what has been fulfilled?
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According to Baram Blackett, Britain was first colonized by Syrian tribes, around 1700BC. Hence for instance the County of Surrey, which he says derives from Syria. Britain was for a long time also called Albion, from Laban. The Asyriacs were mentioned in all the old records, e.g. Doomsday Book.
Everyone seems to have a slant when it comes to the movement of the displaced Israelites, but there is lots of evidence for the Cimmerians/Gomerites coming to Britain. The Israelites were actually displaced in several shunts, and the idea that they all ended up in one place seems highly unlikely.
What is interesting is that the Welsh tribes kept meticulous heredity records which the Victorians meticulously destroyed....
Anyhow...its all just history, and nothing more. Btw, I think the Cimmerians and Parthians were involved in the establishment of Babylon
Everyone seems to have a slant when it comes to the movement of the displaced Israelites, but there is lots of evidence for the Cimmerians/Gomerites coming to Britain. The Israelites were actually displaced in several shunts, and the idea that they all ended up in one place seems highly unlikely.
What is interesting is that the Welsh tribes kept meticulous heredity records which the Victorians meticulously destroyed....
Anyhow...its all just history, and nothing more. Btw, I think the Cimmerians and Parthians were involved in the establishment of Babylon
Behold, he cometh with clouds;
and every eye shall see him
, and they also which pierced him:
and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
so when did all this happen below?and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Isaiah 24:23 (KJV)
Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts
shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.
Joel 3:15 (KJV)
The sun and the moon shall be darkened,
and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Mark 13:24 (KJV)
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light,
Joel 2:10 (KJV)
The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble:
the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
Isaiah 13:10 (KJV)
For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light:
the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Matthew 24:29 (KJV)
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
--
reading some of these replys on here reminds me of these verses
Matthew 13:11 (KJV)
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know
the mysteries ofthe kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Luke 8:10 (KJV)
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God:
but toothers in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
but toothers in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
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Isaiah 54 says:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]“Enlarge the place of your tent,
And let them stretch out the curtains of your dwellings;
Do not spare;
Lengthen your cords,
And strengthen your stakes.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For you shall expand to the right and to the left,
And your descendants will inherit the nations,
And make the desolate cities inhabited.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]“Enlarge the place of your tent,
And let them stretch out the curtains of your dwellings;
Do not spare;
Lengthen your cords,
And strengthen your stakes.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For you shall expand to the right and to the left,
And your descendants will inherit the nations,
And make the desolate cities inhabited.
I readily admit that my position has to allow for a literal Second Coming in the future.
my position also does not allow for gaps.
I believe there are clear passages which point to a literal Second Coming in the future, but many of the ones used by ppl, were already fulfilled....
for me, only be eliminating previously fulfilled passages can I discover what remains - and there are passages detailing what is NOT fulfilled (very few).
as for the sun and moon stuff: used often by God for day(s) of judgment - yet He did not bring about Judgment Day or resurrection and eternity...He sent men to do his bidding re-judgment.
that includes gentiles nations from OT; as well as Israel/Jerusalem in NT
examples:
Judgment on Babylon (at the hands of the Medes) - notice other familiar language:
Isaiah 13
Wail, for the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty! Therefore all hands will be feeble, and every human heart will melt, and they will be dismayed. Pangs and agony will seize them; they will be in anguish like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at one another; their faces will be aflame. See, the day of the LORD comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the earth a desolation, and to destroy its sinners from it.
For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not shed its light. I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity...Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place, at the wrath of the LORD of hosts in the day of his fierce angerJoel 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble. The sun, moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdrawal their shining.
it's just a fact that God uses this language over and over, and it doesn't mean the literal end of the whole world in these cases. we all have to decide for ourselves, wrestle with the texts and lightly hold our view at the time.
I don't reject dispensationalism because it sounds wrong (which it does); but BECAUSE I TURNED OVER EVERY ROCK IN IT (10 years of doing it, thoroughly) and found it to be unworkable and totally fabricated.
...
more - pointing to judgment of Jerusalem per Jesus' curse.
Amos 8:9
And it shall come to pass in that day saith the Lord God, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in a clear day
this language signifies (stars are for signs) judgment, and changes in rulership.
in every case it came to be (ex: the Medes displaced Babylon, Rome displaced Greece, etc, Rome torn apart and falling)
here's the famous stuff about Joseph and his family - they ruled over him, but that was going to change.
same language:
Genesis 37:5-11
And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it to his brethren: and they hated him yet the more. And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed: For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf. And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words. And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth? And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.
the end of the world didn't come with Joseph.
cont....
my position also does not allow for gaps.
I believe there are clear passages which point to a literal Second Coming in the future, but many of the ones used by ppl, were already fulfilled....
for me, only be eliminating previously fulfilled passages can I discover what remains - and there are passages detailing what is NOT fulfilled (very few).
as for the sun and moon stuff: used often by God for day(s) of judgment - yet He did not bring about Judgment Day or resurrection and eternity...He sent men to do his bidding re-judgment.
that includes gentiles nations from OT; as well as Israel/Jerusalem in NT
examples:
Judgment on Babylon (at the hands of the Medes) - notice other familiar language:
Isaiah 13
Wail, for the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty! Therefore all hands will be feeble, and every human heart will melt, and they will be dismayed. Pangs and agony will seize them; they will be in anguish like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at one another; their faces will be aflame. See, the day of the LORD comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the earth a desolation, and to destroy its sinners from it.
For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not shed its light. I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity...Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place, at the wrath of the LORD of hosts in the day of his fierce angerJoel 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble. The sun, moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdrawal their shining.
it's just a fact that God uses this language over and over, and it doesn't mean the literal end of the whole world in these cases. we all have to decide for ourselves, wrestle with the texts and lightly hold our view at the time.
I don't reject dispensationalism because it sounds wrong (which it does); but BECAUSE I TURNED OVER EVERY ROCK IN IT (10 years of doing it, thoroughly) and found it to be unworkable and totally fabricated.
...
more - pointing to judgment of Jerusalem per Jesus' curse.
Amos 8:9
And it shall come to pass in that day saith the Lord God, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in a clear day
this language signifies (stars are for signs) judgment, and changes in rulership.
in every case it came to be (ex: the Medes displaced Babylon, Rome displaced Greece, etc, Rome torn apart and falling)
here's the famous stuff about Joseph and his family - they ruled over him, but that was going to change.
same language:
Genesis 37:5-11
And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it to his brethren: and they hated him yet the more. And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed: For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf. And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words. And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth? And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.
the end of the world didn't come with Joseph.
cont....
more judgment on Israel (at the hand of the chaldeans), but not the end of the world yet:
Jeremiah 4:13-14, 23-30
O Jerusalem, That you may be saved...I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void; And to the heavens, and they had no light. I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro. I looked, and behold, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens had fled. I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness, And all its cities were pulled down Before the LORD, before His fierce anger. For thus says the LORD, The whole land shall be a desolation, Yet I will not execute a complete destruction. For this the earth shall mourn And the heavens above be dark, because I have spoken, I have purposed, And I will not change My mind, nor will I turn from it. At the sound of the horseman and bowman every city flees; They go into the thickets and climb among the rocks; Every city is forsaken, And no man dwells in them. And you, O desolate one, what will you do?
Jeremiah 4:13-14, 23-30
O Jerusalem, That you may be saved...I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void; And to the heavens, and they had no light. I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro. I looked, and behold, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens had fled. I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness, And all its cities were pulled down Before the LORD, before His fierce anger. For thus says the LORD, The whole land shall be a desolation, Yet I will not execute a complete destruction. For this the earth shall mourn And the heavens above be dark, because I have spoken, I have purposed, And I will not change My mind, nor will I turn from it. At the sound of the horseman and bowman every city flees; They go into the thickets and climb among the rocks; Every city is forsaken, And no man dwells in them. And you, O desolate one, what will you do?
even this view (of eschatology) is changing for me.
far far more emphasis on fulfilled passages and actually SEVENTY AD as the key.
I now believe that THAT is actually when the Law was fulfilled.
it has to be, since Jerusalem had to be judged by Mosaic Law.
and Jesus had to appear over Jerusalem with angels executing judgment.
wow....tingling amazement.
far far more emphasis on fulfilled passages and actually SEVENTY AD as the key.
I now believe that THAT is actually when the Law was fulfilled.
it has to be, since Jerusalem had to be judged by Mosaic Law.
and Jesus had to appear over Jerusalem with angels executing judgment.
wow....tingling amazement.
how wonderful.
now I have to start reading the NT all over again from the beginning.
if anyone has played TETRIS, that's what's happening in my head right now...haha...you have to try to make the pieces fit, and if you do, it goes up a notch.
YAY! how exciting
STILL - why hast thou been so silent, brother? where art thou?
now I have to start reading the NT all over again from the beginning.
if anyone has played TETRIS, that's what's happening in my head right now...haha...you have to try to make the pieces fit, and if you do, it goes up a notch.
YAY! how exciting
STILL - why hast thou been so silent, brother? where art thou?
okay. note to self. not so fast.
yes, judgment could be ongoing per every individual's death, and there could be a continuing stream of multitudes entering heaven and new Jerusalem, our inheritance.
BUT - does the bible say human life on earth goes on forever, with saved and lost designated heaven or hell at death?
what about the lake of fire and such. no, this earth comes to a fiery end - doesn't it?
hmmmm......somebody help
yes, judgment could be ongoing per every individual's death, and there could be a continuing stream of multitudes entering heaven and new Jerusalem, our inheritance.
BUT - does the bible say human life on earth goes on forever, with saved and lost designated heaven or hell at death?
what about the lake of fire and such. no, this earth comes to a fiery end - doesn't it?
hmmmm......somebody help