Who said men do not have to obey it by guarding it closely?
No one is ignoring anything .The ones that are not cerimoinal in nature .
Adultery is not a cerimoinal law. The ceremonial meat requirements as shadows were also reformed at the time of reformation. The shadow became the substance.
Doubting Peter was shown three times.(three being the end of the matter) .
Do you doubt “What God hath cleansed”, that call not thou common?
And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.But the voice answered me again from heaven, “What God hath cleansed”, that call not thou common. And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven. Act 11:7
I think understanding of the difference between the things of men (shadows) as ceremonial laws like the Sabbaths, and the fulfillment of them (the things of God ) must be determined .
The reformation has come. What time period and manner of the government of God do you think it was restored to?
I offer the time of Judges when there was no outward representation to be used as a shadow and God by a work of his faith reigned from heaven as King of kings. This is when Israel had no king.
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until "the time of reformation." Heb 9:8
Hey Garee. Thanks for this chance to dispel a few more misconceptions.
I had said "To those who do not think we need to obey the Fathers Will as shown in His commands anymore I have a question...."
To which you said:
"Who said men do not have to obey it by guarding it closely?*"
Well certainly not me... But let me ask you what Guard means to you, and what verses you are referencing.
Our exchange continues with me saying:
"How do you decide which ones it is Okay to ignore or at least disobey, and which ones to keep?"
Your reply to this was:
"No one is ignoring anything .The ones that are not cerimoinal in nature ."
Please let me know where I can find the verses listing the ceremonial laws as opposed to the other laws still in effect.
I continue:
"Like the rule against adultery is still vailid but you can eat any meat you want or add pagan holidays into our faith while dropping the biblical."
Here you double down on this distinction with the reply:
"Adultery is not a cerimoinal law. The ceremonial meat requirements as shadows were also reformed at the time of reformation. The shadow became the substance."
One of the most fervent desires of the folks who live the Sin Doctrine is this meat issue. You Continue:
"Doubting Peter was shown three times.(three being the end of the matter) .
Do you doubt*“What God hath cleansed”, that call not thou common?
And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.But the voice answered me*again*from heaven,*“What God hath cleansed”, that call not thou common.*And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven. Act 11:7"
This is probably the most common verse chunk given by those who teach the Sin Doctrine as a proof text for eating unclean meats.
Before I continue let me ask you...isn't it true that whenever a dream or parable is given in scripture, the meaning is supplied? And wouldn't it be foolish if someone said we should ignore the meaning given in scripture and say the dream or parable means some sort of literal thing instead of what the bible says it means?
You would laugh at me if I tried to convince you that Joseph was wrong and Pharaohs dream really had nothing to do with famine, they were just supposed to feed the cows to each other. Or that the Parable of the Wise virgins is just instruction to the Messiahs future harem about hat he expects at the second coming. You would laugh right out loud.
Yet when it comes to Peter's vision... This us exactly what Sin Doctrine believers are taught and teach.
Even though by Peter and Paul's own testimony they never ate unclean. Lets continue a little further in Acts from where you conveniently left off before the visions meaning is given.
Acts 11:7*And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
*8**But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
*9**But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed,*that*call not thou common.
*10**And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.
*11**And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.
*12**And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
*13**And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
*14**Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
*15**And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
*16**Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said,*John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
*17**Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as*he did*unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
*18**When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Well there it is plain as day. This vision is about letting the Gentiles into the church. If you are a believer that is not of Hebrew bloodlines this is the vision Messiah sent to give you access to the Church! Not to BACON. How foolish.
As if the Messiah who could not have clarified or dismissed Leviticus 11 while he walked with them, he had to send a post transfiguration vision saying go ahead and eat some shrimp.
You would cast off most believers entry to the church for THAT?
Especially when dietary prohibitions are again talked about a few chapters later in Acts 15:20 where the ceasing of eating of blood was required of new believers before they could fellowship. Or was that kind of dietary law a moral law by your rules?
You continue:" I think understanding of the difference between the things of men (shadows) as ceremonial laws like the Sabbaths, and the fulfillment of them (the things of God ) must be determined .*"
I think first we must figure out where your getting this heresy from and correct it before you unintentionally stumble someone else. Or provide scripture to show me in error.
You continue:" The reformation has come. What time period and manner of the government of God do you think it was restored to?*
I offer the time of Judges when there was no outward representation to be used as a shadow and God by a work of his faith reigned from heaven as King of kings. This is when Israel had no king.."
I guess you haven't spent much time looking into this era as they believed YHWH was their king but wanted a human one like their neighbors. For instance:
And the Lord said unto Samuel, ‘Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto you: for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me,*that I should not reign over them.’”
•*1 Samuel 8:7*(cf. 1 Samuel 10:19)
The word “reign” here is the Hebrew malak which is the verb form of the Hebrew word for king,*melek. This is the other half of the Melchizedek. The King Part. *Israel was to be His particular “kingdom of priests” (Exodus 19:6) with YHWH as their King. More to the point, after Saul was anointed as the new human king and announced to Israel, Samuel specifically said that YHWH was their King in earlier times.
“And when you saw that Nahash the king of the children of Ammon came against you, you said unto me, ‘Nay; but a king shall reign over us’:*when the YHWH your Elohim was your king.’”
•*1 Samuel 12:12
When the people requested a king, Our Father told Samuel to tell the elders of Israel what to expect from a human king. When Samuel made the announcement to the people of Israel he said:
“And Samuel said to all the people, ‘See you him whom YHWH has chosen, that there is none like him among all the people?’ And all the people shouted, and said, ‘YHWH save the king.’”
•*1 Samuel 10:24
SO The first king of Israel was actually YHWH Himself, YHWH. King David certainly considered Him to be King over him, over Israel and over the whole earth:
“Hearken unto the voice of my cry,*my King, and my ELOHIM: for unto you will I pray.”
•*Psalm 5:2
“You are my King, O YHWH: command deliverances for Jacob.”
•*Psalm 44:4
“Sing praises to YHWH, sing praises: sing praises*unto our King, sing praises. For*YHWH is the King of all the earth: sing you praises with understanding. YHWH reigns over the heathen: YHWH sits upon the throne of his holiness.”
•*Psalm 47:6-8
“They have seen your goings, O YHWH; even the goings of*my ELOHIM, my King, in the sanctuary.”
•*Psalm 68:24
“For*YHWH is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth.”
•*Psalm 74:12
“Yea, the sparrow has found a house, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may lay her young, even your altars,*O YHWH of hosts, my King, and my ELOHIM.”
•*Psalm 84:3
“I will extol you,*my YHWH, O king; and I will bless thy name for ever and ever.”
•*Psalm 145:1
Jeremiah also considered YHWH to be King of earth.
“But YHWH is the true Elohim,*he is the living Elohim, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.”
•*Jeremiah 10:10
You conclude with:
"The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that*could not*make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood*only*in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and*carnalordinances, imposed on them*until*"the time of reformation." Heb 9:8"
Of course... The Master himself told us the same.
Matthew 5:17**Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
*18**For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
*19**Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach*them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
And when do heaven and earth pass away? No need to guess. It is at the Reformation. The schedule is given in Revelations 21:1**And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
The reformation is at the end of the millennium. Glorified bodies for all. The law no longer written on stones or books but in our hearts as it was in Eden. The adversary and his followers removed from us. New Jerusalem arrives.
Even the definition given in the concordance for the word reformation in Hebrews 9 makes this clear.
G1357
Original:*διόρθωσις
Transliteration:*diorthōsis
Phonetic:*dee-or'-tho-sis
Thayer Definition:
in a physical sense, a making straight, restoring to its natural and normal condition something which in some way protrudes or has got out of line, as broken or misshapen limbsof acts and institutions, reformation
Origin: from a compound of*G1223*and a derivative of*G3717, meaning to straighten thoroughly
TDNT entry: 12:30,7
Part(s) of speech: Noun Feminine
Strong's Definition: From a compound of*G1223*and a derivative of*G3717, meaning to*straighten thoroughly*;*rectification, that is, (specifically) the Messianic restoration: - reformation.
We are put back the way were intended to be. Perfect. praise YHWH. Praise Yahshua