What’s involved in doing God’s will unto salvation?

[Stephen63]

In response to the question posed in the title, the only action one may execute in order to do God's will is to make himself available..........He does the rest.

That's it! You just nailed it!

Now the question..... how many WILL if they believe it's not required? If I had been sold this doctrine early on & swallowed it all, no way would I ever force myself to do something I never had to do before. If I didn't believe in conviction & repentance, I'd never do it, for it's the Spirit's leading that prompts it.

Availability = willingness & that equals faithfulness & that equals serving the Lord as a servant.

Why do all that? That sounds hard..... like work. And it is.

If a person believes works of any kind with the Holy Spirit epowering the believer to do so isn't required, how CAN there be the fear of the Lord in them? In the beginning, maybe, but once they settle down & no fear of God in their eyes, if any coldness sets in, it's over.

There's no christian, especially myself, that hasn't dealt with spiritual coldness.

Good post, though.

 

[VCO]

It all sounds good until you realize you don't see "abiding in Christ" anywhere.

And no....."jus' believin' in Jesus" won't get you saved

Fruits are required in repentance..... & they NOT required to LIVE BY FAITH?

Dear readers, don't lay down your crown that was freely given to you by your Father at the feet of a thief. The just shall LIVE BY FAITH.

I disagree with that second line that I change to red type.

The reason I disagree, is we Christians should understand and be using the Jewish DEFINITION of the word Believe, instead of the typical English Definition. The Jews do not use that word to only mean to be intellectually agreeing that something is factual, while unfortunately many Christians do. To the Jews, Believing absolutely requires a willing action to demonstrate your genuine TOTAL Trust in that Belief you claim. Zola Levitt in one of his programs several years ago, gave a wonderful example of how differently the Jews use the Word Believe, than many English Speaking people do:

If two Jews walked up to a frozen over lake in early winter,

And Jew #1 asked Jew #2, "Do you BELIEVE, the ice is thick enough to walk on yet?"

And Jew #2 responded, "Yes, I do BELIEVE it is thick enough to walk on."

And then Jew #2 put one foot out and gently started pressing down on the ice, to test it.

Jew #1 would scream, "LIAR! If you really BELIEVED it was thick enough to walk on, you would

have boldly walked out there with both feet, to put your whole weight on what you claimed to BELIEVE."

Therefore, a Messianic Jew of today certainly understands that the statement "I BELIEVE IN JESUS",

involves a willingness to boldly walk in obedience, putting your whole TRUST in Jesus Christ.

Anything less than that is NOT BELIEVING in JESUS CHRIST.

 

[ZacharyB]

In response to the question posed in the title, the only action one may execute in order to do God's will is to make himself available..........He does the rest.

Great, I guess you don't care for the several instructions given in the NT about how to do God's will.
Unbelievable.

Make yourself available, and since you're a robot, God'll do it all.
Many and lol

 

[ZacharyB]

... the statement "I BELIEVE IN JESUS",
involves a willingness to boldly walk in obedience, putting your whole TRUST in Jesus Christ.
Anything less than that is NOT BELIEVING in JESUS CHRIST.

Hardly anyone here believes it's necessary to walk in obedience (especially Grace777).

 

[Grace777x70]

Hardly anyone here believes in walking in obedience (especially Grace777).

That is entirely false and bearing false witness in your religion will get you a one way ticket to hell. Thank God for His grace and mercy that is in the gospel of Christ our Lord.

I have written this about 20x times now but I will say it once again.

Legalism - in the biblical sense of the word - is any attitude or belief that human merit can produce, prove, or preserve for one-self an acceptable standing before God.

Whenever our assurance of salvation rests upon our "performance" rather then upon the "promises" of God that are Yes and Amen in Christ - we are in big trouble - we have fallen from grace to rely on our own self-effort so grace does not flow to us.

Obedience in the New Covenant:

In loving God and others as Jesus says is the greatest commandment in the law in relation to obedience.

Obedience to me is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man. It is not the root. It's the love of God and the life of Christ manifesting Himself in and through us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren.

It is not necessarily something "we do to be" but stems from something we "already are now" in Him and so we "do love" as we grow in our awareness of His love for us.

We obey our Lord and Father because we know Him and trust in His character and obedience is not a set of rules that we follow, but a natural flow of the life of God in us built on a love-trust relationship. When you know the love of God for us we will obey Him naturally and effortlessly.

When our minds are renewed to the truth that is in Christ - we obey from our hearts effortlessly. It's a fruit of being in Christ.

I maintain that obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man that is created in Christ. When we teach the grace of God this enables us to bear His fruit in and through us to reflect the true kingdom of the love and grace of God to a hurt and dying world.

Teach and preach who believers are in Christ because we are in union in one spirit with the Lord Jesus and they will "awake to righteousness" that is in them because they are a new creation in Him and sin not and walk in the good works that God has prepared for them.

 

[PeterJens]

When our minds are renewed to the truth that is in Christ - we obey from our hearts effortlessly. It's a fruit of being in Christ.

Jesus must be talking about something different to what is being said above.
Learn from me, follow, carry your cross, deny yourself, give yourself for
others.

A yoke involves work, so this is certainly not effortless.

So whatever G7 is talking about it is not what Jesus, Paul etc are talking
about.

It is why you find in his language comes condemnation of others, accusations
of hatred etc. the idea that evil is being spread and he represents the answer.

For me it is like having all the words then removing the biggest issue, the
fight between our emotions and our goals. If everything was effortless we
would already be perfect, and Jesus would have no problem going to the cross,
it would have been a walk in the park, a piece of cake, except it was not.

So something is very wrong with this picture.

 

[Grace777x70]

In order to keep the malice and slander down to a minimum as usual I will have to clarify some things again...and probably again and again - but hopefully this will help others that read this.

There is a fight of faith. Faith in what Christ has done for us on the cross and in His resurrection - that we are sons of God and joint heirs with the Lord Jesus Christ. We have died with Christ on the cross and that is our cross too. Our real life is hidden with Christ in God. Col.3:3

We cease from our own works so that we can rest in what Christ has done.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action.

Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

There is a vast difference between "us" doing things and the Lord doing things through and in us.

We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

 

[gb9]

Jesus must be talking about something different to what is being said above.
Learn from me, follow, carry your cross, deny yourself, give yourself for
others.

A yoke involves work, so this is certainly not effortless.

So whatever G7 is talking about it is not what Jesus, Paul etc are talking
about.

It is why you find in his language comes condemnation of others, accusations
of hatred etc. the idea that evil is being spread and he represents the answer.

For me it is like having all the words then removing the biggest issue, the
fight between our emotions and our goals. If everything was effortless we
would already be perfect, and Jesus would have no problem going to the cross,
it would have been a walk in the park, a piece of cake, except it was not.

So something is very wrong with this picture.

see, this is isolating one thing that someone says and attacking it, no context. but, then this is how folks like you read the Bible, just isolating verses, tossing out context.

 

[PeterJens]

Who is mentioning anything about malice and slander, it is only G7.

You will notice G7 failed to answer a simple point.
Counting the cost. Walking to your death is not effortless.
The calling of the churches in revelation

Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.
Rev 2:4-5

You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.
Rev 2:3

Enduring hardships is not easy, and putting in effort often leads to weariness, but not these
believers.

They triumphed over him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
Rev 12:11

Following Christ can mean the ultimate sacrifice.

But this is effortless in G7's version.

Now this is not my impression. Cowards are called cowards because the
fold when asked to stand up for what they hold to. So bad is this compromise
it is listed in the reason to be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

Stand firm, and you will win life.
Luke 21:19

Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
1 Cor 15:58

Now all of the above is simple, obvious.
Now when christians were thrown to the lions, they found this very hard.
When people torture you, kill you if you do not recant your faith, that is hard.

So again I say, this is a different view of faith, in safe middle class america,
where some nutcase is saying change your position or die.

Or if you go our and witness you could be stoned. This makes you think twice
about witnessing. It takes real effort, and sacrifice.

Take Paul going to Jerusalem when God told him he would be taken and in the
end never return. He still went, though his brothers tried to stop him.

 

[PeterJens]

see, this is isolating one thing that someone says and attacking it, no context. but, then this is how folks like you read the Bible, just isolating verses, tossing out context.

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
Matt 11:28-30

Take my yoke
Learn from me
You will find rest

This does not mean effortless.

 

[Grace777x70]

As Jesus relied totally on the Father for all things so do we rely on Christ and what He has already done for us in all things. We have died with Christ on the cross. That is the gospel message.

Get this right and the rest will fall into place - if not then we are left with a humanistic D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness religion that nullifies the grace of Christ from operating in our lives like it should.

This is the reason why the martyrs were joyful to go to the lions in the Roman Games. In Foxe's Book of Martyr's it talks about them wanting to go first to be killed so that they could be with the Lord Jesus.

It's in knowing that we are dead now ( our old man in Adam is dead and we are alive to God now in the new creation in Christ ) and that our real life is hidden with Christ in God that brings about the true life of Christ in this world.

We overcome by the blood of the Lamb and loved not their lives even under death.

I don't chafe at the term "our doing". We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.

What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.

Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.

Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.

I won't speak for the others but as far as works go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works" of a believer.

Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.

Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15

The life of the Vine supplies the "sap" needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.

 

[gb9]

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
Matt 11:28-30

Take my yoke
Learn from me
You will find rest

This does not mean effortless.

that was also not all that was said in that post. context. try it sometime.

 

[Grace777x70]

that was also not all that was said in that post. context. try it sometime.

Sometimes it is best to employ Romans 16:17 in these types of situations until there is a change - other than that - it is just a waste of time and causes strife and division. Just ignore the nonsense and preach the gospel of the grace of God and we can all grow in Christ together...All is well...

 

[PeterJens]

Obedience - is following Jesus, doing what he commanded.

And we abide in Christ, in God.

What I do not understand, how you want to create a barrier with nothing.
There must be something here, but it certainly is not in scripture the way you
want it to be.

 

[PeterJens]

that was also not all that was said in that post. context. try it sometime.

For me the point is what Jesus is saying and that is all.

We are called to follow Jesus, to obey, to do what we are commanded.
Those are the words.

Now if people cannot face these words, then there is nothing more to say.
I just praise the Lord. Love in Christ is our life, the blood that flows through
our veins.

 

[gb9]

For me the point is what Jesus is saying and that is all.

We are called to follow Jesus, to obey, to do what we are commanded.
Those are the words.

Now if people cannot face these words, then there is nothing more to say.
I just praise the Lord. Love in Christ is our life, the blood that flows through
our veins.

correct. we do this because we are saved, not to get or maintain salvation. we all believe in obedience , we just have different views of it's role in our relationship with God through Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

We overcome by the blood of the Lamb and loved not their lives even under death.

I don't chafe at the term "our doing". We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.

Let me make a little connection.
The believer does what God is asking the believer to do, but it is God doing it,
given some emotional feelings, or the right words being said, and it is the believer
doing it with a different set of words being said and emotional feelings.

You might know the connection between the two scenarios is the believer.
Now last I looked all of us have free will and we choose all that we do.

We are Christs people, we obey and the Lord brings the growth and change.

I wonder why there is a desire to generate a difference.
All the language is not anything I deny or disagree with. God changes us, I
do not know how, but it is because we follow, we listen, we learn.
This is what Jesus tells us to do, and so if you are not doing it, your are
not following Christ.

 

[PinkDiamond]

I do agree with Grace 777x70 that obedience from the heart is easy for the truly converted. I think of the verse in Matthew 11:30, " for my yoke is easy and my burden is light." The thing that separates real Christianity from all other religions is that we have a dramatic transformation of our mind, soul, and spirit upon conversion. If we have to strive to fulfill the requirements of the moral law of God, then we haven't experienced his life transforming grace. Our appetites and desires change when we have Christ abiding in us. Of course, we will still face affliction from the devil and temptation in this life. The Christian faith is a war and daily struggle against the temptation of the devil and persecution from others. In that sense it is difficult.

I agree with Peter Jens also that we need to pick up our cross and that is not an easy thing to do. But, I'd contend that even in suffering and persecution we have his grace to sustain us and the task is not grievous.

 

[PeterJens]

I do agree with Grace 777x70 that obedience from the heart is easy for the truly converted. I think of the verse in Matthew 11:30, " for my yoke is easy and my burden is light." The thing that separates real Christianity from all other religions is that we have a dramatic transformation of our mind, soul, and spirit upon conversion. If we have to strive to fulfill the requirements of the moral law of God, then we haven't experienced his life transforming grace. Our appetites and desires change when we have Christ abiding in us. Of course, we will still face affliction from the devil and temptation in this life. The Christian faith is a war and daily struggle against the temptation of the devil and persecution from others. In that sense it is difficult.

I agree with Peter Jens also that we need to pick up our cross and that is not an easy thing to do. But, I'd contend that even in suffering and persecution we have his grace to sustain us and the task is not grievous.

The problem I have with G7 position, is he will also say he continues in sin
constantly, and regards loving God with all your heart strength and might impossible.

So you cannot with one argument say obeying God is without effort and then say you
fail to obey and are in sin constantly.

This is why I call this being double minded. It makes it hard to take anything being
said seriously other than to appear innocent, and spiritual, while in the next moment
contradicting the same position.

So I wonder what reality is todays reality, because I am sure tomorrow a different
one will emerge.

And obedience in churches where people have learnt to love each other is rare,
there is progress, but the whole reason for opposition to me about sharing about
love is because it is so denied, I was ridiculed for even raising the issue.

So I find this all ironic, but at least there is progress, my we walk with open hearts
in love and forgiveness empowered by the cross of Christ, Amen.

 

[Grace777x70]

The reality is if I say:

" what a beautiful blue sky the Lord gave us."

Some people will say back in response:

"What?..the sky is not green - everyone knows that the sky is blue."

This kind of a mindset that says the opposite of what is really being said is just a total waste of time to deal with and until there is proper recognition of what is really being said - it's best to just ignore this behavior until it stops.

As far as how we are "changed" I say this.

We are transformed by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory of the Lord as in a mirror - 2 Cor. 3:17-18. This transformation is a passive occurrence ( as the Greek shows the word for "transformed" is in the passive voice - which means that something is being done to the person - not the person themselves doing it ).

This is similar to what happened to Moses when he was beholding God on the mountain - his face shined with the glory of the Lord and it transformed his face and the Israelites could see it ( Altho Moses' was fading - ours in Christ gets brighter - from glory to glory )

Also the same Greek word is used when Jesus was "transfigured" on the mountain and the glory of Him shone out for the disciples to see. This too was passive - which means that Jesus did not do it Himself - it was done to Him.

Jesus was manifesting outwardly what He already really was inside of Him - in His spirit where the Holy Spirit and the Father are too as One with Him.

Lastly the same Greek word was used in Romans 12:2 - be transformed by the renewing of our mind. This too is "passive".

This renewing of our mind involves the realities of Christ in us and all that He has done on the cross and resurrection - and the fact that we too died with Him on the cross and rose with Him to newness of life in the Spirit. - in our inner man in Christ - the new creation.

I maintain that the teaching about Christ brings about the grace and faith necessary to live the true Christian life and it all comes from being a manifestation of what already is in us because of our union with Christ as one spirit in the inner man in Christ.

I believe Peter walking on the water is a mini-version of what the true Christian life looks like - keeping our eyes on Jesus only and in obedience to Jesus' word "Come" - Peter was able to walk on water and he himself was able to do things that normally couldn't be done in the natural.

We do participate in what the Lord is doing in and through us. For it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Phil.2:13 He gives us both the desire and the capability to manifest His life in and through us.

One last thing was when I looked at how Jesus responded to others - He was moved with compassion - this was a passive occurrence too that was manifesting the life that was in Him to help others.

It was not a conscious decision to say only with His mind " Ok, now I will heal someone".....it was a passive response from the life of love that was in Him. He was moved with compassion in His spirit.

This is what I call "effortless" living from the spirit - from His heart where the Holy Spirit and the Father are joined as one with Him while He was on this earth. We operate the same way - complete dependence on the life of Christ manifesting outwardly to others.

I hope I was able to articulate what I am seeing.....