Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

Quasar92 · Nov 18, 2016

When are you going to open your eyes and mind to how badly you have been deceived by the worst lie perpetrated on the Church by man, the doctrine of the Trinity, that neither the Bible, Jesus or His disciples ever taught, popeye? My posts 1474, 5 and 7 are fully supported by Scripture and are not coming from any concepts of my own. Let me see your Scriptural argument proving any part of it is false, or yours is!

Quasar92

bluto · Nov 18, 2016

Quasar92 said:

So quasar, can you please tell us all here what is YOUR definition of the Trinity as you understand it? And please, don't refer me to some post of yours. Just tell me in your own words.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Quasar92 · Nov 18, 2016

Critique Of Augustine's Trinitarian Theology
Augustine and His Trinity: Modalistic Monarchianism and Tritheism
Unwittingly Embracing Two Contradictory Propositions Without Apology or Explanation
Introducing the Indictment
By: Dan Mages

Introducing the Indictment
The problem seems clear enough. The orthodox speak of three different entities, three separate beings, Augustine uses the word persons, to describe the three. Yet does not the language he uses communicate three gods just as clearly as if he would have said, Zeus spoke from heaven, Hercules died and rose again, and Hermes came in the form of a dove?

When these names of Greek mythology figures are substituted for Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, it becomes all the more clear that Augustine is thinking of three gods, but refuses to admit it because this would directly contradict Scripture’s monotheistic affirmation as found in the Shema.

In fact, this is his frank acknowledgment,
…why do we not also say three Gods?…Is it because Scripture does not say three Gods? But neither do we find that Scripture anywhere mentions three persons…it was lawful through the mere necessity of speaking and reasoning to say three persons, not because Scripture says it, but because Scripture does not contradict it: whereas, if we were to say three Gods, Scripture would contradict it, which says, ‘Hear, O Israel; the Lord thy God is one God?’

It is supremely unfortunate that Augustine felt the need to escape the logical implications of his own viewpoint and embrace a word just so that he could say something instead of nothing. Augustine candidly admits:

Yet, when the question is asked, What three? human language labors altogether under great poverty of speech. The answer, however, is given, three ‘persons,’ not that it might be [completely] spoken, but that it might not be left [wholly] unspoken.
At this point, I would think that as a scholar and a linguist, Augustine would have just acknowledged that he found three God’s in Scripture instead of playing word games and language tricks. His inexplicable proposition that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet there are not three Gods, unmistakably defies the laws of logic. There are plainly three Gods if this is the case, regardless if Augustine claims the contrary.

Millard Erickson quotes Christian logician Steven Davis who summarizes the serious difficulty:

1. The Father is God.
2. The Son is God.
3. The Holy Spirit is God.
4. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit
is not the Father.

5. There is one and only one God.
The problem is that these statements seem to constitute an inconsistent set, that is, a set of statements not all of whose members can be true. This can be shown easily,
Since, 1,2,3 and 5 entail:

6. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one thing.
And 4 entails:

7.The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are separate things.
Since 6 and 7 are obviously inconsistent, 1-5 must be an inconsistent set of statements, in which case they cannot rationally be believed. If Christians are required to affirm both 6 and 7, as it seems they must, it then appears to be the case that they are obliged to contradict themselves…The truth of one premise, namely, ‘God is one,’ seems to imply the falsity of the other, namely, ‘God is three.’ How to resolve this tension has been the logical problem of the Trinity.’10

Phillip Carey notes, the doctrine literally does not add up. Nicene doctrine names three distinct individual beings as God and then says they don’t add up to three Gods. Hence Nicene theologians must say God is beyond counting, beyond number – and thus beyond rational understanding. This was, however, a very common thing to say about God in the Platonist philosophical tradition.11

Driven into an inexplicable linguistic safe haven, Augustine seems to stretch the rules of language12 in order to not concede to his theological contemporaries, whom he seems to demonize by calling them heretics. “What therefore remains, except that we confess that these terms sprang from the necessity of speaking, when copious reasoning was required.

[EDIT by Quasar92] The above is only a small portion of this article that describes how Augustine developed the Trinity. Though lengthy, it serves to clearly reveal why the Trinity can never be proven by the Scriptures and is a recommended source for everyone to read, for a better understanding of how it came about, at the following:
[No longer on line}

HOWEVER, THE SCRIPTURES DO REVEAL THE TRUE DESCRIPTION OF WHO AND WHAT GOD IS THAT CONTRADICT THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY!

God is Spirit: Jn.1:18; Rom.1:20; 2 Cor.3:17-18; Col.1:15; 1 Tim.1:17; 1 Tim.6:16 Heb.11.27 and 1 Jn.4:12.
God is Holy: Lev.11:44-45; Lev.19:2; Isa.43:3; Jos.24:19; 1 Sam.2:2; Job 6:10; Ps.99:3 and 1 Pet.1:15-16.

According to the above, there is no option to the Scriptural fact God is the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is also the Father of Jesus according to Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35.

The origin of the pre-incarnate spirit of the person who later became Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, was brought forth by the Father [Who is the Holy Spirit according to the Scriptures] in Pr.8:22-36, before the world began, the firstborn over all creation, according to Col.1:15. Fulfilling Ps.2:7 and Acts 13:33. Therefore, as the above Scriptures prove, there is no option to the fact the Holy Spirit is the Father of Jesus!

Trinitarians declare God, whom the Scriptures reveal to be the Holy Spirit and the Father, to be two separate persons. Yet Insist Jesus and the Son are one person ! Since God is the Holy Spirit and Father [His title], are one and the same person, trinitarians insist are two, why don't trinitarians declare Jesus and the Son [His title] in the same way, as a fourth person of their formula, instead of three and have a Quad instead of a Tri Godhead? There is no way for any logical explanation of trinitatianism.

Quasar92

bluto · Nov 18, 2016

Again sword, you misunderstand what I said about the word "an." I explicitly stated that "THE" angel of the Lord does not appear in the NT. When you bring up the word "an" angel said such and such it is not the angel of the Lord. At Acts 7 I told you that Stephen used the word "an" but how he used in context connects the angel of the Lord as God according to Exodus 3.

And when you say, "Just so you know, not all Trinitarians believe that Jesus was the angel of the Lord, for the simple fact that their pre-incarnate Jesus is not someone who is commanded by the Lord, or asks questions saying Lord Almighty. Their Jesus was co-equal prior to incarnation. But there are still a lot who do hold to your view." it does not mean something is true or not true based on a lot of people believe it or not.

You also said the following: "Make no mistake about it though, Jesus is my king, my rock, my Lord, my Savior, the Christ, the Messiah, the Divine Son of God, the way, the truth, and the life. I know that no man enters unto the Father except through Him." I'm really intrigued by when you said, "the Divine Son of God," What does that mean that Jesus Christ is "Divine" according to you? How is He divine or in what respect is Jesus divine? And please define "divine?"

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

notbythesword · Nov 18, 2016

bluto said:

I also know that just because a lot of people believe in something, it doesn’t make it true. You already know that I don’t adhere to something just because it is the most popular. As for Jesus’ divinity, Jesus is Divine as in being in the closest relationship with the Father. Jesus is not merely flesh and blood, but of a divine/spiritual nature. Jesus is not of this world. Jesus is the Son of God.

garee · Nov 18, 2016

The angel of the Lord is the messenger of the Lord, Christ. As the unseen Son of God is represented by the Son of man,seen, after the corrupted flesh of this world ,Flesh subject to death and returning to the dust like the beast of the field from where his flesh came from .Same in both testaments.The angel. of the Lord, Christ as the main messenger

The word angel, simply meaning “messenger” it is a word not subject to the flesh or without. . It is used of that seen, the bush, that did not burn. The father is not represented by any form, or metaphor .

Below the verse is in respect to that seen. It could be a brother in Christ a person has not met.You might have a gift for them or vice versa .This seeing all gifts are presented as twofold working mutually in both, by the mutual of work of one faith of God, in Christ.

Heb 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Christ is shown represented by fire, as that which consumes either in judgment or cleanses sin.

It is used in the same way as the flaming bush , as it is with a theophany, not containing flesh .

Like that of Melchisedec, used to represent the Son of God (not seen) abiding a priest continually with no beginning and therefore no end.

He used other theophanys for various reasons . But when it came to fulfilling the promise of a demonstration of Christ not seen, it was necessary to use sinful flesh in order to condemn sin in the flesh , a theophany would not work .

The one time demonstration is over, Christ will never appear in the flesh again .

2Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now "henceforth know we him no more".

dcontroversal · Nov 18, 2016

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit<-----Three (3) definite articles speaks volumes

Also, Hebrew->singular, dual (pairs), plural 3 or more...God breathed into Adam the breath of lives<-plural 3 or more as in physical life, intellectual life, spiritual life <----1 yet three aspects!

valiant · Nov 18, 2016

Quasar92 said:

But you are wrong, wrong, wrong. We (and Augustine) speak of three persona in ONE BEING.

so you are wrong on the fundamentals.

Quasar92 · Nov 18, 2016

valiant said:

The Critique of Augustine's Trinitarian theology is not all my composition, including what you call wrong. Of course that part of it is wrong. The Godhead consists of God, who is the Holy Spirit and Father of Jesus Christ. two individuals, not three!

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Nov 19, 2016

bluto said:

I have psted my personsl composition of the Scriptural Description of God several times already on this thread! Where have you been? It fully describes the difference between the teachings in the Bible that describe God and the doctrine of the Trinity, constructed by man! I was a Trinitarian for 45 years until I tired of being asked how to describe it, when neither the Bible, Jesus nor His disciples ever taught it. My studies and research bring you the following facts directly from God's Word!

The Scriptural description of God and how it differs from the doctrine of the Trinity: in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Nov 19, 2016

Surprising admissions that the Trinity isn't in the Bible!

Notice these admissions from a number of reputable sources and authors who, while themselves affirming the Trinity, acknowledge that the word "Trinity" and the doctrine is not found in the Bible.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia acknowledges that "'trinity' is a second-century term found nowhere in the Bible, and the Scriptures present no finished trinitarian statement" (1988, Vol. 4, "Trinity," p. 914). It further states that "church fathers crystallized the doctrine in succeeding centuries"—long after the apostles had passed from the scene.

The HarperCollins Bible Dictionary tells us, "The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the NT [New Testament]" (Paul Achtemeier, editor, 1996, "Trinity").

The HarperCollins Encyclopedia of Catholicism states: "Today, however, scholars generally agree that there is no doctrine of the Trinity as such in either the OT [Old Testament] or the NT [New Testament] . . . It would go far beyond the intention and thought-forms of the OT to suppose that a late-fourth-century or thirteenth-century Christian doctrine can be found there . . . Likewise, the NT does not contain an explicit doctrine of the Trinity" (Richard McBrien, general editor, 1995, "God," pp. 564-565).

The New Encyclopaedia Britannica, in its article on the Trinity, explains: "Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies . . . It was not until the 4th century that the distinctness of the three and their unity were brought together in a single orthodox doctrine of one essence and three persons" (1985 edition, Micropaedia, Vol. 11, p. 928).

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology points out that "primitive Christianity did not have an explicit doctrine of the Trinity such as was subsequently elaborated in the creeds of the early church" (Colin Brown, editor, Vol. 2, 1976, "God," p. 84).

Historian and science fiction writer H.G. Wells, in his noted work The Outline of History, points out, "There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the trinity—at any rate from him" (1920, Vol. 2, p. 499).

Martin Luther, the German priest who initiated the Protestant Reformation, conceded, "It is indeed true that the name 'Trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (reproduced in The Sermons of Martin Luther, John Lenker, editor, Vol. 3, 1988, p. 406).

The Oxford Companion to the Bible states: "Because the Trinity is such an important part of later Christian doctrine, it is striking that the term does not appear in the New Testament. Likewise, the developed concept of three coequal partners in the Godhead found in later creedal formulations cannot be clearly detected within the confines of the canon [i.e., actual Scripture]" (Bruce Metzger and Michael Coogan, editors, 1993, "Trinity," p. 782).

Professor Charles Ryrie, in his respected work Basic Theology, writes: "Many doctrines are accepted by evangelicals as being clearly taught in the Scripture for which there are no proof texts. The doctrine of the Trinity furnishes the best example of this. It is fair to say that the Bible does not clearly teach the doctrine of the Trinity . . . In fact, there is not even one proof text, if by proof text we mean a verse or passage that 'clearly' states that there is one God who exists in three persons" (1999, p. 89).

Ryrie goes on to state: "The above illustrations prove the fallacy of concluding that if something is not proof texted in the Bible we cannot clearly teach the results . . . If that were so, I could never teach the doctrine of the Trinity" (p. 90).

Millard Erickson, research professor of theology at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, writes that the Trinity "is not clearly or explicitly taught anywhere in Scripture, yet it is widely regarded as a central doctrine, indispensable to the Christian faith. In this regard, it goes contrary to what is virtually an axiom of biblical doctrine, namely, that there is a direct correlation between the scriptural clarity of a doctrine and its cruciality to the faith and life of the church.

"In view of the difficulty of the subject and the great amount of effort expended to maintain this doctrine, we may well ask ourselves what might justify all this trouble" (God in Three Persons: A Contemporary Interpretation of the Trinity, 1995,p. 12).
Professor Erickson further states that the Trinity teaching "is not present in biblical thought, but arose when biblical thought was pressed into this foreign mold [of Greek concepts]. Thus, the doctrine of the Trinity goes beyond and even distorts what the Bible says about God" (p. 20).

Professor Erickson later points out: "It is claimed that the doctrine of the Trinity is a very important, crucial, and even basic doctrine. If that is indeed the case, should it not be somewhere more clearly, directly, and explicitly stated in the Bible? If this is the doctrine that especially constitutes Christianity's uniqueness . . . how can it be only implied in the biblical revelation? . . . For here is a seemingly crucial matter where the Scriptures do not speak loudly and clearly.

"Little direct response can be made to this charge. It is unlikely that any text of Scripture can be shown to teach the doctrine of the Trinity in a clear, direct, and unmistakable fashion" (pp. 108-109). Later in this booklet we will consider various scriptures often used to support the Trinity doctrine.

Shirley Guthrie, Jr., professor of theology at Columbia Theological Seminary, writes: "The Bible does not teach the doctrine of the Trinity. Neither the word 'trinity' itself nor such language as 'one-in-three,' 'three-in-one,' one 'essence' (or 'substance'), and three 'persons,' is biblical language. The language of the doctrine is the language of the ancient church taken from classical Greek philosophy" (Christian Doctrine, 1994, pp. 76-77)."

Quasar92

mpaper345 · Nov 19, 2016

I do not believe in a trinity,but only one God,who is a Holy Spirit.Father is a title for God,and the Son is the man Christ.

I believe God is an omnipresent Spirit,and is the same throughout His omnipresent Spirit,with no distinction of persons.

I believe that there is not 3 persons in one God,but the three ways God has a relationship with the saints,designated by titles.

Father-God's title for His parental role.

Son-God's visible relationship to the saints,which there is one throne in heaven,and one who sits on that throne,which is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.God working visibly among the saints.

Holy Spirit-God's invisible relationship to the saints.God working invisibly among the saints,which is why the Bible says the Spirit moved in creation,and Jesus was conceived of the Spirit,and the Spirit dwells in the saints.

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit if God,for God cannot be separated,which the Bible says that God is above all,and through all,and in you all.

They say there is 3 persons in one God,and then say God the Father,God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit,which then they are saying there is 3 Gods.

The Bible plainly states,but to us there is but one God,the Father,and in another place,One God,and Father of all,who is above all,and through all,and in you all.

The Bible only attributes the Father as God.

The Old Testament states that the Son shall be called the everlasting Father,for there is only one deity,the Father,and the Father said He would reveal a new name to the Jews,and speak to them,and Jesus told Phillip that if he seen Him,he has seen the Father,for the words He speaks are not of Himself,but the Father that dwells in Him,He does the works.

The Word of God is God manifest in the flesh,which that plan was already in the beginning,before God laid down the foundation of the world,and without that plan of God coming in the future in flesh,God would of not created anything He created.

Let us make man in our image.

God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future,it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,the prophets blood was already shed,and all the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Old Testament-Adam made in the image of God.
New Testament-Adam made in the image of Christ.
Image of God is the image of Christ.

God had the plan to come in the future in flesh,and created Adam in that image,an innocent nature in flesh.

So the let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus,and the let us make man in our image is God and the man Christ Jesus,who can be in the beginning,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future,it is the same as if the Son was already in the beginning.

Which the Bible says the Son was made of a woman,made under the law,and made according to the flesh,but can be considered in the beginning for it was a plan of God to happen in the future.

Baptize in the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,which those are not names,but titles.

Luke says baptize in Jesus' name,Peter said baptize in Jesus' name.

In the book of Acts,Jews,Samaritans,and Gentiles,all baptized in Jesus' name.

Everything we do in word or deed,in Jesus' name.

No other name whereby we are saved,but Jesus' name.

Jesus is the name that is above all names,not only in this world,but in the world to come.

Old Testament,Father said he would reveal a new name to the Jews,and speak to them.Jesus said I am come in My Father's name.

The Son inherited the name from the Father.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus at the right hand of God.

God's right hand symbolizes power,wisdom,and salvation.

One God,and one mediator between God and men,the man Christ Jesus.

The man Christ Jesus is our Savior,who is God manifest in the flesh,which God reconciled mankind to Himself in the person of Jesus Christ,God and man in harmony.

Jesus said all power is given unto Me in heaven and earth.

King David said,the LORD said unto my Lord,sit at My right hand until your enemies are conquered,for the Son must reign until all His enemies are conquered,the last one being death,and then the Son shall submit to the Father,that God may be all in all.

God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power,sitting at the right hand,until He delivers up the kingdom to the Father,and His enemies are conquered,then the Son shall submit to the Father,stop exercising the throne of power,not sitting at the right hand anymore,that God may be all in all.

There is only one throne in heaven,and one who sits on that throne.The only person we will see is Jesus,which if you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father,for Jesus is God's visible relationship to the saints,which the Bible says there is only one God,the Father,so the Father is not going to sit next to the Father,for we only need to see one visible manifestation of the Father.

The Bible says Jesus dwells in the light that no person can approach unto,and no person has seen Jesus,and no person will ever see Jesus,for He is the invisible God,that showed a visible manifestation of Himself.

Jesus was conceived of the Spirit,why does it not mention God the Son,and stated if you seen Him you seen the Father,and that He is the Spirit in the flesh among them,but not once ever stated He is God the Son.

There is only one God,who is a Holy Spirit.Father is a title for God,and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

With that viewpoint all scriptures make sense,and no contradictions.

Nobody is going to convince me there is a trinity,and everything can be explained that they present.

The Bible plainly states there is only one God,the Father,and the trinity has become so popular that people think it is the truth,but it is not.

God said thou shalt have no other gods beside me.

If they say that there is 3 persons in one God,then it would take all 3 persons to make one God,so you could not call them God individually,but then they say God the Father,God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit,saying there is 3 Gods,and violating the scriptures that state that there is one God,which the Bible says,thou believe there is one God,thou doest well,the devils also believe and tremble.

How can they go up against all that proof,but I say see what you get when you listen to other people,you do not honor Jesus for who He is,which God said I do not give My glory to another,and thou shalt have no other gods before Me,and there is only one God,the Father,and Jesus is the only ruler.

popeye · Nov 19, 2016

mpaper345 said:

I do not believe in a trinity,but only one God,who is a Holy Spirit.Father is a title for God,and the Son is the man Christ.

I believe God is an omnipresent Spirit,and is the same throughout His omnipresent Spirit,with no distinction of persons.

I believe that there is not 3 persons in one God,but the three ways God has a relationship with the saints,designated by titles.

Father-God's title for His parental role.

Son-God's visible relationship to the saints,which there is one throne in heaven,and one who sits on that throne,which is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.God working visibly among the saints.

Holy Spirit-God's invisible relationship to the saints.God working invisibly among the saints,which is why the Bible says the Spirit moved in creation,and Jesus was conceived of the Spirit,and the Spirit dwells in the saints.

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit if God,for God cannot be separated,which the Bible says that God is above all,and through all,and in you all.

They say there is 3 persons in one God,and then say God the Father,God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit,which then they are saying there is 3 Gods.

The Bible plainly states,but to us there is but one God,the Father,and in another place,One God,and Father of all,who is above all,and through all,and in you all.

The Bible only attributes the Father as God.

The Old Testament states that the Son shall be called the everlasting Father,for there is only one deity,the Father,and the Father said He would reveal a new name to the Jews,and speak to them,and Jesus told Phillip that if he seen Him,he has seen the Father,for the words He speaks are not of Himself,but the Father that dwells in Him,He does the works.

The Word of God is God manifest in the flesh,which that plan was already in the beginning,before God laid down the foundation of the world,and without that plan of God coming in the future in flesh,God would of not created anything He created.

Let us make man in our image.

God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future,it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,the prophets blood was already shed,and all the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Old Testament-Adam made in the image of God.
New Testament-Adam made in the image of Christ.
Image of God is the image of Christ.

God had the plan to come in the future in flesh,and created Adam in that image,an innocent nature in flesh.

So the let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus,and the let us make man in our image is God and the man Christ Jesus,who can be in the beginning,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future,it is the same as if the Son was already in the beginning.

Which the Bible says the Son was made of a woman,made under the law,and made according to the flesh,but can be considered in the beginning for it was a plan of God to happen in the future.

Baptize in the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,which those are not names,but titles.

Luke says baptize in Jesus' name,Peter said baptize in Jesus' name.

In the book of Acts,Jews,Samaritans,and Gentiles,all baptized in Jesus' name.

Everything we do in word or deed,in Jesus' name.

No other name whereby we are saved,but Jesus' name.

Jesus is the name that is above all names,not only in this world,but in the world to come.

Old Testament,Father said he would reveal a new name to the Jews,and speak to them.Jesus said I am come in My Father's name.

The Son inherited the name from the Father.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus at the right hand of God.

God's right hand symbolizes power,wisdom,and salvation.

One God,and one mediator between God and men,the man Christ Jesus.

The man Christ Jesus is our Savior,who is God manifest in the flesh,which God reconciled mankind to Himself in the person of Jesus Christ,God and man in harmony.

Jesus said all power is given unto Me in heaven and earth.

King David said,the LORD said unto my Lord,sit at My right hand until your enemies are conquered,for the Son must reign until all His enemies are conquered,the last one being death,and then the Son shall submit to the Father,that God may be all in all.

God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power,sitting at the right hand,until He delivers up the kingdom to the Father,and His enemies are conquered,then the Son shall submit to the Father,stop exercising the throne of power,not sitting at the right hand anymore,that God may be all in all.

There is only one throne in heaven,and one who sits on that throne.The only person we will see is Jesus,which if you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father,for Jesus is God's visible relationship to the saints,which the Bible says there is only one God,the Father,so the Father is not going to sit next to the Father,for we only need to see one visible manifestation of the Father.

The Bible says Jesus dwells in the light that no person can approach unto,and no person has seen Jesus,and no person will ever see Jesus,for He is the invisible God,that showed a visible manifestation of Himself.

Jesus was conceived of the Spirit,why does it not mention God the Son,and stated if you seen Him you seen the Father,and that He is the Spirit in the flesh among them,but not once ever stated He is God the Son.

There is only one God,who is a Holy Spirit.Father is a title for God,and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

With that viewpoint all scriptures make sense,and no contradictions.

Nobody is going to convince me there is a trinity,and everything can be explained that they present.

The Bible plainly states there is only one God,the Father,and the trinity has become so popular that people think it is the truth,but it is not.

God said thou shalt have no other gods beside me.

If they say that there is 3 persons in one God,then it would take all 3 persons to make one God,so you could not call them God individually,but then they say God the Father,God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit,saying there is 3 Gods,and violating the scriptures that state that there is one God,which the Bible says,thou believe there is one God,thou doest well,the devils also believe and tremble.

How can they go up against all that proof,but I say see what you get when you listen to other people,you do not honor Jesus for who He is,which God said I do not give My glory to another,and thou shalt have no other gods before Me,and there is only one God,the Father,and Jesus is the only ruler.

Absolute trash and lies from hell itself.

Both you and quasar are heretics big time.

Watchtower would approve of both of you.

Your agenda is to unsettle who Jesus is.

HE IS CREATOR.

ALL YOUR LIES AND TRASH DO NOT REVOKE JOHN 1.

popeye · Nov 19, 2016

Quasar92 said:

I have psted my personsl composition of the Scriptural Description of God several times already on this thread! Where have you been? It fully describes the difference between the teachings in the Bible that describe God and the doctrine of the Trinity, constructed by man! I was a Trinitarian for 45 years until I tired of being asked how to describe it, when neither the Bible, Jesus nor His disciples ever taught it. My studies and research bring you the following facts directly from God's Word!

The Scriptural description of God and how it differs from the doctrine of the Trinity: in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum

Quasar92

No,you pervert the word of God and who Jesus is.

You are a heretic big time.

I have reported you

popeye · Nov 19, 2016

mpaper345 said:

I do not believe in a trinity,but only one God,who is a Holy Spirit.Father is a title for God,and the Son is the man Christ.

I believe God is an omnipresent Spirit,and is the same throughout His omnipresent Spirit,with no distinction of persons.

I believe that there is not 3 persons in one God,but the three ways God has a relationship with the saints,designated by titles.

Father-God's title for His parental role.

Son-God's visible relationship to the saints,which there is one throne in heaven,and one who sits on that throne,which is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.God working visibly among the saints.

Holy Spirit-God's invisible relationship to the saints.God working invisibly among the saints,which is why the Bible says the Spirit moved in creation,and Jesus was conceived of the Spirit,and the Spirit dwells in the saints.

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit if God,for God cannot be separated,which the Bible says that God is above all,and through all,and in you all.

They say there is 3 persons in one God,and then say God the Father,God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit,which then they are saying there is 3 Gods.

The Bible plainly states,but to us there is but one God,the Father,and in another place,One God,and Father of all,who is above all,and through all,and in you all.

The Bible only attributes the Father as God.

The Old Testament states that the Son shall be called the everlasting Father,for there is only one deity,the Father,and the Father said He would reveal a new name to the Jews,and speak to them,and Jesus told Phillip that if he seen Him,he has seen the Father,for the words He speaks are not of Himself,but the Father that dwells in Him,He does the works.

The Word of God is God manifest in the flesh,which that plan was already in the beginning,before God laid down the foundation of the world,and without that plan of God coming in the future in flesh,God would of not created anything He created.

Let us make man in our image.

God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future,it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,the prophets blood was already shed,and all the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Old Testament-Adam made in the image of God.
New Testament-Adam made in the image of Christ.
Image of God is the image of Christ.

God had the plan to come in the future in flesh,and created Adam in that image,an innocent nature in flesh.

So the let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus,and the let us make man in our image is God and the man Christ Jesus,who can be in the beginning,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future,it is the same as if the Son was already in the beginning.

Which the Bible says the Son was made of a woman,made under the law,and made according to the flesh,but can be considered in the beginning for it was a plan of God to happen in the future.

Baptize in the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,which those are not names,but titles.

Luke says baptize in Jesus' name,Peter said baptize in Jesus' name.

In the book of Acts,Jews,Samaritans,and Gentiles,all baptized in Jesus' name.

Everything we do in word or deed,in Jesus' name.

No other name whereby we are saved,but Jesus' name.

Jesus is the name that is above all names,not only in this world,but in the world to come.

Old Testament,Father said he would reveal a new name to the Jews,and speak to them.Jesus said I am come in My Father's name.

The Son inherited the name from the Father.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus at the right hand of God.

God's right hand symbolizes power,wisdom,and salvation.

One God,and one mediator between God and men,the man Christ Jesus.

The man Christ Jesus is our Savior,who is God manifest in the flesh,which God reconciled mankind to Himself in the person of Jesus Christ,God and man in harmony.

Jesus said all power is given unto Me in heaven and earth.

King David said,the LORD said unto my Lord,sit at My right hand until your enemies are conquered,for the Son must reign until all His enemies are conquered,the last one being death,and then the Son shall submit to the Father,that God may be all in all.

God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power,sitting at the right hand,until He delivers up the kingdom to the Father,and His enemies are conquered,then the Son shall submit to the Father,stop exercising the throne of power,not sitting at the right hand anymore,that God may be all in all.

There is only one throne in heaven,and one who sits on that throne.The only person we will see is Jesus,which if you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father,for Jesus is God's visible relationship to the saints,which the Bible says there is only one God,the Father,so the Father is not going to sit next to the Father,for we only need to see one visible manifestation of the Father.

The Bible says Jesus dwells in the light that no person can approach unto,and no person has seen Jesus,and no person will ever see Jesus,for He is the invisible God,that showed a visible manifestation of Himself.

Jesus was conceived of the Spirit,why does it not mention God the Son,and stated if you seen Him you seen the Father,and that He is the Spirit in the flesh among them,but not once ever stated He is God the Son.

There is only one God,who is a Holy Spirit.Father is a title for God,and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

With that viewpoint all scriptures make sense,and no contradictions.

Nobody is going to convince me there is a trinity,and everything can be explained that they present.

The Bible plainly states there is only one God,the Father,and the trinity has become so popular that people think it is the truth,but it is not.

God said thou shalt have no other gods beside me.

If they say that there is 3 persons in one God,then it would take all 3 persons to make one God,so you could not call them God individually,but then they say God the Father,God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit,saying there is 3 Gods,and violating the scriptures that state that there is one God,which the Bible says,thou believe there is one God,thou doest well,the devils also believe and tremble.

How can they go up against all that proof,but I say see what you get when you listen to other people,you do not honor Jesus for who He is,which God said I do not give My glory to another,and thou shalt have no other gods before Me,and there is only one God,the Father,and Jesus is the only ruler.

This is last days deception.

You attack,directly,who Jesus is.

You are a cultist and a heretic.

jaybird88 · Nov 19, 2016

popeye said:

why you have to report the guy like a sore looser? he has scriptures for everything he has posted.

popeye · Nov 19, 2016

jaybird88 said:

Maybe you can spend about $5 on a copy of Foxes book of martyrs.

The martyrs died for what you flippantly dismiss.

It's called the essentials of the faith.

They would not recant.

Jesus deity was the issue.

Do some due diligence. You CAN NOT BE A CHRISTIAN while at the same time perverting who Jesus is.

popeye · Nov 19, 2016

Nobody understands the trinity.

I only need the basic facts,not some supernatural mental all encompassing understanding.

It is called FAITH. I BELIEVE IN IT. I PULL IT INTO MY MIND AND SPIRIT FROM HEAVEN,THE BIBLE.

QUASAR said he jettisoned any notion of it because he "got tired of not being able to explain it..."

That is the stuff every cult is made of.

That is almost word for word what Charles Russell testified.

The 70 plus disciples ran from Jesus over a similar crossroad and is why the 12 left him and traded his deity in when they burried him.

AGAIN,YOU CAN NOT BE A CHRISTIAN AND PERVERT WHO JESUS IS.

Anyone perverting it is a heretic.

jaybird88 · Nov 19, 2016

popeye said:

do you ever stop and think that many of those that died were murdered by the very people (rome) who put these doctrines into the faith? how many did Jesus and the 12 kill?

at one time a Christian was someone who followed Jesus, believed in what He taught. now its what the mainstream group tells you a Christian is and NOT where the Spirit leads you. that sounds like pharaseedic Judaism

valiant · Nov 19, 2016

Quasar92 said:

I have psted my personsl composition of the Scriptural Description of God several times already on this thread! Where have you been? It fully describes the difference between the teachings in the Bible that describe God and the doctrine of the Trinity, constructed by man! I was a Trinitarian for 45 years until I tired of being asked how to describe it, when neither the Bible, Jesus nor His disciples ever taught it. My studies and research bring you the following facts directly from God's Word!

The Scriptural description of God and how it differs from the doctrine of the Trinity: in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum

Quasar92

so I have to choose between you on the one hand and Paul, Peter, and billions of others on the other?. That's a toughie.,
LOL

Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

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