Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!

Cee · Dec 4, 2016

This idea is completely against Scripture.

Pharisees wanted signs and wonders AFTER denying the ones He performed in front of them.
If you think Jesus only healed because He was "confirming" His message, this goes against a lot of Scriptures.

1. Jesus performed a miracle for Mary "before His time".
2. James said "Is any sick?" Get healing, nothing to do with confirming a message.
3. The OT contained healing in it, because it's God's nature, and we are in a better one.
4. Jesus said those who believe in Him would do the works He did.
5. Jesus healed Gentiles when He was sent to the Jews.

Many would rather attribute healing to the enemy out of fear of being mislead than give God the glory.

But God didn't give us a spirit of fear.

garee said:

trofimus · Dec 4, 2016

Depleted said:

I am not believer in Hinn, Hagin etc. So if somebody says they have the power to make miracles, just show it, without claims and megashows.

I believe God can and does miracles today. But we are in the WoF thread. Thats the topic.

Cee · Dec 4, 2016

Scripture is so crystal clear that faith receives from God. BUT - Because not everyone gets healed, people say that faith is scam. It's the most ridiculous thing ever. It's unbelief through and through. Looking at the world to define God is the definition of UNBELIEF.

Peter looked at the WAVES of the SEA. And doubted the word of God. And he SANK. Even though Christ told Peter to walk on water, Peter doubted mid-way and STILL sank! If you think our response doesn't matter, I honestly don't know what Scriptures you're reading.

BECAUSE:

1. God wanted him to walk on water.
2. Peter doubted and couldn't. Even though God wanted it for him.
3. Jesus told him why he couldn't when He said, "you of little faith"... Why did you doubt?
4. Peter believed it was possible because he SAW Christ do it.
5. Jesus' example is OUR example. God is with us!
6. Jesus commissioned us to do His works!
7. We are called to be disciples! That means we learn and grow BEYOND our own personal experiences!
8. Skepticism isn't discernment. Bereans were more noble because of their eagerness not their skepticism.

C.

LaurenTM · Dec 4, 2016

Cee said:

read slowly

no one is saying faith is a scam

that is something that you personally have to have NO faith in other Christians to believe

what we actually ARE saying, is that WOF is a scam

I already said to you in another post (at least I think it was you) that if we have no faith, then we are not saved because the Bible says we must have faith to be saved

you present opinions as Biblical fact, based on your emotions and honestly? very typical WOF rhetoric

if I may be blunt, where do you get off saying this:

Because not everyone gets healed, people say that faith is scam.

just please post the number of the response wherein someone said faith is a scam...WOF? well I'll say it myself...it's a shameful scam

real discernment will reject any notion that we create our own reality...not withstanding the promises in scripture and keeping faith with the word of God and believing what HE says...not what WOF twists verses to say

you should be more careful in what you say

to the best of my knowledge, every respondent in this thread has stated they believe that God DOES heal...just not on demand and not every person

you should acknowledge that, instead of trying to prove we said something we did not say

then, state your objections if you have them

stonesoffire · Dec 4, 2016

Post # 713 is a youtube video of a baby that was shaken by a babysitter and in a coma. Her mother got permission to take the child out for this church service to be prayed over.

This is the word of faith in action. And it took time...possibly 45 minutes total but she woke up.

A miracle caught on video.

stonesoffire · Dec 4, 2016

I posted this in response to one who asked for proof.

Cee · Dec 4, 2016

Your words are basically: "Word of Faith" is a scam.
What this means from the continual arguments in this thread: The idea that you can agree with what God says to receive what He promises = scam.
That's what is being presented over and over.
And the basis for this statement? If God wanted me healed, I'd be healed, so obviously He must not want me healed.
This has been stated over and over in multiple ways.

BUT - The idea that you need faith to receive is repeated OVER and OVER in Scripture.
WoF is the study of what it looks like to have the "faith to receive".
It's not perfect, but the doctrine is based around the idea that Scripture teaches we need faith to receive God's promises.

Faith is not just for SALVATION.
Jesus says, over and over again, your faith has made you well. Not your faith has saved your soul. People teach that, but Scripture doesn't.

And to be perfectly blunt with you, when people say they believe in healing, but then continually look for reasons to disprove it, do they actually believe in healing? Or do they only believe in healing on "their terms"? I believe the latter. And as I addressed in my last post that's what Jesus would call unbelief. Looking at "personal experiences" to redefine God's promises.

And to say that God doesn't want people well, you'd have to completely throw out Scriptures like:
1. Jesus saying you will do the works I do.
2. James saying to get prayer of faith and you'll be made well.
3. John desiring people would be in good health even as their soul prospers. When someone says that today many call them a heretic.

Just to name a few off the top of my head.

You say: I base my arguments like Biblical fact. And you don't? If I didn't believe they were true I wouldn't share them now would I. And I have no problem discussing any and every point I make in my posts with Scripture. So, instead of making a "sweeping generalization" about me, feel free to address a point I made that you think is not Scriptural.

I've always been open to correction because I am a disciple. I am a learner. I seek to grow. Not to simply prove myself right. Can you say the same? If so, let's have a discussion, I'm fine with it.

C.

LaurenTM said:

Angela53510 · Dec 4, 2016

Cee, do you ever read the other posts through? Because it sure doesn't look that way.

The topic:

Word of Faith.

NOT healing! Everyone in this thread acknowledges healing. I even testified to an unsaved Hindu couple having their young child healed. So, they had NO faith. But God, in his mercy healed the child, and then, they were saved. Because God can do anything that is according to his will. And it was his will this child be healed, and the parents and extended family be saved.

The gift of faith is about salvation. Healing, although it happens, no one is disputing it, is NOT in the atonement. I've posted over and over Bible verses after Bible verse you come off saying its my "opinion."

When you want to refute what I said about Isa. 53 not including healing in the atonement, NOT with your opinions, but with Scripure, then we can have a real discussion about the Bible.

So read this:

NO ONE SAYS THAT GOD CAN'T HEAL!!

What we are all saying is that WoF is a scam. So instead of these long drawn out opinion posts, where you show your faith, not in God, but in a heresy, why don't we discuss the Bible?

HisHolly · Dec 4, 2016

I didn't want to post again but folks are adamant about teachings they read as being God himself instead of being thorough for themselves.....SO. if being healed from sin is in the atonement then so is healing from bad health.. sin brings Ill health read Psalm 38:3 and John 9:1..

Angela53510 said:

Cee, do you ever read the other posts through? Because it sure doesn't look that way.

The topic:

Word of Faith.

NOT healing! Everyone in this thread acknowledges healing. I even testified to an unsaved Hindu couple having their young child healed. So, they had NO faith. But God, in his mercy healed the child, and then, they were saved. Because God can do anything that is according to his will. And it was his will this child be healed, and the parents and extended family be saved.

The gift of faith is about salvation. Healing, although it happens, no one is disputing it, is NOT in the atonement. I've posted over and over Bible verses after Bible verse you come off saying its my "opinion."

When you want to refute what I said about Isa. 53 not including healing in the atonement, NOT with your opinions, but with Scripure, then we can have a real discussion about the Bible.

So read this:

NO ONE SAYS THAT GOD CAN'T HEAL!!

What we are all saying is that WoF is a scam. So instead of these long drawn out opinion posts, where you show your faith, not in God, but in a heresy, why don't we discuss the Bible?

Cee · Dec 4, 2016

It is an opinion! I posted in detail showing where you posted opinions without backing up your claims. Simply making a statement like "healing is not in the atonement" doesn't make it true. You have to prove that claim. And in my opinion you didn't. Not by a long shot. Maybe you think you did, but when you say the blanket sweeping statements like I pointed out that might be good persuasion, but it's not backing up your claims with Scripture.

Further, you disregarded Scriptures that proved your opinion wrong. You went in to some "context" arguments that were all your opinion. And then you completely ignored what Jesus said in regards to healing and the promise He gave us, that WE would do His works.

You also didn't address the crystal clear statement of James that says the prayer of faith WILL save the sick. Notice James doesn't simply say "prayer" he says the "prayer of faith". And he didn't say if God wills it. He said WILL save the sick.

And YOU say God doesn't require faith, when JESUS clearly says peoples' faith made them well? Do I really need to post the Scriptures to show you that?

As for your Scripture request:

1 Peter 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

He bore our sins in His body. And the result? Our bodies are healed. This is NOT talking about salvation. Why? Because we are not healed to be saved. We die to be saved.

Romans 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

Romans 7:6 But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the Law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

So then what does it mean when it says by His stripes we are healed?

Matt 8:16That evening they brought to him many who were oppressed by demons, and he cast out the spirits with a word and healed all who were sick. 17This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah: “He took our illnesses and bore our diseases.”

Matthew is clear, the Scripture in Isaiah 53 reveals Jesus' ministry to cast out spirits and heal all who are sick. And Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, is fulfilling His ministry through us!

1 John 4:17 Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.

How did Jesus walk?

Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.

But does Jesus say we will do the works He did?

John 14:2 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.

In regards to the claim that Peter is only talking about "spiritual healing":

He walked with Jesus for 3.5 yrs saw many, many healings. In his own ministry he saw people getting healed from his shadow! He knew healing was available. When he said "by His stripes you were healed" he knew what people would believe, but he didn't feel any reason to say, oh wait this doesn't mean physical healing. He obviously wasn't too worried about people thinking healing was in the atonement.

In regards to healing being only for salvation:

This goes against James which promises healing to BELIEVERS. And Jesus (God in the flesh) actually healed more people than He forgave of sin.

In regards to Jesus only healing to make disciples and faith only "saving faith":

Jesus healed people even without asking them to be His disciples - so NO Scripture doesn't teach it was just for salvation purposes. And these people HAD faith because Jesus commended them for it! So faith is more than "saving faith".

In regards to Isaiah 53 not having HEALING in the Atonement:

Isaiah 53 reads: He has born our DISEASES and our ILLNESSES according to ESV and the next verse reads: By His Stripes you were healed. You have to not like what it says to not see the clarity of it.

Here's Isaiah 53 via Young's Literal Translation:

3He is despised and left of men, a man of pains and acquainted with sickness; And as one hiding the face from us, He is despised, and we esteemed him not. Sicknesses he hath borne, and our pains – lo, he has carried them; And we – we have esteemed him plagued, smitten of God, and afflicted.

4 Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, and our pains he hath carried them

5 And he is pierced for our transgressions. Bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace is on him. And by his bruise there is healing to us.

10a And Jehovah hath delighted to bruise him; He hath made him sick

The word translated sorrows in the KJV, NASB and NIV and translated pains in Young’s translation is holi in the Hebrew. (In the KJV, even with its prejudice against healing, holi is translated disease 7x; grief 4x; sickness 12x; be sick 1x.)The word which is translated grief(s), suffering and infirmities in our common English translations is makob. The word is used 16 times in the Old Testament, of which at least 11 have to do with mental suffering.

The word translated healed in verse 5 is rapha and is the standard word for healing. It is used over 60 times in the OT. The KJV translates it: cure 1x; heal 30x; make whole 1x; physician 5x; be healed 6x; be made whole 1x; cause to be healed 1x; heal 6x; repair 1x; be healed 1x; be healed 1x.

How does Scripture TRANSLATE IT?

Matt 8:16That evening they brought to him many who were oppressed by demons, and he cast out the spirits with a word and healed all who were sick. 17This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah: “He took our illnesses and bore our diseases.”

In regards to God not wanting all people healed:

JESUS HEALED EVERYONE. Even the ones the disciples COULDN'T heal!
He only did what He say His Father do.
Yet you say, today, He's just pickin' and choosin'.
Even though all through-out Scripture He says YOUR FAITH made you well.
Is Jesus the same today, yesterday, and forever or NOT?
He NEVER said it wasn't God's will for people to be healed.
But you say sometimes it's not? Was He God in the flesh or what?

Now you can address my question:

My question to you is simple: Does Scripture indicate that people were healed by FAITH, yes or no?
And if yes, what Scripture supports its changed?

C.

Angela53510 · Dec 5, 2016

I'm going to repeat part of my OP for the third or 4th time, refuting what you have written above. Then I will reexplain it at the bottom in the most simple, non opinion, exegetical terms possible.

"It is also questionable whether one can rightly argue that the Bible teaches that healing is provided for in the atonement. Historic Pentecostalism does not see healing provided for in the atonement the same way as salvation. Healing is "provided for" because the "atonement brought release from the consequences of sin;" nevertheless, since "we have not yet received the redemption of our bodies" suffering and death are still our lot until the resurrection.

"Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all." Isa. 53:4-6

While there are many texts that show that our sin has been overcome by Christ's death and resurrection, there is in fact no text that that explicitly says the same thing about healing, not even Isaiah 53 and its NT citations.

Matthew's use of Isa. 53:4 does not even refer to the cross, rather the clearly sees the text being fulfilled in Jesus earthly ministry. This is made certain by both the context and by his choice of Greek verbs in his own unique translation of the Hebrew (ἔλαβεν or elaben = he took; ἐβάστασεν or ebastasen = he removed.)

"ὅπως πληρωθῇ τὸ ῥηθὲν διὰ Ἠσαΐου τοῦ προφήτου λέγοντος· Αὐτὸς τὰς ἀσθενείας ἡμῶν ἔλαβεν καὶ τὰς νόσους ἐβάστασεν." Matt 8:17 Greek

"This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah: “He took our illnesses and bore our diseases.” Matt 8:17 ESV

The citation of Isa. 53:5 in 1 Peter 2:24 on the other hand, does not refer to physical healing. The usage here is metaphorical, pure and simple! In context, in which slaves are urged to submit to their evil masters - even if it means suffering for it - Peter appeals to the example of Christ, which Christians slaves are to follow.

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed." 1 Peter 2:24 ESV

This appeal to Christ, beginning at verse 21, is filling with allusions and to citations of Isa. 53 all of which refers to Christ's having suffered unjustly as the source of the slave's redemption from sin. Thus Peter says:

"He himself bore our wounds" (Isa. 53:12) "that we might die to sin."

"By his wounds you have been healed" (Isa. 53:5) FOR you were as sheep going astray. (Isa. 53:6)

The allusions to both verses 5 and 6, joined by FOR (coordinate Conjunction) and referring to "sheep going astray" plus the change to the past tense, all make it abundantly clear that "healing" here is a metaphor for being restored to health from "the sickness of their sins!"

Such a metaphorical use would be natural for Peter, since sin as "wound" "injury" or "sickness" and the "healing" or such "sickness" are thorough going images in the Old Testament. See 2 Chron. 7:14; Psalm 6:2; Isaiah 1:5-6; Jerem. 30:12-13, 52:8-9; Nahum 3:19)

Furthermore , the Old Testament citations in 1 Peter rather closely follow the Septuagint (LXX or Greek translation of the OT) even when this translation differed from the Hebrew; and the Septuagint had ALREADY translated Isa. 53:4 metaphorically!

"He himself bore our sins" rather than "our sicknesses." I am sure Peter knew both versions and chose the LXX because he knew it was a better version for NT believers and their understanding of Isa. 53:4.

So my point!

Matt clearly saw Isa. 53:4 as referring to physical healing, but as a part of the Messiah's ministry, not the atonement. Peter, conversely, saw the "healing" in Isa. 53 as being metaphorical and thus referring to the healing of our sin sickness. Neither NT reference to healing sees the "healing" in Isa. 53 as referring to physical healing in the atonement.

But what did Isaiah himself intend??

The first reference is certainly metaphorical as the Septuagint, the Targums and Peter recognize. Israel was diseased! She was grievously wounded for her sins (Isa 1:6-7) Yet God would restore his people. There would come one who himself would suffer so as to deliver. Isaiah says of the Messiah "The punishment that brought us peace was upon him and by his wounds we are healed." Since physical disease was clearly recognized as a consequence of the Fall, such a metaphor could also pick up the literal sense and that is what Matthew picked up on.

The Bible therefore does, not explicitly teach that healing is provided for in the atonement. However, the NT does see the cross as the focus of God's redemptive activity.

Physical healing is NOT part of the atonement. The argument for perfect health, or healing on demand, lies in the joining of healing to the atonement as the basis for demand, and therefore if God has provided for it, he must therefore heal on demand.

Since in fact, there is no connection of the atonement to healing, God is not obligated to provide healing on demand, although I do believe he heals when people pray and it is His will to heal, that he might be glorified."

Angela53510 · Dec 5, 2016

Look at the context of Isa. 53:5-6 (And do not leave off verse 6, because it is important in context!) It is about SIN!! Not about healing. Even the Septuagint acknowledges that. Israel was sin sick and needed "healing!" Healing from what? Let's look at the verses again.

"But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all." Isa. 53:5-6

Let's see the main words:

transgressions
iniquities
chastisement
gone astray
turned our own way
the iniquity of us all.

These words are all about sin - rebellion, iniquity. You can't just pluck out the 4th line and claim it is about healing, when all the surrounding verses, in fact all of Isa. 53 is about sin, and the Messiah and the atonement saving us from our sins.

There there is the 1 Peter passage, which quotes it.

""He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed." 1 Peter 2:24 ESV"

Notice the words in the first part of the sentence have to do with the last part of the verse.

bore our sins
die to sin
live to righteousness.

So what are we healed from?? From sin and unrighteousness. There is absolutely nothing to do in context with physical healing, in either Isa. 53:5-6 or 1 Peter 2:24.

Try reading the verses for what they are saying, not the lies you have been fed by the Word Faith movement!!

In fact, if you read Isa. 53 and those verses in context, here are the verses that finish that chapter on the suffering Messiah. What are they about?

They are about salvation from sin and evil!

"Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors." Isa. 53:10-12

Read all of Isaiah 53, and realize it goes together. One part of one line, talking about healing, in the context of talking about healing of our spiritual sins, means those "wounds" are sin and death. Not my metaphor, but Isaiah's.

And if you really want to know what the word WOUND means to Isaiah, then read the whole book of Isaiah. Because the opening chapter explains this prophecy is to a "diseased" (spiritually) and unrighteous and sinful Israel.

"1 The vision concerning Judah and Jerusalem that Isaiah son of Amoz saw during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

2 Hear me, you heavens! Listen, earth!For the Lord has spoken:
“I reared children and brought them up,
but they have rebelled against me.
3 The ox knows its master,
the donkey its owner’s manger,
but Israel does not know,
my people do not understand.”

4 Woe to the sinful nation,
a people whose guilt is great,
a brood of evildoers,
children given to corruption!
They have forsaken the Lord;
they have spurned the Holy One of Israel
and turned their backs on him.

5 Why should you be beaten anymore?
Why do you persist in rebellion?
Your whole head is injured,
your whole heart afflicted.
6 From the sole of your foot to the top of your head
there is no soundness—
only wounds and welts
and open sores,
not cleansed or bandaged
or soothed with olive oil." Isa. 1;1-6

The entire prophecy is to Israel, so that they will hear about the Messiah, who will heal their diseased and sin sick land. Note verses 1 and 3! To Judah, Jerusalem, and in verse 3 - Israel.

Do not make this prophecy about yourself, unless you take it in context.

What does God call Israel? A SINFUL NATION! He is talking about the wounds of Israel spiritually. This is Isaiah, not me, not my opinion.

Last part of verse 5 says,

"Your whole head is injured,
your whole heart afflicted."

Notice that the metaphor of an injured head - or our thoughts is intricately linked to the WHOLE HEART BEING AFFLICTED!

Why are they affected?

Because they are a people:

laden with iniquity
offspring of evil doers
children who deal corruptly
forsake the Lord
despised the Holy One of Israel
utterly estranged Verse 4
This is what context is all about!! What was Isaiah's message?

"And he said, “Go, and say to this people:“‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’
10 Make the heart of this people dull,
and their ears heavy,
and blind their eyes;
lest they see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”
11 Then I said, “How long, O Lord?” Isa. 6:9-11

Israel would not and could not listen, but God warned them anyway. And he gave hope, in the future suffering servant, the Messiah, who would heal the "wounds" of sin sickness. That is the prophecy in Isa. 53, connected to Isaiah 1.

Why? Why did the Father have to send his Son? To physically heal us? Not there in any way, shape of form! He sent his Son to suffer and die because we were diseased from sin and evil.

"Why will you still be struck down?
Why will you continue to rebel?
The whole head is sick,
and the whole heart faint.
6 From the sole of the foot even to the head,
there is no soundness in it,
but bruises and sores
and raw wounds;
they are not pressed out or bound up
or softened with oil." Isa. 1:5-6

Those wounds in Isa. 53, are in context with words about sin and transgression. There is not a single word there about physical healing, although certainly, part of the Messiah's ministry was to heal us from our sin, and physical healing was part of Jesus earthly ministry.

Wounds - sin, iniquity, unrighteousness, evil, corruption, forsaking God, get it??

"Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin," Isa. 53:10

See - The end of Isaiah 53 makes it clear - The suffering servant makes his life an offering for SIN!

Another reason why both WoF and Hypergrace are such dangerous heresies. They take the Biblical definitions and the purpose Christ came to die and twist them beyond recognition from what the Bible says

"She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”" Matt 1:21

PS. Please post all your verses in RED. Then you will see how you basically just pull part of a verse or a verse out of context. I want long red passages, and a thorough analysis of the words. I pray you will do this, so you can understand the context of all of Isaiah and specifically Isa. 53. A prophet, like the other prophets, who prophesy against Israel because of her sins. And Isa. 53 is the hope that a Saviour will come and save the people from their sins.

My challenge to all is that you read Isaiah and all the Old Testament prophets, and then you will understand the message of the Bible. That we are a sinful and evil people, and Jesus came to save us from our sins and make us righteous.

trofimus · Dec 5, 2016

stonesoffire said:

If it is true, thanks God for it. I will watch it later.

Most of people are not healed, though. So the WoF doctrine does not work.

trofimus · Dec 5, 2016

I have watched the video.

Again, lack of any medical proof what actually was the problem with the child.

Mother chewing chewing gum like she would be in a shop.

Hysterical dancing of all members after the baby awoke, crazy music.

Seems to me like a scam, sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KQ2NWKcD3s&feature=youtu.be

LaurenTM · Dec 5, 2016

Cee said:

Your words are basically: "Word of Faith" is a scam.
What this means from the continual arguments in this thread: The idea that you can agree with what God says to receive what He promises = scam.
That's what is being presented over and over.
And the basis for this statement? If God wanted me healed, I'd be healed, so obviously He must not want me healed.
This has been stated over and over in multiple ways.

BUT - The idea that you need faith to receive is repeated OVER and OVER in Scripture.
WoF is the study of what it looks like to have the "faith to receive".
It's not perfect, but the doctrine is based around the idea that Scripture teaches we need faith to receive God's promises.

Faith is not just for SALVATION.
Jesus says, over and over again, your faith has made you well. Not your faith has saved your soul. People teach that, but Scripture doesn't.

And to be perfectly blunt with you, when people say they believe in healing, but then continually look for reasons to disprove it, do they actually believe in healing? Or do they only believe in healing on "their terms"? I believe the latter. And as I addressed in my last post that's what Jesus would call unbelief. Looking at "personal experiences" to redefine God's promises.

And to say that God doesn't want people well, you'd have to completely throw out Scriptures like:
1. Jesus saying you will do the works I do.
2. James saying to get prayer of faith and you'll be made well.
3. John desiring people would be in good health even as their soul prospers. When someone says that today many call them a heretic.

Just to name a few off the top of my head.

You say: I base my arguments like Biblical fact. And you don't? If I didn't believe they were true I wouldn't share them now would I. And I have no problem discussing any and every point I make in my posts with Scripture. So, instead of making a "sweeping generalization" about me, feel free to address a point I made that you think is not Scriptural.

I've always been open to correction because I am a disciple. I am a learner. I seek to grow. Not to simply prove myself right. Can you say the same? If so, let's have a discussion, I'm fine with it.

C.

Cee, you probably will not receive this

but you have a COMPREHENSION problem

a big one

God bless...no use in responding to you since you seem to read in some garbled way that does not even come close to what others post

you have utterly...and I mean utterly...twisted what I wrote

you have a target in front of you and you go 180 the other way and go off on an emotional tangent

I would be ticked off at you by now, but I know you are not doing it on purpose...so, whatever the problem is, it IS your problem

LaurenTM · Dec 5, 2016

HisHolly said:

that's messed up

bad

you draw conclusions that are actually opinions

Jesus healed BEFORE the cross...you can read about healing throughout the OT

you people do NOT get it!!!!

LaurenTM · Dec 5, 2016

please show us where PHYSICAL healing is provided for in the atonement

for those who will actually HEAR...I present the following:

IF physical healing is in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, then why is not EVERYONE healed?

SALVATION IS provided for EVERY SINGLE PERSON who calls on the Name of the Lord

do you see the difference?

and again for those slow to listen and quick to argue...NO ONE IS SAYING GOD DOES NOT HEAL AND WE ARE NOT ARGUING AGAINST HEALING...SCRIPTURE TEACHES US TO PRAY FOR THE SICK AND WE DO

you cannot make scripture fit your pet doctrines and God does not heal everyone even though you think He should, because He NEVER NEVER said He would!

and into the morass of selfish splashing around in shallow water some of you go again...

you can have things explained to you over and over and over and you can read that WE do believe in healing over and over and over but we disagree with the WOF doctrine

but you will NOT accept that...you will twist what is said and that is exactly...EXACTLY what you do with the Bible and that is why you do not get the results you think are owed to you

and someone will only see 'owed to you' and jump on that and say you don't think God owes you but it is only through his grace

and now you will not do that because I said you would

what a merry go round...........

LaurenTM · Dec 5, 2016

JESUS HEALED EVERYONE. Even the ones the disciples COULDN'T heal!
He only did what He say His Father do.
Yet you say, today, He's just pickin' and choosin'.
Even though all through-out Scripture He says YOUR FAITH made you well.
Is Jesus the same today, yesterday, and forever or NOT?
He NEVER said it wasn't God's will for people to be healed.
But you say sometimes it's not? Was He God in the flesh or what?

are you Jesus?

can you save everyone who calls on your name?

COMPREHENSION!...get some!

garee · Dec 5, 2016

Big difference between spiritul life and death,( no spirit ).

Yes, no man can come unless the Father draws them .It’s by that authority of His drawing us as Christ in us that we can move as He does draw us and therefore having been turned toward Him we can call on Him

The resurrection was a parable used outwardly as the things seen that point to the unseen.(eternal)

The invisible workings of the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world(first six days) is the actual work not seen .
The flesh of the Son of man profited for nothing. Clearly that seen (the Son of man) was the temporal. The flesh died when the Holy Spirit returned to the Father.

We no longer know Christ after the flesh as if God was a man as us to begin with .He remains without mother or father beginning of days or end of Spirit life. God is supernatural, (without nature ) a beginning.

2Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

The one time demonstration is over. Christ who cannot die gave His Spirit life in jeopardy of His own Spirit . The death of the body and departure of the Spirit shows the life of the Spirit of Christ, the unseen , was given.

We walk by faith and not by sight.

wanderer6059 · Dec 5, 2016

Angela53510 said:

Jesus Heals at Peter's House
14When Jesus arrived at Peter’s house, He saw Peter’s mother-in-law sick in bed with a fever. 15He touched her hand, and the fever left her, and she got up and began to serve them. 16When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to Jesus, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick.…

Ok, first looking at Matt 8:17 to see the fulfillment of Isa 53 we can all agree on that I hope but what I want to point out was the fact that it was fulfilled by a Physical healing, not spiritual. So I want to post a few other commentaries pointing to the face that the verse in context is referring to physical healing.
Matthew 8:17. rophetic citation, apposite, felicitous; setting Christ’s healing ministry in a true light; giving prominence not to the thaumaturgic but to the sympathetic aspect; from the Hebrew original, the Sept[53] making the text (Isaiah 53:4) refer to sin. The Hebrew refers to sicknesses and pains. It is useless to discuss the precise meaning of ἔλαβεν and ἐβάστασεν: took and bore, or took and bore away; subjective or objective? The evangelist would note, not merely that Jesus actually did remove diseases, but that He was minded to do so: such was His bent.
Matthew 8:17. Ὅπως πληρωθῇ, that it might be fulfilled) It behoved that the Physician of the soul should also remove bodily complaints from those who came in His way.[376] In this manner also, therefore, was fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah. Body and soul together form one man: the corrupting principle of both soul and body is one [namely sin]; one and the same aid was given to both by this great Physician, as the case required.—ἔλαβε, took) i.e. removed from us.

[376] And of whom the extraordinary numbers are from time to time noticed, Matthew 4:23; Matthew 9:35-36 (Luke 4:21), Matthew 12:15, Matthew 15:30, Matthew 21:14.

Now onto the quoted verse in 1 peter

1 Peter 2:24King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

I want to focus on the words here, and there meaning in Greek.

iaomai: to heal
Original Word: ἰάομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: iaomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ee-ah'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I heal
Definition: I heal, generally of the physical, sometimes of spiritual, disease.

dikaiosuné: righteousness, justice
Original Word: δικαιοσύνη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: dikaiosuné
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yos-oo'-nay)
Short Definition: justice, justness, righteousness
Definition: (usually if not always in a Jewish atmosphere), justice, justness, righteousness, righteousness of which God is the source or author, but practically: a divine righteousness.

HELPS Word-studies
1343 dikaiosýnē (from 1349 /díkē, "a judicial verdict") – properly, judicial approval (the verdict of approval); in the NT, the approval of God ("divine approval").
1343 /dikaiosýnē ("divine approval") is the regular NT term used for righteousness ("God's judicial approval"). 1343 /dikaiosýnē ("the approval of God") refers to what is deemed right by the Lord(after His examination), i.e. what is approved in His eyes.

Ok so the context or exegesis is that along with the promise of salvation, that there were physical real world benefits that were providing not just a spiritual revival to him, but a physical.
“the corrupting principle of both soul and body is one [namely sin]; one and the same aid was given to both by this great Physician, as the case required.—ἔλαβε, took) i.e. removed from us.”
The fact that we are three part being, a soul renewed by God, and a flesh that can be healed by God. “Body and soul together form one man” the Lord redeemed us from our sins and sicknesses at the same time. Accordingly, if we believe that Christ redeemed us from our sins, we should believe that He redeemed us from our sicknesses also. If we cannot believe in both kinds of redemption, we must not believe in any kind of redemption, for Jesus carried away both! we are already healed. If we are sick it is because of a lack of the right kind of knowledge, which is a lack of a belief in an area because we know it not, or a outright rejection of the belief, constituting a lack of Faith.

Let me ask this question, if a prophecy is made of a redemptive work that includes spiritual and physical healing.

Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to heal
NASB Word Usage
become fresh (3), completely healed (1), heal (24), healed (22), healer (1), healing (2), heals (3), physician (1), physicians (4), purified (2), reappeared (1), repaired (2), take care
and is fulfilled by a physical healing,

15He touched her hand, and the fever left her, and she got up and began to serve them.

And was mentioned in context again with both spiritual, and physical healing.
iaomai: to heal
Definition: I heal, generally of the physical, sometimes of spiritual, disease.

But here is more on how we are to we are healed both physically and spiritually.

The Prayer of Faith
…14Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick. The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail.…

In context it is speaking of both the physical and spiritual needs being met by Christ in the context of the previously mentioned verses.

15. and the prayer of faith shall save the sick] The context leaves no doubt that the primary thought is, as in our Lord’s words to men and women whom He healed, “Thy faith hath saved thee”—“thy faith hath made thee whole” (Matthew 9:22; Mark 5:34; Mark 10:52; Luke 7:50; Luke 8:48; Luke 17:19; Luke 18:42), that the sick man should in such a case “recover his bodily health.” The “prayer of faith” was indeed not limited to that recovery in its scope, but the answer to that prayer in its higher aims, is given separately afterwards in the promise of forgiveness. and the Lord shall raise him up] Here, as in James 5:14, we have to think of James as recognising not merely the power of God generally, but specifically that of the Lord Jesus, still working through His servants, as He worked personally on earth. So Peter said to Æneas, “Jesus Christ maketh thee whole” (Acts 9:34).
It is clear in the word that God, is still active in healing.

Acts 10:38King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]38 [/SUP]How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
The same Holy Ghost that was in Christ is active in us and in the world

The primary way a believer receives God's healing power is through faith in God's Word. Believers shouldn't require a sign or wonder to believe in God's healing power. Jesus got upset when people required signs and wonders from him to believe in his healing power [John 4:48, Luke 1:18-20]. He praised people who just received his healing power by faith [Matthew 8:10 and Luke 7:9].
If we would simple take his word and believe it true.

Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

LaurenTM

Guest

Poetic Member

Poetic Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

HisHolly

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

LaurenTM

Guest

LaurenTM

Guest

LaurenTM

Guest

LaurenTM

Guest

Banned

Senior Member