what has been fulfilled?

[Ahwatukee]

But in the middle of the week, Messiah was cut off at the Cross. So, only 69.5 weeks happened.

Greetings PW,

Your claim above is not what the scripture says. The Messiah was cutoff/crucified at the end of the 69 seven year periods, with the abomination being set up in the temple in the middle of the seven years. The scripture is clear that the Messiah is cutoff/crucified at the end of the 69 sevens with the last seven years to follow and which are still future.

From the time that Messiah was crucified, He began to build His church, putting a hold on Israel's last seven years to be fulfilled in the future. Once the church has been completed, then the Lord will appear and gather the dead and living believers, with that last seven years to follow. During this time God will fulfill the seventy seven year periods that were decreed upon Israel and will also pour out his wrath upon the rest of the inhabitants of the earth, with Christ returning to usher in the end of the age and establish His millennial kingdom.

That last seven years is yet to be fulfilled, but is coming quickly.

 

[Ahwatukee]

For instance, the list does not say anything about them needing to go through a Great Tribulation. This idea is a total man-made fabrication.

Scripture most certainly does state that Israel will go through the great tribulation:

"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

The above scripture is in reference to Israel and her temple. This can be deduced by the fact that the abomination being set up in the holy place with in the temple and the fact that they are told that, when they see the abomination sitting in the holy place, they are to flee from Jerusalem and Judea to the mountains. This is not referring to the church, but is directed at Israel, their temple and the setting up of the abomination in said temple. And if you will notice that in the last verse, this event is referred to as a time of "great tribulation."

I suppose that because of your stubbornness, that you will only understand that there is a gap in this prophecy of seventy 'sevens' with the last seven years being yet future, when you see the news of some political leader making a seven year contract with Israel which will result in them being able to build their long awaited temple. At least I hope that when that does happen you would admit that you were wrong.

 

[PlainWord]

Greetings PW,

Greetings Ahwatukee,

Your claim above is not what the scripture says. The Messiah was cutoff/crucified at the end of the 69 seven year period

“And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself...

Is week 69.5 after week 62? What is said before this?

“Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks.

69 (7+62) weeks until Messiah the Prince does what?

We know with absolute certainty that the below refers to Titus' troops. Titus wasn't with them yet so it is 100% accurate to say that it was the PEOPLE of the PRINCE who destroyed the sanctuary (temple) and the city and indeed they did. During the Roman-Jewish War which went from 67 to 73 AD, people fled. The seize of the temple mount lasted 5 agonizing months!!

And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

You see, in verse 26 Daniel is speaking of the Messiah being cut-off but not for Himself but rather for us. We then see a semi-colon because its a new, but related thought which is that the temple is going to be destroyed as a result of Messiah being cut-off. The destruction of the temple is not within the 70 weeks because it happens some 37 years later. But make no doubt about it, the temple was destroyed as punishment for killing their Messiah. You see, Christ became the chief cornerstone of the new spiritual temple and we all make up that new temple. The veil was ripped and then later the temple was destroyed. 618 years or so later, God allowed the Muslims to build the Dome of the Rock and gave them control over the temple mount so that the Jews could never again worship in the Temple and offer animal sacrifices. To allow that would be absurd since Christ became our sacrifice for all of us forever. So again, verse 26 goes together in that Daniel links the Cross to the temple destruction.

Then in verse 27 Daniel gives us more details about what Messiah actually accomplished during the first half of week 70, that being He confirmed a new covenant with His blood. In the middle of week 70, at week 69.5, He brought an end to sacrifice and offering by becoming both for us on the Cross. Then Daniel tells us because of the overspreading of abominations (multitudes of sins of the disbelieving Jews) he shall make their temple desolate, which He does some 37-40 years later. Daniel concludes by telling us their temple will remain desolate all the way until God's Wrath is poured out at the Second Coming upon the desolate. The desolate here are the Muslims who cause the Great Tribulation of Israel as we are told clearly in Isa 54 and Gal 4. The desolate now are the Children of the Bondwoman and her son (Ishmael).

I agree Daniel could have worded this a little better to avoid confusion but heck it was written 2,500 years ago so the manner of speaking wasn't the same back then.

.

 

[PlainWord]

Scripture most certainly does state that Israel will go through the great tribulation:

I agree scripture states this, Dan 9:27 however, does not state this. You have to combine Mat 24:15-21 with Dan 11:31.

"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Agreed.

The above scripture is in reference to Israel and her temple. This can be deduced by the fact that the abomination being set up in the holy place with in the temple and the fact that they are told that, when they see the abomination sitting in the holy place, they are to flee from Jerusalem and Judea to the mountains.

No sir!! Jesus never uses the word, "temple" in fact He goes out of His way, not to say "temple." Instead He tells us it's a holy place and invokes Daniel. Instead of turning to Dan 9:27 which DOES NOT contain the phrase "Abomination of Desolation" turn instead to Dan 11:31 which does.

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.

Here we see that it isn't the temple, but rather the fortress of the temple (sanctuary) that is defiled. The fortress is the wall. Today, the Western or Wailing Wall is the holy site where Jews go to pray and have been for centuries.

So what I say totally fits the world we see today. What you teach requires a 3rd man-made temple and resumption of animal sacrifices. Neither will happen and Dan 9:27 specifically tells us the temple will remain desolate even until the wrath of God is poured out.

I suppose that because of your stubbornness, that you will only understand that there is a gap in this prophecy of seventy 'sevens' with the last seven years being yet future, when you see the news of some political leader making a seven year contract with Israel which will result in them being able to build their long awaited temple. At least I hope that when that does happen you would admit that you were wrong.

If that happens, I will admit I was wrong. If you see the Wailing Wall defiled and prayers ceasing there, will you admit you were wrong?

 

[ZEEK]

Well you accept presumably that the third Empire is Greece?
And you accept it began with Alexander The Great?
So either you end the 70th week in the Greek Empire or the 4th Empire.

I don't know I am just trying to fathom your Ottoman stuff....(which is badly wrong tbh)

HUH? Where do I say that? Daniel's 70th week ended right after its 69th week, around AD 33. When Messiah the Prince appeared to John the Baptist, that started week 70. But in the middle of the week, Messiah was cut off at the Cross. So, only 69.5 weeks happened.

Remember what the purpose of those 70 weeks (490 years) were. Those weeks or years were determined for the Jewish people to accomplish the list of things found in Dan 9:24. They accomplished EVERYTHING on that list. There is no gap taught and nothing left on that list for them to do. For instance, the list does not say anything about them needing to go through a Great Tribulation. This idea is a total man-made fabrication.

 

[Ahwatukee]

No sir!! Jesus never uses the word, "temple" in fact He goes out of His way, not to say "temple." Instead He tells us it's a holy place and invokes Daniel. Instead of turning to Dan 9:27 which DOES NOT contain the phrase "Abomination of Desolation" turn instead to Dan 11:31 which does.

PW, Jesus doesn't have to use the word "temple" and that because by Him referring to the 'holy place' where the abomination is set up, He is referring to that room within the temple. The wailing wall has nothing to do with this prophecy whatsoever.

If that happens, I will admit I was wrong. If you see the Wailing Wall defiled and prayers ceasing there, will you admit you were wrong?

I would admit that I was wrong, but not because of prayers ceasing at the wailing wall, but because I would be here during the time of God's wrath. But according to scripture, I won't have to because I won't be here, as the church must be removed prior to these events.

The wailing wall is not the fortress mentioned. This is just a misapplication. And neither are sacrifices and offerings being performed at the wailing wall. Those will be animal sacrifices and will be performed within the temple just as the law given to Moses proclaims, which is what Israel will be following when they begin to sacrifice again.

 

[masmpg]

The reality of the threat to Jerusalem will soon be realized as time passes.

Russia, Syria, Iraq, etc, will all attack and support Iran's army.

Keep your eyes on Turkey. They are huge in the scheme of the "glorious land". Islam is very well settled in Israel, which is very obvious as we look at the dome of the rock. It will not take much to erase Israel from the "glorious land". After that the crusades will erase islam. This has already happened, and history does repeat itself.

 

[ZEEK]

Matthew 4:5 the devil took him to the holy city and placed him on the pinnacle of the temple

Matthew 24:15 “So when you see the desolating sacrilege standing in the holy place, as was spoken of by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),"

Jerusalem itself was the "Holy Place" being the Holy City. All Jesus meant was that when you saw the Roman armies enter Jerusalem, then it was time to scram

 

[masmpg]

HUH? Where do I say that? Daniel's 70th week ended right after its 69th week, around AD 33. When Messiah the Prince appeared to John the Baptist, that started week 70. But in the middle of the week, Messiah was cut off at the Cross. So, only 69.5 weeks happened.

Remember what the purpose of those 70 weeks (490 years) were. Those weeks or years were determined for the Jewish people to accomplish the list of things found in Dan 9:24. They accomplished EVERYTHING on that list. There is no gap taught and nothing left on that list for them to do. For instance, the list does not say anything about them needing to go through a Great Tribulation. This idea is a total man-made fabrication.

I like this. The 70th week did end at the stoning of stephen. The jews sealed their fate in that act.

 

[wanderer6059]

no they didn't. the US helped.
anyway....with superior arms and intelligence you can beat 5 inferior armies.
big deal.

Zone, there was little to no U.S. involvement. any and all was voluntary US citizens fighting. and the IDF was not superior, they were equal in armaments, out gunned by A LOT. so again i ask how do you think a country like Israel could take that land without the help of God. that is something to consider too, the war was one of a preemptive strike, the IDF was taking ground not defending it, a lot harder task.

Armies and weapons

Armies

The Israeli army had a total strength, including reservists, of 264,000, though this number could not be sustained, as the reservists were vital to civilian life.[SUP][45][/SUP]
Against Jordan's forces on the West Bank, Israel deployed about 40,000 troops and 200 tanks (eight brigades).[SUP][46][/SUP] Israeli Central Command forces consisted of five brigades. The first two were permanently stationed near Jerusalem and were called the Jerusalem Brigade and the mechanized Harel Brigade. Mordechai Gur's 55th Paratroopers Brigade was summoned from the Sinai front. The 10th Armored Brigade was stationed north of the West Bank. The Israeli Northern Command provided a division (three brigades) led by Major-General Elad Peled, which was stationed in the Jezreel Valley to the north of the West Bank.
On the eve of the war, Egypt massed approximately 100,000 of its 160,000 troops in the Sinai, including all of its seven divisions (four infantry, two armoured and one mechanized), four independent infantry brigades and four independent armoured brigades. No fewer than a third of them were veterans of Egypt's continuing intervention into the North Yemen Civil War and another third were reservists. These forces had 950 tanks, 1,100 APCs, and more than 1,000 artillery pieces.[SUP][47][/SUP]
Syria's army had a total strength of 75,000 and was deployed along the Syrian border.[SUP][48][/SUP]
The Jordanian Armed Forces included 11 brigades, totalling 55,000 troops[SUP][49][/SUP] and equipped with some 300 modern Western tanks, 250 of which were U.S. M48 Pattons. Nine brigades (45,000 troops, 270 tanks, 200 artillery pieces) were deployed in the West Bank, including the elite armoured 40th, and two in the Jordan Valley. They possessed sizable numbers of M113 APCs, a new battalion of mechanized infantry, and a paratrooper battalion trained in the new U.S.-built school. They also had 12 battalions of artillery and six batteries of 81 mm and 120 mm mortars.[SUP][50][/SUP] The Jordanian Army, then known as the Arab Legion, was a long-term-service, professional army, relatively well-equipped and well-trained. Furthermore, Israeli post-war briefings said that the Jordanian staff acted professionally as well, but was always left "half a step" behind by the Israeli moves. The small Royal Jordanian Air Force consisted of only 24 British-made Hawker Hunter fighters, six transports, and two helicopters. According to the Israelis, the Hawker Hunter was essentially on par with the French-built Dassault Mirage III – the IAF's best plane.[SUP][51][/SUP]
100 Iraqi tanks and an infantry division were readied near the Jordanian border. Two squadrons of fighter-aircraft, Hawker Hunters and MiG 21s, were rebased adjacent to the Jordanian border.[SUP][50][/SUP]
The Arab air forces were aided by volunteer pilots from the Pakistan Air Force acting in independent capacity, and by some aircraft from Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia to make up for the massive losses suffered on the first day of the war. PAF pilots shot down several Israeli planes.[SUP][3][/SUP]
Weapons

With the exception of Jordan, the Arabs relied principally on Soviet weaponry. Jordan's army was equipped with American weaponry, and its air force was composed of British aircraft.
Egypt had by far the largest and the most modern of all the Arab air forces, consisting of about 420 combat aircraft,[SUP][52][/SUP] all of them Soviet-built and with a heavy quota of top-of-the-line MiG-21s. Of particular concern to the Israelis were the 30 Tu-16 "Badger" medium bombers, capable of inflicting heavy damage on Israeli military and civilian centers.[SUP][53][/SUP]
Israeli weapons were mainly of Western origin. Its air force was composed principally of French aircraft, while its armoured units were mostly of British and American design and manufacture. Some infantry weapons, including the ubiquitous Uzi, were of Israeli origin.
[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
[TR]
[TH]Type[/TH]
[TH="align: center"]Arab armies[/TH]
[TH="width: 40%, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]IDF[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]AFVs[/TH]
[TD]Egypt, Syria and Iraq used T-34/85, T-54, T-55, PT-76, and SU-100/152 World War II-vintage self-propelled guns. Jordan used M-47, M-48, and M-48A1 Patton tanks. Panzer IV (used by Syria)[SUP][54][/SUP][SUP][55][/SUP][/TD]
[TD]M50 and M51 Shermans, M48A3 Patton, Centurion, AMX-13. The Centurion was upgraded with the British 105 mm L7 gun prior to the war. The Sherman also underwent extensive modifications including a larger 105 mm medium velocity, French gun, redesigned turret, wider tracks, more armour, and upgraded engine and suspension.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]APCs/IFVs[/TH]
[TD]BTR-40, BTR-152, BTR-50, BTR-60 APCs[/TD]
[TD]M2, / M3 Half-track, Panhard AML[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Artillery[/TH]
[TD]M1937 Howitzer, BM-21, D-30 (2A18) Howitzer, M1954 field gun, M-52 105 mm self-propelled howitzer (used by Jordan)[/TD]
[TD]M50 self-propelled howitzer and Makmat 160 mm self-propelled mortar, Obusier de 155 mm Modèle 50, AMX 105 mm Self-Propelled Howitzer[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Aircraft[/TH]
[TD]MiG-21, MiG-19, MiG-17, Su-7B, Tu-16, Il-28, Il-18, Il-14, An-12, Hawker Hunter used by Jordan and Iraq[/TD]
[TD]Dassault Mirage III, Dassault Super Mystère, Sud Aviation Vautour, Mystere IV, Dassault Ouragan, Fouga Magister trainer outfitted for attack missions, Nord 2501IS military cargo plane[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Helicopters[/TH]
[TD]Mi-6, Mi-4[/TD]
[TD]Super Frelon, Sikorsky S-58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]AAW[/TH]
[TD]SA-2 Guideline, ZSU-57-2 mobile anti-aircraft cannon[/TD]
[TD]MIM-23 Hawk, Bofors 40 mm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]Infantry weapons[/TH]
[TD]Port Said submachinegun, AK-47, RPK, RPD, DShK HMG, B-10 and B-11 recoilless rifles[/TD]
[TD]Uzi, FN FAL, FN MAG, AK-47, M2 Browning, Cobra, Nord SS.10, RL-83 Blindicide anti-tank infantry weapon, Jeep-mounted 106 mm recoilless rifle[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[abcdef]

Actually this is my view. I argue that Mat 24 is not fulfilled after verse 2. I argue all of it is future as the Abomination of Desolation was never set up at the Fortress of the Sanctuary (the Western Wall where Jews pray).

Try reading the combined version of the gospels.

--

The parallel passage of Lk 21:20-24, proves that these passages have been fulfilled.

When attacked this time, Israel in Jerusalem will not " fall by the edge of the sword" Lk21:24

Because now people use guns.
-
They will not be "carried away captive unto all nations",

Because the "already demonstrated" ruthlessness of Magog, (the Islamic nations that now surround Israel), will kill every Israelite, with zeal.
-
They will not "flee to the mountains" v 21,

Because they are surrounded on all sides.

Where will they flee to, that bombs and millions of enemies will not kill them?

I argue that everything foretold by Jesus is seen by the last generation.

Yes, the last generation at the time of the dest of Jerusalem.

The apostle John was present Mk 13:3, and saw all of these things fulfilled,

Except,

The restoration of Israel to Jerusalem, which ended when the "times of the Gentiles ended", and the events surrounding the restoration.

I argue that the GT of Israel starts when the A of D is set up

Yes, but it was 70 AD, and the trib lasted until 1967.

and lasts < 45 days as told in Dan 12:11.

Fulfilled, as all of the last vision of Dan. was by 70 AD (power scattered).

I argue that many Jews scatter one last time before the invasion begins

This time there will be no scattering,

Only murder.

then are gathered back by Christ when He returns after the GT of Israel.

1967 Israel returned, Jesus will be here soon.

I argue that the 2 witnesses are 1) Israel and 2) the Church.

The 2 witnesses are seen in Zech, before the Pentecost Kingdom.

Both stand before God as witnesses to Him. Both have power to convict the World that they are in sin and need to be saved. Both are hated by all nations.

Agree

Both are under attack by the spirits of Sodom and Egypt which will overcome them and defeat them.

They are killed through the action of the beast.

This is the "falling away" of 2 Thes 2.

Before 70 AD,

Then comes the end of Jerusalem,

The "Day of the Lord", against Jerusalem.

He returns and saves the remnant of Israel. There is always a remnant.

That is the bitterness of the scroll, Israel is destroyed.

He doesn't destroy the planet as in the earth is totally destroyed.

The fire from heaven, is the stone of Dan. 2, and the 7th vial. (7th trump earthquake/HAIL, 2 witnesses. earthquake)

It is a large (planet destroying) asteroid.

It will be a direct hit on Jerusalem (after the resurrection/rapture),

As far as I can tell, It may have led Abram to the promised land.

2000 yrs later it appeared as a "star" when Jesus was born, "His star."

(this baby is really big, it is not a comet with a tail, that might not have been described as a star.)

Now, another 2000 years (approx.) later,

It is coming around again.

It will strike the planet exactly 3 1/2 days after Jerusalem falls to Iran (the Kings of the East) and it's allies (Magog).

We have several passages which disprove that.

Psalm 78:69

And He built His sanctuary like the heights, Like the earth which He has established forever.

Psalm 104:5
You who laid the foundations of the earth, So that it should not be moved forever,

Ecclesiastes 1:4
One generation passes away, and another generation comes; But the earth abides forever.

I think when people read 2 Peter 3, and see this, that they wrongly apply it to the planet, rather than its people - the earth.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

The heavens pass away and the people and their works are burned up. You see there is no need for the heavenly lights, the sun and moon because God is light. There is no more day or night. Thus the heavens (stars) will be destroyed. They are no longer needed for signs either.

Genesis 1:14

Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;

You see, they won't be needed anymore.

1 Cor 4:18, ".....for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are temporal."

1 Jn 2:17, "and the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: ...."

R 20:11, " .... from whose face heaven and earth fled away;and there was found no place for them."

--

The new heavens and earth,

R 21:1, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; ...."

R 21:2, " ....new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, ...."

 

[zone]

WANDERER:

I'm actually off this thread due to the devolution away from WHAT HAS BEEN FULFILLED to what HAS NOT (RCC & Islam trash).

...

re: 1967

on June 8, 1967, 34 American servicemen were killed (see list with photos and bios) and 174 were wounded during an Israeli attack on the USS Liberty. According to former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas Moorer, “Those men were then betrayed and left to die by our own government.” The survivors are still awaiting justice.....

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ussliberty.html

....

The significance of the Six Day War as it relates to the USS Liberty is that the USS Liberty was bombed on the 4th day of the Six Day War that Israel had actually won during the first hour of the first day of the Six Day War when it wiped out the entire Egyptian Air Force.....

....Who was behind the Six Day War and why? It’s highly unlikely that Israel unilaterally initiated the Six Day War without specific instructions and support from the U.S. Some observers believe that the US and LBJ engineered the Six Day War as part of America’s Cold War strategy to humiliate the Soviet Union and and advance U.S. hegemony in the Middle East.

Furthermore, it’s ludicrous to accept that Israel accidentally bombed the USS Liberty and it’s clearly obvious that the official US/Israel version is so flimsy a cover-up that any citizen journalist using his Google fingers could credibly research enough facts to blow that lie to shreds.

However, the USS Liberty incident was far more sinister. Nasser, other Arab leaders and Arab journalists tended to believe that the U.S. and Britain were behind the Six Day War and actually participated. The consensus in the Arab world was that the entire Israeli Air Force wasn’t sufficient in numerical strength to accomplish the now infamous Israeli aerial armada that struck the Egyptian Air Force with such a devastating force that the entire Egyptian Air Force was demolished. Moreover, it appears that the Arab world was clueless about US plans to start a war with Egypt through its proxy Israel and/or that the nuclear bombing of Cairo was on the table.

Hounam writes:
Before Day Four of the war, Nasser had been accusing the US and Britain of directly assisting Israel. After the hot-line exchange about the Liberty, he was convinced of it. Of course, he was not aware that the ‘reconnaissance planes’ had in fact been on their way to bomb Cairo or…..that an atomic device could have been detonated.....

EconomicPolicyJournal.com: The USS Liberty, Israel & President Johnson’s Order to Destroy the USS Liberty

.....

 

[zone]

The 1967 Arab-Israeli War

Initially, the Johnson administration sought to convince Egyptian President Gamal Abdul Nasser and the Soviet leadership to work toward a regional arms control regime, but neither party proved receptive. Thus, in 1965, Johnson agreed to sell Israel M48A3 tanks, followed by A–4 Skyhawk aircraft in 1966. The rationale behind these sales, as National Security Council staffer Robert Komer put it, was that “Arab knowledge that they could not win an arms race against Israel should contribute long-term to the damping down of the Arab-Israeli dispute.”

- DOS Dept of Historian
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1961-1968/arab-israeli-war-1967

 

[masmpg]

WANDERER:

I'm actually off this thread due to the devolution away from WHAT HAS BEEN FULFILLED to what HAS NOT (RCC & Islam trash).

...

re: 1967

on June 8, 1967, 34 American servicemen were killed (see list with photos and bios) and 174 were wounded during an Israeli attack on the USS Liberty. According to former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas Moorer, “Those men were then betrayed and left to die by our own government.” The survivors are still awaiting justice.....

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ussliberty.html

....

I was wondering when this would come up. So much for Israel being an ally of USA! Why do we send billions to Israel every year? I agree with some protection but not monetary. They do not need our money.

 

[zone]

There were a number of factors that led to the stunning Israeli victory in June 1967. Years before the war broke out Wolfgang Lotz had penetrated the highest levels of the Egyptian military and political establishments to obtain vital information on Egypt's defense and contingency plans. Eli Cohen had done the same in Syria. There were many more like them, who remain unknown and anonymous.

In August 1966, too, the Iraqi Air Force pilot, Munir Redfa, flew his Soviet-made MiG-21 to Israel, a defection that benefited Israel greatly in terms of its Air Force's ability to train against an aerial adversary.

....

Israel's tremendous military success came not only as a result of the high level of training, expertise and courage of her pilots and soldiers, but also as a result of accurate intelligence. As Samuel Katz writes; "It is safe to assume that in no time in the history of modern warfare has a nation been equipped with such an intimate portrait of the enemy's disposition, deployment, abilities and inabilities as was the IDF…on the morning of June 5, 1967." King Hussein of Jordan later said; "'Their pilots knew exactly what to expect…their pilots had a complete catalogue of the most minute details of each of the thirty-two Arab air bases, what objectives to strike, where, when and how. We had nothing like that.'"

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/intel67.html

sounds like a whole lot of secret intelligence ops; and American made weaponry and cash; well....though Providential, there's no need to read anything miraculous into that war.
and the actual narratives do not prove God intervening on Israel's behalf - if you believe that is true, then you have God USING THE JEWS (who are not saved) to win a war.....then the warriors go to hell.

how does this work - please tell me.

 

[zone]

I was wondering when this would come up. So much for Israel being an ally of USA! Why do we send billions to Israel every year? I agree with some protection but not monetary. They do not need our money.

per a bible discussion - if the US had not and does not support Israel it would collapse.
is it God's will that americans (primarily Christians) prop up a state that only God Himself could support without the US?
I suppose the only way to know would be to stop the support, and that isn't going to happen.

The Greater Israel Project is what I keep watching go down....brick by brick. it's eerie

The Zionist Plan for the Middle East
Translated and edited by Israel Shahak

from Oded Yinon's
"A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties"
http://blog.lege.net/content/The_Zionist_Plan_for_the_Middle_East.pdf < CLICK HERE TO UNDERSTAND TODAY'S WARS.

 

[masmpg]

if you believe that is true, then you have God USING THE JEWS (who are not saved) to win a war.....then the warriors go to hell.

how does this work - please tell me.

I agree. Israel has always had the best intelligence because so many nations think that the have to support them because they have God on their side for some reason. When the jews told Pilate "His blood be on our hands, and on our children's" they sealed their fate. Then the stoning of Stephen was the end of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9. I am quite amazed at how the evangelical world believe that the jews are someone special.

 

[zone]

anyways...

back to our regularly scheduled programming:

[video=youtube;-b5aW08ivHU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU[/video]

 

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There were a number of factors that led to the stunning Israeli victory in June 1967. Years before the war broke out Wolfgang Lotz had penetrated the highest levels of the Egyptian military and political establishments to obtain vital information on Egypt's defense and contingency plans. Eli Cohen had done the same in Syria. There were many more like them, who remain unknown and anonymous.

In August 1966, too, the Iraqi Air Force pilot, Munir Redfa, flew his Soviet-made MiG-21 to Israel, a defection that benefited Israel greatly in terms of its Air Force's ability to train against an aerial adversary.

....

Israel's tremendous military success came not only as a result of the high level of training, expertise and courage of her pilots and soldiers, but also as a result of accurate intelligence. As Samuel Katz writes; "It is safe to assume that in no time in the history of modern warfare has a nation been equipped with such an intimate portrait of the enemy's disposition, deployment, abilities and inabilities as was the IDF…on the morning of June 5, 1967." King Hussein of Jordan later said; "'Their pilots knew exactly what to expect…their pilots had a complete catalogue of the most minute details of each of the thirty-two Arab air bases, what objectives to strike, where, when and how. We had nothing like that.'"

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/intel67.html

sounds like a whole lot of secret intelligence ops; and American made weaponry and cash; well....though Providential, there's no need to read anything miraculous into that war.
and the actual narratives do not prove God intervening on Israel's behalf - if you believe that is true, then you have God USING THE JEWS (who are not saved) to win a war.....then the warriors go to hell.

how does this work - please tell me.

Ro 11:28, "....they are beloved for the fathers' sakes."

Ro 11:12, "Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?"

Ro 11:11, "I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid:..."

Ro 11:29, "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."

Israel exists today because of the promises to the fathers,

Israel today is the receiving the promises by God's grace, not by their works.


Ro 9:15-16,

15, "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

16, "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

 

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anyways...

back to our regularly scheduled programming:

[video=youtube;-b5aW08ivHU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU[/video]

There are only 2 resurrections, 1 Cor 15:23-28.

The 2nd has not taken place yet.

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To understand the 2nd coming,

the places in the Bible where it is shown can be identified,

and the events that happen just before His coming.