomas realized this, and it is why he spoke those words.
John 12:49-50 - For I have not spoken on My own, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a command as to what I should say and what I should speak. I know that His command is eternal life. So the things that I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”
Here’s a few more examples of Jesus saying that it is the Father who is speaking and teaching “through” Jesus.
John 14:10 - Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I speak to you I do not speak on My own. The Father who lives in Me does His works.
John 5:19 - Then Jesus replied, “I assure you: The Son is not able to do anything on His own, but only what He sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does these things in the same way.
John 14:24 - The one who doesn’t love Me will not keep My words. The word that you hear is not Mine but is from the Father who sent Me.
Thomas knew that it was God who was speaking “through” his Lord Jesus. This is why he said “my Lord and my God”. The Father was with, and spoke through Christ. The apostles had known this ever since Jesus revealed it to them.
John 14:7-8 - “Lord,” said Philip, “show us the Father, and that’s enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been among you all this time without your knowing Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Both single and tri-person God identifiers do not believe that Jesus and the Father are the same person. This is not what Jesus meant by John 14:7-8 though. He was simply letting them know that they had already been having direct mediation with the Father “through” Himself. Thomas realized this, and it is why he spoke those words.
Well sword can you please explain why the Apostle Peter did not get the "memo" that God the Father was just speaking through Jesus Christ at 2 Pter 1:1? "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, (how did they receive the same kind of faith sword?) by the righteousness of OUR GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST."
And btw, did it ever occur to you why Jeusu Christ said He was speaking what the God the Father taught Him? Or why Jesus Christ said, "The Son is not able to do anything on His own, but only what He sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does these things in the same way."
Remeber what Jesus said at John 10:25? "Jesus answered them, I told you, an you do not believe, the works that I do in My Father's name, these bear witness of Me." This goes back to what Jesus said at John 5:36-39, "But the witness that I have is greater than that of John (referring to John the Baptist); for the works has given Me to accomplish, do bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. Vs37, and the Father who sent Me, He has born witness of Me; you have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. Vs38, "And you do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him who He sent. Vs39, You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is these that bear witness of Me."
What is the point Jesus is making sword? Jesus is telling them that it is God the Father (who btw SENT Jesus Christ, from where sword?) and Jesus Christ is saying that His witness is God His Father who gives creditibilty to His mission and His identity as God. Since were in John 5 please look at John 5:18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, (why) because he not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God HIS OWN FATHER, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD." Why don't you believe Jesus sword?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
And btw, did it ever occur to you why Jeusu Christ said He was speaking what the God the Father taught Him? Or why Jesus Christ said, "The Son is not able to do anything on His own, but only what He sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does these things in the same way."
Remeber what Jesus said at John 10:25? "Jesus answered them, I told you, an you do not believe, the works that I do in My Father's name, these bear witness of Me." This goes back to what Jesus said at John 5:36-39, "But the witness that I have is greater than that of John (referring to John the Baptist); for the works has given Me to accomplish, do bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. Vs37, and the Father who sent Me, He has born witness of Me; you have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. Vs38, "And you do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him who He sent. Vs39, You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is these that bear witness of Me."
What is the point Jesus is making sword? Jesus is telling them that it is God the Father (who btw SENT Jesus Christ, from where sword?) and Jesus Christ is saying that His witness is God His Father who gives creditibilty to His mission and His identity as God. Since were in John 5 please look at John 5:18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, (why) because he not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God HIS OWN FATHER, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD." Why don't you believe Jesus sword?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Well sword can you please explain why the Apostle Peter did not get the "memo" that God the Father was just speaking through Jesus Christ at 2 Pter 1:1? "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, (how did they receive the same kind of faith sword?) by the righteousness of OUR GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST."
And btw, did it ever occur to you why Jeusu Christ said He was speaking what the God the Father taught Him? Or why Jesus Christ said, "The Son is not able to do anything on His own, but only what He sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does these things in the same way."
Remeber what Jesus said at John 10:25? "Jesus answered them, I told you, an you do not believe, the works that I do in My Father's name, these bear witness of Me." This goes back to what Jesus said at John 5:36-39, "But the witness that I have is greater than that of John (referring to John the Baptist); for the works has given Me to accomplish, do bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. Vs37, and the Father who sent Me, He has born witness of Me; you have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. Vs38, "And you do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him who He sent. Vs39, You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is these that bear witness of Me."
What is the point Jesus is making sword? Jesus is telling them that it is God the Father (who btw SENT Jesus Christ, from where sword?) and Jesus Christ is saying that His witness is God His Father who gives creditibilty to His mission and His identity as God. Since were in John 5 please look at John 5:18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, (why) because he not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God HIS OWN FATHER, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD." Why don't you believe Jesus sword?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
And btw, did it ever occur to you why Jeusu Christ said He was speaking what the God the Father taught Him? Or why Jesus Christ said, "The Son is not able to do anything on His own, but only what He sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does these things in the same way."
Remeber what Jesus said at John 10:25? "Jesus answered them, I told you, an you do not believe, the works that I do in My Father's name, these bear witness of Me." This goes back to what Jesus said at John 5:36-39, "But the witness that I have is greater than that of John (referring to John the Baptist); for the works has given Me to accomplish, do bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. Vs37, and the Father who sent Me, He has born witness of Me; you have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. Vs38, "And you do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him who He sent. Vs39, You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is these that bear witness of Me."
What is the point Jesus is making sword? Jesus is telling them that it is God the Father (who btw SENT Jesus Christ, from where sword?) and Jesus Christ is saying that His witness is God His Father who gives creditibilty to His mission and His identity as God. Since were in John 5 please look at John 5:18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, (why) because he not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God HIS OWN FATHER, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD." Why don't you believe Jesus sword?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
2 Peter 1:1 Interlinear: Simeon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who did obtain a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:
Also, I was trying to post this before I got sidetracked again. Regarding Thomas’s remarks of “my Lord and my God”. While I personally view it as being possible that Thomas was addressing two persons, there is also the likely possibility that he is still talking only to Jesus. You don’t have to believe that Jesus is being referred to as the “Most High” God. Rather, that he is the personal god (or ruler) over Thomas. This is because of the personal “of me” in the original Greek.
John 20:28 Interlinear: And Thomas answered and said to him, 'My Lord and my God;'
To your last point, I too believe that we are saved through Christ. I also believe that Jesus bears record of His Father, but for you to say that God gave credibility to His Son for His mission and identity as God…well that’s your personal assumption. Jesus only claimed to be the Son. This is what He said. Never did claim to be God or an equal partner thereof.
You asked me why I don’t “believe Jesus” about being equal with God…I think that you meant why don’t I believe what the “Jews thought” about Jesus being equal with God. However, I already addressed this on page 62, post 1234.
J
so He was one then changed to 3 in 1? not sure about that one. lets go back to Mark:
Mark 12 29
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “The most important is, [SUP](AY)[/SUP]‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, [SUP](AZ)[/SUP]the Lord is one. [SUP]30 [/SUP]And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ [SUP]31 [/SUP][SUP](BA)[/SUP]The second is this: [SUP](BB)[/SUP]‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment [SUP](BC)[/SUP]greater than these.” [SUP]32 [/SUP]And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that [SUP](BD)[/SUP]he is one, and [SUP](BE)[/SUP]there is no other besides him
Jesus could have went straight to the answer, love the Lord, love your fellow man, but He doesent, He states the Shema and builds His answer off that, why would He do that?
same with the scribe, he could have went straight to the discussion on the 2 commands, but he doesnt, he confirms with Jesus on the importance of the Shema proclamation. Jesus doesnt tell the scribe he has much more to learn, to wait on more revelation, rather He tells him
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.”
Mark 12 29
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “The most important is, [SUP](AY)[/SUP]‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, [SUP](AZ)[/SUP]the Lord is one. [SUP]30 [/SUP]And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ [SUP]31 [/SUP][SUP](BA)[/SUP]The second is this: [SUP](BB)[/SUP]‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment [SUP](BC)[/SUP]greater than these.” [SUP]32 [/SUP]And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that [SUP](BD)[/SUP]he is one, and [SUP](BE)[/SUP]there is no other besides him
Jesus could have went straight to the answer, love the Lord, love your fellow man, but He doesent, He states the Shema and builds His answer off that, why would He do that?
same with the scribe, he could have went straight to the discussion on the 2 commands, but he doesnt, he confirms with Jesus on the importance of the Shema proclamation. Jesus doesnt tell the scribe he has much more to learn, to wait on more revelation, rather He tells him
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.”
Bluto I’m curious about something though. Obviously whether inside a single or triune God belief system, you will have further splitting of various doctrinal beliefs. This may include views on the law, Sabbath, death/sleep until resurrection, rapture, etc. I’m just curious how you view the death of Jesus though.
Romans 10:9 - If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For instance, since you believe that Jesus is God, then can God die? And if not, how did Jesus die? Did Jesus really die for your sins, or was He not really dead somehow? Basically, I want to know if you believe that the person of Jesus (whom you identify as God), actually fully died, partially died, or never literally died.
If you say that it was just “Jesus the man” who died, then was there another spiritual Jesus in existence somewhere? Again, I want to know if the “person” of Jesus fully died, and since the “person” of Jesus is identified as being God in your eyes…how can God die and raise Himself in your opinion?
Obviously, I have no issues with Romans 10:9 since I identify God as being the Father, but just want to see where you stand on it, thanks.
Romans 10:9 - If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For instance, since you believe that Jesus is God, then can God die? And if not, how did Jesus die? Did Jesus really die for your sins, or was He not really dead somehow? Basically, I want to know if you believe that the person of Jesus (whom you identify as God), actually fully died, partially died, or never literally died.
If you say that it was just “Jesus the man” who died, then was there another spiritual Jesus in existence somewhere? Again, I want to know if the “person” of Jesus fully died, and since the “person” of Jesus is identified as being God in your eyes…how can God die and raise Himself in your opinion?
Obviously, I have no issues with Romans 10:9 since I identify God as being the Father, but just want to see where you stand on it, thanks.
YHWH "showing His Threeness" is a real piece of fiction! Show me your Scriptural support from the Bible, Jesus or any of His disciples ever taught the doctrine of the Trinity! The Scripture teach that God is the Holy Spirit, in Jn.4:24 and 2 Cor.3:17-18, and that He is the also, the Father, which is His title, in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35. ONE PERSON not TWO! Right there, the Scriptures prove, there is NO SUCH THING as a Trinity!
Quasar92
WOW, I am glad to see so many people have figured out ABBA Father.
The enlightenment on this thread is..... well enlightening
I know I for one can't wait to meet the Father and my Saviour panim el panim (face to face) because that will be the day I will claim to be enlightened after YHWH Elohim reveal Himself to me.
The enlightenment on this thread is..... well enlightening
I know I for one can't wait to meet the Father and my Saviour panim el panim (face to face) because that will be the day I will claim to be enlightened after YHWH Elohim reveal Himself to me.
No quasar, the Trinity is not fiction. God Almighty was one being and has been one being and is one being since before the creation of the worlds and after the everything was created. He revealed Himself as three "DISTINCT PERSONS" in the Bible and the purpose of me starting this thread was to show you how.
So I repeat, the doctrine of the trinity affirms that the God who created time and space is one "BEING, comprised of three simultaneous distinct persons. That is, the being of God is present in three simultaneous personal manifestations. I also repeat that within the pages of the Bible there are three and only three persons identified in the Bible by "His names, His titles, His unique attributes, His unique actions and His worship."
There are ONLY the three persons of the trinity who receives some COMBINATION of the 5 means of identifying and distinguishing God which I listed above. If you can prove me wrong then by all means show me from the Bible. I certaintly can prove without any problem from the Bible that what I stated is true. Do you wanna dance!
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
So I repeat, the doctrine of the trinity affirms that the God who created time and space is one "BEING, comprised of three simultaneous distinct persons. That is, the being of God is present in three simultaneous personal manifestations. I also repeat that within the pages of the Bible there are three and only three persons identified in the Bible by "His names, His titles, His unique attributes, His unique actions and His worship."
There are ONLY the three persons of the trinity who receives some COMBINATION of the 5 means of identifying and distinguishing God which I listed above. If you can prove me wrong then by all means show me from the Bible. I certaintly can prove without any problem from the Bible that what I stated is true. Do you wanna dance!
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
